Thanks darknes - as you would point out - "the best for you" might not be a reconciliation. I think I've come to terms with that. I just wish that this would be over one way or the other so I can move on.
Just a minor update. W has been getting more friendly and engaged with me and our home. I can almost see improvements each day. Still no sign of OM and no renewed talk of leaving but also no mention of staying. She also has not been engaging with many of the "friends" who I feel were encouraging her to leave and have fun with her A.
W has also been working crazy hours which led me to today's screw-up. She was so very tired this morning that I popped around the table and gave her a supportive quick kiss on the top of her head and started to give her a very detached sort of hug. I saw her tense up as I leaned in but it was too late to stop the quick peck and she was a bit upset afterwards but didn't make a scene. She seemed more angry than disgusted but there seemed to be a bit of both in there. From other signs I'd thought she was ready for something as minimal as that - WRONG! When I left for work I knocked on the spare room door where she's been since April to say "good bye" and she came out seeming annoyed with a "what did you say?" She seemed mollified when I told her. Perhaps she was expecting to have to reject a follow-up on the hug attempt.
Oh well - one step forward - half a step back?
One question that probably has no answer. Presuming that she's ended her A along with her hopes and dreams that she had pinned on it how long would be reasonable for me to expect it to take to recover / how will I know? The A only ran as a PA from February, discovered in April, heated up in May and ended (?) at the start of June. She still has a strong support network which I'm quite sure she is leaning on still. I wish that I had some clue as to what is going on with her but neither mind-reading nor patience are my strong suits as followers of my thread will attest.
I opened up more fully to both of my brothers and their wives last Friday night after swearing them to secrecy and they have been very supportive. Both wives are completely positive that W is going through MLC / menopause and that she's sure to come back once her head clears. They've known her for many many years so I do give a lot of weight to their feedback. The older who is just finished going through her own peri-menopause is really pushing me to continue to be patient and not file for D. Unfortunately only the younger one is part of W's historical support network but hasn't been close to her since before the A in large part because she was in the middle of being pregnant.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
W had a long call with her brother today who had also had an A and he and is wife had reconciled. I had originally hoped that he would encourage W to drop her A and come back when it was in it's peak but instead he encouraged her to continue. She's off to visit him and his W and won't be back until tomorrow (freedom!). Since (I believe) that the A is over and that W is considering reconciliation then presumably our R will be a topic of conversation but who knows. I definitely don't know what his advice wold be to her now. I really wish that she would make up her "own" mind but she seems to be relying on the opinions of others which is part of what led her down the path to an A in the first place I believe.
The giggle was that W was packing some family heirlooms that were supposed to be passed on to her B but had been sitting in our house for the last year or more and she needed a box. She asked me if there were any around. I "almost" replied that yes - the closet in the spare room you have moved into is full of unused boxes that have been there for over a month but wisely pretended to not know about those and helped her find alternates.
I often wonder if I'm being tested on the "no snooping" rule or not - I just usually presume that I am even though I will confess here to relatively minor breaches. I try not to snoop because I don't want to find things that may be painful and my caring about what I might find gets less and less with each passing day. Sometimes W will leave things sitting out and I presume it to be a test (or laziness on her part), the most recent being mail from her insurance company. In the past, once it was opened and left out I would take it and file it since I'm the organized one. Now I just leave it sit until she either deals with it or asks me to. Generally she is very protective of her privacy and has a whole bag of stuff that she carries with her everywhere that contains heavens only knows what. There are things missing from our files that I presume have been carted around by her in that bag since just after BD.
A couple interesting other things though as our situation evolves in who knows what direction.
W went on quite a bit today about how much clutter there is in our house that is her doing and also how she's such a bitch. Being (perhaps far too) honest I didn't disagree but pointed out that I didn't really care too much about the clutter (partly true) and that the bitch part was just part of the package to me. She's always had a narrative of "I'm so horrible" which I've never really understood except when the A was on. Since I'm presuming that I'm more dealing with a WAW than a WW these days I do try to slip in the occasional "love you" in non-threatening ways and in such a fashion that she can hear it without hopefully feeling any pressure to respond so that I don't seem "too" pushy. So I'll say "I love you - have a good day" to which she'll respond "have a good day" back. It doesn't hurt me as much as it used to and while a month ago she would have looked angry and disgusted not she has no specific reaction I can see. Perhaps some day she'll smile. She's also been more accepting of the limited compliments that I try to sprinkle around every few days - as opposed to the lots of times every day when I was in full pursuit and pre-BD when I thought I was trying to cheer her up but was smothering her instead.
The other one was last night when I got home from work. If she's here and willing to talk (getting more common) I will ask her about her day and listen to her rant making sympathetic validating type noises. If she asks about my day (rare) I will not say much (because I don't think she cares) and then deflect the conversation back to her and listen to more ranting. I think it's safer for me if I keep my mouth shut most of the time and I don't think she's noticed - she never did pre-BD. However last night happend to mention in my 8 seconds of conversation that I had had lunch with a friend who was having some problems. She went away and did her own thing but then about 10 minutes later came back, sat with me and showed interest while I talked about the part of the conversation I had had with my friend that wasn't about us. It felt very strange but good for her to take an interest in my life.
Anyhoodles - back to my laundry and then my ironing (Hi doodler!). There's some crap around the house that I'm going to toss as well as part of my regular purge of things which surprisingly my hoarder W now seems to be supporting. I have a good book and a few cold beer waiting for me as well for later and a pork-chop thawing for my dinner. Since W won't be around until tomorrow afternoon and I don't need to worry about saying anything I shouldn't I might actually have a few of those beer. This may not sound very exciting as a GAL but for me it is freedom and a happy feeling of accomplishment when I see my freshly made bed, neatly folded clothes, and a row of crisp, freshly ironed shirts from the vantage point of a cold beer, comfy chair and good book.
I hope you all as well will find some joy in the simple things around you today.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Struggling a bit here. I have my 2nd appt with my new IC this morning and hopefully that will help.
I had left the board for a while because I was finding that it was taking up too much of my time and energy and I was focusing on defending my points of view rather than focusing on me and getting stronger. When I did that, I started leaning "heavily" on a friend who had offered support. Unfortunately she's given up on me. I've been able to build out my support network a bit more though to now include my brothers and their wives plus a very good friend who has known me for nearly 30 years but was wrapped up in his own personal issues during the heat of this. My S22 and especially D24 are more supportive too although I've not told them about the A and they are adamant that they will not "take sides". D24 I think suspects because there were some questions she asked about who W has been associating with that I thought was a "bad influence" and I refused to identify some of them.
My struggle right now is with the conflicting advice that I've been getting and my own combination of impatience and for the lack of a better term, courage.
To summarize where I'm at, I "believe" that my WW has turned back into a WAW as of around June 4th when her A ended (I think). Since she doesn't talk to me about personal issues (never really has in 28 years) I don't know for sure though. Every day she seems to get more attached to me and our family but is still quite distant. On June 23rd I gave her a letter where I asked her to make up her mind "in a reasonable time" but that I very much wanted to reconcile. She said at the time and one week later that she's thinking about it. Since then there has been no talk from her about leaving. Her moods are all over the map. She's been leaning on her own friends and spent last weekend with her B - taking the letter with her. On Monday she was "very" depressed. I'm pretty sure she is still recovering from the end of her A and the destruction of her fairy tale dreams. Because of our schedules and the fact that we're avoiding each other we don't actually interact too much.
On the one hand I have advice from my two SIL to stay strong, be patient and give W space and a "lot" of time. On the other hand I have advice from the friend who gave up on me, plus the other one that I had dinner with last night to give up on W, give her an ultimatum immediately if not sooner and move on. Last night's advice also included a lot of commentary that I "could do so much better than W" and that I needed to move on and recover from what this has done to my mental and physical health. He also pushed quite hard for an immediate separation of finances to add pressure to W and to protect me from her.
Both sets of advice are right as far as I my heart and head feel.
Originally I'd planned on giving W until today to make up her mind. I'm pretty sure that she hasn't for a variety of reasons from cake-eating to focusing on work to not wanting to deal with it (a historical problem for W).
Ignoring my lack of courage and not being the "king of the forest" (love the song from the Wizard of OZ), I'm pretty sure that if I pushed things right now that she would "say" that she would walk and the short term stress would go through the roof for probably the next 4 months and at the end of it I only give it a 60% chance that she actually "would" walk without me putting a boot to her butt. This is based on her lack of movement to date when she presumably was more motivated in the past. I also don't really want her back because she's being forced to, only if she wants to.
On the other hand waiting for her to make up her mind is tough but it's amazing what people can get used to and I'm getting rather used to the status quo even if I'm not happy about it. The probable lack of OM helps a "lot" although there is always the stress of not knowing and suspecting. There is also the uncertainty of how she would decide.
I alternate between fretting about it and more and more not caring. I have the plans in place for a D and separation of finances. I have fantasies (some steamier than others) of a reconciliation. I've been noticing that my pursuit behaviour has been getting worse and I need to cut back on that but struggle with it. I feel that I need to tell her as a WAW that I still love her, appreciate her and want to spend time with her but on the other hand I need to be independent.
So - today I'm working from home and have my IC appt this morning where I'm going to explore this a bit. This evening I'm going out for an early dinner and to watch "The Secret Life of Pets". I've invited W but made it clear that whether she comes or not that I'm still going. Tomorrow - well as Scarlett O'Hara said - it's another day.
Opinions, support, 2X4s etc appreciated.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
I'm going to take a wild guess. Your friend got tired of giving you advice and instead of taking action, you'd just argue your point of view.
Your wife is never going to make a decision about going or staying because there is no downside to staying. She gets your support (financial and otherwise) and she gets the OM as well. And, you like to iron clothes. Hell, I'd stay married to you too.
On the other hand I have advice from the friend who gave up on me, plus the other one that I had dinner with last night to give up on W, give her an ultimatum immediately if not sooner and move on. Last night's advice also included a lot of commentary that I "could do so much better than W" and that I needed to move on and recover from what this has done to my mental and physical health. He also pushed quite hard for an immediate separation of finances to add pressure to W and to protect me from her.
This advice is bullshit.
It's advice designed to make you feel good. I imagine its EXACTLY the same advice your W got a few months back.
It's advice from people that care about you that want you to stop hurting. That want you to feel better.
I'm going to take a wild guess. Your friend got tired of giving you advice and instead of taking action, you'd just argue your point of view.
Your wife is never going to make a decision about going or staying because there is no downside to staying. She gets your support (financial and otherwise) and she gets the OM as well. And, you like to iron clothes. Hell, I'd stay married to you too.
doodler - well - I'm not available right now but I might be soon and I understand you make great peanut butter cookies ...
You're pretty much bang on about the friend. It was more about that she felt that I was being treated with disrespect and my good nature being abused and that I didn't have it out with W. My friend just could not understand that W would not (and never has) sat down and had a rational conversation with me about our MR and that I didn't force her to. She got tired of hearing the same drama over and over and nothing getting fixed. I also crossed some personal boundaries of her's when I asked for opinions on things related to W's troubled relationship with sex. I feel bad but I'm not pursuing and will give her time and space to reconnect to me if she wants to - almost sounds like DBing - perhaps Friend Bustering?
As far as I can tell OM isn't in the picture any more and hasn't been for over a month - and believe me - I've been paying attention but will admit that I may be wrong. With that said, there still is lots of cake being eaten while W avoids making any sort of hard choices in her life. W has never been good at hard choices.
Meanwhile there's not really any "otherwise" going on, finances are tight like they always are and she has a pretty uncomfortable life here sleeping on a futon in the spare room with her stuff scattered around the house while I GAL and tidy and clean and make the house into something that I am happier living in (yes - I clean as well as iron - and I'm "cute" too ) Other than the fact that W said she's considering my request to reconcile I also really have no clue why she's still here. In fact back in March I asked her point blank why the f@ck are you still here - and she had no answer then and probably still doesn't. All of her enabling friends are probably asking themselves and perhaps her the same question.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
It's advice designed to make you feel good. I imagine its EXACTLY the same advice your W got a few months back.
It's advice from people that care about you that want you to stop hurting. That want you to feel better.
It's garbage.
Thanks darknes - I know that it came from a caring place and ignoring the "you could do so much better" , I do need to give serious thought to just giving up after all this time and moving on. I probably won't but I need to consider the point of the ancient philosopher JarJar Binks who once famously said "Me give up". In part to make sure that I have seriously considered the options and out of respect for these friends I am thinking hard about this path.
I'm positive that W painted OM in glowing terms to her friends and me with a brush dipped in tar while they cheered her on from their own safe marriages. It's sad because I've known some of those friends for 25+ years but part of W's controlling nature meant that it was mainly her interacting with them while I usually got left behind or stuck in the background.
I had a good session with my IC this morning talking about this. She very carefully did not give me any advice on stay vs walk but was pleased that I felt good about being prepared for the walk option. She then gave me a bunch of homework to do on preparing myself for the stay option recognizing that I'm the sort of person who needs to have a plan. I do recognize all the while that most plans are out the window once the action starts. The lack of a plan is probably part of what is keeping me scared.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
I had a good session with my IC this morning talking about this. She very carefully did not give me any advice on stay vs walk but was pleased that I felt good about being prepared for the walk option. She then gave me a bunch of homework to do on preparing myself for the stay option recognizing that I'm the sort of person who needs to have a plan. I do recognize all the while that most plans are out the window once the action starts. The lack of a plan is probably part of what is keeping me scared.
AndrewP,
Yes, I make excellent peanut butter cookies. One of these days you'll get a FedEx package...
It sounds like you have a good IC. My IC is wonderful. She started out as my MC and became my IC after my wife refused marriage counseling. She rarely gives me advice; usually she makes a statement or reinforces something I say and that provokes more thought (usually after the session). It's very effective.
Without my IC, I think I'd still be flailing around trying to figure out what was happening to me. Now I have a lot more confidence and inner strength. I can't thank her enough.
Big step tonight - my two SIL talked me into not being home for the first time being available for W / looking after the home while W is out wherever. I'm heading out tonight to the old family farm that my one brother has coming home Sunday afternoon - after all the ironing won't do itself and W isn't good at it.
I need to swing by the house to pick up my CPAP machine and a pair of PJs. My SIL believes that W will try to talk me out of it - personally I doubt it. There's a nickel riding on the outcome of that.
Wish me luck with this big GAL step. W has blocked access to my family - even though they are close - for nearly 20 years mostly through passive-agressive means.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
I am disappointed that you've started gambling. A nickle may not seem like much, but that's the start of the downward spiral. Next comes drugs and alcohol, then orgies and fighting. After that you'll want to take a trip to Walmart. That's when you know you've hit rock-bottom. I had high hopes for you Andrew, but...
) Other than the fact that W said she's considering my request to reconcile I also really have no clue why she's still here. In fact back in March I asked her point blank why the f@ck are you still here - and she had no answer then and probably still doesn't. All of her enabling friends are probably asking themselves and perhaps her the same question.