Focus on Me and my Boys 5

[J5K]

Old Thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2689757&page=10

[J5K]

STBX finally called last night at 7:45pm to speak with the boys. We were at my friends house and the boys were playing with his son. All of them briefly spoke with mom except for S4. STBX could hear me asking S4 to take the phone but he refused. She said that is OK she would see them in a few days.

She also called tonight and left a voicemail. I tried to call back but it went to her voicemail so I left it at that.

SadSara,

Thank you for the compliment.

I think all of us on this board paint a negative picture of our S's. Those who read our sitches are also hurt and may read the posts as negative. I am not excusing the actions of a WAS/WW/WH. I just know that they are lost souls that need to find themselves. No one is perfect.

As much as I post and write my feelings on this forum I still love her with all her flaws. I don't know if I will ever get her back even after D but I have to try otherwise I could not live with myself. I know I am a stand up guy and I know what I have to work on.

Why do I still love my STBX, because she is a person who has been through a lot in her life and I admire and is an inspiration. She had ulcerative colitis and had 3 surgeries (2 of them emergency surgeries). She came back from a near death experience and is now a fit healthy woman. When she was released from the hospital she would put on her snowsuit in the middle of December and walk miles to a Starbucks just to get her strength back. She is no slouch, she just wanted some attention from me which was missing for a long time.

Yes agree her most recent actions do not reflect the person that she was and there is no excuse for that which is why I stopped my transfer and then low and behold she files D papers two weeks after we unfiled.

It has been push pull between the two of us for months now. Since she filed though, it is difficult for me to do any LRT to move up there. She has locked me into a position that I have to protect my financial half since we are going through the D. I know she felt guilt about being with OM when I had my transfer going and that she was making crazy comments about how things would be when we would all be in the same city but I think she really needed to see the physical move happen to trust me.

I definitely will have boundaries in place if I do move there after the D. I am not going to allow her to cake eat which is why I stopped my transfer. The boundaries have to be set after we see the results of the D.

Breaking news!

9:15 pm STBX calls and wants to talk to the boys. I told her unfortunately they are asleep. She was a bit upset. She asked when and where to do the exchange on Monday. We agreed on the same location as last week.

She asked if the current babysitter is going to watch the boys the rest of the summer and I said yes, the boys really like her. STBX had no comment to that. Then she wanted to discuss mediation and assets and stated that the car she is driving is making noises and why can't we finalize splitting assets. She said her L says my L is delaying this. I stated that I will find out if that is true. STBX said I can't buy another car because our money is tied up in escrow. I validated with I understand that is frustrating that you cannot move forward.

She then starts to spew about her getting a job and asks what my plan is long term with the boys and how unfair it is that we cannot both be in the same city and how she would not be able to take them during the summer and holidays if she has to work and why won't I let her raise her baby. She stated that she would have limited days with them based on the outcome of the psychological assessment. I said I agree that it will not be easy to see them since you will have to work.

She then made comments about how is this the best interest of the boys. I said it is not since you are the one asking for a D, the best is having both parents under the same roof living together. She then said that this will never happen as she can never forgive me for filing first.

Somewhere in between all of this was also talk about dating OMs and she made the comment that she doesn't care who I date. So as we started to swirl again I said I have to hang up now and ended the conversation.

SH,

Thank you for the 100 2 x 4s yesterday. I will respond in more detail to your post another time. At this point I guess the rollercoaster still exists a bit for me.

One of my bosses once said the reason they hired me was because there is a solution to every problem. I still have hope that there is. All I know is my 50% knows that but my STBX's 50% does not feel the same way.

[Phoebe]

I agree, JK. It is very easy to paint a person who is not part of the conversation in a very unflattering light. I try to keep it to a dull roar, too, because I also believe my H is lost and must have been desperately unhappy. Not that I don't think he was and is a fool for the choices he made, but they were his to make. I just try to do my best to handle the fallout.

You are doing your best, too. You are a good man.

((((((JimKao)))))

[Painter]

Jim wrote (in old thread):

"Journaling:

I wake up this morning. It is exchange day for the boys. I am on a conference call. STBX calls at 8:15 am asking if I can meet her closer to the border to do the exchange. She states she is not well and cannot continue to do this on a weekly basis. I said I understand it is tough. This is what was agreed upon. Told her I was on a conference call and would call her back.

Work call is done and she calls again asking where I am, told her I was still at home and getting the boys ready. She said she is waiting at the border and did not cross yet then started to spew on why can't we just get this D completed and split assets. Also asked when will psychologist be done with the custody evaluation. I stated I do not know.

Then she started in on well you can keep the kids, you win, I can't keep driving 10 hours every week and why won't you meet me halfway. I stated that I have to work and cannot meet until later or you can pick them up at the agreed time of 5:30 pm from the apartment. I stated that I thought I was being flexible by meeting you mid day so you don't have to drive at night.

STBX started more spewing then and of course I failed at DB this morning by bringing up the R. She continues to say she will never forgive and I pushed back and she pushed back and multiple issues.

I brought up OM and trip she went on back in March. She said well that is what I needed at that time. Then she said she is not seeing that OM anymore and now it is a different one.

In short, the same swirl for an hour. I get the boys ready and we meet at the mall at noon. I get out of the car and tried to mend fences a bit and said I understand why you needed the trip. She was like oh now you do. I said yes. Left it at that.

She goes to hug the boys and S2 does not even give her the time of day. STBX looks at me and says see you did this. It takes S2 two days before he warms up to me. I looked at her and said I don't know what to say.

S2 does not react that way with me. I am not happy that is the way her reacts to her, makes me sad but she put us in this situation now.

Both of us get a little worked up again and she says I hate you and am going to bring the boys back when I want next Monday. I said we have an agreement on a set time and she said it is not filed with the court. I said OK. She continues to say I am not flexible and I snapped back with a remark and she says I am having someone else drop off the kids next time and then says I may not bring them back at all. Then she says she is going to bring her boyfriend next time with her and she is going to have him kick my a$$. And of course I said just bring them all (not a good choice of words by me).

Then S7 makes a comment and tells me leave us alone and to go live with my parents. I caught part of it and asked him again to repeat what he said. STBX repeats what he said. I sternly told him to be careful on how he talks to me and asked him to give me the book I bought him this past weekend. STBX tries to stop me and so I go around to the passenger seat of the van and open the door and asked S7 who am I and he said dad. I sternly said you do not speak to your father that way and for your punishment you do not get to take the book with you.

I need to improve on ensuring I do not do this in front of the boys as she continues to lure me in to these situations. Not a very good day for any of us in my family."

-----------

It's a process. You are absolutely right that you have to practice techniques so you avoid doing this in front of the boys and don't take her bait.

Here's what I suggest: Practice a few sentences in addition to the validation you already do so well: "I'm sorry, but that won't work for me." "Let's talk about this when the kids aren't around." And just repeat and repeat. Practice ignoring her. Just keep saying goodbye to the kids and leave.

I think the problem is that right now you'd rather have negative interaction with her than no contact at all. Trust me, I can relate. But with kids, you have to put them first. And of course it doesn't work with WW, either.

In relation to her threats, I'd suggest to write an e-mail and say, 'In light of the threats you made to bring OM to 'kick my a**' when you drop off the kids next, I request that we meet in the parking lot of X police station. I have contacted them and received permission to do this.' (I'd do this first, of course.)

I'd also add 'I expect you to not keep the children as you also threatened, but be there at the agreed time.'

And I'd cc your L.

This way you get this documented and on record.

[Zues126]

100%.

Email/text.

Communication.

No sending without a 15 minute cooldown/review period and with the assumption that everything will be reviewed in a court of law which will determine custody rights.

This is way beyond DB rules. This is legally and physically protecting yourself and your children. Time to treat this as the emergency it is. You are in no spot to be verbally sparring with her and reacting to your emotional wounds. It is damage control time. If you don't have a L yet get one tomorrow. Before noon.

[mvgfwd2]

I hope you have started having a least a voice recorder at every interaction you have with her considering her past threats and behavior. If not, you need to for every interaction going forward.

[SH_]

Jim,

Please listen to the advice you are being given. You need to snap out of the thought process of hoping to be friends and having a happy co parenting situation with the WW for your boys at this point.
Her continual behavior indicates she wants none of that and the more you try to go down that path the more she will resist. This is not to say that things won't evolve towards that down the road, but for now you need to man up, take care of yourself and those boys.
Detach detach detach is the plan and goals you must focus on, and as Zues states, it is time to protect yourself legally and leave the DBing be until the legal aspects are in place.

I pray for you and your sons and I hope you can hear the folks calling to you as you continue to wander in the LBH fog. She is not the woman you love and you have to understand this. The last interaction you shared is unacceptable no matter how you spin it. Be accountable and protect yourself legally and if her threats have any speck of truth Painters advice is also good to protect yourself physically.

Be well my friend, and heed the advice from those that have or are living a version of your nightmare. I know the anger of an angry W that is marching to the d. I also know the freedom and strength that detaching can provide so I can make decisions with a clear head. Hopefully my experiences provide some street cred so that you may understand what I am trying to share and encourage you think about.

Be safe and have peace this evening.

[Painter]

Check your state laws re. voice recording, for both jurisdictions, before you consider that.

[J5K]

Thank you everyone.

I contacted the psychologist who is doing the custody evaluation and we have a follow up meeting next Monday.

I appreciate the tough love and support.

I cannot record any conversation without her knowing. Not legal.

I have acupuncture scheduled again this week and going to schedule IC. I need to start learning how to be more calm and let this anxiety and sadness flow through me.

I just miss being intimate with my STBX. I enjoyed being the giving person but I deserve better treatment than this.

[qt4x11]

Jim - I believe voice recording is perfectly legal. Please consult your lawyer on this, you need to start protecting yourself.

[mvgfwd2]

And what's wrong with informing her you are recording? Maybe she will behave better knowing.

[J5K]

Every time I have she gets upset and stops. So yes, it is one effective tactic to stop the spew.

[Painter]

So she knows she's not behaving well since she stops? Maybe just let her know that you will record all conversations from now on to try to prevent hostility. Does it help you stay more in control?

[Painter]

Jim - I believe voice recording is perfectly legal. Please consult your lawyer on this, you need to start protecting yourself.

There are state laws and they are easy to research. If the conversation is across state lines, both state laws should be considered.

[SH_]

How is Jim doing?

I hope all is well and that ou are finding moments of peace and calm.

[J5K]

Hi SH,

Been busy with work the past couple of days. Had to get a presentation done for a hot project and a VP review.

Miss my boys. Today was rough. All I could do is think about them and STBX. My head has been spinning and I feel like I should have listened to her.

There are a lot of times I feel she was doing all she could to communicate with me and give me every chance to change a couple of things. Would this have changed my sitch, not sure but I had a hard time not thinking about this stuff today.

Ended up crying three times and tried to call the boys at 8 pm and STBX said they were sleeping as they were out in the sun all day. Next time she has them I need to set a time to call, either 7 or 7:30 so it is crystal clear on when I will be contacting them.

Not sure if I posted this earlier though but on Tuesday STBX sent pics of the boys and an email to the psychologist trying to show that I am neglecting the kids when they are in my care because they had scratches and bumps on them. She is starting to fight back a bit. My L thinks STBX is getting scared.

STBX somehow also found out about the letter the cleaning lady wrote to they psychologist. The letter basically stated that STBX left S2 in his high chair for 3 hours one morning. He fell asleep, cleaning lady went up and knocked on MBR and STBX did not come down until 15 minutes later and cleaned up S2 and put him to nap.

Worn out from the last few days! Sleep well everyone.

[Painter]

I'm sorry you had a rough day - and I know all about the second-guessing. But then I look at what H has chosen for himself now and why (according to him), and I know I could never be that person. I wasn't a perfect partner, but in order to fit his requirements, I would have had to almost eradicate myself and be someone I am not.

Bumps and scratches are normal for little kids, and unavoidable with all the boys you have. I wouldn't even worry about, especially if you know how they happened.

Leaving a 2 year old in a high chair for 3 hours - not so normal, I think, especially if it was unattended! But you guys have taken on a lot and can't even imagine handling so many children on a good day.

[J5K]

Thank you Painter,

There was one thing that happened with S7 where he chipped his tooth and I did not tell her. I should have. She has brought it up several times this week and tells me it is urgent to get it fixed. I told her I would schedule an appointment but she is upset that I did not get it done last week when they were with me. I agreed with her that I should have communicated the incident to her. She did not say anything but I could still hear disgust in her tone as she kept speaking to me.

She is also saying that S2 has eczema and it just happened to be at its worst last week, when this poor little guy has had it forever. I put lotion and hydrocortisone on the areas multiple times a day.

I called at 7 pm today to ensure I spoke with the boys since I was not able to speak with them yesterday when I called at 8. She did not answer her phone. Being it is Friday I figured maybe she was out to dinner maybe with the kids so I thought I would also try calling her parent's house line. Her dad answered and I was polite and he did not say anything to me. He gave the phone to the boys and I was able to speak with them.

When STBX took the phone she asked that I never call the house line. I said I would like to ensure that I speak with the boys and suggested we set a time for both of us to call. She became huffy and said "Is this how we are going to co-parent"? I did not respond. She then started to talk about the past and started to get angry about the mistakes I made. I said I did not want to discuss that and hung up again.

I get that her parent's are upset with me and that they don't have to speak with me. STBX says I am not respecting boundaries of contacting her family. I said I understand and that is why I suggested setting a set time.

STBX feels she is in limbo and so do I. Are families that resentful that they could hate someone so much? STBX makes it sound like I am some sort of cancer.

I followed up immediately with an email and will see if she ever responds. She complains that I do not respond to her emails (splitting assets and the original proposal from 6 months ago when she was trying to negotiate her raising the little ones so they would not be in daycare). Well she never honored that proposal even though I did give her S2 although it was weeks later after I found the DB book and had a couple of coaching sessions.

[Painter]

Jim, don't worry about her and what she does or says. Don't respond to her, just keep a steady course where you think about what's best for the children.

It is very normal to have a set access time to the children on non-custodial time. Since she has a history of not answering, putting them to bed early, etc., she is creating the situation of having to regulate it.

It's probably a good idea to make sure you communicate to her what happens to the kids. You can do it the day before takeover so it's not an ongoing thing.

Eczema can sometimes be a food allergy - often dairy. Coconut oil can be really helpful to take care of it, and no side effect.

[SH_]

JimKao,

What types of things are you doing to strengthen your emotional health and well being?

[J5K]

SH,

I am reconnecting with friends. It has been a little difficult though. All my friends are married now and it makes me sad to be around them.

I went to the hospital yesterday to see my BIL because he had a rare virus that paralyzed him from the neck down. He has been there for a week and this was the second visit I had with him. Doctor's diagnosed him with GBS. He is recovering quickly and will be ok. Will take him a few weeks of PT to get back to his old self again. While there my sister and another friend were talking about random family activities their kids were doing and I nearly broke down crying again, had to walk out, could not listen to the conversation any more and a buddy of mine that was there came with me for a walk.

I talk to people on the phone a lot. I have been working out at least 2 times per week, working on getting to 3 or 4 times per week.

Still trying to quit smoking, going to IC when I feel I need it. I go for walks a couple of times a week with or without the boys.

[SH_]

JK,

Might I suggest you meet a bit more regularly with your IC, and maybe even check in with an MD about some AD's?

Your postings of frequent tears and anger suggest possible depression and anxiety.

If your efforts to heal emotionally include meeting with people that discuss things that trigger your sadness that seems equivalent to the alcoholic that is trying to sober up hanging out at a bar.

JK, I strongly encourage you to enhance your healing efforts and focus on those efforts as you have been stuck in this dark place for sometime now.

Have you tried meditating, praying, reading and reviewing material about emotional well being?
Do you have daily goals and plans of action centered on getting out of the mental/emotional funk you are experiencing?

One of the biggest lessons that I have learned in my sitch is that we can control only one one thing in this universe and that is ourself. That includes what we think and what we feel. But just like it takes great effort and determination to make our physical bodies healthy and strong, so does it take the great effort and determination to be strong emotionally and mentally.

I have shared some great Ted Talks over on my thread that provide insight on these things. I encourage you to stop by and pick them up for your viewing and learning of some powerful messages.

I hope you can find some peace and calm my friend. You deserve it. Your youngs sons deserve it.

Big Man hug for you brother (((JimKao)))
Please buckle down and put in some heavy lifting and get to a place of calm.

[J5K]

SH,

I have 2 safe friends who have been very supportive and given me a ton of 2x4s and been very supportive when I express my feelings and actions. They don't judge and keep me grounded. I have also leaned on a lot of other friends who have been supportive in letting me talk about my sitch and just hanging out to pass time.

I have always been critical of myself my entire life. I know I am not perfect and forgive myself for my actions and things that I did. I know I am a good person.

I had a great workout this morning. Channeled all my energy into lifting weights for about 15-20 minutes and went for a brisk walk for about an hour while listening to music. During my walk I burst into tears a couple of times. Not because of the words in a song but because I think of my kids and feel sad for them. I will always hurt for them due to her actions.

I try to get STBX out of my head but I can't. No matter what, she will be with me my entire life. I am trying to figure out how to make the best of it. I can't even get into friend mode with her at this time.

I am not a cold person. I do not want to live the rest of my life with hatred, regret, anger towards STBX and just have things be business but I know I have to at this time and maybe the rest of my life with her. This is what I struggle with the most.

I have read books on emotional healing and use IC when needed. IC is very accommodating even when I call last minute to set up a session.

I do meditate a bit, I pray every night.

I know the reality is that STBX will never come back. She has too much resentment and hatred towards me, but I have to continue to take action and do what is best for my family. I will move after the D is done but on my terms. Yes this will be too little too late for my M, it will be for my boys.

It is just a shame that all STBX wanted was a few things from me and it turned into this disaster of a situation. At least that is what she stated, I am sure there is more to it than that but I need to be true to myself and ensure that I have exhausted all actions that I can take to save my family even after the D and I will continue to do so. Whether STBX wants to be a part of it or not will be up to her.

I am not done DBing. I have a long way to go. I may be a slow learner from that perspective but will continue to try. Life is full of surprises so who knows. I have to take some chances and risks and not let fear control me.

I think Zues126 had the mindset of only having one M in his lifetime. I personally agree with him which is why I am making the choice to continue to fight for my M even after the D. The only way I will stop is if STBX gets remarried.

[bigybiz]

JimKao: You are a rock star of DB'ers. I would be a utter mess if I had to deal with the things you are handing i.e. 5 young kids, long distances, A, health issues, etc.

The steps you are taking are awesome. I know you can plot a steady course to step up your game and leave the pain, hurts, etc behind.

It's absolutely awesome that you are trying to quit smoking in a time of crushing stress.

Great suggestion from SH to try and see your IC more often. Perhaps mix it up a little. I have really benefited from talking to a variety of professionals including: IC, Pastor, DB coach, a life coach, etc. All with a different outlooks and approaches. In the end you will need to take the different advice and find the right mix for you and your boys.

Try and find a new hobby or think of activities you can do with your boys. I know you treasure the time with them so mix it up a little - the payoff will be incredible. Have a costume night at dinner, or do a scavenger hunt in the house. Go to a thrift shop and give each boy $2 or $5 and get them to find the most fun, unique, interesting thing they can for their budget, maybe read a Bible story every night to the boys (using a children's bible). Perhaps you can act out Noah and the ark or Joseph and his dream coat. Breaking up the routine can really give you some happiness and a sense of accomplishment.

Stay the course - the future for you and your boys is bright - no matter who is in it with you.

[Melo]

Hey JK, I too have taken a long time to fully embrace the DB mindset. I am one hard headed MFer. I made many mistakes throughout this past year and continue to make them. I once read an old Turkish proverb that says "No matter how far down the wrong road you are, you can always turn back." Every day we wake up is a new opportunity to make better, different decisions. It sounds corny but it is a clean slate of which we can make whatever we want. With that being said I agree with both SH and Biz, if you have been feeling this way for a while then meds can definitely help break the downward spiral and talking to many different supports helps bring perspective to situations. Personally I have taken the road of exercise, talking to supports (including Christ) and watching motivational videos on YouTube-Leslie Brown, Borate Picasso, Tony Robbins have all been very helpful to me. This fight is far from over JK. Just shift the focus from your W to yourself. We are here for you brother. Stay strong.

[vise82]

Hey,

A long time ago, I was in favour of you moving to Toronto to co parrent the kids as it was the origonal goal you and your W had. All plans were movong that way till the MR fractured.

Then I see you pulled back, to protect yourself. Sort of like putting on the oxygen mask on you first before you could help anyone else.

I think you are on the right path, its a self less path and purely for your kids sake. You will find I think its best for the kids, and I bet your STBX will have very little influence on your life when you get settled there.

My W lives walking distance to my house and all that does is saves on travel time. Other than that she might as well be in another country as far as us doing stuff together. We basically have seperate lives now eccept for soccer games, or school events.

[J5K]

bigy,

Thanks for the suggestions. I will attempt to living things up some more with the boys and make things more fun.

Melo,

Thank you for the you tube suggestions. I do feel like I can turn back and take the right road. I just need to ensure that I don't have any expectations that my STBX will come back and ensure that I am strong enough to handle it.

Vise,

You summed up my sitch very well. I feel had I continued down that original path I would have been financially crippled by STBX. Now she is the one that is starting to worry and realizing the consequences of her actions. I have about another month to go before the D goes to trial. Just need to ride this train a little longer.

STBX has literally no influence any more on my life. She has checked out months ago and there is nothing I can do about that. The only thing we discuss is the kids and that is it. There is no M anymore for her.

[J5K]

Ok everyone, so here is the rollercoaster ride for today even though I was hoping I would not have one.

Went to see psychologist at 4:30 pm to discuss custody. I will spare everyone the details. In a nutshell she stated this is a difficult decision for her to make because of the distance. She stated that the S not awarded custody would have minimal overnights with the boys, meaning only school holidays and long weekends. She did state that the S with custody would have to drive the boys to their visit with the other parent. I asked the psychologist a hypothetical, if both parents lived in the same city then what would she recommend and she stated 50/50 with a 2/2/5 schedule.

I did not feel good coming out of this meeting and called my L to discuss. L says that the psychologist should be recommending a custody arrangement based on the boys living in Michigan and not consider change of domicile, that should be the judges decision. L said she was going to discuss with psychologist.

Here comes the good stuff. STBX and I are supposed to meet at 5:30 pm to do the exchange with the boys.

The following texts occur:


[7/18/16 3:34 PM] STBX: Jim, we are stuck at the border, you will have to come to us.

[7/18/16 3:34 PM] STBX: Sitting on the 402 for the last 40 mins

[7/18/16 3:35 PM] STBX: Traveling at these times just doesn't work

[7/18/16 3:36 PM] Me: STBX. I will come towards you. I have a meeting until 5. I will leave right after.

[7/18/16 3:36 PM] Me: We can discuss an alternate time.

[7/18/16 3:37 PM] STBX: You're kidding me

[7/18/16 3:37 PM] STBX: So maybe 6:30 then

[7/18/16 3:38 PM] STBX: Assuming I even cross

[7/18/16 3:39 PM] Me: I will come to you as quickly as I can.

[7/18/16 3:40 PM] STBX: This is not working

[7/18/16 3:40 PM] STBX: We have to fix this because I can't be travelling 14+hrs in the car every Monday that

[7/18/16 3:40 PM] STBX: That's insane

[7/18/16 3:43 PM] Me: I can sense this is really frustrating travelling so many hours and how difficult it is for you.

[7/18/16 3:43 PM] STBX: Is that a joke?

[7/18/16 3:44 PM] STBX: I would never have made you drive round trips every week to see the kids

[7/18/16 3:44 PM] STBX: I would've met you halfway

[7/18/16 3:44 PM] Me: No joke.

[7/18/16 3:44 PM] STBX: Like a normal and decent person

[7/18/16 3:47 PM] STBX: The fact that you have us traveling to fit your schedule just shows what a selfish person you are...I'm not the only one suffering. This is going to be a 7 HR car ride for the kids...

[7/18/16 3:48 PM] Me: I realize it is tough on the boys.

[7/18/16 3:50 PM] STBX: Oh do you now? Then why wouldn't you find a way to make it better for them

[7/18/16 3:50 PM] STBX: Instead of insisting on it being convenient only for you

[7/18/16 3:51 PM] Me: Do you really think things are convenient for either of us?

[7/18/16 3:52 PM] STBX: Oh they're convenient for you and you only. Everything revolves around your schedule

[7/18/16 3:53 PM] STBX: I can't wait till this report comes out and we can finish this divorce already

[7/18/16 5:26 PM] Me: Hi just checking to see where you are

5:30 pm STBX calls my cell, asks where I am and I said meeting ran late and I am on my way. Mind you that technically she is supposed to be driving an additional hour to come drop the boys off and I am going to meet her. She is upset that she has to wait. Any alternatives I give her do not work for her.

[7/18/16 5:33 PM] STBX: Exit 266

[7/18/16 5:33 PM] STBX: At the McDonald's

[7/18/16 5:33 PM] STBX: Was stuck for 2 1/2 hrs trying to cross the border

[7/18/16 6:27 PM] STBX: Jim it is now 6:30. Where are you? The boys have eaten and we're waiting in the car.

STBX calls three times at 6:30pm. I do not answer as I am on the phone with a friend.

7/18/16 6:31 PM] Me: I am at Exit 243 be there shortly

[7/18/16 6:32 PM] STBX: You're still 15 mins away

[7/18/16 6:32 PM] STBX: Unbelievable

[7/18/16 6:32 PM] Me: There was traffic

We do the exchange with the boys. We do not talk. I let her know that S2 has doctor appointment tomorrow and S7 next Monday. She did not seem to care.

[7/18/16 7:04 PM] STBX: R u for real!!! The car has no gas

STBX calls 5 minutes after I do not respond to text and starts to spew anger and calls me nasty names. Says there are no gas stations on the highway. I asked where she was and she stated crossing the border. I suggested an exit right after she crosses and she continues to spew anger, stating she always gives me the car full of gas, I apologized and told her today was a busy day and I did not have time. She does not accept that answer and continues to spew. I politely tell her I am hanging up and do so.

[betterm]

Jim, our wives give us ample reasons to continue loving them, don't they?

[Rose888]

This might be a stupid question, but why on earth are you guys exchanging during the work week instead of on Sunday?

[J5K]

Rose

STBX chose the day. There is less traffic usually on a weekday than the weekend.

[mvgfwd2]

I can't help but shake my head in disbelief at your STBX. She chooses to leave M, chooses to move to Toronto, chooses the day for exchange, chooses to have an OM, chooses ... and still has the nerve to blame everything on you. WOW!

[J5K]

I think I am a pretty patient guy. This has been my life for 6 years now.

I hope I did well with validating in the text messages. I know I need a lot of work on how to respond but STBX sees the validation comments as mocking her. I also shake my head and can't believe how much anger she still has with this whole situation.

I am pretty sure that a lot of that anger will go away if I move up there.

Ls discussed some rough numbers for child support with me yesterday. I was surprised to hear how low the amount would be if STBX and I had 50/50 custody. I would pay less than $1K. On the flip side, if I stay in Michigan and she has to pay me then she will pay over $1K assuming she is imputed the minimum salary in Michigan. Both these assume she would have the boys adoption subsidy going to her.

I do not think she has thought this through well enough to realize how much financial strain will be put on her and her family.

[rich4j]

JK-

Those numbers are great in terms of what I know about the entire custody piece for you!

And are you struggling with worrying about her with the financial piece or the kids? Or both?

It's a tough juggle. If she struggles so will your boyz I am keeping that in my mind with my discussions but its hard.

[betterm]

I do not think she has thought this through well enough to realize how much financial strain will be put on her and her family.

I don't think a WW ever "thinks it through"... my W is another perfect example of that. Files for D with almost no money in joint checking, and no source of income for the next two months, and refuses to find a filler job until school starts back up. WAS has a whole new kind of mindset, and it is not one of rationality.

[PsySara]

I am pretty sure that a lot of that anger will go away if I move up there.

Yeaahhhh, I don't think so. The only thing your W has been consistent about is blame shifting and placing allllll the reasons for her unhappiness on your shoulders. Even though she is the cause of her own demise she continues to point fingers at you.

Jim,
You are an amazing father with assets only an idiot wouldn't recognize. Meanwhile your wife has the maturity of a 3 year old and the planning of a gold fish. I kind of want to whack her upside the head with some reality so she can see how stupid she is being. Keep doing the work, brother, you can only win by being the best JimKao you can be.

[betterm]

I am pretty sure that a lot of that anger will go away if I move up there.

The only thing your W has been consistent about is blame shifting and placing allllll the reasons for her unhappiness on your shoulder

I think SS is spot on, why would you think the anger would just "go away" if you moved up there? I think your WW would see it as something totally different than what you are thinking... and this blame-shifting thing... it won't go away. My W too, has the maturity of a brattie little girl who doesn't get her way, she will find some way to blame you, regardless of how "perfect" your actions are.

[J5K]

Rich, betterm, SuperSara,

Thank you for the positive comments. I don't give myself enough credit sometimes.

So I know I have posted a lot about moving there after the D and on my terms. What I have been thinking about lately though are what are those terms after the D?

Do I offer a different custody arrangement?
What other boundaries can I set?

In my head I keep thinking I want everything to be the same as to whatever the outcome of the D is, but I would do things like take my S2 to her place instead of paying child care. That is assuming she does not have a job and is still living off of her parents.

Maybe I should just stop thinking about this nonsense at this point in time. I like to plan and analyze many scenarios though so I am prepared emotionally.

[betterm]

Lets play a game... Plan every scenario you can think of, lets say, at least ten or so. Make the most analytic decisions and projections you can based on what you have thought up.

Now, take all those scenarios, outlines, plans, strategies, etc... put them in a bag and place that bag out on your driveway. Your shell of a wife comes and picks up that bag, and heads back to Canada. Somewhere along the way, Her car is struck by an oncoming vehicle and the car immediately catches fire and explodes. No survivors, human nor analytical...

What's your plan now?

[J5K]

betterm,

I laughed a bit as I read this. I get it, stay where I am.

I will have to post later tonight to explain my thoughts more clearly.

[Rose888]

Ah. I guess maybe there is method to the madness.

The current situation sounds very hard on all of you. I understand why the psychologist is recommending only swapping kids at school holidays.

Hang in there. Things should get easier after the D is finalized.

[sandi2]

Do I offer a different custody arrangement?
What other boundaries can I set?

Why would you go through everything you have...and then offer her a different custody arrangement? I'm not understanding your thinking behind this action, except maybe, you are trying to do something to soften her angry feelings toward you.

If it were me, I would set a deadline for the phone calls to the kids. Say, no more calls after 7:30 pm b/c it upsets the little ones to talk to her right before bedtime. And, you should abide by it, when the kids are with her.

I would hold her feet to the fire about sticking to the scheduled days to have the kids. B/c I think once you move up there, she will want to "use" your availability for her advantage. You are a good father, and not keeping the kids when she has other plans does not make you a bad parent. If you ever start keeping the kids on her scheduled days........I think she will have you tied down every night and especially weekends. If it were me, I would nip it in the bud the first time she wants you to keep them "for just a little while". I would tell her that I prefer to stick by the court's schedule.......at least for a while. The boys will never know where they are going on what day, so a schedule seems necessary, IMHO. Besides, what did she do before you moved and she needed a sitter? Right? I see so many fathers on this forum say that never pass up an opportunity to keep their kids.....and then go into how much they love them. That is not the point here. Everyone knows you love those kids, and you don't have to prove it. You do need to prove to your SBXW that you are not available to keep the boys when it's on her scheduled time. You have made plans, and no, she doesn't get to know any details. You did not move up there to be her babysitter.

I hope you will go up there with the determination that you aren't moving to Canada to be available for Her Highness. Each of you should be responsible for getting someone to keep the kids if you need to do something. That is what divorce is. You and SBXW may want to be first choice to keep the kids for the other one.........but I would discourage it for a while, until she sees she can't "dump" on you. Then hopefully, if her anger gets under control and she begins showing some respect to you, the two of you can agree to consider the other parent as first choice to "babysit". Excuse me for using that term, and it is not to offend you or the children. It is to describe her attitude about you providing her the convenience to date and play while you can take care of her 6 little packages that spell "responsibility". Don't rescue her.

I can see in your writings that you still love her, or rather the girl you M. I can't help but believe you are subconsciously looking at this move to Toronto as your second chance to reconcile the M. It may come about some day, but your W needs to make some serious changes before you take her back.

I think she needs to see that you are not going to treat her like a royal princess. She needs to see that she cannot boss you around, and can't take advantage of your kindness and willingness to be cooperative. These three things are very important in your situation. If there is a chance for a happy future with her, she must respect you as a man. If she can work you like a puppet........she won't respect you, and her desire for you to be her H and lover will not return. Do you believe what I am saying, Jim?

[J5K]

Sandi,

Thank you for your feedback. What you posted was what I have been thinking.

Assuming I have custody most of the year, I was going to move and continue the same arrangement. I plan on consulting an L in Ontario also to see if I can file the arrangement in their courts also to protect myself and the boys before I move because jurisdiction will then be in Ontario. I would present the arrangement to her to sign. If she does not then I guess things will stay status quo and I will continue to live in Michigan.

I agree she needs to come back to the family, not the other way around.

Since she has her family there, I don't think that STBXW will use me as first choice so she can go do things. I am in total agreement with you that she will have to find another resource (MIL, SIL, FIL) to watch the boys on her time if she wants to GAL.

I agree that she needs to respect me, at the very least as a person, which she does not at this time. Maaaayyyybeee she will when I move there and that is a big MAYBE!

Yes, I still love her, hate her behavior though, yes, I still have a little hope that we may remarry. I can't hold on to that forever. I owe it to my boys though to show them that I tried. If there is little or no progress in 2 or 3 years, then I can always come back home.

She used to say that she had to schedule everything and that I did nothing but work, well let's see if she will see a confident man who takes care of 5 boys and schedules all their activities.

If this doesn't make me attractive to her, then it will to someone else.

[sandi2]

She used to say that she had to schedule everything and that I did nothing but work,

Such an asinine statement from a SAHM!

[betterm]

I laughed a bit as I read this. I get it, stay where I am.

Hey Jim, who said you need to stay where you are? that wasn't my point, but I'm just trying to get you thinking about things in a different way. like sandi2 said in her post (next page), it seems like you're still trying to think about this in ways that will soften your WW's attitude towards you. remember the rules on convincing/controlling/etc... you can't change her no matter how awesome your actions are. it's okay to consider other things, but always bring it back to YOU. may sound selfish, but it's all you have control of, why waste your energies on "cheeseless tunnels" as people around here like to say.

[betterm]

She used to say that she had to schedule everything and that I did nothing but work,

Such an asinine statement from a SAHM!

My WW was a SAHM, with no children, and complained about having to do things around the house, wanted to hire a maid... wtf is wrong with these people.

[J5K]

Not much to update.

STBX has not called since we did the exchange on Monday.
Boys did not even ask me to call their mom.

[Painter]

I don't think you can get a custody agreement in place based on what is best for the kids with parents living so far apart, and then move to Canada and expect the custody agreement to hold up. Moving to her city would likely be a 'material change of circumstances' that at least in a US court in itself would give her the opportunity to file for a change. It sounds like Canada is even more mother-friendly than the US?

You should probably discuss this with your L because I think it's a catch 22 idea.

I think it's a good idea to file any agreement you have in the US, in Canada, if possible, so it's upheld and respected in both countries.

And strategically, take the children as much as you can to begin with. If WW leaves the children with you more than the agreement states, so you have them more overnights than it says you're supposed to, you could potentially ask to get it changed to reflect reality after about 6 months of a consistent pattern. Another thing to beware of and discuss with your L (in case the laws are different in your area).

I understand your quandry. I'm also an ahead-of-myself person with lots of scenarios going and being evaluated at all times.

[sandi2]

My WW was a SAHM, with no children, and complained about having to do things around the house, wanted to hire a maid... wtf is wrong with these people.

I don't know if they become so self centered, or always had a selfish streak. I doubt many of these SAHM's have any idea what it's like to work long hours on a job every day and then go home to work on house chores. I think it can be a seed that grows and intertwines with her other resentments and bad attitude toward her H, and in the end she is wayward b/c her self centered mental attitude affects her feelings for her H. Funny how these women, when giving their laundry list of complaints on bomb day, say he didn't help her enough with the house. Garbage! If she would authenticly divorce her H simply b/c he wouldn't help around the house........ she must have an element lacking in her person, and doesn't empathize with the one she claimed to have loved. (Considering there are no extending circumstances). It is widly used for an excuse, and the real reason comes into view later.

IMHO, I think it is a signal that something is out of wack for this woman. If her H is providing a good living for eight people.......working extra hours or whatever it takes to give them a good life.......then her job should be taking care of the home. That is real team work in taking care of the daily needs of their family. That is more equality, than him killing himself on the job and going home to do half of her work, too. If the genders were reversed and she was the one working those long hours and he was a SAHD, I bet she would not put up with him whining that she doesn't do her share of housework, or doesn't schedule things.

[J5K]

Painter,

I completely agree with your statements. It is a risky move even after the D. This is why I will have to wait until she actually feels a loss and makes some child support payments.

Precedence needs to be set that she is no longer a SAHM.
I plan on contacting an L in Ontario also to ensure that I can file something with the courts there also.

If it changes to 50/50 and we both live in Canada, I feel she will have her ultimate cake eating experience, whether she works or not.

[Rose888]

Painter,

I completely agree with your statements. It is a risky move even after the D. This is why I will have to wait until she actually feels a loss and makes some child support payments.

Precedence needs to be set that she is no longer a SAHM.
I plan on contacting an L in Ontario also to ensure that I can file something with the courts there also.

If it changes to 50/50 and we both live in Canada, I feel she will have her ultimate cake eating experience, whether she works or not.

Your last paragraph confuses me. Given the ages of the boys and the fact (stated by others who live there) that Ontario courts are more friendly to mothers in a divorce, it seems like 50-50 is the best scenario you can hope for if you move to Toronto.

Are you thinking you can get primary custody in the US and keep it if you move to Toronto?

[J5K]

Rose,

Yes, that is what I am hoping. Maybe my expectation is unrealistic, not sure. That is why I need to consult with an L in Ontario.

I do know that it is not easy to overturn a decision regardless of jurisdiction. Not sure what STBX would do if I offered to move there with the boys after the D.

More limbo, more waiting, more risk.

[Vanilla]

I do hope your boys stay primarily with you Jim.

V

[J5K]

Well, day 4 STBX does not call to speak to the boys.

Anyone want to take bets she does not call and just texts me to find out when to pick them up on Monday?

I know STBX is close with my MIL and I am having a hard time believing that my MIL is not telling her to call and speak to them. Did I marry into that F'd up of a family?

[SH_]

Jimkao,

Now is an opportunity to make efforts to detach.
Her not calling should not have any affect on you.
Focus away from her.
Detaching is an action, not a destination.
Take action now.

[dream]

What happens if she is awarded primary custody?

[J5K]

dream,

If she gets primary custody I will move there and also appeal to have 50/50 custody. If 50/50 can't happen then I will still move there to be close to my boys.

[Rose888]

dream,

If she gets primary custody I will move there and also appeal to have 50/50 custody. If 50/50 can't happen then I will still move there to be close to my boys.

So, if she gets primary custody, you want the custody agreement to change when you move there so she loses primary custody, but if you get primary custody, you want to move there and keep primary custody??

I think you are setting yourself up for a lot of disappointment.

[J5K]

dream,

If she gets primary custody I will move there and also appeal to have 50/50 custody. If 50/50 can't happen then I will still move there to be close to my boys.

So, if she gets primary custody, you want the custody agreement to change when you move there so she loses primary custody, but if you get primary custody, you want to move there and keep primary custody??

I think you are setting yourself up for a lot of disappointment.

Rose,

I get your point. I am willing to negotiate if I get custody in Michigan and decide to move up there afterwards. It would only be fair to everyone and probably the only way I could rebuild a friendship with her if I ever hope to have an R again.

[Phoebe]

Hi, JK. Just a drive by to let you know I'm still here and wishing you well.

(((((Jim and his boys)))))

[J5K]

Thank you Phoebe

Weekend has been ok. Took the boys to the pool yesterday. They also played on the playscape outside.

Its been 6 days of NC between STBX and the boys. I guess she was serious when she said she would detach from them back in January. I think a person like this needs serious therapy.

[J5K]

Thank you Phoebe

Weekend has been ok. Took the boys to the pool yesterday. They also played on the playscape outside.

Its been 6 days of NC between STBX and the boys. I guess she was serious when she said she would detach from them back in January. I think a person like this needs serious therapy.

Should I express my concerns to her about this?

[Rose888]

Thank you Phoebe

Weekend has been ok. Took the boys to the pool yesterday. They also played on the playscape outside.

Its been 6 days of NC between STBX and the boys. I guess she was serious when she said she would detach from them back in January. I think a person like this needs serious therapy.

Should I express my concerns to her about this?

No.

[Vanilla]

No defo NO.

In case I didn't say it.

NO.

V

[Vanilla]

But you are logging this aren't you?

V

[J5K]

Yes, V I am logging all of this.

[Vanilla]

Phew

V

[SH_]

Thank you Phoebe

Weekend has been ok. Took the boys to the pool yesterday. They also played on the playscape outside.

Its been 6 days of NC between STBX and the boys. I guess she was serious when she said she would detach from them back in January. I think a person like this needs serious therapy.

Should I express my concerns to her about this?

What is there to gain from expressing your concerns to her?
Everything you have shared here says she has no interest in your concerns.

[Painter]

Thank you Phoebe

Weekend has been ok. Took the boys to the pool yesterday. They also played on the playscape outside.

Its been 6 days of NC between STBX and the boys. I guess she was serious when she said she would detach from them back in January. I think a person like this needs serious therapy.

Who did she say that to? Does the psychologist know?

Just document, document, document. She really doesn't care what you think or say, so don't criticize her (that's what she's going to hear if you express concern). Don't have any visible opinion on anything she does, unless the children are in immediate danger.

[J5K]

Painter

STBX said that to me back in January. I have told the psychologist.

Thank you all for the advice of not bringing it up.

I think the boys are bonding with me more. S2 and S4 are getting a lot of attention feom me, they keep wqnting to be held and hugged.

When I out them for naps one of the S6s hugs me for 2 to 5 minutes.

They have been listening more and help out around the apartment.

For all they have been through I am amazed how well they are handling this.

[PsySara]

They are handling this well because their father is showing them dependability and steadfast loyalty. They will grow to be amazing men because of you. Continue being this wonderful father and man and you WILL be the winner, you will. Keep documenting and start seriously considering that your boys may be better off with just their father than a flaky mother who follows her own selfish desires instead of considering her children's needs.

[tfish08]

I think it is normal for the walkaway to detach from the kiddos. Mine has just called after 7 days. He promised to swing by to see them it is now past 5 and no show. I wish he would show half the grit you have shown for your boys. Stay strong do what is best for your boys! You are an amazing dad!

[Vanilla]

Hugs are wonderful things

V

[SH_]

Painter
I think the boys are bonding with me more. S2 and S4 are getting a lot of attention feom me, they keep wqnting to be held and hugged.

When I out them for naps one of the S6s hugs me for 2 to 5 minutes.

They have been listening more and help out around the apartment.

For all they have been through I am amazed how well they are handling this.

Because you are an amazing father, and they can feel it in the midst of the chaos. Keep your focus on them and steer clear of the circus and you will continue to provide great joy and comfort for those lil guys. Well done my friend, well done indeed.

[J5K]

Thank you everyone for the kind thoughts and words.

STBX finally sent a text on Sunday to confirm exchange time. I confirmed the time with her and she did not mention anything about me meeting her closer to the border.

She then texted to see if she could speak with the boys but they were napping and I said I would have them call after they wake up. She spoke with them later that evening.

Yesterday we did the exchange. I said my goodbye to the boys and STBX had a sour look on her face every time I looked at her.

I informed her that S7's medicine and S2's lotion for his eczema was in the bag and that we fixed S7's front tooth that was chipped.

S4 told STBX that he was not feeling well as I was saying my goodbyes and she said well that is because daddy keeps taking you to the dirty pool even though I told him not to.

I did not respond to her comment about the pool. I just stated that he did not have a fever earlier in the morning.

As soon as I drove away, I could see STBX interacting with the boys and all of a sudden she gets this huge smile on her face and is a happy person.

I love seeing her like that but I wonder how genuine it is and how she can hate me so much and turn things on and off like a light switch.

I also spoke with a DB coach yesterday. He said I was doing a lot better with validation and that ridiculous responses from STBX will happen when she notices you are responding out of my normal way when she tries to push my buttons.

So I guess that is a positive for me in my development on how to handle STBX.

[SH_]

Great job steering clear of the circus.
Yes, I saw many barbs as I would validate WAW. I would agree it is because they are caught off guard and stay in defense mode.

What are your plans for GAL while the boys are with her?

[J5K]

Going to dinner with a friend tonight.

Have a lot of things to still gather for L as far as financials go as STBX is not sharing info.

Laundry for the boys, clean the apartment, and make plans to go hand out with other friends later in the week.

[SH_]

Nice.
I challenge you to throw in an activity for building up the mental/emotional states.
Meditation
Reading
Ted Talks
Prayer
Anything else that can build your inner strength and focus for you.

[J5K]

SH,

Yes, I plan to add in some meditation and reading and ted talks, etc. Will keep you posted on how I do.

Also just received a Letter of Admissions from my L that she plans to send to STBX.

Gosh, the questions sound brutal but most are focused on her dating OMs and the amount of time she leaves the care of the boys with her parents.

This is just going to infuriate STBX!

[bigybiz]

SH:

Is there a thread with links to useful TedTalks, etc? If not - should we start one? Maybe we could have a repository of ideas, etc for those who are looking for inspiration, ideas, etc.

I know I would not know where to begin when looking for something motivational to get me out of my funk.

If you have reccos for TedTalks, books to read, other online resources, etc. I know we'd have to be careful not to promote competitors on this site - but sometimes you can learn a few things from those who are in the same space.

[sandi2]

IMHO, I don't think they act badly (sour looks, etc.) b/c they are caught off guard by validation from the H. The WW is very angry at the LBH. Remember the resentment and disrespect? She blames him for everything, and whether it is correct or not, does not matter to her. She's mad and he's her target.

I believe a woman can be hurt, sad, or depressed.....and she would not resent validation from her H. Even a few WW's may be surprised (or caught off guard) by validation....but it doesn't evoke bad behavior/attitude. But when she has that horrible, hateful mindset that Jim's W has had toward him.....I think they can even resent the H trying to validate her. You would think everybody wants validation, right? Wrong! If she is filled with hatred for her LBH, is jealous of his time with the kids, and a zillion other things she can find.....she doesn't want to hear him saying anything that you might consider validating. She takes it the wrong way, and some think the H is mocking her, or insinuating something else, etc.

[Painter]

SH:

Is there a thread with links to useful TedTalks, etc? If not - should we start one? Maybe we could have a repository of ideas, etc for those who are looking for inspiration, ideas, etc.

I know I would not know where to begin when looking for something motivational to get me out of my funk.

If you have reccos for TedTalks, books to read, other online resources, etc. I know we'd have to be careful not to promote competitors on this site - but sometimes you can learn a few things from those who are in the same space.

We're not supposed to post links to other sites here.

[SH_]

IMHO, I don't think they act badly (sour looks, etc.) b/c they are caught off guard by validation from the H. The WW is very angry at the LBH. Remember the resentment and disrespect? She blames him for everything, and whether it is correct or not, does not matter to her. She's mad and he's her target.

I believe a woman can be hurt, sad, or depressed.....and she would not resent validation from her H. Even a few WW's may be surprised (or caught off guard) by validation....but it doesn't evoke bad behavior/attitude. But when she has that horrible, hateful mindset that Jim's W has had toward him.....I think they can even resent the H trying to validate her. You would think everybody wants validation, right? Wrong! If she is filled with hatred for her LBH, is jealous of his time with the kids, and a zillion other things she can find.....she doesn't want to hear him saying anything that you might consider validating. She takes it the wrong way, and some think the H is mocking her, or insinuating something else, etc.

This makes a lot of sense sandi2.
It really does.
That may be why I have stopped trying to do what I think she wants and focus on doing what is right based on sound principles.
In this mindset it is a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.
Jim, this is why I encourage you to stay focused on making decisions that are good for you and your sons and pay her no mind.

[sandi2]

I can't begin to know how many posts I read where the LBH will sort of throw into the mix that he validated her and then......etc. & etc. However, few H's actually tell what they said to the WW. Therefore, it is kind of difficult to really see how it could have sounded to her.

I believe situations vary, and the timing makes a lot of difference, too. I think at some point, when she gets off her rampage.......the timing will be better. If she is filled with bitterness and hate toward her H.......and he starts saying things he believes are statements of validation.........she can see it as him kissing up, mocking, or whatever....(if her H had never been one who would validate her in the past, and now, he's pouring it on). If they are in the process of divorcing and he starts with the words of validation, she could become very suspicious and wonder what he's planning. I think the best way to validate in a case like this, would to look at them when they speak......and nod your head that you hear them. Of course, be careful that you don't nod your head at the wrong time and she thinks you are agreeing with something she wants. . (Oh, you poor souls!)

[albac]

Sandi,

I love the way you post the truth people need to hear. When I first showed up here 6 months ago I didn't take the hard advice as I should have.

Now things have changed and my W told me about the OM I follow your posts more than any other, even though they are the hardest tactics to follow which is why so many of us LBS struggle to stick with them.

I can now see so clearly that I have been a doormat and my W got everything she wanted from me and had no reason to want me back. Now she will have to feel the loss that I have felt for 6 months.

Thanks for your posts Sandi, keeping me from being the weak doormat that I was.

[Vanilla]

As for Ted Talks

Start with Breen Brown, Jane Mcgonigal and her twin sister Kelly, try Amy Cuddy.

Go the whole hog and select psychology and then random picks.

Most smart tvs have the Ted Talks app.

Jane on games theory is great.

None of this is really about marriage and Rs but about becoming the best you can be.

Learn about ACE scores and childhood trauma, about post traumatic growth and then move on to how the brain works, nutrition and connection.

With over 2500 hrs of talks there is so much to learn. You need never watch TV again. Feed your mind and uplift your soul.

Grow because once you know you can never ever unknow.

I watch 10hrs of Ted a week every week and I read for an hour a day.

In case anyone asks I have read DR once a month since October 2014. On the basis we retain about 8% of what we read, I read and read again. So I watch and watch again.

I am growing up and very soon they will give me my big girl panto.

V

[bigybiz]

Vanilla:

Thanks for the suggestions. I know many of us will benefit from your list. Saturday, I have a 2.5 hour car ride on my own. I'll look for podcasts etc that could be appropriate.

[J5K]

IMHO, I don't think they act badly (sour looks, etc.) b/c they are caught off guard by validation from the H. The WW is very angry at the LBH. Remember the resentment and disrespect? She blames him for everything, and whether it is correct or not, does not matter to her. She's mad and he's her target.

I believe a woman can be hurt, sad, or depressed.....and she would not resent validation from her H. Even a few WW's may be surprised (or caught off guard) by validation....but it doesn't evoke bad behavior/attitude. But when she has that horrible, hateful mindset that Jim's W has had toward him.....I think they can even resent the H trying to validate her. You would think everybody wants validation, right? Wrong! If she is filled with hatred for her LBH, is jealous of his time with the kids, and a zillion other things she can find.....she doesn't want to hear him saying anything that you might consider validating. She takes it the wrong way, and some think the H is mocking her, or insinuating something else, etc.

Sandi,

How do I turn this around into something more positive?

Both of us are still in the waiting period now. Custody has not been finalized so we both are in limbo. When I call to talk to the boys she does not even pick up the phone to say hello.

Does this anger ever go away? The only way I know to get her to change is to cater to her every need and we all know that is not going to happen.

[SH_]

How do I turn this around into something more positive

You stay focused on you. You study DB/DR like no other. Have you been working with a DB coach?
You discontinue going down cheeseless tunnels trying to do things with an expectation that she will react in a manner that you want her to do.

You can't control that she won't pick up the phone to say hello. But you can control how you react to it.
I would encourage you to get your nose back Ito the DB books, cadets homework and other things to help you become a better you.
Many have encouraged you at length to keep your focus off of her and keep it squarely on you and your boys.

Does this anger ever go away? The only way I know to get her to change is to cater to her every need and we all know that is not going to happen.

Are you saying that catering to her is how you get her to change? Can you see how this sounds?


JK, I am praying for you my friend.
And I sound like a broken record, but stay in your lane. Stay focused on you. Try harder to not worry about her. It's her circus. Leave it be.

[dream]

How do I turn this around into something more positive?

Both of us are still in the waiting period now. Custody has not been finalized so we both are in limbo. When I call to talk to the boys she does not even pick up the phone to say hello.

Does this anger ever go away? The only way I know to get her to change is to cater to her every need and we all know that is not going to happen.

I agree with SH, you turn this into something positive by focusing on yourself.

When you call and she doesn't answer, you document it and try again later. Personally, I don't think there should be daily phone calls. I think they make it harder for the children to adapt to the transitions. However, if a child wants to call the other parent and expresses this, I would certainly allow it.

I can't say if the anger will ever go away. This isn't something we/you can change. That's why SH is advising you to focus on what you can change/control... yourself.

[Phoebe]

Hi, Jim. I'm just stopping by to let you know that I'm still out here in the ether, wishing you the best.

I'ma bit behind on everything, to be honest, but I know that the advice to keep your energies on you and off of her is the only way to go. Banish the thought "get her to change" from you heart and mind. It's never going to happen. Either she will change herself because she chooses to do so... or she won't. It is out of your control and you are wasting your time and energy stewing on such things.

The only person you can control is yourself. Take the high road at every juncture. Take the best care you can of those beautiful boys when they are in your care, take the best care you can of yourself.


((((((((((JimKao))))))))))

[sandi2]

How do I turn this around into something more positive?

Are we still talking about behaviors during the kid exchanges?

Both of us are still in the waiting period now. Custody has not been finalized so we both are in limbo. When I call to talk to the boys she does not even pick up the phone to say hello.

Jim, I don't think you will be able to turn things around before custody is made official. My advice is to get through with the kids exchange quickly, and focus on just being civil to her. No more, no less.

I think she will continue to bully and punish you every way she can.........as long as she can. That is what she has become.

Does this anger ever go away? The only way I know to get her to change is to cater to her every need and we all know that is not going to happen.

Wait a minute. You tried the catering route, remember?

I think the anger varies with the individual WW. If it stems from years of resentment, it could last for a long time, if she doesn't choose to forgive. If it is anger from selfishly wanting her own way all the time........it may take her dealing with harsh reality before the anger toward you begins to tone down......IDK. She may continue to blame you for everything that goes wrong in her fantasy life. I hope not, but I could see her using you to punish whenever something in her life didn't go exactly the way she wants.

Bottom line is that she isn't going to be nice to you.........not before she sees how the custody goes. No matter what you try right now, she will refuse to respond positively.

[J5K]

SH, Phoebe,

I have had a good week. I had dinner with family twice. Went out with a friend for dinner and went to another friends house tonight for dinner. Been a little sluggish this week, probably from trying to quit smoking.

I have been watching ted talks. Went to acupuncture again.

Dropped off financials at my L's office. Still no word on custody. Ls said that we have enough paper trail to show claim to the house being built in Canada. Also have info on money STBX is hiding.

STBX continues to do a lot of little things that dig her a deeper hole and will not look good during mediation.

Ls are also frustrated as they send docs to STBX's L and there has been no response. They think STBX is hiding some info to use against me but not sure what.

My Ls said that once custody is done, they are going to do everything they can to finish this quickly. They also think the trial date will be moved from end of August to September which means we will have to go back to the 2/2/5 parenting plan and boys will have to start school here.

I appreciate the guidance in keeping me focused. I do find I think less about her during the day as time goes on.

I apologize for being a broken record also, need to head your advice SH and read the DB book again.

[J5K]

How do I turn this around into something more positive?

Are we still talking about behaviors during the kid exchanges?

When I wrote the question I was talking about STBX and I. I spoke with DB coach and he said I was doing better at validating so continue to do that even if it is minimal and make the exchanges quick. He did state that if it does fit into my schedule then I should let her know I could meet her halfway to do the exchange. So I might do that this next time around.

Both of us are still in the waiting period now. Custody has not been finalized so we both are in limbo. When I call to talk to the boys she does not even pick up the phone to say hello.

Jim, I don't think you will be able to turn things around before custody is made official. My advice is to get through with the kids exchange quickly, and focus on just being civil to her. No more, no less.

I think she will continue to bully and punish you every way she can.........as long as she can. That is what she has become.

Agree.

Does this anger ever go away? The only way I know to get her to change is to cater to her every need and we all know that is not going to happen.

Wait a minute. You tried the catering route, remember?

Yes, and she slapped the D papers on me and did not want to negotiate anything.

I think the anger varies with the individual WW. If it stems from years of resentment, it could last for a long time, if she doesn't choose to forgive. If it is anger from selfishly wanting her own way all the time........it may take her dealing with harsh reality before the anger toward you begins to tone down......IDK. She may continue to blame you for everything that goes wrong in her fantasy life. I hope not, but I could see her using you to punish whenever something in her life didn't go exactly the way she wants.

Bottom line is that she isn't going to be nice to you.........not before she sees how the custody goes. No matter what you try right now, she will refuse to respond positively.

I think with my STBX it is a combination of all of the things you pointed out.

I found a book on divorcing a narcissist. The summary basically said that you will always suffer even after the D. The narcissist will continue to file motions and take the S to court to make their lives miserable. I pray that this does not happen in my case but we will see. In the mean time, I may buy this book to prepare myself.

[SH_]

As for Ted Talks

Start with Breen Brown, Jane Mcgonigal and her twin sister Kelly, try Amy Cuddy.

Go the whole hog and select psychology and then random picks.

Most smart tvs have the Ted Talks app.

Jane on games theory is great.

None of this is really about marriage and Rs but about becoming the best you can be.

Learn about ACE scores and childhood trauma, about post traumatic growth and then move on to how the brain works, nutrition and connection.

With over 2500 hrs of talks there is so much to learn. You need never watch TV again. Feed your mind and uplift your soul.

Grow because once you know you can never ever unknow.

I watch 10hrs of Ted a week every week and I read for an hour a day.

In case anyone asks I have read DR once a month since October 2014. On the basis we retain about 8% of what we read, I read and read again. So I watch and watch again.

I am growing up and very soon they will give me my big girl panto.

V

Phenomenal advice.
I read and watch much, but have some catching up to do to hit these goals.
Wise woman you are Sweet Lady V.

[J5K]

So this week I thought I would be nice and meet STBX halfway to pick up the boys. When she texted me yesterday about coordinating the time and place, I texted back that I was able to move my schedule around to meet her.

5 minutes later the phone rings and I speak with the boys. Then STBX gets on the phone and is all cordial with me and sounds happy.

Then comes the drive to the exchange. STBX starts to text me about babysitter and how unfit she is to watch the boys. I respond to one text only. The remaining issues I knew we would discuss when we met. As soon as I open the passenger door to the minivan, she started to spew accusations about babysitter and that I knew about these things (right in front of the boys).

I stated calmly that I would handle it and that I have come home unannounced with no issues and have spoken with the boys in the past to ensure they are safe.

(Doors are now closed to the minivan)

I then expressed the following in the parking lot facing away from the boys: STBX, I feel frustrated when I do nice things for you and then get accused of doing something wrong every time we meet. I will no longer do any favors such as meeting halfway.

She then got more angry spewed more and called her L.

My Ls sent the list of questions for admission at the end of the day. STBX will probably get these questions tomorrow which will throw her into more of a tizzy.

Mondays are so much fun!

[Vanilla]

Jim

A few things ok.

Document and record xWH. The courts aren't able to see what isnot documented and it's easy to label abuse it goes both ways.

It's not helpful to label your WW with a diagnosis, label her behaviour instead. Whilst you may be convinced she has a disorder, realise that labelling may hold you back and she hasn't been diagnosed.

It might be easier to think of her as having issues which create high conflict style behaviour instead. Google high conflict and the law and see what emerges. I am planning an extension to the abuse thread on high conflict behaviour.

After your D then by all means go the whole hog on labelling and analysis. You will need a good copy of the DSM and type B to know the difference between the types and there is good quality healing available.

In order to recover it's a case of looking insidea and building yourself. To make yourself less vulnerable in my opinion you will need large doses of self love.

For the moment it's enough to get by, truly it is and healing comes quickest at the end of the grieving process.

Jim you are a remarkable man and anger is your friend, it is a great motivator for you, let it be so, don't hold back. It's going to be ok in that. You are a man amoung men, an extraordinary person with enormous capacity for love and joy.

Know this, great joy will come, great great joy, and it comes from your family, your boys.

I am proud to post to you Jim.

V

[SH_]

Jim

A few things ok.

Document and record xWH. The courts aren't able to see what isnot documented and it's easy to label abuse it goes both ways.

It's not helpful to label your WW with a diagnosis, label her behaviour instead. Whilst you may be convinced she has a disorder, realise that labelling may hold you back and she hasn't been diagnosed.

It might be easier to think of her as having issues which create high conflict style behaviour instead. Google high conflict and the law and see what emerges. I am planning an extension to the abuse thread on high conflict behaviour.

After your D then by all means go the whole hog on labelling and analysis. You will need a good copy of the DSM and type B to know the difference between the types and there is good quality healing available.

In order to recover it's a case of looking insidea and building yourself. To make yourself less vulnerable in my opinion you will need large doses of self love.

For the moment it's enough to get by, truly it is and healing comes quickest at the end of the grieving process.

Jim you are a remarkable man and anger is your friend, it is a great motivator for you, let it be so, don't hold back. It's going to be ok in that. You are a man amoung men, an extraordinary person with enormous capacity for love and joy.

Know this, great joy will come, great great joy, and it comes from your family, your boys.

I am proud to post to you Jim.

V

Yes, what V said.
Your a good dude.
Protect yourself and those lil sons of yours.
She is the Tasmanian Devil now spinning wildly out of control and you do not need to be caught in the path.
Be well today and have some good times with your kids.

[J5K]

Jim

A few things ok.

Document and record xWH. The courts aren't able to see what isnot documented and it's easy to label abuse it goes both ways.

I am going to have to go to recording all face to face conversations in order to ensure she calms down or defers the conversations I have with STBX to another time and not in front of the boys.

It's not helpful to label your WW with a diagnosis, label her behaviour instead. Whilst you may be convinced she has a disorder, realise that labelling may hold you back and she hasn't been diagnosed.

It might be easier to think of her as having issues which create high conflict style behaviour instead. Google high conflict and the law and see what emerges. I am planning an extension to the abuse thread on high conflict behaviour.

After your D then by all means go the whole hog on labelling and analysis. You will need a good copy of the DSM and type B to know the difference between the types and there is good quality healing available.

I agree with this. I could label all day long in the end it does not matter. I have done research on high conflict divorce and although a lot of the articles lead back to narcissism no one will really know if she truly is. The only thing I really know is that STBX does not want to be with me and wants to be a SAHM and have me move to Toronto to co-parent.

I purchased an audio book on high conflict divorce and am currently listening to it. I am not only reading these types of books to learn how to address issues with STBX, I am also reflecting to see if I have certain traits or characteristics that I need to improve on in order to have a better R with STBX in the future.

In order to recover it's a case of looking insidea and building yourself. To make yourself less vulnerable in my opinion you will need large doses of self love.

For the moment it's enough to get by, truly it is and healing comes quickest at the end of the grieving process.

Thank you again for this. I had a really good day yesterday, did not have a cigarette all day, then lit up at 10pm. Why, because I enjoyed it and it helped me relax from all the BS that happened that evening.

It is just a shame that STBX cannot forgive. I have done almost everything she has asked except completely quit smoking which I can overcome this week and moving to Toronto. She is willing to spend thousands of dollars and create tension between people though and does not realize she is taking this money away from the boys in the long run.

Her BIL stated that there is tension between MIL and SIL every time my boys visit with their mom because MIL only focuses on helping STBX with her kids and does nothing for SIL. Both MIL and STBX pay no attention to FIL and his comments about not wanting the boys in his house and how it is not his responsibility to raise them.

BIL also stated that STBX has told her family to go NC with me. STBX and her family do not know that BIL and I have had a few conversations. We talk about his S4 and how my boys interact together when they spend time with their cousin. BIL and I are not close but we both respect each other and understand the dynamic of the family we married into.

Jim you are a remarkable man and anger is your friend, it is a great motivator for you, let it be so, don't hold back. It's going to be ok in that. You are a man amoung men, an extraordinary person with enormous capacity for love and joy.

Know this, great joy will come, great great joy, and it comes from your family, your boys.

I am proud to post to you Jim.

V

V,

I am honored to have your support and the many others who have posted on my threads (SH, SuperSara, Rose888, Sandi2, Painter, Phoebe, Rich4j, and so many more)! Thank you all for grounding me again and helping me find myself.

I am no longer angry at her or anyone else. I am angry at her behavior though and those who support and appease that type of behavior like MIL.

I may be slow at making decisions, but I also know I need to focus on how to heal and deal with STBX long term as this resentment will fester in her for a very long time and I need to be able to control the dynamic of the situation for me and my boys.

[Vanilla]

Now let's just talk about resentment.

Know this you do not have to forgive WW, not in any way at all. In fact my philosophy is that is not your job. It is her higher power and Karma.

In my thinking generally those who ask for forgiveness get it.

I will say resentment is a behaviour which will hold YOU back, lovely Jim let that go. The need for revenge, to see another suffer for the things they have done will impact you.

Choose to let resentment go, you will feel so much better with you.

Resentment leads to behaviours you may find yourself unhappy with.

Let go.

V

[J5K]

Man this just gets better.

STBX calls me and asks who watched the kids today. Sitter knows about STBX's accusations. I confronted STBX and stated that I was home. (I did come home 3 hours early). I also went and bought webcams to watch my boys while I am at work, did not tell STBX yet.

STBX asked if babysitter was going to continue to watch the boys. I stated that I did not know, which I do not. She got upset that I would not tell her who will be watching them tomorrow and the rest of the week. Have to talk to L about this because STBX is trying to still control things.

I stated to STBX if she is that concerned about the boys safety that she should come down to ensure they are safe. She then stated she lives at her parents in Toronto.

She then tried to say that only her parents watch the boys and I said how do I know that.

She said she has a right to know who is watching her kids. I told her to ask through her lawyer next time. I am tired of these mind games. I lost my cool a bit during this conversation and told STBX I do not want to discuss this any further unless she agrees to have this discussion on a conference call with the Ls. I hung up. STBX tries to call back three times and the fourth time leaves a VM and then sends a text asking to speak with the boys. I called her back and she spoke with the boys.

I just find it very ironic that the boys would not say anything at all until the exchange even though I ask them how their day was with the babysitter. STBX is very calculating.

I only had 3 hours of sleep last night and have not been sleeping well at all even though I have been taking melatonin.

I am going to chalk this up to a small dip in the rollercoaster and mello out again and just enjoy my kids.

[SH_]

Hang in there JK.

I do know the pain and agony of crazy conversations with an angry W.
You are weathering it as well as can be expected. I know. I have been through it.
Keep documenting this stuff for your L.
Hopefully the legal stuff can wrap up soon so you can go by what is mandated.

Keep looking for ways to get a restful sleep.
Some extreme things that I did that worked was staying up all night one time and then the exhaustion set in and I got a good nights rest resetting my sleep clock.
Do the warm baths, warm milk etc. until you hit something that works for you. It will come. It will come.
And being rested does help you keep your cool more for the explosions.

[J5K]

Now let's just talk about resentment.

Know this you do not have to forgive WW, not in any way at all. In fact my philosophy is that is not your job. It is her higher power and Karma.

In my thinking generally those who ask for forgiveness get it.

I will say resentment is a behaviour which will hold YOU back, lovely Jim let that go. The need for revenge, to see another suffer for the things they have done will impact you.

Choose to let resentment go, you will feel so much better with you.

Resentment leads to behaviours you may find yourself unhappy with.

Let go.

V

V,

Thank you for the follow up. I don't know if I am just antsy or what. I would forgive her if she asked to come back to the M. I know she won't.

I don't resent her. I hate the behavior but that is hers to deal with and live with the rest of her life.

There are probably times when I do speak with STBX which is rare nowadays that it sounds like I resent her, but I think I have done a decent job lately of validating her.

I hope I have been taking the high road and that good things will come out of this.

[J5K]

Oops, here is the new thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...250#Post2694250