Piecing my life and M back together

[LiM]

Did she ever agree to do whatever it took to save the M?

She never said those words to me and I never said "You must do x, y and z in order to save the marriage." In almost everything, I've told her how things make me feel and about things I would like to see but nothing has ever been a demand. My thought process has always been that I want her to CHOOSE to do what is right. I don't want her in the M if I'm forcing her to do whats right. I only want her if she chooses to do whats right. But she appears incapable of that. I guess I take the blame of not being more firm w her when I took her back.

She knows its an addition. She has a very addictive personality. That same trait is what lead to her all consuming compulsion to race/train and her previous drinking issues.

I DON'T like having to check up on my W. I don't want to have to be reading her text messages and checking her location. And typically I don't. I only do it when I sense something is wrong. And that's when I usually find the mess that she continues to make for herself.

I came home from my 2 day business trip at 2am this morning and sensed something was wrong from what I saw in the house. I sensed she had been drinking. No empty bottles in the trash so I looked in the trunk of her car and found 2 empty six packs. That may not sound like a lot but my W is a little person and she drinks this Cider crap that has a much higher alcohol content than regular beer. That would be like me drinking 8 beers. She was drunk and she was taking care of our kids.
Just now, I grabbed her iPad to look at her search history and saw that she has been googling OM's training group and looking at his Linkedin profile. She was also doing searchs on background check reports on his W. WTF!?!?!??!?!?!?!

So I'm still struggling to figure out the boundary issues. I really like the suggestion the mvgfwd gave about giving her the D papers again (I can print them) and a list of things that she must be willing to agree to. Her choice. She can choose the stack of D papers or she can choose my list. But I'm contrasting the slightly softer approach suggested by Soto and Georgia. I need to have this talk with her this afternoon so if you have any feedback on this, please chime in. I feel my list needs to be:

1. NC: No contact with either of them, via any means, ever again. PERIOD.
2. Deactivate FB account indefinitely
3. No drinking: no drinking alone or socially with anyone but me. The only time she may drink alcohol is when we are at dinner together.
4. No alone trips: No going to any race events either as an athlete or a spectator (to cheer friends) without me. If I can't go or don't want to go, she can't go. She was originally going to race at an event several states away in September. She won't be going as an athlete (because she hasn't been training properly) but was still going to go to cheer on friends (most of whom still train with OM). I can't go and I don't think its proper for her to go alone.

The first 3 items have all been discussed before; just never given as ultimatums. #4 is new. I don't feel this list is oppressive or unreasonable.
Over the past couple of days, I actually got to a place emotionally where I was ok with the drivel she wrote in her unsent "closure" letter to OM. I can detach. I don't expect perfection from her. I understand that she is still very confused, lost and broken and that it will take time to heal. But I now TRULY understand what it means that I can believe NONE of what she says and only half of what she does. I had been holding on to a very tiny shred of trust in her. That is now completely gone. How do you live with someone that you know continues to lie about what they are doing and saying?
That's some hard $h!t.

[LiM]

One more condition I forgot to put in the list:
Cancel her credit cards that I am not joint on: she is using them to buy her alcohol so I won't see the charges in her bank account. We don't need these credit cards. We have a "family" card with more credit limit than we will ever need.

We have a MC appt scheduled for Friday.

[doodler]

LiM,

Thank you for being so open about your situation. I know you're going through yet another difficult time and the ups and downs must be awful for you, but your posts provide good information, and at times, inspiration. I'm sorry you're going through this difficult time.

Is it possible that part of your wife's issue is MLC? She's an athlete, but in her early forties she may be nearing the end of her triathlete career (assuming it's been a career). I was shocked when Chrissie Wellington retired. I can imagine it's difficult to be in a profession where retirement occurs at a relatively young age.

[Cadet]

We have a "family" card with more credit limit than we will ever need.

Just keep an eye on it because if you hit your credit limit you will owe an awful lot of money, and
you wont be the first person that has happened to.

Protect your finances.

[Sotto]

Hi LiM, I think when it is set out like that it does sound rather oppressive and that would be my concern for you. Of course I'll defer to real experts like Sandi here, but I'll offer my view FWIW.

Prior to getting this list out, is it worth putting the ball in her court? Saying to her - you and I need to talk because how things have been going isn't working for me. I'd like for us to be building trust, but your online activity shows you are tracking OM on XYZ sites. I'm also concerned that you have been drinking heavily and hiding the cans (I think that is a lot to drink by the way...)

I'm willing to give our marriage my best effort. But only if we are both fully committed here. Your recent actions suggest otherwise. If you want us to move forward with D, I won't stand in your way. It's not my choice but I would prefer that to living like this. Have a think about what you want to do here and if you truly want to stay, we can talk about how that could work.

That's JMHO, but I think if you lay the list down as an ultimatum now, it would sound oppressive. To me, that list only really works if she has said she is all in and willing to do what it takes. Then is the time for signing up to the non-negotiables I think.

However, I think if you have the above convo, you actually need to be willing for the D to potentially move forward. The alternative would be stepping back, accepting that you aren't piecing right now and continue with DBing to see how things unfold.

I hope this helps a little LiM and best of luck with whatever you decide

[Georgia Bulldogs]

LIM,

If your wife is an active alcoholic then forget my soft approach.

Her first relationship is with alcohol. Until that relationship is severed there is no "working on the marriage".

Substance abuse gets resolved first.

You probably need al anon and professional assistance beyond the scope and/or abilities of this or any internet forum.

[mvgfwd2]

I don't view stating boundaries clearly as oppressive in the least. She is free to choose. You are only expressing what choices you are considering for YOU. You state "this is what I need in a marriage if that isn't what you want then this other thing, D, is what I may have to do to live with myself". She has a choice and so do you. There is no oppression. It's actually being as open and truthful with each other as possible. A lot of people do confuse enforcing a boundary with controlling, oppressive actions but they are not at all. If you said "you must do these things" There is no choice, it's a command and much different than saying "this is what I need to stay married and have some respect for myself". Do you see the difference.

[LiM]

I wouldn't call her an alcoholic. I am a health care professional. If I really thought she was, I would be driving her to an inpatient treatment facility and dropping her off myself. However, I will say she is absolutely at risk for becoming one if she doesn't get a handle on her issues. There is a history of substance abuse in her family.
She doesn't drink everyday. But when she does, she drinks too much. And she hides it (or tries to). She drinks because she is hurting and trying to cope.

Thanks mvgfwd, I do see the difference.

[sandi2]

She never said those words to me and I never said "You must do x, y and z in order to save the marriage." In almost everything, I've told her how things make me feel and about things I would like to see but nothing has ever been a demand. My thought process has always been that I want her to CHOOSE to do what is right. I don't want her in the M if I'm forcing her to do whats right. I only want her if she chooses to do whats right. But she appears incapable of that. I guess I take the blame of not being more firm w her when I took her back.

You cannot expect her to bounce right back into being the W she use to be, and that is what you have done....I think. Her mindset is not right, and she needs guidance. She needs you to light the way for her. She's not the one here getting the tools.

I am trying to find out if there was any agreement from her about anything you would need from her in order to save the M, or did you just take her back without her doing or saying anything about what would be expected. Did you take her back without any work on her part?

She knows its an addition. She has a very addictive personality. That same trait is what lead to her all consuming compulsion to race/train and her previous drinking issues.

So did you and your W have a plan as to how to work through her addictions, or did you just think you could "trust" her and she would choose to do the right thing?

I DON'T like having to check up on my W. I don't want to have to be reading her text messages and checking her location.

I'm sure you don't, but she is addicted. You have to be the strong one, and do what is needed to help her. Transparency is as much for her as is it for you. Do you understand why it helps her?

I came home from my 2 day business trip at 2am this morning and sensed something was wrong from what I saw in the house. I sensed she had been drinking.

She may not be able to stay alone while you are gone. At least for a while.

NC: No contact with either of them, via any means, ever again. PERIOD.

If you tell her those words, you had better be ready to back it up. I think she'll test you.

No drinking: no drinking alone or socially with anyone but me. The only time she may drink alcohol is when we are at dinner together.

To me, that sounds as if you are telling her that she is not allowed to get drunk, unless you are drunk, too.

The first 3 items have all been discussed before; just never given as ultimatums. #4 is new. I don't feel this list is oppressive or unreasonable.

I don't think she'll see it the same as you. And, you do know that boundaries are not quite the same as ultimatums, right? Are you telling her these are ultimatums?

I understand that she is still very confused, lost and broken and that it will take time to heal.

But you didn't want a transparency plan? You didn't like "checking up on your W". You have to deal with this as if she's an addict. She either is....or, she's not. You can't have it both ways.

I had been holding on to a very tiny shred of trust in her. That is now completely gone.

You can't trust her right now. She has to earn your trust, and she can.....but she has to work for it.

You cannot trust an addict to just start doing what they should do, then leave them alone to figure out how they will deal with the cravings and temptations. You can't expect them to go back into the mainstream of their old life again without some type of survival plan. That's not being fair to her or yourself, and it's not reality. You are angry right now, and want to bring down the hammer. I don't blame you for that, but if you approach her all hotheaded and demanding....your ultimatums may flop. You need to cool off and think before you speak.

Giving someone an ultimatum is not an automatic "fix it" to the problem. It's just like confronting her about an affair. Confrontation, alone, will not end the affair. So, think carefully before you approach her with any type of "list". Don't take what I am saying as me not agreeing with what she should do.

[BluWave]

Trying to get caught up on your sitch and my jaw keeps dropping open. Wow. That letter though. Ouch.

I can't begin to give you good advice because while my sitch is similar in so many ways, it is also quite different. When my H came back, it did not appear that he was "withdrawing," or grieving, or what have you. He was remorseful, ashamed, and wanted to erase it all. It appeared he had wanted to come back all along, but never quite knew how.

So I can't imagine how it would feel to read that letter. That would tear me apart. Perhaps there is a gender difference at play? WW vs WH? Not sure. Do WWs live more in the fantasy and WHs are more running blindly?

What I can say, is that she has a lot of chit to work through here and I am not sure how much you can help her. Instead of feeling the need to create boundaries, ultimatums, make decisions, lay it on the table, etc, I think you should change your focus altogether. Focus on detachment and finding your strength again. You do not need to make any decisions today. As you are experiencing, this is a long process and changes in varying directions over time.

You have already told her how you feel about her contact with them. She knows. So you can keep telling her and give ultimatums, but I am afraid you are spinning your wheels and lessening your power. Maybe it's time to take a big step back from her and focus on you again without any actions or grand proclamations. The distance might be healthy for you. Let her feel that distance too. Not sure she has ever felt the loss of you in all this.

-Blu