Newby here, desperate for some advice (thread 3)

[lt0402]

I know what you mean. My W is not a model, but is a petite, intelligent redhead w/ a quirky sense of humor, great eyes, and great smile. After we had our D9 she had a thyroid issue and gained a bunch of weight, but she was still the same beautiful woman she's always been. She's shaken off that weight over the past 1.5yrs and now is back to looking like she did when we first started dating.

lt0402- this is the first time I read about what your W looks like, or good qualities "intelligent" & "quirky" that you've mentioned.

My W is a redhead as well!

cheesyt, yep, even if she is making things a mess recently, she's still the most beautiful woman in the world to me. She's unique, which is what drew me too her and she's typically an awesome mom.

Now if only I could get that woman back! This new one is no Bueno! Everyone always warned me about marrying a redhead by the way.

[JRuss]

I think this may be where the distinction b/t WW and WAS might matter. I think it's very, very hard to "break" the waywardness of a WW without, as sandi2 puts it, a significant "loss". Which is next to impossible when you live in the same home and are trying to make it look like everything's fine for your children's sake. There's such an element of anger/resentment in those situations, along with a seemingly uncontrollable need to act out, that the mere sight of you -- even if it's a remade, 180'd, GAL-ing machine version of you --- just drives them further into whatever it is they really want to do.

Where your S is WAS, however, but hasn't physically "walked away" yet, maybe just a $hit ton of GALing and 180s could work. It seems that the main attribute of a WAS is that, in her mind, she worked very hard to save her marriage, but it didn't work (uhh, mainly because you didn't tell us????!!!!!!), and she quit and doesn't think she could ever be persuaded that we can or would do the things that would allow her to recommit to the relationship. Quitting can be changed, I'd think, especially if you are really nailing the things that caused her to fall out of love with you in the first place.

At least that's what I tell myself, and why I always find myself trying to reaffirm for myself that my W is "only" WAS and not WW. But I have no idea if that's right.

[ForGump]

I just want to chime in and say that a key to DB is to truly DETACH. I think one can go nuts doing GAL & 180... but it *still* communicates to the W that this is meant for her. I think detaching while in-house is ... you gotta rise to the level of a Jedi. Takes some serious level of meditation, and deliberate action. You have to harness The Force... somehow. I'm trying to work on it. I think my W still feels my life revolves around hers.

[JRuss]

Which returns us to the "how" part of detachment, especially when they are right there, can observe you doing what you're doing, and continue to think it's all about/for them. Pulling that off is the stuff of Jedis, for sure. Are we up for it?

[doodler]

JRuss,

In my opinion "trying to detach" is an oxymoron because the act of trying requires acknowledgement of attachment. It's similar to looking into one mirror in order to see yourself in another mirror. It goes on into infinity. (And it's possible that I'm full of sh*t.)

I think detachment is a side effect of moving on with your life. GAL is the tool and immersion is the goal.

Can anyone tell me what I should do with the two plain white columns on my front porch?

[ForGump]

To get down into the weeds a bit ... what I try to do when I get up is, "How would I act around a neutral housemate?" I try to be positive, considerate, but try not to let my mind wander into, "How is she doing?" "What is she going to do today," Etc. Let my housemate live her life.

And for the weekend, I just try to schedule it the way I want to, to meet my needs/wants (which includes wanting to do stuff with my kids!!!) And coordinate w/ her on the schedule. I actually just scheduled several possible activities for the weekend w/ some mutual friends, and when she became aware, she asked if she can join the group on one of the activities. I said yes. (Actually, I slipped and said something even more welcoming. Bad house elf!)

I write this to share & get your feedback. I'm good w/ 2x4's, 4x4's, claw-hammers, mallets....

[JRuss]

doodler -- I definitely think you're right. What I'm struggling with is how we arrive at the needed side effect when our W is right there, still looking very fine, we're still acting like we're happily married for the kids' benefit, etc. Play acting messes with my head, and I forget a fair amount of the time that it's acting, and I get to hoping I'm seeing tender shoots and . . . her Cling Detector will go off, and she'll then drop some Arctic Tundra on my a$$, and I feel like I'm back to square one, emotionally speaking.

[JRuss]

ForGump -- I get it, in theory. But we don't typically sleep 2" from our neutral housemates, we haven't ML with our neutral housemates a zillion times, our neutral housemates don't in their sleep grab our arm and hold up (until they wake up, realize it, and let go like it scalds them) and they don't kiss us on the cheek on the way to work in the AM.

I'm starting to get into whiny territory, sorry!

[doodler]

JRuss,

My WW and I did the same thing. I kept hoping for an improved marriage and she kept playing me. When she moved out, suddenly everything felt much lighter and happier. I guess that was the beginning of "real" detachment; I realised everything was just as good (or better) without her.

But, having said that, I think it's situation dependent. If my wife had been at least somewhat open to working on our marriage, then I think it would've been better for her to remain at home. Unfortunately, her litmus test for me was acceptance of the OM as "just a friend." Fortunately, my MC/IC would have none of that. (My IC is truly a wonderful woman.)

But, this is about detachment, and I agree, detaching while living together has got to be difficult.

[ForGump]

Which is why detaching w/ in-house WW requires some serious Jedi mind trick. Truly hard to detach when the situation has you attached in so many ways. But I also believe that's the only chance we have (and not a very good one at that.)