...and D24 preparing for her new deployment to Norfolk VA.
Small world AP, we're actually about an hour or so from there.
On the FB stuff, you know my thoughts. Nothing good can come from it. Just cut the ties already!
On everything else, sounds like you had a busy time this weekend! I can understand how it's hard to keep that secret, especially if you think it's helping her facilitate things.
Originally Posted By: darknes
Originally Posted By: AndrewP
I also said that I was very confused about her leaving and that she was welcome to come back at any time.
she was welcome to come home at any time.
Is this really truly how you feel? Your W has been off living as a single woman doing lord knows what with OM and youre cool with just letting her waltz in whenever she wants?
Im not suggesting that you stop loving her or whatever. Im not suggesting that you should throw her on the street. I know you have a list of things that you would need in order to R. Lets say she isnt willing to do them? Then what?
My point is that you should stop saying that she can come back at any time. I think you will be much better served personally (such as not feeling like shes dragging you around by the balls) by being "open to a discussion about reconciling" were it to come to that. I think thats a very different mindset from "the door is always open".
Darknes, as always, is pretty spot on here. I find myself at a point in my situation where I'm probably going to have to frame things to my WW. It seems very hard to get away from the "open arms" policy we'd lean towards. But again, it's about not framing yourself as "Plan B" and showing her that you may, in fact, not be there if she tries to come back (which actually may be true).
Don't take Darnes' recommendation for GAL activities too lightly. They will definitely help you get through the hours. Your brain and body need a rest from all these stressors.
Hang in there brother!
Me39 M11 : T13 D9 BD 5/31/16 In House S until 6/21/17 Divorced 10/5/18
Is this really truly how you feel? Your W has been off living as a single woman doing lord knows what with OM and youre cool with just letting her waltz in whenever she wants?
darknes - Even though this may well get back to WW the audience for these discussions wasn't her. She is "well aware" that there are conditions in her returning - if that ever happens. She did see a draft copy of my list of items for reconciling (dropping OM and being patient mostly). The audience here is my neighbours and in this case a person who has a definite influence over WW. It may be foolish and childish but I don't want to be seen as the "bad guy" here which is why a "very" small number of neighbours (3) have heard this line. This 4th person - WW's friend - perhaps I didn't handle that in the very best way but I wanted her to know that if WW was still undecided - which she indicated was the case - that the door wasn't closed. "open to a discussion about reconciling" would sound contrived and is far more detail than I should be passing out. If nothing else the next time that they talk WW will hear how good I look and that the door isn't closed. She will also perhaps hear that I have some anger which will reinforce the anger she heard last Wednesday and know that the path home wouldn't be easy if she chooses to walk it. If I had answered "doing fine - not missing WW at all" I doubt that would have induced WW to panic and come rushing home - I could be wrong of course and I'm trying to quit mind-reading.
Yes - perhaps STFU would have been the "best" strategy but I don't see what that would have accomplished beyond looking petty and rude. "Fine" would have been a lie to this person who knows so much.
On a positive note - I very much did not ask WW's friend how she was doing. That information was volunteered and I believe that I showed no interest in it. Mind you I was still processing the shock first of being talked to and secondly that this friend was still in WW's inner circle. Just like you told me at the time - the noise she cut out was me and perhaps nobody else.
I've been re-reading the notes on the forum about how to have the discussions with the scared squirrel if she turns this way to try to burn them into my brain and make them my own for if it ever comes to pass that WW actually talks to me. Realistically it has now been 1 month and 1 day from the last time she did. I really feel like giving up and just calling my L more and more each day.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Andrew, as a woman I can tell you that there are a lot of games desperate women play that can suck you in while they say, "who me? I wouldn't do that, I didn't say that... " etc. <snip> I just wanted to caution you that the poachers are up to no good for you emotionally.
Buxom - thank you for the perspective. Actually she went on a bit of a rant herself about women who prey on men who are recently widowed (like OM is). I honestly don't think that she is pursuing intentionally but I'm putting up some barriers and dialing back the contact and especially the emotion. She's of about my age and had a bad time (I don't know details) with a man about 5 years ago that completely wrecked her life. I gave her her first real job after that happened and helped her build the skills she needed to go on to a promising new career. Not charity on my part - she had the soft skills I was hiring for and was offered by the agency at a bargain price but she has been very grateful to me ever since. Just like with WW falling for OM - these things can certainly happen when you don't plan on it and are least expecting it.
I know myself to be in a very fragile, vulnerable position right now and am worried about being drawn into something that isn't right for me (or for the other too). Odd as it seems in some ways I am grateful to WW for removing herself from the MBR and eventually our home on her own. It's made detaching and what healing I've managed to do a lot easier than it would have been otherwise. I feel for people like yourself who don't get that distance and are having to cope with their sitch while in a stew of bubbling hormones and emotions with a fire underneath it all. That's also why I worry so much about handling a possible return of WW and standing firm on not letting her walk all over me.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Agreed. I guess another possible scenario is women like to rescue and a vulnerable man can make them feel helpful and then emotions get involved. All so tangled. Yes my sitch is difficult but last night was a bit of a breakthrough. I hope?
Me54 WH48 S18 D16 M 22 T 24 EA-PA-EA 2011-2015 Separated 10/14 - 06/15 BD1 02/14 BD2 05/16 BD3 08/21/16 and began drinking again Working on me and liking me again
you going out of your way letting your W know that the door is still open, is actually the worst thing you could do. It goes against the common sense, but I'd be willing to bet the farm on this one.
It just reinforces her belief that Andrew is waiting and being a good Plan B if OM situation should fail. Do you really want to be anyone's plan B? She needs to feel the loss of you... Plain and simple...
you going out of your way letting your W know that the door is still open, is actually the worst thing you could do. It goes against the common sense, but I'd be willing to bet the farm on this one.
It just reinforces her belief that Andrew is waiting and being a good Plan B if OM situation should fail. Do you really want to be anyone's plan B? She needs to feel the loss of you... Plain and simple...
Well - that horse had already left the barn when I got on my knees and begged her to stay on the day she left. The only way that this will get back to WW is indirectly though through heaven-only knows what sort of distortion via rumour and gossip and her friend's own agenda.
How do you suggest that she "feel the loss"? I'm already NC and essentially have been since she walked out a month ago. She's seen the piles of boxes of her stuff growing in the front porch. She's seen me having GAL activities. Having given up mind-reading I can't really "know" what she's feeling. On the other hand I get chastised here regularly for trying to manipulate her.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
If I had answered "doing fine - not missing WW at all" I doubt that would have induced WW to panic and come rushing home
Hmmmm....I doubt that she would come running home. But I think it is more likely to have the effect you are looking for. I get that you dont want to be "the bad guy", but I dont see how you living an awesome life makes you the bad guy.
My point in bringing this up wasnt about the exact conversations you had, it's more about your attitude. Youve been saying this "door is open" crap to several people. It leads me to believe it isnt for show, but it's really how you feel. And thats what worries me. If you are feeling like the door is always open, then there will never be any incentive for your W to walk through it.
My point in bringing this up wasnt about the exact conversations you had, it's more about your attitude. Youve been saying this "door is open" crap to several people. It leads me to believe it isnt for show, but it's really how you feel. And thats what worries me. If you are feeling like the door is always open, then there will never be any incentive for your W to walk through it.
darknes - Can I induce you to come up to Canada and become my new IC / DB coach? I've got a spare room or three you could stay in. doodler could send us his peanut butter cookie recipe. I think WW left a couple of board games for quiet evenings but I'm not 100% sure on that - haven't gotten to that part of the house in my purge / cleanup.
As usual you've hit the nail right on the head. I know that DBing is counter-intuitive on this topic but in my heart the answer is in fact "yes" - the door "is" open. I know that for the sake of any future MR that there is a need for her to have the right passwords for that door to be opened and that there will be a maze for us both to navigate to find each other again and that I can't be weak on that. If I decided for myself that that door was closed then I wouldn't be here. The fact that there are passwords and a maze is not relevant to anybody that I'm talking to even if those words eventually find their way to WW who already knows this anyway. I have told 4 people total (realistically 2) where it could conceivably get back to WW and only once very briefly to each of them about the situation with the door. I'm not going around the village moaning "oh I wish WW would come back to me" so lets not take this out of proportion please.
Where perhaps the struggle comes for me in this place and at this time is the fact that I am currently allowing WW to control the agenda and timeline. I have no clue at all if she's living a life of wild abandon with routine dalliances with OM or OM2,3,x. Nor realistically does that matter. What I do know is that she told both myself and S22/D24 that she needed some time and space to decide where her heart lies. In the meantime she is still publicly carrying on as married but living apart and keeping her A as secret as possible. The only cake being eaten is her knowing that she has a Plan B and me hoping that I become her Plan A. If she wanted to S she could easily have started that. While I could at any moment start the D process it would not be being true to my marriage oaths, my family or myself to not give her a reasonable amount of time to decide that. From what little the village grapevine feeds me back, she is struggling badly so I actually do believe in my heart that she is torn and trying to decide. I currently struggle every day in my heart to know what "reasonable" might be but feel that 1 month isn't reasonable enough yet. I won't bother to debate about the preceding 5 months.
I'm failing to get the connection though between what I feel in my heart right now and anything that would incentivise WW or manipulate the timeline for her own journey. She doesn't talk to me nor I to her. The little communication that has happened since she left can't be considered "talk". One thing that has been made clear to me via multiple 2X4 strikes - several delivered with great care by yourself is that I cannot influence or manipulate her. I know that I sob and weep and do the "poor me" thing here a lot but the rest of the world sees a man who is moving on and living his life as best as he can alone. It's not perhaps the awesome life you want me to have and that yes, I should want for myself but it's getting better each day (most days). The sort of healing that I have to do will take time and I'm trying to do it as privately as I can outside of these electronic walls. Yes, perhaps the interaction with W's friend could have happened better but I'm not going to spend 2000 times the length of that interaction agonizing over what I should have said / done when really - I have no clue.
Other than moving forward on my own as best as I can and not living for the hope that WW will turn towards me there's really not a lot that I honestly think that I can do right now. I still wish for her to come home and for us to be a family again but am struggling more and more each day with wishes that don't come true.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
doodler could send us his peanut butter cookie recipe. I think WW left a couple of board games for quiet evenings but I'm not 100% sure on that - haven't gotten to that part of the house in my purge / cleanup.