Believe me, she hasn't. <snip> This is actually a dangerous pattern for you to begin for you. It won't allow you to truely detatch...
I rarely post links...
<snip> For me, initially it was a very sad/happy song of reconciliation. As I thought about the lyrics and the story...it became a perfect example of detatchment, loving from afar, living life, and moving forward while keeping the door open. All these years later, it is a lesson in faith and reminder of where I came from.
When I was in the trenches...a lot of people who were here (especially the men) seemed to think that they had to stop loving their spouse if the relationship was over. That isn't the case. When someone dies do you stop loving them? It just becomes a private feeling that you keep in your heart.
Cat
Thanks Cat. I'm a country music fan and have gotten weepy listening to that song more than once.
Your last point resonates with me and ties to the work my IC is doing with me right now. I certainly do still love my W although I do from time to time have to remind myself of it. It has been over 4 months since BD2 when she withdrew pretty much all affection from me and the real hurting and pain started. The arrogance and contempt she would show me for much of June cannot easily be forgotten. It helps a bit that it ended after BD2.1 when I asked her to reconcile. I know that I can forgive the A and forgive the hurt and betrayal if she comes back and tries to make amends (I know I'll have a lot of work to do too). However if she starts a new life alone or with OM or OM2,3,x etc I worry that all that will be left will be the anger and betrayal. I know she was surprised when I told her on move-out night when we had one of our few talks that I didn't think that we could be civil to each other in a social situation if she didn't come back.
One fact that I pay too much attention to is that the clock is ticking for her. She has to make a choice on where she's going to be living by the end of September when she has to move out of where she is. She may be pushing herself to make a choice by that date (or may not - can't know). I know that when October 1st rolls around that all I can do is to flip over the calendar page. If she chooses OM then I'll file for D and try to move on. I won't stand waiting for her if she has clearly chosen someone else. I will set her and myself "free". If she chooses to be alone then as someone earlier (jack3b I think it was) said that I just need to take it one day at a time.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
The arrogance and contempt she would show me for much of June cannot easily be forgotten.
Maybe not forgotten but it can be forgiven. The later being the hardest part.
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I know that I can forgive the A and forgive the hurt and betrayal if she comes back and tries to make amends (I know I'll have a lot of work to do too).
So YOUR forgiveness is contingent on HER action. It is conditional. So IF she does THIS then I can do THAT. Hmmm….see anything wrong with this point of view? Is that who YOU want to be? Is that how YOU would like someone to treat YOU?
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However if she starts a new life alone or with OM or OM2,3,x etc I worry that all that will be left will be the anger and betrayal.
Life is really about CHOICES. You can CHOOSE to stay angry and bitter OR you can CHOOSE NOT TO. I noticed you used the word “worry” again. DO you notice how you use it? Can you see what and how this “worry” is driving YOUR CHOICES.
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I know she was surprised when I told her on move-out night when we had one of our few talks that I didn't think that we could be civil to each other in a social situation if she didn't come back.
Actions speak louder than words. Have you been civil to her since? If so, then honestly, your actions are doing all the talking and that is a good thing.
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One fact that I pay too much attention to is that the clock is ticking for her. She has to make a choice on where she's going to be living by the end of September when she has to move out of where she is. She may be pushing herself to make a choice by that date (or may not - can't know). I know that when October 1st rolls around that all I can do is to flip over the calendar page. If she chooses OM then I'll file for D and try to move on. I won't stand waiting for her if she has clearly chosen someone else. I will set her and myself "free". If she chooses to be alone then as someone earlier (jack3b I think it was) said that I just need to take it one day at a time.
Far be it from me to tell anyone to file or not. It is a personal decision. That said, what do you really gain by filing? You may have mentioned this in a previous post, so I am sorry if you answered this and I just did not see it.
When I was dealing with my sitch….I felt that “filing” would make me “free”. It will allow me to “heal”. It would fix the issues. I could move on. Deep down inside…I also wanted to “show her”….to tell her that “I was done”…deep down inside I wanted to file to manipulate her into coming back.
What I learned….was that healing and freedom are separate and distinct some times. What I learned was…the best thing I did was to trust the process. To give it my all. I learned to understand WHY I felt the need to control. Why I felt the need to manipulate. I will leave you with this Andrew…….
Standing for your M is really for YOU – not HER.
God Bless, Eric
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
Yes - I've been civil to her all along. It's something that I've been very proud of that I've treated her with respect and courtesy. From things she's said that if the situation was reversed she would have handled things very differently and in the "classic" manner complete with trashed car and belongings on the lawn. Not sure how she'd feel now but it isn't (likely) going to happen. I "am" feeling very lonely today.
Forgiveness is something that I struggle with. I have given her forgiveness once already about a week after BD2. So much has happened since then that I would have to reach deep to find that on my own without her help. Even though I'm nominally Christian I don't believe that forgiveness is required in all situations. I do know that it frees me and is a gift that I would give to myself but I haven't found it at this point.
I took a minor detour about forgiveness before coming back to the "civil" question. I worry (yes that word again) about how my feelings will change as this comes to a conclusion. It feels like this will never end but I do know that in some way, some day that this chapter will be closed. If it closes in anger with her treating me badly - taking me for everything she can in a settlement, acting with arrogance and contempt then no - I do not see myself being civil to her in the future. We'll have to wait for those pages of the chapter to be written. One thing that I'm trying to stop is scripting out the future.
In my note about filing, right now the only reason I would file would be if she chooses a definite path away from me such as marrying OM. I have no clue what the intentions are there though since other than BD2 when I asked if it was serious between them and she said that it was for him but that she was unsure I know nothing. I would also file if I have moved on.
One of my bigger challenges right now is keeping up the pretense of being married. Having not even taken the first step of publicly stating that I am separated, D is much farther down the road.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
I am sorry to hear that. The lonely feelings will come….in time they will get better and farther apart. I found that when I was feeling really lonely, that it was my “spirit” telling me that I needed to get out and do something. As hard as it was, especially in the beginning, I did. Going out (aka GAL) helped. Helped me keep my sanity.
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Forgiveness is something that I struggle with.
And why is that?
Ya know, early on when I going through this wonderful experience we call MLC <insert picture of Eric with a sarcastic smile>, I would spend hours thinking about what my ex was doing TO ME. DB101 – “Change how you look at things”
When I reframed how I was looking at thing it got much better. Example: My ex wasn’t doing it TO ME, she was doing some to/for herself that impacted me.
When I reframed I realized that I no longer felt like a victim. I can to realized that I was CHOOSING to stay in the sitch. I CHOOSE to STAND – not for her – for me. Yep, a selfish move on my part. I wanted ONE thing, I promised myself ONE thing – DO THE BEST I CAN SO THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY, I COULD LOOK IN THE MIRROR AND KNOW – I GAVE IT MY ALL. I had never done that before, I had never given it everything I had and I finally acknowledged that 1) I DESERVED IT 2) THAT SHE TOO DESERVED IT.
Change how you look at things and maybe…..forgiveness will become easier.
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I worry (yes that word again) about how my feelings will change as this comes to a conclusion.
Question: What are the powerball numbers going to be next week?
Another question: What is the temperature going to be in Denver on 9/4/2045?
Before you tell me that I must be a nut…..I’ll explain my point….
DB101 – LIVE IN THE MOMENT. Stop “worrying” about how you are going to feel tomorrow, next week, chit 5 months from now. YOU have no control over it. You have no idea. Ya really don’t.
People are funny….we project…in part, because we want to control. We want certainty. We FEAR what we cannot control. Guess what? Learning to face that fear and ACCEPT that you have no idea how you are going to feel or what is going to happen next week – that is freedom.
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In my note about filing, right now the only reason I would file would be if she chooses a definite path away from me such as marrying OM.
As Jack mentioned in another post….YOU SAY WHEN THIS IS OVER.
If I told you to marry me and for some reason you did not want to marry me (not sure why, as I am good looking dude. LOL just kidding)….. why would YOU FILE if that is not what YOU want? Allow her to own her choices. If she wants to file, when then go ahead she can.
DO what YOU want to do.
That said, if you need to file to protect yourself….please do so – but own it.
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One of my bigger challenges right now is keeping up the pretense of being married. Having not even taken the first step of publicly stating that I am separated,
Why is this really a challenge? A simple, “we are working through some things and I would prefer not to talk about it” should suffice. Honestly, it really is no ones freaking business. Learn boundaries man. If YOU do not want to talk about – don’t.
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
a know, early on when I going through this wonderful experience we call MLC <insert picture of Eric with a sarcastic smile>, I would spend hours thinking about what my ex was doing TO ME. DB101 – “Change how you look at things”
When I reframed how I was looking at thing it got much better. Example: My ex wasn’t doing it TO ME, she was doing some to/for herself that impacted me.
When I reframed I realized that I no longer felt like a victim. I can to realized that I was CHOOSING to stay in the sitch. I CHOOSE to STAND – not for her – for me. Yep, a selfish move on my part. I wanted ONE thing, I promised myself ONE thing – DO THE BEST I CAN SO THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY, I COULD LOOK IN THE MIRROR AND KNOW – I GAVE IT MY ALL. I had never done that before, I had never given it everything I had and I finally acknowledged that 1) I DESERVED IT 2) THAT SHE TOO DESERVED IT.
Please re-read that, print it out and put it in your wallet. Read it often. We are men, this is what men of value do. This is what of character do. This is what we aspire to.
To stand on that wall, no matter what comes, and fight for what we value, to spit in the eye of anything that comes between us and our goal.
We are men, and we don't run.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Thanks eric and Jack. That last line means the most to me and describes the key reason I have most days for why I'm standing. I don't know if you recall my earlier post where I mentioned my hero Don Quixote who does what he thinks is the right thing even when the rest of the world considers him mad. It took me about 3 years to read the two volumes of his histories (mainly only read on vacation) and I don't recommend it to anyone who is not patient but it reinforced my beliefs in duty, honour and pride. Some days I have no idea at all why I'm putting myself through this. One good thing I believe is that I recognized a long time ago that this is a choice "I" made even if that choice was to let W control the agenda. The tools I have at my disposal that could affect anything are far to blunt to be used.
Originally Posted By: ericmsant2
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One of my bigger challenges right now is keeping up the pretense of being married. Having not even taken the first step of publicly stating that I am separated,
Why is this really a challenge? A simple, “we are working through some things and I would prefer not to talk about it” should suffice. Honestly, it really is no ones freaking business. Learn boundaries man. If YOU do not want to talk about – don’t.
The problem for me is that I "DO" desperately want to talk about it. But I "know" that as long as W is in hiding that me making any announcements about our status would be a very bad thing. I could (mind reading!) foresee that she would treat that as me trying to manipulate her and force her to make a choice even though it would in reality be all about me. I need to continue to be patient and let HER work through her own thoughts and issues without me adding on any further complications. I feel like I'm living a lie. Those (very) few people that I've talked to in the village (all 4 of them) know that we've split and that I'm devastated and nothing more. Even though I want to I know that reaching out to those friends of W's that she is still in contact with or her family would be a horrible idea. I still feel good about the email I sent her on Monday though where I reminded her that there is a path home if she chooses to take it. I also know that now that I've stated that that I need to go back to being silent no matter how much I want to reach out to her.
Minor update.
Today started off fairly well but for some reason through the day I'm just getting a "feeling" in the pit of my stomach that something's not right / I'm being watched. Yesterday I was also thinking of W's parents, both of whom are in poor health and what the "right" thing to do would be if something happened there. Probably the "right" answer is to express sympathy to her and offer to be there at the funeral if she wishes it. I believe that I am in the instructions as a pall-bearer. That's how I handled her nephew's wedding at the end of June where I stayed home and even though I told her I was upset and offended at her not including me in the RSVP that I wouldn't make a fuss and spoil their day. Meanwhile I'll just add a little prayer for them to continue with as good of health as they can.
Still complete silence from W. I was thinking to myself as I walked into work this morning that it was now September. BD1 was in March. There has been NO movement by W in any direction since 21-Jul when she moved out of our home. Realistically there's been no movement since the A started. She's just been circling around as far as I can tell not able to make any choices or decisions (mind reading!). There may not "be" any movement any time soon. Even today I've had to suppress the urge a few times to do things that would catch her attention or to lurk at her. She has replied to my texts about admin type things with a "thanks" but those are extremely rare as most things I just deal with. She has full visibility into our banking and our books and I know she at least looks at the books regularly (there's an audit file). She doesn't add any of her own transactions so the books are slowly going out of whack but that's not an issue worth pressing on.
I keep reading about others here who regularly hear from their W - mostly bile and spew and feel some envy for them. For me - the silence from 3 blocks away is deafening and maddening. I need to find a way to stop listening to it. W said she can only stay where she is until the end of September. I alternate between watching the calendar thinking that "any day now she'll make a choice" and thinking that she's in so deep that even then she won't be able to choose. Once September closes down then there will be a direction of some sort I hope but if not then the calendar page flips to October. Nothing is to be gained for "us" if I push on this closed box in any fashion. I just have to keep reminding myself of that.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
I keep reading about others here who regularly hear from their W - mostly bile and spew and feel some envy for them. For me - the silence from 3 blocks away is deafening and maddening.
And other envy you for the silence.
Shoes are funny things when they are other peoples.
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There has been NO movement by W in any direction since 21-Jul when she moved out of our home
A little over a month, not a really long time.
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She doesn't add any of her own transactions so the books are slowly going out of whack but that's not an issue worth pressing on.
Debateable. As this isn't an R talk, asking her to keep up the upkeep on the finances for her transactions is not a horrible idea.
Asking her if she loves you is...asking her to log her money in the joint account is not.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
I'm willing to be contradicted but I'm not too worried about the finances. Certainly not enough to cause W any stress. Partly on the advice of my lawyer I've left W with full access to the banking and our books. I'm reasonably (mind reading!) sure that she's watching everything I do like a hawk out of paranoia. While I have everything in place (and she knows) to run things out of my own account, I suspect that she does as well. We're like two dogs staring at each other over a bone that neither of us wants. To me, it's just money and not that important. The worst hurt she could do could be covered by a quick personal loan and I have alarms set on our accounts. No clue if she does or not herself but I've seen evidence of her checking our books shortly after I would do car repairs etc. She is very smart.
Perhaps I should have said "books" not "finances" which is a piece of software intended to help people budget better. In it we forecast out 1 month's expenses and income. She stopped updating any transactions from her personal account a couple of months before move-out. She had blocked my online access to her account about a month before that. I chose to not take notice. A few weeks before she moved out she made a point of announcing to me that she had everything up to date which I didn't really believe but again didn't make a fuss about checking and just thanked her.
In our budget I've left everything in place as if she's going to be using our joint accounts and then a couple of weeks after she doesn't do the transactions that are in the budget I just move the transactions to be under her personal account so that the account balance I see on our joint account isn't too far skewed.
W has historically been very bad about keeping our books up to date and has always been very protective and secretive about "her stuff". Pushing her to document her spending for her independent life would not be welcome at all I'm sure. She was raised to be very secretive about money and only really overcame that in recent years after we almost went bankrupt. She was very proud of how we worked together to rebuild our finances and credit and has bragged to many people about how we did it. She would even pull out the budgeting app we use and show people how it works.
Part of my "lighthouse" strategy is to continue to be reliable and open and worthy of trust despite her paranoia in this and a number of other things. Going back to a post I think by Jack on this thread there are things that she (mind reading) "wants" to believe about me and that she "wants" me to do "bad" things but I don't. That is in part why my letter got sent on Monday. The stack of boxes and changing our NetFlix account were maybe too big of a blow to trust and I wanted to reassure her. Being a "lighthouse" is relatively easy for because I've always been the honest, reliable safe harbour for our family.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
