Some stuff I didn't think of to add, figured I should for others who might be interested.
Living on my own, I admit I was scared to death to try. It QUICKLY turned into WANTING to do things myself. If my mom or GF are over, I find myself trying to take care of the cooking myself, even if they try to help. I like to do the laundry myself. I spend a fair amount of time mowing grass trying to get it looking like a yard again after xW didn't mow it all summer. When with the kids, I am fine with it being just the 3 of us.
One challenge with the kids, S11 and D9 like to do different things, and need to compromise more often. S11 is fine doing things alone, D9 is not.... which leads to S11 doing things alone a lot and D9 getting my attention more. It's not really fair to S11, so I correct it as much as possible. When with xW, S11 would get more attention from me than D9, so it is somewhat evening out.
My feelings for xW are NOT gone. Maybe they will never be. She was a good wife, and a good mother. That person is gone. But it still haunts me, what if she comes out of her.... whatever she is going through.... and wants to come back? She has caused so much hurt in the last 9 months, I don't think I would ever forgive her for it, I know I would never forget. She has to know she gave up on a wonderful marriage, right? She has to know what she is doing is wrong?
I am guessing about another thing here.... that someone is telling xW what is "typical" of an abusive man. For each item that she is told, she adds it to her list of things I have done to her. Not things I really did, things she THINKS I did. I KNOW who I was in the M. I was kind, open, loving, supportive of her in every way. Yep, I got upset when she repeatedly did things, like overspending, sitting on the couch all day, saying things about me that didn't make sense, twisting things I said. I was possibly too demanding at times. My standards for her were high, but I also told her that it was because I KNEW she could do better, and it seemed to actually help build her up. My R with GF is proving who "I" am, I am exactly who I thought I was. xW's perception of me, I am guessing is based entirely on her past R's, including her parents.
Yesterday I was looking for a text from July 2015. I overheard xW bad-mouthing me to the kids, confronted her in text messages, she denied it. When looking for those texts, I accidentally went back to July 2014 and found a couple interesting ones.
xW: So are you getting turned on with what I am wearing? We won't have kids tonight so don't make any plans unless it involves something sexual with me.
Me: I had dream the other night that I made a joke about sex, and you turned me down, I assumed in the dream it was because of the time of the month. Odd thing to dream about, I even get denied in my dreams.
xW: I keep thinking the reason you don't want to go anywhere with me is because you are embarrassed to be seen with me. Maybe you have a girl on the side that you don't want to run into? These are things I worry about. My monthly just got done, so I was excited to spend quality time with you. Now seems like you aren't interested? No idea what you are thinking you don't talk much to me.
Me: I thought you'd be able to tell by my actions that I do have an interest.
xW: OK, I agree you are showing interest, your right
So... I read this yesterday, and yet again thought "WTF??"
1. What made her think I didn't have an interest in HER? I didn't say anything like that, I just shared a dream. She knew I couldn't keep my hands off of her, I would grab her butt a couple times a day, I would hug her and tell her I loved her every morning and every night, and as often as I could during the day.
2. Note how quickly it swapped to her insecurities, and then to "crazy land" accusations, and quickly back again. All within one text message. Is it any wonder why I was confused every day?
3. And then the last text is to deny she doubted me in the first place?
4. How did it fit in that I didn't talk to her much? Maybe I didn't talk to her because I was simply confused so often.
Questions: - WHY do I miss her? - What do I need to learn from this to use for future R's? - How do I deal with her moving forward? We need to coparent, but she is sooo bitter!!
I can't answer your question, but I can sympathize with you.
My wife had been going to IC for three years for issues related to childhood sexual abuse. Our MC (now my IC) knows my wife's IC, and evidently, my wife's IC is not really qualified for the treatment of psychological disorders of type that my wife suffers from. However, my wife's IC had been married to a narcissist (she's now divorced) and she specializes in helping women with their narcissistic and psychopathic husbands. Guess what I am? I'm either a narcissistic psychopath or psychopathic narcissist.
Our MC did tell my wife that I'm neither a psychopath nor a narcissist, but did that make any difference? H3ll no!
New subject, the new GF. I am putting way too much of my brainpower into the D, issues with xW. When not doing that, I contemplate the R with the new GF.
We started texting in April, but very little. More in May. First time seeing each other in person was June 10th. First kiss, July 3rd. First time talking about getting married.... May! Yep, you read that right. Well, out of context of course. In April I said I didn't want to get M'd again. She didn't want to start a R with someone who didn't want to get M'd, so it came up in May. Of course I caved immediately, some pretty strong boundaries I have, LOL. She says she won't move in with me until we are M'd. I want her to move in, so I agreed. She's been ring shopping, sending me ideas. The reason I agreed, if we are going to live together anyway, I guess it's going to be pretty similar. If she is going to sell her house and dump the equity into mine, it is only fair that it is also legal. It's not official, but I have asked her what she will say when I ask her, and she has said that she will say yes.
So, everyone is going to ask why it is moving so fast. I am sure Lady V or SH or SadSara or Zephyr or someone will chime in shortly with a 2x4. GF's family is supportive of the decision, she is slowly releasing info to them. Her D17 and D19 are helping with picking out the rings. My family will be supportive, not sure about my mom yet.
My last M was quick also... xW and I were dating for a few months, but only spent a few days actually together before getting M'd. It didn't work out... or did it? I am pretty sure even with xW, if we hadn't gotten M'd right away, we would have eventually anyway.
There are 3 hold-ups with proceeding quickly with GF.
1. My kids. GF loves my kids. D9 loves GF. D9 loves GF's D17. S11, I'm not sure, so I'm testing things slowly and talking to him about his comfort level. He has felt safe sharing with me that he would rather GF not spend the night on 2 occasions, so I am concerned and being careful of his feelings. Otherwise he seems quite comfortable around GF.
2. xW. She is bitter, and it is going to get worse the more she hears about GF from the kids. I believe she is already trying to dig up dirt on GF, luckily she isn't going to find anything, at least nothing that is true. But I don't put it past xW to lie, xW has sure lied about me plenty of times lately. I also worry xW will start saying bad things about GF to the kids, that would make a mess of things! I told the kids that if anyone says anything to them negative about GF, to not believe it.
3. Me. I am second guessing the direction/speed like crazy the last few days, even though it feels so right when with GF. I think the only reason I am slowing things down is concern about what other people think. WHY? Should it matter what other people think? Or should I do what I think is best for me? Being with GF feels like what is best for me.
I wonder about some things about GF... guess I'll throw it out here for input. She is very sexual... ironic being she is a church-goer. Well, xW was very sexual also, but she wasn't trying to come across as a good girl. I wonder with both of them if they are/were trying to compensate for something. With xW, sex seemed like the one time where we connected 100%. I also think xW did things to please others, especially me (and believe me, I was pleased!). But xW also had her own ideas. GF, her ex was non-affectionate, and sex was how she received affection. And of course GF had ideas of her own. Both xW and GF seemed like a win-win for both of us. I don't mean to sound conceited, but I think I changed the game for both xW and GF: affection, love, attention on their needs and what makes them feel good, but slow to allow attention on the emotional connection the whole time... that is how I returned the favor. And it pays itself back many times over when I receive an email like the one I got this morning from GF:
"I love you babe! What I wanted to text you this morning is "Thank you". Thank you for being so gentle and slow with me when we're together. Being with you has healed something deep inside of me that I can't really explain. I just know that when I'm with you, I feel safe and whole. Like I'm exactly where I have always meant to be."
My only concern... xW came into the M damaged, possible past r@pe, promiscuous past, etc. Now GF sounds like she is using me to heal something about herself (having been cheated on repeatedly during her M??) Maybe healing isn't the correct word GF should have used... maybe it is "learning" that there is someone who loves her for her, and truly cares about her needs, and it is just a new experience. I like being the guy to give her that experience.
I can't answer your question, but I can sympathize with you....
Thank you... Yeah, I didn't think I was the only one. It does help to know that I'm not the only one, but only a little bit. I'm sure, like me, you'd rather not be on the list of people who know what it's like.
I haven't taken time to keep up on other people's threads... working on that a little today, I'll try to get over to yours also.
OFP, your instincts are keen. please allow yourself to keep a handle on them with your new girlfriend.
yes, she could have something going on in her past. you just have not had enough time with her to know. there are many many men and women that ive interacted with, who after a long Codependent or abusive relationship, end up in another one shortly thereafter.
I have no idea if this woman you are falling for is damaged, neither do you. you just don't have the time in with her to know. and quite frankly I do not believe you have changed your core to a point where you will prevent another possible Codependent relationship from developing if there were deep issues with her.
it is one thing to read a book and say that we get it. it is quite another to start the healing that is imperative to be able to make those lasting changes for ourselves. creating those healthy boundaries to be able I maintain healthy relationships without losing our sense of self.
It is very important to continue to recognize this fact. if I were in a new, fresh relationship I don't believe I could recognized that subtleNess of manipulation yet. that is my honest take. her being able to meet my needs so perfectly, after starving for love and affection, desire and passion for so long.
seriously difficult to even comprehend putting boundaries in place, in an environment where this sharing and closeness feels so very right.
I am not talking about being vulnerable here, i am talking about being honest with yourself and taking all the time in the world to make sure you are safe and ready to give yourself to a healthy relationship. making sure you have healed and are truely loving yourself and not using this relationship to heal as opposed to doing the deep work on yourself to become whole. or her doing the same, using this relationship to soften her woulds.
if this woman does love you she will wait. she will want to understand and help you. she could even take your lead and start looking at herself and her wounds.
as always, I really want you to be happy. I really want you to be able to look in the mirror and smile everyday knowing you are the best you can be. i am only conveying caution here, you are worth that much and so much more.
I hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend, it is another scorcher here...time for more fun.
sorry so short, I am out of town and between engagements. have to get going.
I have read through your thread... I don't have anything to offer for thoughts, so I didn't post anything. I feel for you, and I can imagine that where you are at is probably where my M would have ended up if I stayed with my W (and if she hadn't thrown in the OFP grenade.) I hope you find total happiness somewhere, somehow.
I am curious where you have heard about all the new R's you refer to in your post? This forum or somewhere else, or stories you have heard in person?
I think the biggest issue for GF is her past relationships. She is fully able and willing to live on her own. She is strong and intelligent, and self sufficient. But she has never met anyone that truly wants her to be the best she can be... that is what I want for her, I get a hidden benefit, the better she feels about herself, the better she will be with me. There is no reason to want to change her. She doesn't want to change me. We compliment each other in every way, and balance each other even with our differences.
GF being willing to wait isn't an issue. She tells me she is ready whenever I am ready, she trusts me to decide when it is the right time for me, and for us. "I" am the one who is in a hurry.
I want to get on with my life. I want her to live with me sooner rather than later. As long as she has her own place, it is the gathering point for GF and her D17 and D19. As long as she has stuff there, it will reduce the amount of time she/they are at my house. As long as it remains the gathering point, GF has responsibilities there (laundry, cleaning, upkeep), reducing that time even more.
As long as she has her own place, we have double expenses. I have more than enough space for them.
Her D19 is staying with her own BF most of the time, and is completely moving out for college this fall. Her D17 said just last night she is ready to start moving her stuff to my place.
I feel a little stuck, my house is somewhat empty, and why would I buy a bunch of furniture, when GF will just be moving hers in at some point. Sure, we can resell hers or mine, but buying and selling takes time. I also don't have the available money right now.
GF said she won't move in with me until we are M'd. And I honestly can't blame her. She will be giving up a lot of her own security by selling her place and dumping the equity into mine, it wouldn't be fair to her.
I don't know what to think about the whole "codependent" issue. Are there R's that don't have any codependency? I'm sure there are. I'm sure those people are the same ones who are scared to death of commitment, or ones who would rather be alone then in a R, or would rather spend time with friends than a significant other. If that is what makes them happy, good for them.... hopefully their SO is in agreement, otherwise their R isn't going to last long either.
Where's the line between being best friends with your SO, and being dependent on them? If I were given a choice of someone who will be my best friend and SO, or someone who prefers to do their own thing all the time, I know which I will pick. Every time. No matter how long I am single. No matter how much I heal. I'm not going to heal "out of" wanting that, or accepting that because nothing else is available. I am envious of people who have the closeness, I wonder why some people are M'd at all when they do nothing together. I miss that closeness I had with xW. GF is similar, though definitely more independent than xW. Many people I have talked to have said they think all R's have some codependence.
So, I find myself living in fear again. Fear of a codependent relationship? Or fear of having one that does not have closeness? Fear of not understanding the difference? Or just plain fear of what other people think? That they will think I am codependent? Is this why I am entering into another serious R so soon? Or is lack of codependence the reason I
Google healthy detachment in relationships and review the info in the live strong link. This can provide you with a short clear picture of what is needed and why it is healthy to be in a relationship with a healthy detachment to avoid codepency. There is much information to aid you in your understanding of codependent relationships and how they are unhealthy emotionally and mentally.
I believe that the terms detachment and codependent are two misunderstood terms by so many. But there is a lot of info to help clarify them. Healthy detachment aids partners in relationships to avoid codependency. We have all heard that it is better that 2 whole individuals make a better relationship than 2 persons that need someone else to pick up their slack.
I am still researching and studying this to better understand it myself so hopefully this can give you something to start off with if you were looking for more about codependent relationships.
Me 46 Former W 46 D19 D7 BD Feb 2016 WAW moves out 4/16/16 D final 6/1/2017
It's time for me to start changin' the way I look at the world......and at myself. ~James Howlett aka Wolverine
SH has some good idea on healthy detachment there!
i am sorry that the term Codependent is overused around here. maybe i can be more succinct.
I genuinely believe there is healthy dependence / healthy attachment in a marriage that will last. what does that look like, It will be different for different couples.
as long as you are giving of yourself to the marriage or R and thay does not have a cost to your ethics, morals, worth or health that i think you are fine...AND...it goes for them too.
if there is a need to take care of someone, to satisfy you worth, that is not healthy. if there is a need to have someone by your side because you can't be alone, that is not healthy. when you continuously try to fix a person or make them want to be a better person...that is not healthy. subversive controllers and fixers riddle this board as well as many others. it is not healthy behavior.
as for the relationships I speak of. yes ive seen it in the real world and on other boards i post to. getting into multiple abusive relationships or those of alcoholic / drug using parners, onr after another, is well documented. matbe it is our deep need to help others that blinds us to the cost to ourselves. idk.
that is where working towards being whole and being able to detach from a situation are key.
please do not misunderstand my original post. I don't feel strongly about the dating or marriage thing as long as you are ready. you have clearly thought about this and are not going in with blinders on. I am so very glad for this. I realize how difficult this is and you may think that we are jumping on you for your choices.
i just warn caution as there are many people that will be affected, not just you and her. moving forward is fine...moving forward too fast we miss things that in retrospect could have been recognized.
