Detaching to reconnect

[Surfer]

New thread.

last one
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2690993#Post2690993

It's 2 more sleeps until the kids are back.......really looking forward to seeing them. Don't really want to see my W TBH. When I say that, I don't mean I wouldn't love for that person I loved to walk through the door. But I truly don't feel very much for my WW at all at present. That's a little bit scary TBH, I feel that I am losing my love for her in some ways, but I think deep down it would only take a little piece of honest, constant kindnesses for me to feel those feelings once more. Smiling, being kind, touching, laughing and talking. I do miss that person, but, I have to admit she is gone. Hopefully not for good.

I have been thinking about the possibility of being with someone else later on in life also. I don't want this and certainly not right now, but I know it is possible and I can face that if I need to. I don't want to think about it right now though as its a little traumatic. I still really want that family unit back if it can work at all. But if it can't, it can't. I think like many here, we loved our family unit (even if there are no kids) and we build ourselves around it. That is why detaching has to take time and be done carefully I guess. It's like taking some intermeshed roots from between 2 close trees so you can separate them if you need to. If you don't need to their roots can grow together again and perhaps this time the roots won't restrict each tree so much, they will grow together better without over dominance from one over the other.

I have been reading some really detailed posts by Wonka, Sandi, CT and others lately. the psychology of all of this (relationship problems) is very interesting. Don't get me wrong, I would rather be totally ignorant and happy in a stable and loving relationship. However, it is interesting. Some people get so detailed in their understanding and I have to take my hat off to them. It's very impressive how much they understand. I tend to have to distill things down to core basics though, I must be a bit simple like that. Nevertheless, I think I am starting to get to understand things a lot better and am coping much better. For example, I don't seem to be 'cycling' very much at all now. Those dark days, wow, I don't know how you get the strength. You just somehow do though.

I was reading about the difference between MLC, WS and WAS with interest - trying to really understand. I think lots of people need to do the same. I needed to because I think logically there is a need to define the problem. If you can't define it you don't know how to react to it. In our R there are 2 problems - my W and I. It is the same in 99.99% of R's I think. I know that you have to work on you, really work and really close out your part of the deal. I am going to focus more on that now I am feeling more secure in me. Back to my point (understanding) - I think that the difference is key and whilst I have read Sandi's posts in particular, lots, I guess I kept wanting to hope my wife was MLC - perhaps as I didn't want to think she resented me or was rebellious and disrespectful or that she could have had an A. The truth is, she has been and is disrespectful etc. So she is a WW. I do still struggle with the EA PA side of things though as I really expect that there has been nothing physical. The EA was only 3 months long and then a quick 1-2 week burst so even that - I mean, really? You can get over that. But it's the wayward behaviour that needs to change. At the core - now for the WS that is a massive problem. I think the WS is already detached - infact their roots are intertwined with their wayward life now (another man/woman, girlfriends, a sport, guys down the bar etc). They can't reconnect with you and your roots until they pull their roots away from their wayward influences. But they have to be motivated to do that by themselves. This is why Sandi is right. There needs to be some loss or shock. My W is slowly realising that she does not 'look to be coming out smelling of roses'. I am now just in watching mode as I continue to detach.

Again, going back to my core point, understanding the position is very important. The status that you're S holds defines how are you react. I have now concluded and accepted that my W is wayward. I know therefore how to react. Sandi, and others, have made it abundently clear.

But why is my W wayward? In fact, whilst the relationship with OM totally rocked me to the core, this is actually understandable. She felt like I was not there, and to some degree that is true - at least not in the way she expected me to be. However, I think she had unreasonable expectations - as recently discussed between CT1118 and Wonka.

The other things that are clear are dishonesty, disrespect, rebellion, resentment etc.

From credit card debts to hiding things. This might range from pre-agreed nights out with the girls, that 'just happen to be tomorrow', or holidays (with the girls) when someone has just dropped out (last minute again) to hiding a relationship with an OM. There may be or have been other men I guess also IDK (but I doubt it). I think a really obvious sign of this kind of behaviour that I see time and time again is passwords on phones. I will definitely never have a relationship again with someone that is not comfortable with me having the password to their phone. I will give them mine too - it has to work both ways. I bet there are so few people here that are not piecing or reconciled that are open enough to allow full access to phones.

The other things I saw when trawling through my W's texts and emails etc (back in the dark days), which I still get angry at, was the contempt she had for me. When I continued to love her and our M - even though times were hard. The text spew - 'you will never guess what he's done now' often something without malice on my side that was built into 'a story' for wh W's purpose (Hans Christian Anderson is like a gutter press journalist in comparison). Her 'friends' would enter a feeding frenzy over this sort of stuff. The things I got called, the utter disrespect was appalling. Not once did I see my W say, hang on a bit, that's going a bit far - we are having a hard time and I need to stop this and actually, it's okay for me to say these things but he is still my husband and he is struggling too. Me, I have friends that listen, don't guide, don't call my W. The only exception to this was a very close friend who went totally too far in describing what he thought of my wife (in fairness he had a point) - before I knew it I had his throat in my hand. I obviously apologised and as he is a friend, he understood. I really regret that, it was over in a second, but at least he saw that I still loved her despite the terrible anguish she was putting me and the children through.

Wow, waffling big time here!

I think I understand the way girlfriends (guys friends too) can be very dangerous to relationships. I have seen a few alarming things:

- My W wanted to bond with others over her resentment towards me. This is validation to a WS I guess (particularly ladies - guys know guys are just not interested in this stuff). From a WS perspective they can spill bile and the recipient agrees and joins in. Therefore the WS's nasty words and ways are considered correct and acceptable. My W attempted this with my friends W. After all these problems came out my friends W told me about this and said how everyone moans about their S, but there was something far too dark that she had to back away from in what my W was saying. She said she couldn't speak about her H in the way my W was me. If my W had been allowed to continue, they would have bonded over this, I would have become the common enemy.

- My W's friends facilitate spew. They do it by validating using horrible language. Not just by using the foulest word you can think of as my name! I have seen it (would pull a friend up if they disrespected my W in that way) but also by using language that is devisive. Encouraging my W to do wayward things. So when she has said, 'my H won't want me to do that (go on holiday again with them, do something yet again which is not family based etc)', they are very quick to say 'he is not your Dad', 'he can't tell you what to do'. I have seen this and so much worse. What they should be saying IMO is, 'you need to do whatever is right for you, your kids and you M. If we can't all spend time together, as often as WE would like, so be it. We are still here for you. After all, we are all in our 40s with kids, we are not 21 anymore.' It would just never happen.

- My wives friends disrespect their H's. This may be a facade ie if called out they may not be so brave. But again, I saw texts ranging from one girl saying she was going to do this, that and then may leave her H - never did. Another saying, oh no I think he's seen my texts....Others saying 'I'm not going to tell him yet, I'll wait until I can get it past him'. All this sort of behaviour is that of a rebellious teenager.

- My wife's friends validate the rewritten history. I understand that the WS rewrites history because there is a decision made. It involves the WS breaking up the family through their actions. First it starts as feelings (feeling alone, unheard, upset, sad, anger, rage, resentment etc) then it becomes an action. They make their move. But all the way through this process they create a story - rewritten history or things that are just untrue. My wife's friends latched onto her comments that 'he's never been there for me' (rewritten history - err hello? incredible financial support, great dad, there for everything from kids births, funerals, nappy changing, bedtime stories to emotional support through all sorts - I'm not perfect, but I am nothing but a normal decent chap). They not only latched on they added poison by saying 'the sad thing is he has probably never really been there over the last 20 years, perhaps you just hope he was'!!.

There are lots of other examples of this kind of behaviour. I might am going to summarise this rant to get my head around it at some point but not right now, got lots to do.




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[Surfer]

ForGump. Apologies. Sadly not. It came from an old CB name. You know what it's like when you come up with usernames......are you really Forrest Gump BTW ha ha. See what I mean?

Hope you are doing okay. Will pop over to your thread later.

[AndrewP]

Surfer - I hear you about your personal reputation being ruined by your W. When I confronted my W about this early on her response was to look guilty and say "we all do it". I came across it when doing my initial snooping that found OM and then shut down looking. It's one of those things that will drive you mad if you keep looking at it.

My own W had around her a similar echo chamber of "friends" who would encourage her from their own safe places and I don't know if she would have gone so far down the rabbit hole without that noise or constant encouragement from them.

For me I have been working at being out and about in the community and connecting / reconnecting with people in part to GAL independent of W and in part to rehabilitate my reputation. I've been very grateful for the kindness that I feel from many. I occasionally run into the "echo chambers" and make an extra effort to be cheerful around them but mostly they seem to be avoiding me.

Good luck - focus on yourself and building your own connections and know that you can't control what your W says or what gets echoed back out. Personally I like to think that W's "friends" are perhaps jealous of how I've stood by her despite everything she's done. I believe that one of the big conflicts for W herself is that I've not followed the script she has written and kicked her out or cheated myself but instead treated her with respect, kindness and courtesy.

[sandi2]

It must be painfully difficult to face the truth about your W. Perhaps this post where you have described her inappropriate behavior and the bond with these other WW's, will help those who read it. It is true that some women can influence and encourage wayward behavior.....if one W is full of contempt for her H. It starts out with a complaint from your W (for example), and the friend tells her how she should feel toward you, and proceeds to cut H down. She encourages rebellion by saying things like, "He can't tell you what to do". It becomes a male bashing session when they talk, and the bad attitude for the H grows and grows.

Thankfully, not all female friends are down on their H's, and offer good encouragement and wholesome advice.

[Surfer]

Thanks AndrewP. I hear you about not following their script and I personally make sure I don't fall for any opportunity to provide ammo for her weapons here. I think this should hopefully help the WS realise that their story ultimately proves itself to be untrue and there the LBS can be seen as the one with the integrity, not the fault alleged. My WW has recently referred to feeling like the leper - unjustifiably from her standpoint. I find this recent comment interesting, but that's about it.

I presume your Ws 'friends' still have he same involvement in her life?

[AndrewP]

My WW has recently referred to feeling like the leper - unjustifiably from her standpoint. I find this recent comment interesting, but that's about it.

I presume your Ws 'friends' still have he same involvement in her life?

Surfer - I believe that my WW has managed (somehow) to keep her A mostly secret from the community. OM lives an hour away and from what I've gathered she goes to him most of the time. In my snooping that caused BD2 I saw her "friends" consoling W after she had gotten drunk at a party and was bragging about OM that the people she told were "mean" to her. Just before she left she expressed horror that if I filed for D that her A would become public knowledge so she's very much afraid of the "leper" possibility.

I'm not sure where my WW is right now wrt her friends - hence the long, rambling recnt post on my own thread. For a bit of context this is my "understanding" of recent events (could be wrong at parts). I have no idea if this pattern is part of the "standard script" or not:
- 22-Jun - WW on top of the world feeling unconditional love and support from friends including supporting her moving out. Noisy on social media / texting.
- 23-Jun - I give her a letter asking for her to either reconcile or that I would investigate filing on my own.
- Dramatic increase in texting / messaging at all hours of the day and night. Social media posts get filled with angst.
- WW forms closer ties with more "respectable" members of the community.
- Early/Mid Jul - "best friend" bails on W when she tries to rely on her for a place to stay.
- 23-Jul - WW moves out "to get away from the noise". Posts from "friends" on social media go unanswered.
- Social media dries up (I un-follow to help stop mind-reading the little that happens but my two SIL lurk).
- The two posts that WW makes do not get any attention from past "friends" even though the last one is an obvious cry for help, support and love.

So - to answer your question - I don't know but it would appear that my WW has severed contact with the echo chamber ensemble which is a huge relief for me. Even though she herself has admitted "it's all on me" she may recognize the reinforcing of her decisions by those "friends". Now I just hope that she'll be able to figure out what she wants to do in a reasonable amount of time while I wander around limbo.

Does that help? The biggest part of this rambling post is her shock when she found out that she couldn't count on them and perhaps felt betrayed.

[AndrewP]

She encourages rebellion by saying things like, "He can't tell you what to do". It becomes a male bashing session when they talk, and the bad attitude for the H grows and grows.

Not to disagree with you sandi2 (I'm not worthy! I'm not worthy! - bonus points if you get the reference) but I think that the most dangerous words that came out of those afternoons of W drinking wine with her "friends" have also been said to me lots and lots of time.

"You can do better." and "He doesn't deserve you"

[Cherry]

Ooh I SO agree on the poisonous, evil, vicious human beings that are their "friends".
H's friends who he has told about us have such a blasé approach of "oh just divorce her" making me feel like some mail order goods, hmm the fit isn't quite right on this one, let's just box her up and get a new one....

THEN the ultimate champ, the high skankess herself, the ow. And I quote: "it's no big deal, if I was you I'd just leave her. Better to do that than show your kid a disfunctional relationship. People start again all the time".

Man, even typing that makes my blood boil. I could be the bigger person, but nah, I hope karma comes and bites her in the a$$ for that one!!

So yes, in short. The WAS/WS have an army of d**ks who just happily throw gasoline and a few grenades onto the fire!

This is part of the reason why the people I've told, the very few, are people who give me advise focused on me and my child. My best friend, although angered by his behaviour hasn't leapt at a chance to bash my h. She's just focused on me and making sure I'm functioning, eating, breathing and caring for my child. I don't need to hear that his behaviour is revolting right now, I don't need to hear that he's being a jerk. Belieeeeeve me, I'm a smart girl- I know that.

[Surfer]

OK - firstly, is this my thread? Ha ha. Been hopping around on other threads. Got a bit lost

Secondly. WW just landed got a text:

"Landed safe and sound. Will let you know when the kids wake in the morning."

Nothing whilst a whole 10 days away. But I have lived and loved my freedom.

Still separate houses but hey. Also have a young lady I used to work with texting me who is stunning - inside and out. Not going there. I am 'SWITCHED OFF' to that. BUT it is flattering and kind so I am kind back. Nothing but responding, but it's undeniably nice.

I was told by our joint C that someone made me feel unlovable "awww" I hear you say. Guess what it WAS true. Surprised at the comment at the time. I don't feel that now. I know why I did too. I am starting to love me again. It's not through this lovely lady's kind words. It's because I can see ME again.

Went out with a fantastic female friend and others for dinner and drinks last night. Nothing too late (for me - they stayed on) but she said how she was pleased she could SEE me again. As in I am becoming ME. I like me.

Guys. Detach, GAL - find YOU. You will LOVE YOU. That's the start.

Onwards and upwards.

Surfer.

[Surfer]

Update. Kids are back. They look great. They are - because they are at least 50% me!!!! Ha Ha. We are all happy. Why am I writing this. Because, if you are in a dark place, you are living together or S and you are going through unimaginable pain - I want you to know that I am happy, very happy. Why would I want to tell you this? Because I felt like you feel, only a few weeks ago, possibly a lot worse, definitely no more than a few months. I promise you that at times I have really felt like I could end it all (lets not forget my issues go back 7 years (spew etc for 7 years solid). No drama - I did feel like I could end it. If I could travel in time to that scared person I would just show them my smile as I type and say it will all be okay. You will be okay. You will be happy. Really happy. Do you want to be happy this week or next year or in 7 years time?

When down, I have not been able to get out of bed, I have felt like I am losing my mind as the sand that is everything I hold honest, valuable and true slips through my fingers. I feared for my kids, my W, me, everyone. Why? Because I was trapped in my own fear. I am now free of that.

You remember that auto response Cadet sent you, Sandi's Rules etc. Remember that word - "DETACH". That is the key to you being happy. Then GAL with the time you have - it really is a gift from your S. You can do it. Focus and detach. Get your S out of your head. They are a tenant in your property, and not only are they paying no rent, they are smashing the place up! Time to evict them. Get them out of your head now and detach.