The biggest thing I noticed about your apology is that you blamed everyone for flaming you first which is what caused your reaction.
First of all, no one "flamed" you. No one here is a troll just looking to push your buttons on purpose. Go back and read and REALLY try to understand what they wrote.
Next, I really do mean it when I say that what your situation is with your spouse, who you are, etc. we really have seen it before. The faces are different, but the way you acted, the way you are looking at another woman, the way your W is acting, etc., we really have seen it before.
You are going to have to learn to understand what others are telling you so that you can grow as an individual and a man.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
My BD was over two years ago. It's been quite a road. I invite you to look up my original thread and read through my first 3-6 months. I'm glad I was posting. I might have blocked it out if I didn't have a record of it.
I haven't been posting on newcomers or these forums much lately for a couple of reasons. One is that as this crisis fades from the forefront of my life I don't share this in common with the other posters on this forum. And without this common ground I have realized how different I am, and while I don't feel I 'don't fit in', I just seem to beat to a different drum. But the other reason is that I often question my own well intentioned 'advice' to newcomers. Talking about what I went through, what I learned, etc, it doesn't change the fact you will have to go through what you go through, you will have to learn your own lessons, etc. Can anything I do actually help you through these troubled times? Will you be supported through your loss? Will you feel understood and validated when the woman that vowed to love you is making you the villain of her life story? Will something I say help you see something in a way that will help you avoid making destructive decisions in your life? I really wonder.
But I do think so. This forum was a tremendous help to me. I can tell you that this last two years of my life has been tougher than the other 35 put together. Posting about what I was going through was one of the things that kept me sane. And the advice from others was helpful for all of the reasons above. Not because others were wise and I was the bumbling apprentice, but because after you read a few hundred threads you see patterns, and you can start to see how the decisions you make today play out in the future, and how people's lives change.
Why the long preamble? Well, partly to introduce myself, and so you don't think I'm just hopping on this thread to throw stones, or to join what can seem like a chorus of criticism for being who you are. I feel like I have some things in common with you. I have always been very driven, tremendously successful professionally. I am a competitor, top pool player, competing in national and international tournaments, and a top 50 US player (or thereabouts, the rankings are kind of obscure). I am a perfectionist, I strive hard, I am very sensitive, and I swear that when the lord was passing out emotions, mine are stronger than those around me, because they are so intense it's just not possible that others can feel things as strongly as I do or they couldn't do or say some of the things they do that cause so much hurt.
Yup, those powerful emotions. I didn't know how to handle them. For 25 years I thought I had it figured out. I just told them to F off. I buried them. I played pool. I dissociated. I didn't need them. I would just focus on being the best in the world. Why not? What good were they? All they did was hurt. I learned that when I focused on a shot in front of me, everything else went away, and that I felt relief, just being in the moment, the pleasure of shooting one good shot. The emotions caused me pain, I walled it all off, turned all that pain into fire in my belly, and pursued perfection. I was going to be the best pool player in the world, and nothing else mattered. When they got too strong to wall off I'd think of ending it all, only to regroup and vow to be stronger. Well, long story longer, in the middle of this I decided to try to live a 'normal' life and get married, and needless to say that didn't work. I won't get started on that right now. I'll just say that bomb drop was soul shattering.
My biggest mission the last 24 months has been to learn to live WITH my emotions. For so, so long I didn't. I hated them, I resented them, I denied them. I tried to control them. I tried to transcend them. I tried to decide them. Making decisions about how I believed I wanted to feel, telling myself that's how I felt because that's how the person I wish I was ought to feel. Using twisted logic. "There's no reason in suffering over a woman that left me, that doesn't help, so I'll just be ok with it". LOL. Sure, if you take a razor and cut your mind apart from your heart and soul, twist things around enough, you can do almost anything.
But it didn't work out too well. Oh, I denied it. After all, I was tremendously successful. I told IC I wasn't crazy or delusional, it wasn't like I invented the fact that I had been promoted 4 times in 5 years, or that I had won all of those tournaments or money matches. IC replied "yeah, but you also haven't invented the fact that your W is divorcing you and that you have thought about suicide daily over the last few years". Good point he made. In the end I realized that I was suffering, that I didn't have the relationship I wanted. While I was very competent and gifted, I also see that me doing things my way wasn't getting me what I wanted.
What I thought I was doing was controlling my emotions. What actually happened was they were controlling me. Another funny IC exchange, my IC told me fear controlled my life. I laughed, I told him that I was fearless. I put myself out of my comfort zone every day. I am in a corporate sales world that is overridden with stress and anxiety. I gamble for so much money we don't count it, we weigh it, and there are big crowds watching my every move and betting on the outcome. I love looking fear dead in the eye and seeing who flinches first. I told this to IC, and he said "Like I said, fear controls you. I didn't say you ran from it. But you have contorted your entire life to face down fear again, and again, and again, as if these victories would rid you of that demon". Darn it. Guy is smart. And the same way fear controlled me when I thought I was controlling it, so too did so many other emotions.
I realized that if I am to have the life I want I have to learn to live with my emotions. Shoot. Those darn things. But if I don't, it won't work. Sure, I can blame women for being too entitled to appreciate a good man, I can blame God for making a world that doesn't work the way I wish it did. But ultimately I'm the one that suffers. Learning to live with my emotions was a doozy, I have an addict mentality from day one, I am used to controlling, distorting, avoiding, medicating, and so many other things to avoid them. But I have learned that letting them have their way with me isn't giving them control, it is actually taking control back.
IC told me it was like a board room where *I* am the decision maker. On the panel there are different people, different voices. There is fear, there is anger, there is logic, there is selfishness, whatever. Each has a voice. My job is to be able to hear all of their voices, then ultimately make the decision that is best for the company of me. But I need to hear all of those voices to make informed decisions, and I can't give any one of them control either directly (making decisions strictly out of fear, anger, pain, etc) or indirectly (letting them overpower me or me making decisions contrarily trying to overpower them).
So these days I tell myself not to use emotions as a compass to guide my life as they are inconsistent and unreliable, and not to use my thoughts to guide my life as they are usually just rationalizations that are reactions to those emotions. Instead I try to think of my core values and beliefs, and follow those to make my decisions. I believe I need to be a good father to my children. I believe I want to live in a way that when I look back I will be proud of. I believe I want to do what I can to make others that bump into me a little better off for the experience. Etc. I trust that if I strive to do those things, well, in the end it will all be ok. I don't know about happy, I think happiness is overrated but that's another rant for another day.
I see a lot in common with you. And reading others' advice and your reaction is hard. It's like watching someone that is drunk trying to get their keys back from their friend, insisting they can drive. My man, if you drink a 12 pack there is no shame in being drunk. That is a natural reaction, not a judgment on your ability to drive in general. Likewise when you go through BD, it WILL screw up your emotions, on top of some already questionable emotional management attitudes and skills that might have contributed to this situation. I am not faulting you for not being perfect, because no one is. But it is your job to understand that you are not in total control right now. The humility to be broken will allow you to be the person you want to be and grow into a strong man that is rewarded with the life you want. The insistence that you can manage it all and lead through because 'you got this', that is reckless. That is what we are trying to tell you. Maybe it is necessary. Maybe you haven't really hit 'rock bottom'. But when you do, when you truly reach the end of this idea that you have it all under control and surrender, please know that isn't the end. It's the beginning. It doesn't mean you are wrong now. It just means you are human. We're all right there with you my man. Keep posting, keep striving. Take care.
PS- here is what got me through my darkest hours in life. When the time comes all looks black please remember we care for you.
When you expect it least, the ego, declared dead, will surge into your mind, and in an instant you will seem so far removed from Tao as heaven from earth.
Has it ever happened to you? Don't despair. Let it go. Do what comes next.
Accepting failure is a humbling experience akin to enlightenment. In an instant you will discover that heaven and earth are one and that you have never been separated from Tao.
The Taoist sage lives in harmony with failure and never fails.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
You did a relationship inventory using the tools that you already have. Probably not a fair assessment in the grand scheme of relationships...
Originally Posted By: qt4x11
I've only really had two really multi year LTRs - my wife and then the LTR I had in my 20s. Both relationships fizzled because I 'mentally check out' - not being abusive, not being mean, just generally spending more and more time alone working on my own hobbies - the music, the side business.
How much have you learned about the differences between being an introvert, and being an extrovert in styles of communication ?
Styles of life ?
Originally Posted By: qt4x11
The weed didn't help
Don't blame the weed, it didn't make those choices, you did...
Originally Posted By: qt4x11
although my former girlfriend didn't think anything of it. And then me being very defensive when asked to sacrifice my 'alone time'
You don't know that it didn't affect her.
That's the thing...we never know how our actions affect another person.
Typically, we interject how we want them to feel, or how we want them to react, and then that our assumptions are correct and develop behavioral patterns accordingly....
Fair ? Hardly.....
Originally Posted By: qt4x11
justifying it by saying that I spend so much time working I need to 'recharge' - pushing back when asked to go to social functions and activities that would take away from my alone time.
How effective were you in communicating that ?
How DID you communicate that ?
Originally Posted By: qt4x11
Feeling complacent in the relationship, but not wanting to leave because I am comfortable if not totally happy. I think at some point I stopped feeling part of a 'partnership' and become very selfish with my time attention and emotions. I think my ex took this very hard, as a rejection of sorts on my part.
If the situation was reversed, then I am sure that you would feel the same way.
Emotional abandonment is a form of abuse....
Originally Posted By: qt
What I want in the future is to grow. Find a way to become a more balanced person with better communication skills and empathy - all without sacrificing time to work on my personal projects, which I really appreciate now that I'm alone. I also want to be more social, put more of a priority on other people instead of myself. Also now that I'm a single father I have to really pay close attention to how I'm handling myself in that regard.
So what is your plan to get there ???
From what I have read, you seem to REACT emotionally in most situations. You did it with her, and you did it the other day.
Stop thinking that everyone is planning your doom.
Thinking is what got you here...
I would also suggest that you narrow down the things that you want to work on, and really focus on the specific areas that you want to change.
Too much at once will leave you just touching the surface, and really never change specific patterns of behavior.
A WAS can smell fake, like Oprah can smell a Twinkie at a picnic..
Change for YOU, not to get her back...
Get back to DB101...
Goals GAL Don't go down cheeseless tunnels Act as if 48 hour rule
And please stop thinking that you have no choice in this.
You made most of your choices already. Her filing, is simply a reaction to her choices, amongst some other things.
And please stop thinking that, even though the legal process MAY be followed through...
That you cannot have a relationship with your spouse in the future...
However, everything MUST be different when that happens.
But the other reason is that I often question my own well intentioned 'advice' to newcomers. Talking about what I went through, what I learned, etc, it doesn't change the fact you will have to go through what you go through, you will have to learn your own lessons, etc. Can anything I do actually help you through these troubled times? Will you be supported through your loss? Will you feel understood and validated when the woman that vowed to love you is making you the villain of her life story? Will something I say help you see something in a way that will help you avoid making destructive decisions in your life? I really wonder.
Yeah I feel the same way when commenting on other newcomers threads. Nothing I can say will minimize the how those people experience the emotional devastation. I do think that the 2x4s helped me avoid the destructive decision of starting to date too early, so in that particular case it was helpful.
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But I do think so. This forum was a tremendous help to me. I can tell you that this last two years of my life has been tougher than the other 35 put together. Posting about what I was going through was one of the things that kept me sane.
Oh man, I'm already anticipating a rough couple of years ahead. Yeah I guess I should clarify that my reasons for posting have evolved from - wanting advice on how to 'get my wife back', to 'just wanting to sort out everything in my head', and journaling is a good way to do it.
Yeah, it sounds like we have similar personalities. That kind of success is often achieved by people who are narrowly focused and driven. Let me guess - your ex did not understand your drive to achieve at a certain level, this caused resentment, which caused you to bury yourself in your work as well? We bury ourselves in our work and pursuing success, and its understandable - isn't that what we're supposed to do? Isn't that the advantage of being married - once our home life is sorted, we can focus on pursuing other goals? And we're taught as men to be stoic and ignore our emotions. One thought I had is - that not dealing with relationship problems has its price, often you don't pay it until much later on. Little fights and comments will come back to haunt you long after you've forgotten them.
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Maybe you haven't really hit 'rock bottom'. But when you do, when you truly reach the end of this idea that you have it all under control and surrender, please know that isn't the end. It's the beginning. It doesn't mean you are wrong now. It just means you are human. We're all right there with you my man. Keep posting, keep striving. Take care.
Oh god I hope that I already have, I can't take anymore pain. It's a struggle just to keep it under control right now.
Is divorce really a failure? Is that a healthy attitude? People who are not married break up after LTR - nobody brands them as 'failures'? Isn't it healthier to say divorce is just something that happens, you did the best with what you knew at the time, noone is to blame, and the best is just learn from it and grow.
Me-45, W-37, T-10 yrs, M-9 yrs D -7 yrs, S-5 yrs BD-5/3/16, D filed 6/8/16
Well these discussions turned into fights. I tried to explain my need to focus on certain things, but I probably was overly defensive and argumentative. In the end I don't think we were able to resolve my need to focus on my goals with her need to feel more connected in the relationship and lead a more vibrant social life while married. This was both of our faults - but I was the one who was lying and smoking weed, so it became more of my fault.
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And please stop thinking that, even though the legal process MAY be followed through...
That you cannot have a relationship with your spouse in the future...
The legal process is causing me so much pain right now it's crazy - every week there's another BD that makes me feel like my world is exploding. I have to let go of any possibility of reconciliation right now, it's just too painful to hold onto that hope.
I feel like a lot of my lashing out in my previous thread had to do with people advising me as if the main objective should be to preserve that possibility of R with my wife - and my feeling that I need to totally cut out all hope of reconciliation right now because hanging on like that is causing me so much heartache.
Me-45, W-37, T-10 yrs, M-9 yrs D -7 yrs, S-5 yrs BD-5/3/16, D filed 6/8/16
The legal process is causing me so much pain right now it's crazy - every week there's another BD that makes me feel like my world is exploding. I have to let go of any possibility of reconciliation right now, it's just too painful to hold onto that hope.
I feel like a lot of my lashing out in my previous thread had to do with people advising me as if the main objective should be to preserve that possibility of R with my wife - and my feeling that I need to totally cut out all hope of reconciliation right now because hanging on like that is causing me so much heartache.
I didn't say that it would, I said that it could....
Hope is a fickle thing....
Shawshank Redemption ???
Kind of like that...
Work toward "you", and IF "us" happens ???
Then you cross that bridge...
As far as the hurt ?
Feel it, let it burn right through you. Use it for fuel to make it another day...
Use your anger as a shield, NOT as a sword...
The day that I hit MY rock bottom with this, I went outside and screamed at God to give me everything that he had, so that I would know my breaking point....
Yes, I buried myself in my work, and in my competition. My M was horrible, I coped the best I could.
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Is divorce really a failure? Is that a healthy attitude? People who are not married break up after LTR - nobody brands them as 'failures'? Isn't it healthier to say divorce is just something that happens, you did the best with what you knew at the time, noone is to blame, and the best is just learn from it and grow.
Here's the thing. People can say whatever they want. But reality is reality.
Everyone has a personal narrative. My XW can say that she needed to get D for her survival. People can say that children are resilient. I can say that divorce is a catalyst for personal growth.
That doesn't change the facts. The fact is that XW chose to get divorced, that my children are impacted forever, and that D is the most monumental loss I'll ever face.
One of my main points of my last post was that we can't simply decide in our heads how we want things to be. That's crazy. They are how they are. If something hurts, we can't just hit the bong and say "I'm a positive guy, so I'll just look at it in a positive light, and now it's all groovey maaaan..." Well, we can, but as long as we avoid the reality of our situation and our emotions we will be suppressing a lot, dissociated, reacting to stuff we don't understand, seem super sensitive and a bit crazy to those around us because they don't see the same delusions we are trying to buy into.
Everyone does this a bit now and then, but at least be aware of it. WAS's rewrite history. LBS's diagnose their WAS's. Trust me, read a few hundred threads and you'll start to see the patterns in the way the LBS's react to their partner's leaving them. They feel the same feelings, think the same thoughts, and latch on to the same narratives and stories. So what I'm trying to tell you is not to be too sure of yourself or your conclusions. The most sane thing you can do is realize you're emotional and crazy, and not act on your emotions, your thoughts (reactions/rationalizations), etc. That is why I said it was like driving drunk, and why other people are preaching a 48 hour rule and avoiding major life decisions. It's a good time to keep your mouth shut, do nothing, journal, observe the patterns of others, watch yourself spin through a few cycles of your own craziness, and see where you are in 90 days. If I'm wrong and your feelings, thoughts, and beliefs are absolutely consistent, then hey, you didn't get laid for two months you could've been banging some skank. But if I'm right, you might avoid crashing your car (your life).
PS- I'm not advising you to "hold onto hope" for your M. I just don't think your next few months should look any different whether you do or don't long for R.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Where is your story please? I know that you are one of the few that reconciled after your wife was in major MLC. How long was your wife in a MLC? Was there an OM? Did you do no contact, for how long? Etc.... Thanks.
Wow! 5 years! and your daughter is 5 so she was an infant when she left! Did you get divorced? Did you remarry? Did you find a girlfriend during those 5 years? Did your wife have a troubled childhood? Did her parents get divorced? After how many years did your wife start to become friendly?
