Hi -- I have been making progress on my own part however he's back and spinning out and sending me negative texts and emails which I don't respond to.
After three days of several negative texts/comments a day and blaming me for things I am not responsible -(I took responsibility for not getting the girls moving fast enough on my morning and took his morning today)
He wrote me more mean stuff today...
Finally I wrote this with the help of my sponsor:
"I get that you're really having a rough time right now. I do want to partner with you through this rough patch. When I am being accused and blamed I do not respond well, I shut down and stop responding. I can understand how it would seem like I don't care. But it is quite the opposite. It is the ONLY position left for me to take.
I'm happy to talk about ways we can be a team on finances, health and household organization, when we can do so in a positive manner.
I'm interested to give blood with you next time and I'd be interested to attend your endocrinologist appointment. I could listen and take notes for you if that would feel supportive and helpful. "
He wrote back this:
"The only rough time I am having is with you, and contrary to what you write you are not in anyway making it easy. Not sure if you're deluded or believe what you're writing but it doesn't matter at this point. You are unfortunately the main thing making my life unpleasant. I don't even mind my illness and I spent the day doing bureaucratic health care busy work on it. The problem I'm unhappy with whenever I'm around it is our relationship and it is not improving.
I absolutely understand the part you wrote about your not being able to act any other way than the way you are. That's fine for you to do but I can't live with you any more, it's too unpleasant, it [censored] all the air out of the room for me to be around your behavior.
This is very challenging to deal with. Let's get through as much as we can at 9. We have a lot of decisions to make together hopefully, in order to get through this unpleasantness. "
He keeps getting upset and saying we need to split up. That's fine but he never follows through he just backs off again. Saying I suck the air out of the room when I'm simply trying to avoid him is him describing himself. I could say "I know you are but what am I?" to everything he says if it wasn't so immature.
I don't want to talk to him if he's going to say un-civil things like that. I want him to cc someone he trusts because it's unacceptable for him to write or say so much mean stuff all the time.
How can I phrase it?
He wants to talk at 9pm tonight and I don't want to be around him.
OK Well I realized that I didn't want to be around him because I was afraid of the discomfort and that I had nothing to be afraid of because the worst isn't that bad - the breaking up or the chatising. We talked in much the same way until I got so agitated that I started to say things to hurt his feelings such as "my friend never wants to be around you again because of the way you behaved" and "you want an unconventional marriage because you're insecure and need women fawning over you but I don't, I want a conventional marriage so that's that." and when he told me I should prove to him how he could trust me I said - no I can't prove anything to you. And when I said I was too agitated was tired of all the fingers pointing at me and none at him and I didn't want to talk anymore he said "when you're calm you can come talk to me again." and I said "No when you have a positive clear request then come talk to ME - (tired of hearing everything you don't want and nothing you DO want. Such of "be loving" but not liking any examples of that.") then he texted that he could explain his health to me (he was saying I didn't care. I was saying that when he criticizes me in the same paragraph I can't hear anything else and I shut down) and then he texted that he would go to counseling with me.... not sure what that means. And he asked me to come out so he could explain his medical condition. So finally I went out and listened and took notes and asked questions. Then he asked if I wanted to watch tv. I said OK and we watched tv and then went to our own rooms. I guess it's partly that I'm afraid to be around him when he's critical and afraid I'll lose my temper in return. It's all such a power struggle. He didn't budge until I walked away and told HIM to come to ME when he had some positive clear constructive ideas. I'm still figuring out what my 180 is. I thought it was creating my own life away from him but I really need to focus on the children a lot and less on my own thing. Today my daughter asked me to read my own book next to her and I did.
The thing is are these lies or does your WH believe this stuff? I know if you read my threads you will see much of the same.sort of blaming, hating and ranting.
Real lies
So is that which is being said a knowing lie, in other words is xWH pinnocchio? Does his nose grow. If it does then it's deliberate and knowing designed to control.
1. Lies of omission: telling the truth but not the whole truth in a way designed to mislead. Such as I took the kids out today, unsaid and my mother babysat whilst I went drinking.
2. Not speaking up when asked a direct question or saying nothing much. What did you do today? Nothing much. Subtext I went gambling.
3. Making up facts that are not true. I bought my mother a new hat.
4. Embellishing the truth is a way that misleads. I fed the kids today meaning I bought sweets.
5. Insisting that a truth known to someone is a falsehood. My OW is in your head.
6. Gaslighting: an attempt to erode another's reality by denying their experience. I didn't go there, you are imagining it.
7. Acknowledging the truth but assigning motives that were never there to make yourself look betteR. You made me do it.
8. Keeping secrets for the wrong reasons. She is only a friend.
Unconscious Lies
Is lying to yourself.
1 Fantasy world- lives in fantasy land of his own choosing where he is wonderful, the world is wonderful, they are loved. And hey since you are truth darting then then you are threatening this cosy reality.
2. Believes feelings are facts. He is looking for a fact to fit his feeling. He feels angry therefore x must be true. Feelings aren't a great basis for judgement. Just because one feels sad, or angry or disgusted doesn't make what it is so. Infantile peeps operate from feelings to fact. If they feel an emotion then it is so. So moving from you are the greatest to you are the pits is allowing feelings to split behaviour.
3. No grey its all black and white. These types move from you are a goddess to you are a Harriden depending on how they feel. There is little grey area in between.
4. Find evidence that fits. They may lie and then come to believe the lie finding evidence that fits it, being validated by others. Even to the extent of viewing pictures or hearing recordings and not understanding what it means when called out in court. When real evidence shows something is a lie then it backfires because there is loss of face. This is why recordings and paperwork are so important. It's Intel to support facts. Lies are often to avoid the adverse effects, such as my wallet was stolen when really I went gambling.
5. All image that makes them happy. They maintain an image, such as I am a qualified lawyer when in actual fact I was an assistant to a court usher for 2 months.
6. They are infallible. So it is about me me me. Because really their message to themselves is 'I don't think I am good enough as I am with all my flaws.'
So why do they do it? Rant, blame and get angry?
It's because their image is all they have, there is nothing inside of them. And once you know and can not unknow, they can't bear it. They need to be and have the best. They can flash their new R on FB and not know they are being laughed at.
I used to say V don't trigger WH, if you validate are keen, walk on egg shells, subjugate, take it, work on you. Then it will be ok. And you know, it validated WH view of me and I came to believe it. The day I said I will not be abused, ranted at and lied to was the day I set boundaries. So the truth as I see it is, liars lie, waywards lie and sometimes they do it to themselves to keep their image.
So good for you my lovely one, you are starting to spell break.
There may be a shattering or a grand finale. A final storm, take great care, these are dangerous times. Once you let go then WH will be angrier than you have ever known.
I say this often, record, keep Intel and stay safe.
Healing is possible with a whole lot of hard work, but its a long way to self for empty vessels.
Just my thoughts
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
1. I'm not ready to leave. 2. I'm holding on to the hope that the good stuff will overtake the bad and things will tip again. 3. I think he starts to believe his schtick, he looks for "facts" or distorts reality to support his feelings. The other night he said I wasn't loving the way I used to be. Why would I be loving? I'm not a masochist. And I still am. I know the truth, the spell is broken to that degree but not broken to the degree that I think I should leave. 4. Because I'm slightly submissive he sees what can get away with. But I'm never able to use the submissiveness to remain calm - I lose my temper. So I continue to set boundaries. When he said he wanted an unconventional relationship - I said what do you mean? He said make some suggestions. I said, why would I? I want a conventional marriage. There's a universe of unconventional. Ask for what you want in a clear, positive and concise way. I keep saying that. I keep saying I'm not a mind reader and I can't begin to do anything you want without knowing what it is so if YOU want something YOU can ask in a POSITiVE way but you need to STOP your negative texts, it's NOT OK. Then I stormed off and he then said OK I'll go to counseling with you if you want. And let me explain medical stuff to you calmly. And then he wanted to watch our show together. So it's a reprieve from the bullshit. I'm trying to remain focused on me and setting boundaries and not being afraid of his opinion.
That's the best i can do for now.
One thing is that I get jealous and saw there was a restaurant lunch on our calendar online that we can both see. He wouldn't put something inappropriate on that calendar right? And if he did and someone "steals" him away then I can just thank them.
Oh, yeah, he most certainly could and most likely did put that lunch on the calendar so that you would see it and then have a jealous meltdown over it. I hate to say this...he's not going anywhere because he's sitting right where he is and his main objective is to have you jump thru hoops.
He continues to talk about splitting up because he wants you to pretzel yourself, jump thru hoops for him and guess what...no matter what you do or say, it will never be enough for him.
Chippie, does your h ever speak highly of you to others? Does he ever speak in a positive way to you? I may be wrong, but I'm getting that he enjoys beating you down w/negativity. That's not good for your self esteem.
And...this is the husband that you want to purchse a home with at this time? I don't see where your situation is getting any better for you. I do hope that you are finding outlets to release your frustrations on. I do hope that things work out for you, but it's going to be a long time coming if the both of you aren't in therapy and trying to understand how you got to where you are today.
Please take are of yourself. I'm very concerned about your well being and safety.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I've gotten reports that he beams when he talks about what I'm doing for work right now.
The last few days he has made me cappucino in the morning with a heart shape on the top. He had stopped the hearts for awhile then stopped the morning coffees then resumed the coffee and now added the hearts back onto them...
He shared with me about his medical issues - one thing that will help his high blood pressure is drinking more water so I made a large jar with times on it and have been bringing him water and he's been expressing appreciations about that.
He said he wants to extend working on our relationship for six months though he's not hopeful. He says he's willing to go on dates and willing to do counseling if I find someone. I'm going to look into who we can see. A DB coach? There's also marriage fitness workshops through a guy named Mort Fertel who has received some acclaim.
He puts the job of finding a counselor on me, he DOES want me to jump through hoops for him.
We plan our weekends and they always include family activities for the entire weekend and family dinners every weekday night - actually all 7 days.
The house we are closing could have a small apartment into it. Rentals are very difficult and whether together or separate we need to find a way to keep costs down.
My Physical safety doesn't seem threatened. It's my sanity for sure. I will have to make my own decisions.
Is my situation alarmingly worse the the other divorces that have been "busted" through this message? I think Vanilla said that it doesn't work out after the bomb drop - but I thought the DB plan is about busting divorces. I'm interested in folks perspectives.
It came out that the lunch was with a male co-worker. He was complaining that he insisted on having lunch and then told him an idea that was originating from my co-worker. I think he won't put anything secret on there. When he was in nyc he didn't put his plans on there.... I still saw the bank expenditures and heard from relatives when they met.
I don't think he's having an affair. I don't know if he's ever cheated. It doesn't seem to matter though - what matters is how he treats me going forward.
I need to do some writing - and come up with my minimum standards for treatment and a life together and if he agrees to them great and if not then that's it. It will be things like:
100% faithfullness Treat me the way he wants to be treated no shaming, blaming complaining Ask for what he wants in a clear positive way Trade off planning mystery dates...
He's still not doing that and yet I heard him tell the girls to do that this morning. They were complaining about what they DIDN'T want for dinner. So he understands the concept!
And I need to make plans for my single life so I'm not having to do it all at once when or if the time comes. I've done a bunch of that already.
I would not recommend a DB coach to your h. Why? Because this site and the coaches are here to help you and you do not want him to come to this site and start trying to find you and what you've posted. He needs to be working w/someone face to face and for now...someone that he can talk to. I would look for a solution based therapist. If he goes to counseling and it appears to be helping him, then...later on...the both of you could attend, but I recommend one on one first and see if he even goes and talks to the therapist. I would also recommend that you attend counseling/therapy (one your own, if you aren't already). You need to be working w/someone so that you can better understand why you are allowing this man to treat you the way that the does and how to get your self respect back and communicate w/him.
Talking to him doesn't appear to be helping very much. Actions speak louder than words and maybe actions are what he understands. He could very well be "tone" deaf to your conversations and tends to tune you out.
Just my two cents.
No one can predict which marriages can and will be saved. Generally, once the bomb drops, the MLCer and/or WS either don't go to counseling/therapy or they go just to please us and only pick out things here and there to justify their behavior. DB is not just about trying to save marriages...it's also a way to help you learn how to react and interact w/people (not just your spouse). It's a very good tool that anyone can use in their day to day life.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
We both go to individual therapy. Usually he's unpleasant towards me on that day and a few days after.
He hears what he wants to hear. He seems to be pretty persuasive so whoever he talks to agrees with him.
The way he reports back to them they tell him that he should leave me and not put up with me any more. It's as though he's stealing my experience.
I got upset tonight - first we went to movies and I felt like the fourth wheel with the kids - he had one kid on either side - clearly he doesn't want to sit next to me - then we went out to eat after at a place I'd heard about.
He asked if I would finish parking the car and meet him and the girls at the restaurant. I said "Sure" since my auto pilot is to say yes to things.
I didn't realize the restuarant was several blocks away and it was at night though it was well lit and many people were out it wasn't a great neighborhood. I got upset once I located the restaurant and said "Don't ever do that again!"
Why do I put up with this (not specifically that but in general) it's because my ADD makes me stressed out about being able to find work on my own - because I'm far from family - and because we have young children together. We live in an expensive school district. Lawyers are expensive. I don't know how to divorce - it seems very scary and mind boggling and stressful.
