Thanks Sandi. You are correct, other than having to deal with my anger a week ago there have been no consequences for her. I did tell her today that in no circumstance is OM going to be in my house or around my D. She laughed it off, said that it wasn't what I thought it was, and she not careless or stupid and would never put our D in that situation.
With us in the same house, I'm not fully sure how to force her into things. I don't let her disrespect me in front of D or in private without calling her out about it anymore. That's stopped most of the eye rolling and looks/exasperated sighs. I attempted to get her out of mbr but we ended up at each other's throats, with neither of us budging. Leaves us awkwardly sharing a bed again now. The only way I can see to force consequences on her is by telling her we need to sell the house and find separate living arrangements if she won't stop seeing OM. Then I tell her that custody is not the 90/10 split she envisions. That would be a bomb drop though, but maybe that's what we need. There's a rationale behind that in the below.
2 minute conversation turned into an hour. W went into how I hadn't been listening to her and D tonight. Also went into how D is hesitant to go with me bc she doesn't fully trust me. W tried to get me for not listening to her instructions on the inhaler, but I recited them back word for word. Got it, good to go...
After that, W started reading screen shots of conversations with one of her friends on Facebook. They discussed how unhappy she was going back to last August and how in April W started talking to friend about Divorce. Then W says May 6th to friend that D tells her she doesn't want me living in house anymore (W has been saying that happened early April to this point). W then goes into the timeline of OM and her starting to talk May 13, and how she wouldn't be stupid enough to throw away 11 yrs of M on him. Same story as previous conversations. Interesting this time that W would bring screenshots and tell me what dates they were from.
W went into how she'd sit in parking lots for years in her car crying bc she didn't want to come home to me. W tells me how I've crushed Ds trust. W uses an example of me eating one of Ds string cheeses and lying about it (don't remember, but I'm guilty of doing small stuff like this to avoid a blow up fight in the past....uggghhhh) to me having broken her trust, similar to how I felt about her having an affair with OM.
W goes into how I've never cared about her and D and I still do not. Says she would have stuck around another 10yrs had I not treated D so horribly. She says what she's done is really messed up and she didn't handle it appropriately. She says she hasn't had sex with OM and I can check her recent doctors visit if I don't believe her (Doctor apparently commented about her not having sex in a long time). But she says that what I've done by not caring about her and D is even worse. W asks why I would possibly want to try to fix the MR, again.
I tell her that I don't believe Divorce is the solution to our problems. She asks how we possibly fix our MR. I tell her it's through M counseling and us being forced to do a lot of hard work. She says she is willing to go to counseling to work on our communication skills but not our MR. She reiterates that she's not the type of person who would forgive me.
W reiterates that this was over long ago. W then asks if I agree that we are seperated. I tell her that she told me she wanted to seperated on 5/31 and then I repeat my mantra of "I don't believe divorce is the solution to our problems". She spins on this a few times asking how I could not think we are seperated and then tells me to take a few days to let it sink in and see if I had a different response. She then says that if I can't accept that, then we need to be in different places, with her taking D and she doesn't think that's fair to me. (This is where a consequence could come in)
W says she opened the CC so she could start building credit. She wants to put her phone on there and unlink our accounts. She also wants groceries and gas on there but will show me the bills. She does not want me to see her phone records. I didn't tell her that I don't care at this point. Maybe I tell her she needs to get a job to continue using her phone like she has. Unsure I can pay for her to talk to OM non stop.
I tell W that I do not want OM around our house or my D and she responds as I said earlier. She also says, "you're seeing someone to discuss all this weekly, right? I tell her yes and she says to talk through it with them. She finally must have seen the charges in our cc bill. Sounds like she's been snooping as well, though I never tried to hide my IC from her.
W gets angry and says to stop the conversation. I tell her we will talk when she's in a better place and she mumbles something about me coming back in a few days around my view on separation. She then says that if I don't care about them, then don't expect her to care about me. I said I never expected you to cheat on me and she looks at me and just shrugs her shoulders. Felt myself getting angry and so I left.
She sucked me in and I fell for it, though to a lesser extent than before. Started validating, but quickly got pulled into providing thoughts which seems to be her trap. She seems to be wanting back control and probably got some back with this discussion. Not going to let her roll the guilt she's feeling off on me though.
Tomorrow is Ds and my day. Not going to let W ruin that!
Thanks Sandi for the clarification! Will respond to everyone else later if that's ok. Appreciate your support!
Me39 M11 : T13 D9 BD 5/31/16 In House S until 6/21/17 Divorced 10/5/18
I know it is probably just because my sitch is different and my W had the strength I guess you would call it to do the right thing and move out when she decided she had enough of being married and wasn't in love with me.
I just do not know how anyone could stand sharing a house let alone a bed with a W that is seeing another man! I know it's easy for me to say because I didn't have to make that choice but i would like to think I would be telling her to move into another room at the very least. Sandi talks about our W's having no respect for us how much respect is a W going to have if she knows she can stay in the same bed as her H while she's seeing someone else. Makes me sick.
Anyway just my thoughts. And again easier said then done I'm not in his sitch.
ME- 31 W-25 T-5 M-3 D2 ILYBNILWY and moved out - FEB16 W seeing someone else - JUL16
W: "Just realized you came down and said that because you probably think OM is coming here tomorrow because you won't be here. Not the case. I would never do that. I'm not going anywhere either, you can check my phone. Haven't talked to him in a week, you can check that too. Please let D have a fun trip. She is really excited about this."
W went to bed at 4am again. It's dawning on me that maybe I need to let her know that custody will not be what she thinks it will be. Her parting thoughts last night were for me to take a few days to think about if I understand that we are seperated and if I can't understand that we need to physically split where we live. W notated, of course, that D would need to live with her. W also said she like D to finish out the school year in this house and her current school. But if we stay then we are leading seperate lives and I have to acknowledge that.
Albac, yes, it [censored] with the in house seperation. Having to see my W all the time is tough and we constantly fall back in our old routines. Laying in bed beside her right now and typing this while she's sleeping. Surreal.
Me39 M11 : T13 D9 BD 5/31/16 In House S until 6/21/17 Divorced 10/5/18
Your W just seems bazaar (IMHO), when reading how she couples her and D together as she makes accusations against you. Instead of accusing you of treating her in some manner (the way most unhappy W's do), she always seems to say D and her. Can you see it? Yes, the child is the center of your lives, but your W's statements have a strange tone.
Exactly how are the two of you are separated? You live together, eat together, sleep in bed together,o and still do family events together. She announced to you that you're separated, so she can continue to have her A while benefiting from the M. Has this "separation" taken one thing away from her?
Quote:
W went to bed at 4am again. It's dawning on me that maybe I need to let her know that custody will not be what she thinks it will be
No! Custody is for her to find out and deal with it. If I were you, I would be concerned that she is going to present false information, to sway custody in her favor. She has made the choice to exclude you from her life (and is trying hard to exclude you from daughter's life, too)........let her experience the fallout of her decisions.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
lt0402 -- I wish I had something productive to say. I continue to think that your wife is showing serious signs of having narcissistic control issues. Does it possibly make sense to calmly and firmly let her know that you do not agree to her evaluation of your relationship with your D, past or present, and that you will not tolerate her lying about it and using it against you? She's entitled to her feelings and opinions, but not the facts. And the facts are that you and your D are fine (W gave away her hand when she said D was really looking forward to your trip; kids don't look forward to anything with a parent with whom they have no trust or whatever else your W makes up about the two of you).
Just thinking aloud. Bottom line: I hope you have a fantastic time with your D. It will be a great and special trip.
Me: 46 W: 44 Married: 17 Together 21 D13; S10 BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you) Almost 2 years trying, alone, to save marriage Status now: Divorced (effective 06.13.17)
The last two comments hit the target I think - she sounds narcissistic and enmeshed with your D. I have seen this happen in many cases, it has always been the mom but in most cases I have seen like this its usually its the dad instigating divorce because the W has persistently pushed him away from the family and kids, and usually with a heavy dose of parental alienation to boot. Basically, if this is true for her, then she sees your D as an extension of herself, and not as a separate person. These are the people that go off the deep end in custody battles, so you need to be very careful here. I would highly suggest seeing an attorney ASAP so you know your rights and are ready to get custody orders in place.
If you still want to save this, then she needs to see major consequences immediately. In my mind that is doing everything possible to cut off your support, cutting off as much $$ as possible, car insurance, phone and internet, and moving towards selling the house or going for sole use of the home etc. And while exposure is a big debate here, in your case I think it is extremely important that important people in your lives know what she is up to before this devolves into a custody battle. Because I think you need to fully expect that she is going to accuse you of doing terrible things to both her and your D, and if she is the first person to set the narrative, you will be shocked how many people will believe and support her. You probably dont believe she is capable of telling a court room full of strangers and family that you beat her or molested your own daughter, but this has happened to one degree or another in every single one of these case I have dealt with. None of those dads would have believed it either, and many ended up losing absolutely everything as these charges, mug shots and rumors never go away.
Of course the single biggest, and most important action you need to take is to get temporary custody orders to prevent her from taking your D out of the home, because without orders in place there is nothing you can do to stop her from doing so. And when she does, you may need to wait months for emergency hearings before you see her again, meanwhile your D is getting the full parental alienation treatment. It is orders of magnitude easier to keep her from taking your D than getting your D back. However, you have to know that this is the shot across the bow that will trigger your W full fury. So dont threaten her in advance, you just need to do it. And from then on, you need to be in full protection mode, recording all interactions, logging your activities every hour of the day, and locking your room at night.
Sounds scary, and it is, but if you protect yourself now, you will not have to deal with any of this later.
A lazy morning in the house before D and I leave for our overnight water park expedition. First thing, I respond to WWs late night text with this:
"Please don't insinuate that I'm a bad dad bc we both know that's not the case now. Her and I have had a ton of fun on two much more difficult days in the past 2 months."
W says when we go downstairs that was not what she meant. I just nod and keep moving. About 30 minutes before we go, W pulls me aside and breaks out the tears again. Says that she knows D is in good and capable hands with me but that she will miss her immensely. W knows that it's not healthy that she's so ingrained with D and she's having massive anxiety that she will be at house alone without D. She knows that I'm mad at her, but would I please send her updates so that she doesn't lose her mind. I tell her sure, validate a little, and I don't console her.
W was over the top in saying how she won't have anything to do while we are gone. That she's going to vacuum and hang out in her pjs. That she probably won't even leave the house. She went on and on about it yesterday and this morning. I think she's a horrible liar, but I'm not snooping anymore so who knows. Her sh&t to deal with.
D and I are having an amazing time at the water park! Did a ton of swimming and exploring. D even was brave enough to do a surfing simulator thing and did awesome! Brought a pizza back to the room for dinner. Did some wizard quest thing that was pretty fun and beat a dragon. Hit up the arcade and won a Pikachu in a claw game and got enough tickets for a "mega cute" wolf. (D was over the moon about the Pikachu). Did some bowling and had some chocolate ice cream. Snuggled and did iPad before bed. Had an AWESOME day!
Was slightly bummed about being on vacation with D for the first time without W but that feeling passed quickly. Really am having a great time! D is sleeping now and I'm sipping on a cold beer and unwinding. Realizing that if I have to, I can do the single parenting thing. It may not be to WWs demanding standards and routines, but I've got my own looser brand of parenting that works just as well. In a good place for now, though I don't expect that to last based on recent experience!
One thing I did do, sorry RSG, was give in a little on the updates. Told W we got here. Sent a picture of D at dinner. Sent a picture of D and I after we won Pikachu and eating our ice cream. Told W when D was asleep. Too much communication, I know. Not a permanent thing to do, but being the first time D is away from W outside the home I leaned toward not rocking the boat as much after last nights conversation. Next trip she gets minimal info. May be the wrong thing to do, but felt right to me this first time.
Waking up early tomorrow for more fun then Leaving after lunch. Such an awesome time getting D away from WW. Really a much different dynamic.
Fade, I need to think about your post. Will respond late tomorrow if that's ok. I appreciate your thoguhts! You're too JR! Everyone here is awesome and is share this beer with you if I could. Thanks everyone for your support!
Me39 M11 : T13 D9 BD 5/31/16 In House S until 6/21/17 Divorced 10/5/18
Yesterday full, beach, sea, ice cream, dodgems, roller coasters, rides to the max - incl haunted house which didn't go down so well as they had to go in a car for 2 alone. Big tears. We have had a great time so far, dinner playground and a show to end I all followed by tv and a cuddle.
Now ready for day 2.
You are clearly a good dad and despite fades fears and others over narcissism, this is a serious personality disorder and I think it is pretty rare. Acting in a narcissistic way is different and we can all be capable of that. So fears that she is going to go neuclear on accusations court etc. You will have a good idea of what she might do. More than others. My WW has similar behaviour to yours and I don't record too much. Why it's like a negative prophecy that you will make come true. Just react carefully, as you are and you will be fine - unless things do change.
So I had her telling the kids, you can call me every day etc. Although we are all going dark on this break I have decided. Got a text saying presume you got there last nigh with a spot of temp testing. Just said "yes sorry just tucking them in". Got a "thanks". That's the sum total until Friday PM now. Nothing more.
Also got the "bummed" point. Felt the same. Kids have mentioned it too. We have all left that behind. Too much fun.
Re: demanding standards. Do you have examples. I have lots and lots. Kids need suncream whilst away at least 3 times a day - factor 50 plus face sun block and sun suits. "Get fu**ed" was my 'inside voice' it's going to be 75f max and overcast. Factor 50 once a day max. There is so much in terms of demanding standards which I think is control. It does on normally. But the list prior to leaving was long. I just validated the nosey neighbour so I could get rid and then thought 'looser, happier parenting" here we come.
Just going to have a great time. Enjoy. Leave her to it don't contact her until you are back. At least the house will be tidy if not for you for the D when you get back - after all that vacuuming. Thr house must be the size of a castle if it's going to take that many hours of vacuuming........
Surfer.
M46/W40/D8/S6/T20/M12/Separated 6/2016,W takes kids Issues2009 Wpartying w/g.f's2013on EA2013PAdeniedWleavesMBR ImeetAP/EAhalts VariousBDDates MFCourse WSpew EAresumes I halt Wrages DBIng4/2016
She is on a path out on her own, don't stand in the way. Know your rights and make a plan for what your options are. You need to watch the cake eating. Let her do the heavy work with the S agreement, but when the time comes you will have to do your part in it.
You have more control then you think, she needs you to sign the S agreement for it to happen. Don't back down on 50% custody with your D. Look into living options for you. Look at all options. Keep your head up and focused on your D and yourself. Keep going forward at your pace not hers. Don't let her push you to do anything you don't want to do. Do what is best for your D and you. She is not a factor anymore.
Me late 30's W mid 30's T 15, M 10 S4, S7 ILYBNILWY June 2015 In house S July 2015 W rings off Oct 2015 My ring off Feb 2015 Separate houses June 2016
