Me and Midlife Wife and Midlife

[CT1118]

Danke.

[Cld]

CT118,

I take my hat off to you for acknowledging that your childhood and your wife's had and is influencing your behavior constantly when it comes to relationships. I did learn it myself after meditating and thinking about it for a long time.
It's a like a machine takes over our bodies when we are under heavy stress and we make the same decisions that our fathers, if we are men, or our mothers, if we are women, made when we were little.
I wish I had parents that got along very well and that showed me how healthy relationships work, instead I had very litigious parents who never divorced as of today.
What can we do about it? Maybe the midlife crisis is not the problem, maybe it's the cure. Maybe separation is the cure, maybe divorce is the cure. By becoming individuals again we can see who is really the source of the problem, is it ourselves or is it our partner?
I think that people like us who came from troubled families should live separately, I think it's best because we need to heal from the wounds we received during our childhood and because we don't want to hurt our partner. I think that LAT (living apart together) is best for people who come from troubled families like you and I. This is what I would like to achieve with the mother of my children at some point, a loving relationship where each one of us has his own space and we live separately.

[CT1118]

By becoming individuals again we can see who is really the source of the problem, is it ourselves or is it our partner?

My behavior was most certainly part of the problem. Not the cause. And it did not cause her A, which on my worst days now I simply find annoying and on my best days i don't pay it attention. I am working on my problems in a new and permanent way and I am excited. I am watching her work on her problems in an old and temporary way and I am disappoint. I have left the light on...

I think that people like us who came from troubled families should live separately, I think it's best because we need to heal from the wounds we received during our childhood and because we don't want to hurt our partner. I think that LAT (living apart together) is best for people who come from troubled families like you and I. This is what I would like to achieve with the mother of my children at some point, a loving relationship where each one of us has his own space and we live separately.

Actually, if or when or if her and I find a way to be healthy and reconcile LAT is exactly what I would want. I am very familiar w/ that concept as it is what I had first proposed to her when we were discussing S and I did not fully appreciate the fullness of her current situation.

I have realized from the start of this stuff that I would use it to my advantage. Now I got my own apartment. I do not ever want to own a house again. It [censored] up time your time, it wastes money, it restricts mobility, and it abuses energy. All IMO of course.

[CT1118]

Ohhhhh commmeeee ooonnnnn! I used the word s u c k s legitimately in a sentence as if one were using a vacuum cleaner, not as if someone had something in their mouth. Wow, just wow.

[ericmsant2]

CT
Sorry for the hijack but before I respond to you I have a few responses to a few others.

J3B,

I have met Eric twice in my life and I can honestly say he is one of the best friends I have the honor of having.

Thanks man! Love ya too. By the way….it’s been a long day in the office, I think it’s a Laguvulin night.

Ginger1,

Eric is a close friend, and a big brother to me.

Chit, now I’m gonna cry.

Wonka,

How's your Latin life? Hot n' spicy?!

(CT, yeah...Eric has a double life as a hot Latin guy in a pink tutu. He just left the asylum)

I wouldn’t say HOT n Spicy..I would say OLD and tired. LOL. On a serious note, life is good. Had several nice vacations (China Lake Maine, Greenville South Carolina, Colorado and next up Otterbanks). Oh, I traded the pink tutu for a lilac one. Lilac is in style now. 

Cat,

The only help I had were two other boneheads

I’ve notice a pattern with the use of the word “bonehead”. Can you describe to me what a “bonehead” is? Hehehehe

Sorry again for the hijack CT,

Ok, I am ready to begin Eric. Very impressed with what others have said of you. I am going to do my best,

So get out the shovel cause you will be digging. As for what the others said, they are my friends, they have seen me through some very tough times. Honestly, I am just regular guy who finally decided to do the hard work and face some my own demons. As for doing your best…that is all you can ever do and really all you should ever expect from yourself. “Your best”. The trick IMO, is to learn how to NOT lie to YOURSELF. Once you get to a place where you can be honest with yourself – thing start to fall into place. You may not always like the answer you give yourself and the answer the questions you probably have, are really inside of YOU.

Make this about YOU, make this process about YOU and regardless of the outcome – You’ll be a winner!

Why did I accept the role of knight? Honestly, I never felt like I did. Looking back, I still do not feel like I did.

Have you ever gotten into trouble when you were a kid? Have your parents ever let you fall and learn from your mistakes? Read your post. What is apparent is that whenever your W falls or gets into some chit, you are called. Her mother even wanted you to fix stuff for her. Right now, is the time for YOU to give her the space to work on her chit, if she can. I suspect that your afraid that you may loose her. That she may find (rather jump) to the next guy. Here is the thing…You and only YOU can change the pattern for YOUR life.

Why did I think some of these behaviors were healthy? I do not recall stating that I did. I can say that while I did not think behavior was healthy, I also did not think it was unhealthy; in other words, I did not think about mental health until I began with an IC in Feb 2016.

A very wise women (named URWorthy) once said something to me that finally clicked…… as people we do what we saw or were taught to do. As you mentioned you did not think it the behavior was unhealthy – in part, because I think you never knew what healthy was. Brother, what you had was NOT healthy. Think about it….. you both cheated on your respective partners with each other. Now that it is being done to YOU, how do you feel? Like chit I assume. Cheating to be with each other (several times) is NOT healthy. Then again, if you are an open relationship – I is. I doubt you guys have an open relationship.

You said it - did not know what healthy was, and you don't know what you don't know.

Yep…and now that YOU know better YOU can do better. Remember this, burn it in your mind so IF the opportunity appears again, that you do not repeat the pattern.

- What does love mean to me? May not be the most pragmatic of answers, but Hesse is my favorite author: “One must find the source within one's own Self, one must possess it. Everything else was seeking -- a detour, an error.”

Look at what Hesse wrote…. “within one’s own self – one must posses it”. Think about that….

You really need to love yourself FIRST before you can love another. Are the actions that YOU have done over your life a reflection of how YOU love YOURSELF? Can you look in the mirror and say with full conviction that YOU LOVE YOURSELF? If not, then 1) you have work to do and 2) how could you love your W. That said, how can YOU love yourself? What do YOU NEED to FEEL loved (sex with your W is not the answer)? FTR, every person is different and honestly, I did not know the answer to these questions UNTIL I was 41 years old. I did not have good role models, no one really taught me. I did the best I could with what I knew at the time. I now know better so I do better. Doing nothing was EASY. Doing the work is HARD. This chit is not going to come overnight man.

-What does love look like to me? Like the water in a river. Deep and shallow, turbulent and calm, narrow and wide, moving around rocks, moving over sand, transporting objects, flowing and frozen, dynamic and static, able to dry out of existence and able to return.

Okay..honestly, what book did you take this out of? Or did you pull it off the web? Hey it sound great and sexy but is that what love really looks like to you? I have a funny feeling that love looks a little different than the above. For example, one way I see love is when someone is compassionate towards me. Another way is in how they treat me, how they give me the space I need to be me, how they ACCEPT me for me. Another is seeing Mach1 in a pink tutu – now that is love (psst…don’t tell him I emailed you the pictures). LOL on a serious note, take some more time, think of ACTIONS that you would consider love.

- How do I give love? Dmn these are simple questions, but challenging. I am introverted and have type II ADHD, but I am working on overcoming the detrimental pieces of each. The expression of emotion does not come easy for me. I try to respect, to understand, to show compassion, to express, to be silent, to allow, to forgive, to understand. But when I truly love someone, I am able to give of myself entire and so few have ever gotten that from me.

Being an introvert of having ADHD IMO, does not impact how you give love. Once again, think of your responses in the form of ACTIONS. Let’s say you were dating J3B and you loved him, how would you show him. Say you and I are friends, how would you show me that you loved me. Here is a simple example: I was not always the greatest friend, I would not really show my friends how much I loved them. Now, I do things like make sure I call every so often, I will make arrangements to meet for dinner, I make them a priority. So, can you take another crack at answering the question?

- Yes, were both kids when we met and true, we did not know who we were.

Think about this ^^^^^ , so do you think your W is going to figure out who she is and become healthy overnight? I think you know the answer to that question. The bigger question is what are YOU going to do about it? Are you going to sit still and just wait for her to come back OR are you going to lead by example and 1) fix your chit 2) become the best man you can be 3) respect her and her choices while living YOUR life.

- I am not so sure I can give you her dumping me at 19/20 years old as an early sign of much. In hindsight and context of the story, it appears clear. But if women dumped men with explanation on the regular the whole "its not you, its me" thing wouldn't be a thing. She was not the first or the last to do that to me around that age, as is the case with many young people.

You may be right; however, I would like to point one thing out – noticed how you sometime DEFEND her? Why is that? Psst…read the CODEPENDANT NO MORE book. I remember defending my ex. I remember explaining to everyone that it was MY FAULT that she was out polishing some dude knob. The reality: I played a role in the demise of my M as did she. That said, I will not OWN her CHOICES. I may be wrong buddy…but I want you to think about how often you DEFEND her CHOICES – why is that?

- Why did I cheat on others with her? Because I was in love with her, because I was not in love with the others, and the bottom line mostly is because I was not a good person at that time in my life.

So that’s it? You just were not a good person at that time? I think the reason is bigger than that. Just think about it.

- Have I read on co-dependency? I did read some websites, some psych journal articles, but no books. I am interested in the book you offer. However, and with due respect, I will have to wait a few months to buy. I just spent $400.00 on my graduate texts today - that hurt.

Check Youtube, they may have clips of the book. Alternatively, I will purchase it for you as a gift (and I am not kidding). So mods, if there is a way for me to do that, please let me know how i.e. CADET, let me know how.

Because we both have always been in love with each other, but neither of us never really understood or knew how to love in a way which was healthy.

So is unhealthy love, really love? Here is an example: If I came home every day and slapped my wife (we know that is not healthy) is that really love. My other point, is how can you really “love” if you are not sure what it really is. IMO, we base “love” on just how we “feel”. Love is really actions.

Because we both grew up thinking we were incapable of loving others. Because we both could not escape the spectre of our adverse childhood experiences. Because we both have trust issues. Because we both are selfish. Because we both believe at our cores we are good people but have not learned how to stop hurting others. Because we both lacked self control.

First thing first….notice in your post how you use “we”. Look at the context in which you are responding – in a small way you are defending or explaining HOW she feels or felt. This is not about HER right now, it is about YOU. You really do not KNOW HOW SHE FEELS. You may think you do and in some cases you may be correct; however, you really do not KNOW FOR SURE SINCE YOU ARE NOT HER.
Stop making this about HER!

FTR, I did the same towards my ex. I explained how she felt, I explained why she did x or y. honestly, that was a guess. It also showed me a pattern that needed to change. I needed to stop thinking or ASSUMING for my ex and anyone else for the matter. I needed to start OWNING my CHIT.

- I never knew what boundaries were until I came here on 07.05.16, since I have read a whole lot on them.

I am glad you now know about boundaries. Please do not make the same mistake I made for a loooooonnnggg time. I think J3B put it best….

You can use boundaries as a SWORD or SHIELD.

I recommend that you use them as a SHIELD.

Here is an example:
Example 1: Your son is rushed to the hospital. You DO NOT CALL HER since you know she is with OM. Your excuse is that YOUR BOUNDARY was no contact.
Example 2: She is charging up the joint credit cards to the point of maxing them out. Your boundary conversation with her is that if she continues to use the charge cards you will have her name removed from the card. Next day, she goes out and buys a boat on your Amex. You call Amex and have her removed from the account.

Example 1 is a sword, example 2 is a shield.

Takes a long time for me to read a book.

Try Audiobooks. They work pretty good for me.

Batman also had some significant R issues as I recall.

He’s Batman though so it is okay. LOL.

Oh and btw, if you wanted a quick summary of me……
The quick answer is look in the mirror. I was just like you. A bit more detail.

1) In and out of group homes as a kid
2) Dad left 20 bucks on the table when I was born. I actually still have no idea who he really is.
3) Mom married 5 or 6 times (I lost count)
4) My dad is supposedly my aunt (my mom's sister) boyfriend at the time – yet no one really knows for sure. Hey just imagine what those family christmas look like.
5) Lock up – did crimes, shot people
6) Drug addict
7) Control freak
8) Did now know what the hell love was let alone a healthy R.
9) 3 kids
10) Ex “love of my life” that popped up. Thank God I ended it!
11) Fairly successful professionally, which helped me never deal with chit.
12) And yeah...I too wanted my ex to hurry the F up with her MLC, I mean chit she did deal with my issues for a while, least I could do was give her a month or two.

So I’ll close with this….. Hi my name is Eric, I am a former control freak, drug addict, who needed to learn how to be man. Nice to meet ya.

I’ll say it again…..YOU and YOU ALONE DECIDE WHO YOU WANT TO BE.

I hope this helps brother. I’ll check on you tomorrow.

God Bless,
Eric

[job]

Eric,

That was an outstanding posting.

CT,

J3B, Mach, Eric, Cadet and all of the other posters that have been posting to you came along after I was here for a while. I can honestly say that they all have grown by leaps and bounds. Why? Because they posted, they listened (at times didn't want to hear what was said), they did the hard, necessary work to work on themselves. It took a while because we all come here trying to find the magic potion to bring our spouses back...but at the end of the day, we come to realize that we can only work on ourselves. We finally figure out that some of us are controllers, co-dependents, etc., and the biggest culprit...we are fixers. We want to fix our spouses. Unfortunately, we can't.

Take time and truly listen to what the posters are saying. If it helps, print off the postings and read and re-read them again and again. Make your journey about YOU! I know you can do it! Leave your wife to her own journey and if she hits the brick wall a thousand times over, don't rescue her. She needs to learn the lessons w/o your help.

Hang in there!

[cat04]

Eric,

BUYING the book for him...while nice...is fixing...

Do we need a crash course?

CT,

You are in Grad school. You have access to a library...

Get the book...

[ericmsant2]

Good point Cat. Thanks for pointing that out.

[cat04]

Good point Cat. Thanks for pointing that out.

[CT1118]

Eric,

You have taken so much time on my posts and I cannot thank you enough. Also, I have no problem with the hijack - it actually makes me think (which is really an assumption) as if you came out of semi-retirement to respond to me (I base this off of some replies felt like a few had not had the chance to communicate w/ you in a bit. I sir, am honored.

I cannot reply to all, I tried and it was just going on and on...

There were a few points in there where I felt you were being quite dismissive, but I do believe this was not your intent. My definition of love was my own, I did not take it from a book r the internet. You ask a creative introverted mind a question like that, the answer you get may be abstract, but that does not make it less true for the respondent. Also, ADHD and introversion have ruined me, I have gone to great lengths to work beyond them in the past 6 months and am proud of the progress. Rest assured though, this not only guides how I loved in the past, but how I am friends, how I am a son, how I am a father, how I am a leader, etc. But I am awake and it will be a challenge, sometimes minute by minute, but I refuse to let it govern my future.

You want to buy me that book. I do not know what to say. That is so incredibly kind and I have never been good at understanding where kindness comes from. If there is a way to contact me outside of here, I would prefer we begin with that. I have multiple emails which I almost never use, I would be fine posting one here that is nearly defunct for initial contact. That is an incredible offer you have made.

Love, healthy or otherwise, is love. To meet your example head on, my mother did slap me everyday, she still loved me, her love had nothing to do with the chaos in her mind which ruined her capacity for a healthy handling of her pain. So how can you "really love" if you don't know what love is? Love is intrinsic even if one does not understand the extrinsic part of it. Love is dynamic and not static. Love is a flow, like our very breath. The cause of something is rarely a single event, but more likely a series of events which leads to an event horizon.

Love is a colloquialism and germane to an individual, such as "I'm not a smart man, but I know what love is." And that line comes from one of the most dysfunctional and unhealthy love stories all times, yet it kicked America's heart in the throat because of it's purity. I am not saying I identify with this as an example of me, but I am using it to provide a digestible alternative to your theory.

Hi Eric, my name is CT1118, I am a recovering narcotics addict with multiple learning disabilities who needed to learn how to be a man. And I happy we can be friends. And I really and truly appreciate what you are doing to help me. And, that was all a story of my past, I am detached - but only at the beginning of that detachment.

PS - Here is another understanding of love, I think you will recognize it... "I don't, I don't want to kill you! What would I do without you? Go back to ripping off mob dealers? No, no, NO! No. You... you... complete me."