How to rekindle love?

[Rose888]

Rose, thank you. My posts were to help sr9, sounds like you've done a lot of thinking on this.

Obviously there is a two way street. He needs to own his behavior. Part of that may be what he provides to you to meet your needs. Part of that is to manage through his fears and insecurities. Part of that is to accept that we don't get everything we want in life.

One of your needs is to feel safe, that you have a man you can depend on being there. He needs to realize that his fear of being sexually unfulfilled is a trigger for your fear he'll walk. It's really tricky to work through this as a couple, because when you or he voice your feelings and needs it is liable to wake up fears in their partner. It's hard to work as a team through this without help. Ideally the same way that you are doing what you can to accommodate him, he should be doing what he can to assure you that he isn't walking.

And he needs to understand that he won't always be sexually fulfilled every moment, and that if there is a tough week or month or bad night, he can't overreact and extrapolate and blow that out of proportion. Finally, the part about not getting everything you want is critical too, because a man's appetite is insatiable and there will always be hunger for more. This next sentence is important to me, I've never found a way to express it before so here goes: Sex isn't important to a man because it fulfills a sexual hunger, sex is important to a man because it's his partner's way of acknowledging and validating the pain of living with constant endless unquenchable desire. So he needs to still live with that, that's just part of being a man.

Just remember one thing Rose...maybe he is trying to assure you he isn't going to leave. But then when he voices his fears, you get afraid. Or he assures you that he won't leave...but you stil have your doubts because he seems distant at times, or one day he spoke with a viewpoint that he used when he was in the fog. My point is that it's eerily parallel to his need for reassurances and his fears. So to some point you will just have to work through these as well, and accept that it won't be perfect, and that you'll never have the absolute trust and commitment that you crave because that isn't possible in this world.

I'm getting dizzy. I think I have some clarity and then it gets so complicated I sometimes lose the thread. Maybe I am murking up the waters. I guess I could've just said you both have to do your best and accept what that looks like, and trust that it will get better as months turn to years and your track record becomes better and better. I don't know your sitch well, I was drawn here by another poster I follow...but I'll keep up now. Keep it going Rose!

Thank you so much for this post, Zues. You articulate things that I've been slowly clarifying in my own mind.

I think H IS trying to reassure me as much as he can while being honest about his feelings and needs. There is nothing in his behavior now that indicates he won't be around in the future. He talks about plans for us once the kids are grown.

And yes, I have to learn to deal with the lack of absolute security. Because let's face it. Life isn't 100% certain anyway.

[JksD]

Thanks for your clarification, Rose.

I won't suggest that you read The Passionate Marriage because it seems you've read this.

Something about your H jumps out at me. Where does he get his expectations about how a passionate M or sex looks like? Is he unhappy because his expectations are not met or is he unhappy because he thinks that he is not fulfilling you and he thinks you're unhappy?

He seems to be pretty hung up on physical symptoms as barometers of sexual and thus M satisfaction. Could it be that this issue is a smokescreen for other issues?

Before I ramble on and forget what I want to say, the point I want to make is that instead of viewing sex as a 1 course meal, why don't both of you view it as at least a 3 course meal?

And you dont always have to have all 3 courses. Sometimes, appetiser, sometimes dessert and sometimes main course. Not all meals have to be mindblowing Michelin starred meals. Some meals can be meh.

Also have you considered sensual but not necessarily sexual contexts and activities? Massages, and eh, performances for his eyes only etc etc?

Disclaimer though - this is advice from someone who didn't manage to save my M.

I apologise if someone else has made the same suggestions because I skimmed through your thread rather quickly.

[Rose888]

Just journaling.

Mostly more of the same here. Things feel really good in most ways. I think if you had shown the me of two years ago a snapshot of our life now, I would think our M was great--possibly the best it's ever been.

I don't trust the image.

I know now that I don't know what is going on in H's head and heart.

However, his actions are great. It looks like my work might be relocating me, and H is actively researching housing and schools. No indication he has any hesitation about making the move with us.

I know I need to stay vigilant with my 180s. Some of them feel natural at this point. Some, I can see slipping a bit, and I need to refocus on them.

I do not take this for granted. Sometimes my head starts worrying about What Ifs, but I work hard to get off that train.

So, life is good, but I know problems can resurface at unexpected moments, so I don't claim that we have made it.

[Rose888]

Grl, I missed this in my pre-vacation rush.

I think you raise some interesting issues, but most of them would require H to be willing to change some of his views, and I don't think it would be good for me to bring that up. I need to focus on me and what I can change.

That said, I am doing some things to up my sensual and sexual confidence, because I realize I have pretty much zero. I want to do that for me, and if H enjoys the side effects, that's a bonus.

[roist]

I like your post. Firstly I am happy things are going well. Secondly you know the keep going with your own work .

It is great you don't take things for granted, either with H or even within your own changes. That is good as long as you use it to avoid complacency but do not live in fear.

Would you be Willing to comment on what helped you most turn around the situation?I ask for newbies and not so new!

[Rose888]

I like your post. Firstly I am happy things are going well. Secondly you know the keep going with your own work .

It is great you don't take things for granted, either with H or even within your own changes. That is good as long as you use it to avoid complacency but do not live in fear.

Would you be Willing to comment on what helped you most turn around the situation?I ask for newbies and not so new!

To be honest, I think the most important things had to do with H and with circumstances. H is at heart a very kind and loyal man. (So much so that I worry he is just stuffing down his feelings and things haven't improved as much from his perspective as I think.)

In terms of circumstances, our M had a lot of strengths along with the major libido issue, so there was a lot to build on. And I clued in relatively early--before H had made a decision to leave. There was no A.

The things that helped me most were immediately seeking an IC, GAL, and figuring out that the detachment I needed was not of the "treat him like a neighbor" variety. Also, stopping R talks and finding things we could do together that didn't tempt us to talk about the R.

Really though, I don't have all the answers. I feel lucky.

[EDF]

Glad so many things seem to be moving in a positive direction Rose!

Your recent posts/sitch kinda struck a chord with me, because I find myself kind of on the other side where my W is generally doing more to try and meet my touch/intimacy needs, but I have a lot of concerns over how serious she is, and whether it will last.

It sounds like you're really putting effort into initiating, flirting, being responsive, etc and certainly that's critical.

Can't guarantee your H is having the same thoughts I am, but wanted to share my own personal (possibly flawed, probably selfish) thinking from my current struggles just in case any of it was helpful or gives another perspective.

I don't have any great insights on maintaining/improving libido, or convincing your H that your libido is improved, but really I wonder if libido is a bit of a red herring. (Certainly your needs being met is hugely important, and a very worthwhile long-term project for the two of you, but right now I'm just focusing on the short-term)

At the base level, what I really desire is to know that my W wants to please me, and that she will continue to want to please me. Her having a raging libido would be one way to guarantee that, but I know she has the lower libido so relying on her being in the mood seems like a very shaky long-term proposition. So maybe don't worry too much over trying to convince your H that your libido or desire for sex has improved, but instead try to show him that your desire to do what it takes to please *him* has improved. I think the latter might be easier for H to trust.

Men, sexually, are pretty straight forward. It's like a button where a few minutes of effort can make the man feel incredible. From my personal male "all about me" perspective, why doesn't my wife want to push that button all the time? Even if my W isn't in the mood, or is busy, or whatever... there are a lot of creative ways to push the button. If my wife had a button like that, I would be pounding it constantly... just seems like a no-brainer.

So maybe show your husband that your libido/arousal isn't a limiting factor, you just really appreciate him and like pushing his button because of how it makes him feel.

[AndrewP]

Rose888 - I just wanted to stop by and say "thanks" for the visit on my thread. As I'm sure you can understand I'm in a pretty fragile place and perhaps reacted poorly to your well-meant comments.

I will confess that prior to this visit I hadn't checked out your own sitch and might (or might not) perhaps have some helpful observations. My W and I are almost 10 years older than you and other than the heady days when we first me have pretty much always had a - shall we say - subdued sex life. Not by my choice. I had accepted this because of the love and devotion I had for my W and she for me. I'm glad that this is a relatively anonymous forum and I hope you aren't too delicate because I'm going to go into some details. We had come to an "agreement" in our late 20s that I would stop pestering her for sex several times a week and she would agree to once a week on Sunday mornings. Sometimes it would happen more often but at least for me it meant that there was a time I could ask and not be rudely rejected. Given how the "calendar" works and other issues certainly not every Sunday was taken advantage of. Another factor was that my W wasn't interested in sex (I think there are some deeper irrelevant to your sitch issues around that). Other than in certain positions she was practically never able to achieve orgasm and those positions (her on top) got increasingly difficult and painful for her as the years passed and honestly I don't think it was worth the effort for her so she would mostly just lay there and "do the duty". I would do my d@mndest within the limits of what she would allow to help her achieve orgasm but even when she would let me try 80% of the time it failed.

Your H is probably terrified of getting older and losing the ability to "perform". Because of weight issues and a tendency to drink a bit too much pre BD (weight is now way down and beer consumption minimal) over time my ability to "get to the finish line" had diminished over time. In recent years W and I would joke about me getting a "participation ribbon" for trying. Around this time thankfully W started putting more effort into her part to get me aroused but not really a lot.

If I had been asked how I described my sex life with W for the last 20+ years - I would have to say "barely adequate". I have never talked to W about this and the way things are going, probably never will.

How did I manage to retain my desire for W despite the lack of sexual gratification? I openly acknowledged to her that sex was a way of her "binding" me to her and we both knew that a couple of weeks without and I would be grumpy and less agreeable to her wishes. Scary to think that it's been 4 months now. I think a lot of it was her ability to be charming and loving in other ways. There were regular "I Love Yous", we would always walk hand in hand, hugs, casual kisses and touches as we passed by each other - I'm starting to cry now - sorry. I would also compensate through masturbation mid-week and on Saturday morning so that I wouldn't be too eager and have the job finished too quickly. I would sometimes use porn to assist me in getting interested in that.

One thing that was a major issue for me and may well be for your husband as well was my inability to bring my W to orgasm. Core to my belief in myself as a virile man was the need to sexually satisfy her and it always made me feel low that I couldn't. That might be part of the issue with you and your H. He perhaps doesn't feel that he's doing good enough or that you're not trying hard enough because you don't cross the finish line. My W was able to reassure me very early on that it wasn't a problem for her and that she just enjoyed being there for me. I always did keep trying though. Since W had a poor body image and was rather a prude she wasn't open to much if any experimenting. The fact that the positions that did work were painful for her made me reluctant to ask.

As a side note - on BD2 - not only did I lose my appetite (and a lot of weight) but I also became impotent. Both appetites have returned somewhat but it's still at a very low ebb - certainly an issue for the fragile male ego.

Anyway - just some things to think about from the other side of the fence from a man who was deeply in love with a woman who was poorly able to sexually satisfy him. You've mentioned being open to new ideas - most of which are around the sex act itself. Perhaps think of other ways to please him that don't involve you getting across the same finish line. I know that I could wear my "participation ribbon" with pride.

P.S. - you mentioned having to do the forums on your tablet or phone. You may want consider investing in an inexpensive Bluetooth keyboard. It will make your life easier for both this and other activities such as emailing and Facebook.

Hugs

PPS - irrelevant perhaps - Yes this is the same W who is a WW and from the evidence I found was very sexually stimulated by OM at least at the beginning of the A. She was also very sexually stimulated by me at the beginning of our R or when she really wanted something (the house we are in and our second child are two examples). I recognized early on the look of triumph and power she had on her face after sex especially when she thought she had done a particularly good job. One of the many blows to my ego is that she is being sexually satisfied by another man in ways that I could not.

[ForGump]

Rose888 -- just a tech tip: you said you shared your computer w/ kids. You could create a separate account with its own login & password for yourself, and just be sure to log out when you're done. If you google "create a user account Windows" (or Mac), there should be many tutorials. HTH.

[ForGump]

Could you give me a sense of how different your & your H's libido were? For example, he'd like to do it every night and you're more like once a month?

Also, maybe your drive is very much attached subconsciously to your H's behavior. Is he a good partner in other ways? Does it do his fair share of housework and child-rearing?