What Should I Be Doing (Piecing 7)

[Coconut]

previous thread

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...t=11&page=1

[Coconut]

I'm going to post this (from Sandi2) again because I relate very well to some of these and want to keep it accessible.



Not compromising your integrity. Standing strong for what you believe is right, and do not negotiate with what is wrong.

Setting boundaries and enforcing consequences if they are not honored.

Do not avoid conflict with your W. Stand up to her and show no fear.

Do not go out of your way or be self-sacrificing, to please your W (especially when she's wayward).

Let the self-confidence ooze with every fiber in your body.

Do not take on the responsibility of "making her happy".

Stop agreeing with everything she says. Learn to say, "no". Immediately address the issues you have a problem with.

Do no be defensive.

Stop trying to "explain" yourself to your W, in hopes it will stop her from getting angry at you.

Do not accept being the center of her jokes, her rudeness, or her put-downs of you. No eye-rolling, talking to you through the kids, or slamming things around to show her bad attitude. You need to have personal boundaries about these types of treatment from her (or anyone else).

Stop letting your W always run the show (being the boss). You are the man with the b@lls, so don't be afraid to take charge.

Do not show that you are seeking approval, especially her approval.

Do not meekly accept her, "Well, you'll just have to settle with ______ (fill in the blank with some attitude/behavior/action). You always have a choice. Never play the victim.

Do not make her so-called "needs" your priority while she's being disrespectful, b'tchy, manipulative, etc. Do not give more than she's giving back, until she changes her attitude/behavior.

Do not be passive! I can't say it enough......NEVER be passive-aggressive. It is sooooo unattractive.

Are you ready for me to stop? smile Some of these statements may sound like a good case for argument. (Especially if some woman reads this who has/had an unkind H). However, I didn't go into detail, and kept it blunt. If you have the nice guy syndrome, your antenna may go up and say, "But this doesn't feel like the right thing to do. I have always......." This is not about becoming an a$$. It's about showing strength in the interaction with your WW. You will need to read/study about the NG syndrome. The Internet is full of information just waiting for you. You don't have to stop being a nice person and become a jerk. You don't need to go the extreme opposite. It's one thing to be a good person, a polite and kind person. But the NG Syndrome is not a good thing, and it's not what women want in a H. Any woman who has been M to a man who has the NGS, knows what I am talking about. It kills her attraction for him.

[Coconut]

Well, it's been awhile so I figure I'll update my sitch. The thing is, I don't really have much to update.

We haven't had a R talk in 2 weeks, and I've been fine with that, just kinda living in the moment feels good. Although, I did ask her 1 question a few days ago.

I asked her to tell me about any contact she has had with OM since she cut contact the day after BD. She again swears that she hasn't had any communication with him, other than the night that I posted the texts on firefighter group chat, she said that day she tried to call him to give him a heads up but he never answered. She added that at that point she was convinced we were done and so she didn't consider my feelings when trying to reach out to warn him.

I told her that while I understand her making that call, I would have preferred she had told me about it at some point rather than waiting until I asked.

Other than that 4 minute conversation, we have just been living in the moment. We definitely are not hysterically bonding, but we are intimate once or twice a week. Our non-sexual physical touch is off the charts, snuggling every night, holding hands whenever we are walking together, arms wrapped around each other when standing next to each other, back rubs, etc. It's pretty nice.

Emotionally, I feel good. I find myself being less worried about what she is doing, I do find myself trusting her, but I also feel like I would be able to handle whatever crap she could throw my way. I have been plenty happy/satisfied doing my own thing and have been taking full advantage of the time she spends in the fire academy doing me stuff.

I don't do it very often, but I do still occasionally snoop to verify that there isn't anything going on, I think I've checked once in the last two weeks. To be honest, she has been so forthcoming in letting me know where she is and what she's doing all the time, that I don't know how she could be doing anything. In addition, with the attention that she is giving to me/us, I would be hard pressed to believe that she could also be giving attention to someone else.

Overall, things are going as well as could have hoped for, I don't really think about the A at all, but I definitely don't feel the same unconditional love that I used to feel for my W. To be honest, the physical part of our R is better than ever, but the emotional connection sometimes feels very forced on my side. We are having fun together, I am happy, I'm just not blindly in love.

Still lots of work to do, but we've come a long way in the last month.

[RSG]

Sounds like you're doing great Cnut.

Living in the moment means your expectations don't have time to fester and cause you anxiety (don't I know, it's SO easy to say). You're happy, your love tank seems to be near capacity (your tank runneth over? lol). She continues to let you know what she's up to and that there's nobody but you.

Not going to be perfect in a month, but you're in a great place.

[Coconut]

Ok, so I'm gonna update this in pieces, because I type on iPad and it takes me a while and I don't have much time right now, but want to start.

So on Monday i posted update and all was good, but there was one thing that bothered me a little, when I checked phone records to see her calls to OM the night I outed A on FF group chat, I saw 3 or 4 one minute calls spaced a few minutes apart, but then the last one was three minutes (she had said he never answered), so I asked her about that and she said she left him a voicemail. I said that 3 minutes is a long voiecmail, and she said she left all the information about how I got texts, that I had told her I deleted them, what they said, etc. I dropped it, but didn't feel as though she was being truthful.

At night two days ago, we were messing around in bed, and I tried adjusting position to 69 and she quickly said something like "I don't" then shut up, so I asked where you going to say you don't want to go down on me, and she said yes. I asked why, and she said there's no reason, I swear... So trigger, I start thinking is it because she'll be kissing someone else, or she's "reserving" that for someone else, so I totally back away from everything, but then she pushed for sex. I obliged but wasn't really feeling it emotionally, so she did all the work and she came, but I didn't. Then she kept going and I gently stopped her, she asked "don't you want to finish" and I said, no it's alright.

I had a hard time sleeping that night, so after she fell asleep I grabbed her phone, checked downloaded apps and found two, whatsapp and notrace.im near the top of the list, which I believe that means they were downloaded recently (but I'm not sure if that's guaranteed that they were downloaded recently)....

To be continued

[Coconut]

so I asked her about the two apps the next day, she said that she downloaded them a few months ago, but that she doesn't use them (I had checked her purchased apps before and never saw them, possible I missed them but not likely). I mentioned they were near the top of her purchase history which means that they were downloaded recently, and she said she didn't know why they were there.

I then downloaded the whatsapp on my phone, and entered her phone number and it showed her account and said she had been on it approx. 2 hrs prior, (it is connected to her facebook so I don't know if that meant she used the app or facebook 2 hrs before). then today, I put her phone number in again and saw that she deleted her account.

then the following text string happened:

Me - So are you going to let me know why you downloaded the Whatsapp and notrace.im apps? I see you deleted your Whatsapp account.

W - I'm telling you that I downloaded that awhile ago. I have no idea why it popped up now. I don't use either app and I deleted the Whatsapp because I don't use it and I thought it wwould make you happy.

W - At this point you can either choose to believe me since I've done everything to show you that I'm trying to make this work or not but I can't keep defending myself. I'm just not going to

M (I sent at same time as she sent her second text)- ok, just so you are aware, I have gone through all of your apps before, and those two were not on there. I'm not saying it's not possible they just went to the top of the list and I just didn't notice them before, but I am really struggling with believing that.

W - Ok, I don't know what to tell you. I'm just exhausted at this point.

M - I understand it's exhausting, it is really wearing on me too.


So that's where I'm at right now. I'll be honest, I don't see how she can be carrying on any outside relationship. We are ALWAYS together at work and home, and other than when she goes to fire fighter class or one of us goes out to do something, we are always together. us going out without the other is very sporadic.

So now I'm going to sit on this information for a little and consider what I want to do. My initial thoughts are :

- Believe her and don't do anything
- Not believe her and don't do anything
- Not believe her and ask her to move out of MBR
- Not believe her and move out of house

I'm not emotional, during the conversations on this I never lost my temper or accusatory, I asked very matter of factly. With that said, she was defensive, and at one point raised her voice and I stated firmly that I will not be spoken to that way and she calmed down.

I'm not taking any action right now, I'm just thinking about what I've found out for the next day or two, see where I am then.
I will continue conversation with her, but I have been a little distant because that's how I feel.

[Georgia Bulldogs]

Quick thought.

I'm a fan of trust but verify.

You can't ask a known liar (as a recent foggy wayward) for the truth about things when you won't trust or believe her answer anyway. You are trying to rebuild and restore love in your relationship and interrogations don't help.

INSTEAD - only ask questions or have discussions when you actually know the truth but until then, snoop to verify (not constantly) from time to time to inspect what you expect. Don't ask her for the truth when you can just get it. In fact, it's harder to get the truth when you are constantly asking for it because it puts her on guard. Again, snooping all the time is hard on you and not advisable but when you find or stumble on something truly suspicious like this that you know you won't trust the answer or explanation your wife gives you - MAYBE it would be a good time to plant a voice activated digital recorder in her car or something like that so you can ACTUALLY verify the truth rather than relying on her words.

The problem right now is you PRESUME (or worry) she's recently downloaded those apps and is using them to MAYBE communicate with the OM (or anyone else she's secretly communicating with). It's conceivably she is. Her and OM might not have a "relationship" anymore but they could be continuing their hurtful supportive "friendship" in secret because she thinks it's no big deal, that OM is important to her, that maybe she wants to keep OM on the hook, so to speak, in case this recovery thing doesn't work out OR because she simply wants too (entitlement). Or - it's actually nothing, you are mistaken and you are making a big deal out of nothing. By asking her you still don't know and your instincts are telling you not to trust her....so you're gut may be on to something but instead of hounding her and upsetting her (if she's lying, she'll probably continue lying until actually busted), just act as though you trust her and verify more thoroughly independently.

SO another option to your list might be:

- Believe her and don't do anything
- Believe her BUT VERIFY independently



Did want to add: got a kick out of her telling you "At that point I thought we weren't recovering and didn't consider your feelings" as if she is considering them now ("I have to keep working with OM", "I'm not going to continue to defend myself" and "I'm just not going to") or was considering your feelings previous to that day while she was actually carrying on with OM.

[LiM]

Coconut,

Is her phone an iPhone? If so, you can launch iTunes and click on iTunes Store > Account > enter password > Purchase History > See All

You can then see the dates when things were purchased (free apps show up here too).

[BluWave]

C-nut,

I can't quite put my finger on it. What is it exactly you are looking for? I don't think you are ever going to find it. So perhaps it is one of 2 things, 1. you want her to read loud and clear that nothing gets by you, or 2. you want to find something, anything. Whether its 1, 2, or both, I think you are keeping her at arms length. And that's ok, you don't have to be close/connected all the time. I just see from my perspective that it is you that seems to be keeping the wedge between you. Maybe you need more time.

-Blu

[Coconut]

Lim, I looked online how to find out, and I did look on iTunes... She told me she downloaded it months ago, and it was two weeks ago, actually it was rhe exact same day she wrote me that letter...

Blu, I wasn't keeping her at arms length, I drew her in close, which I think is what was making me nervous, it was too easy for her. Which is why it made me nervous that everytime I verified I would find something small, didn't prove anything but there was always something... But now that I saw she downloaded the app 2 weeks ago I know I can't trust her.