Good Heavens - so many threads with so much insight. TrueGritter, Sandi2, Spirit, Cld, Cadet, M Go Blue, angelica, WaHo, job, mentalradio - too many others to list that I'm forgetting. THANK YOU for sharing your own stories. It's been a relief. You all remind me that I'm not crazy, I'm just in a crazy situation, and I've got to make sense of it by myself.
I took WaHo's advice and let W keep the rest of her babysitting money. When the 2nd week came around, she placed it on my side of our dresser. I left it there. Many days passed before she offered it in a friendly way. I casually said "keep it". She asked (still friendly), "are you sure? With everything you said?" In a distracted tone, I said "yeah". (Um, I said very little there, she did 10 minutes worth of talking/screaming/blaming/crying.) Most of the money is still there.
Did I pull a 180? As part of the work on myself I've been trying to let go of my need to be right. I've started learning this to keep my mouth shut while W starts making up more lies about me or our M.
Since taking my disagreement about out budget and turning it into her spew, W has barely slept in the bed. She's slept on the couch since. I always stayed on my side of the bed even if she's not there. After 3 nights of her on the couch, I started sleeping in the middle of the bed. It's my way of saying "I'm not expecting you." One night she did sleep in the bed, and another she woke up at 5 AM and she came to our bed. I don't know if I'm doing a 180, but I wanted to say that this doesn't bother me.
A week after her spew was her 39th birthday. Before I left for work in the morning, I left her two wrapped gifts on the dining room table so she could open them without me there. I bought a pop-up birthday card and coached S7 and S4 to do a trick for her when the card was opened. I took the family out to dinner that night. After the kids were asleep, she came to me and said she really liked her gifts and dinner. It was a nice birthday for her. She was kind of matter-of-fact about it. She put my gifts to use right away.
Since letting her spew all over me about how I'm the biggest a$$h@le ever, she has been a lot more communicative. She's still very reserved, so I mirror her tone. I don't offer any real response beside general validation. She has asked for a couple of usual favors, has cooked a few times, and has joked once or twice about the kids. She has also appeared partially undressed to temperature check me. This is all offset by her willingness to leave the house at a moment's notice to hang out with MLC Friend #1, as well as disappearing to the back porch or attic for phone calls with OM.
What bothers me the most now is that, besides my sons, I am only motivated to hang in there if I regard that she's struggling. I am detaching and focusing on my children, but this woman does live with me. I've read many LBS's see the "dead" or "lost" look in their MLCer's eyes. I've only seen that in my W three times. If I had more moments like that, I would have more resolve to keep going. I read on another thread that "MLC is a massive cocktail of depression and confusion." Seeing her in depression would not make me happy, but it would increase my empathy towards her. My problem is I am not clingy or desperate. I am angry, I want her out. She should be living with OM. I only see W smiling at her cell phone and giggling like a teenager on the phone with MLC Friend #1 or OM. She is running left and right trying to arrange social events with grade school alumni. She is hustling to get anybody into doing anything with her - painting classes, karaoke, movies in the park, fitbit exercises, etc. I see a continual party in formation and nothing else.
I just want some evidence that she's in the tunnel, that she's struggling. I feel bad for feeling this way, but it would remind me why I should keep her in this house.
M: 49, W: 45 T: 22 M: 15 S14, S11, S9 BD: Jan '16 W files: Oct '16 D final: June '18
Can you please tell us a bit about your wife's childhood? In particular, I would like to know if her parents got divorced before she turned 15, who filed for divorce, if her mom had affairs, the way she treated her father, and so on.
I'm so sorry for the length, everybody. I have nowhere else to go.
(Cld - Thanks for all your posts out there. Lots of insight. Bless you.)
WIFE'S CHILDHOOD: In a nutshell, f$%king awful for her.
Born poor in Central America. Youngest of three girls. Father was alcoholic who beat mother regularly. W was conceived because father impregnated mother for 3rd time hoping to keep her around. Mother and 3 daughters literally sneaked away in the middle of the night.
Family emigrated to Chicago when W was 4 years old. Moved around a lot. W did not have her own bed for years, had to share with mother or aunt. W considered milk & cereal an extravagance. Ate so much re-fried black beans that she refuses it now. Some nights, mother said there was no food and she didn't have time to cook because she was going out. Told W to go find food at a friend's house. Mother confiscated all money W received at every birthday she had - never saw a dime of it. Family was black sheep because mother was only one who was divorced. W describes her mother as angry, tough, hard-drinking woman who attracted the exact same kind of men. Stories I've heard from relatives over the years verify this. Mother was absent for most of her childhood. Working 2 jobs at first, then working 1 job and spending free time partying and chasing the wrong kind of men.
Raised mostly by her 2 older sisters (by 6 years and 8 years) who were teenagers that didn't want to bring little sister anywhere. A common occurrence was for her older sisters to take W to the nearby park and make her sit on a swing and wait alone while they walked off to talk to boys (thinking of this always makes me cry). Older sisters fought constantly over clothes, money and boys. Oldest sister (R.R.) kept an eye on my W and raised her decently she said. Middle sister (E.H.) was incredibly cruel towards her. If E.H. was really angry about anything she would punch my W repeatedly to get the anger out. E.H. would also throw shoes at her (E.H.'s anger issues persist to this day). W said her motivation during childhood at home was to watch TV and stay out of everybody's way.
Mother did physically and verbally abuse my W, only luck was she wasn't around often. My W speaks of abuse from her mother and sister with some composure, but she is openly hostile when she describes her grandmother. Says her grandmother was mean and condescending and distancing towards all her grandkids.
Father followed family to Chicago to reconcile with mother - no luck. W can probably count number of times she's seen him on both hands. Father drifted to Texas and then California, had 3 kids with two other women. Got re-born in the church. Found his way back to Chicago after many years - living by modest means with a new woman. Father asked to see daughters just before he died 2 years ago from cancer. Asked W for forgiveness, she said yes. With father's death, W seemed unmoved and just going through the motions. Never really knew him at all.
Only father figures were two uncles. R.O. was the same as her own father - an abusive drunk towards his wife and brutal with his son. R.M. was a kind man but super religious and a bit distant to anyone that didn't agree with his dogma. Mother picked bad men. Most of them came and went, only a few kept around for any time. One of the boyfriends who stayed around sexually abused my W - more than once. Don't remember exactly when this happened because she told me this story only once early in our R and never mentioned it again. W was somewhere between 8 and 12 when she was sexually abused. When it became apparent that this boyfriend might be hanging around, W confronted her mother absolutely hysterical and threatened to run away. Mother was so freaked out by my W's crying and screaming that she broke it off with molesting boyfriend. Don't think my W told her mother what was going on. Molesting boyfriend was part of social circle within family - so my W had to see him on and off at family functions for several more years.
10 years old - W meets a brother and sister who are to become her best friends to this day, M.F. and N.F. Their home is a haven for my W. Loving mother ("Lee"), always with hot food, stereo and board games available. Stable, steady household. My W says she spent as much time there are she could. Part of her grew up there.
Here's the kicker, what triggered my W's MLC is Lee's death. Lee had minor health problems for the past few years. Went into hospital with migraines. Cat scan, biopsy - never woke from surgery. W was with M.F. and N.F. the entire time and saw Lee on ventilating machine for 3 days before she died.
It took me a while to figure out that Lee was the symbol of my W's safe space, and now she was gone. My W was confronting her own mortality while at the exact same time watching the woman who gave her safety go away forever.
M: 49, W: 45 T: 22 M: 15 S14, S11, S9 BD: Jan '16 W files: Oct '16 D final: June '18
You are in a very bad situation, your wife may be called a chaos child, who grew up in a very sick environment. Her chaos engine in her head has turned on and now you have become the enemy. Her midlife crisis will last between two and five years and it could get very ugly for you. Please try to protect your children as much as possible, and your financial assets. If I were you I would take the current situation very seriously, this is going to hit you very hard. This is helping me a lot with my wife's midlife crisis. I am sure it will help you as well. Hugs http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2686806#Post2686806
Last edited by job; 07/29/1602:31 PM. Reason: To remove reference of author on another site.
I know about the "Chaos Kid". My W has already demonstrated most of this behavior.
I've already identified that the "PEACE /PERFECT, Softhearted woman" is my wife to a down to a T.
I am focusing on protecting my finances, GALing and being the best father I can be to my 3 sons.
I am trying to remind myself that as much pain as I am in, she may be worse off than me. Although all I see right now from her is someone trying to party.
I am relying on the DB boards, and my friends, to remind myself that I am not crazy, although it feels that way sometimes.
Thank you for looking out for me, Cld. It's a rough road and it's hard getting used to it.
I have edited your posting, i.e., as stated in our OnLine Community Board Rules, we do not allow recommendations of non-DivorceBusting books / websites / blogs etc.
Last edited by job; 07/29/1602:32 PM.
M: 49, W: 45 T: 22 M: 15 S14, S11, S9 BD: Jan '16 W files: Oct '16 D final: June '18
Brubeck - good job turning inward to look at changes you want to make within you for you! Kudos to you for doing the heavy lifting there.
Well, my heart breaks for your wife. Thank goodness she found kindness and love in a friend's home.
So, you are looking for evidence that she's struggling in the tunnel? Well, she is a grown mother of 3. Any normally functioning woman would be revolving her life around those boys at this stage of your kids' lives. I was a stay-at-home mom and it was full on raising two boys, never mind three. To me, it seems quite obvious she is trying to escape her life. The partying, socializing, time talking with OM, holing herself up in her room, etc.: all quintessential MLC band-AIDS. Maybe right now, it seems to her, that this is the road to Shangri-La. It's heavy duty replay. No mom who is in a good place in her life would be opting for those things over time with her kids.
So, I can tell you from my live-in MLCer situation some things I have seen for which you may want to be on the lookout. I think the live-in MLCer recreates their childhood environment to a "t." I think the projections with this brand of MLCer are particularly brutal. I have become the authority figure through which my h is working through all those unresolved issues. Sometimes, he has said things verbatim that he said to his mother or she said to him. And though I have seen the angry teenager 95% of the time, I have also seen glimpses of the MOST adorable, vulnerable 6 year old boy, too! The first time I saw him was just a few weeks after BD #2. And I missed it, at first! I hugged him and validated because he was so oddly 'small.' But none of it made sense until I read about the various children coming out. Now, I recognize the little boy instantaneously. His words voice hurts and his eyes have sadness, not the shark eyes.
So, my advice? Be on the lookout for the little girl to come out. I wonder if that wasn't her leaving you her hard earned babysitting money, just as her mom forced her to do?
With the live-in MLCer, the faster you stop thinking of her as your wife, the better. I believe she's systematically recreating that home to grow up again. Although the projection will be heavy, you have the choice to let her make it her childhood home or to make it Lee's house.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
Your wife can become very dangerous, she can make false allegations against you, and she could land you in jail. She could take the children away from you and destroy you financially. If I were you that's what I would do: 1. I would embrace her midlife crisis and encourage her to go for it. 2. I would find a way for the two of you to live in separate places. 3. I would encourage her to meet the other man and live her passion with him freely. 4. I would hide all your assets and/or sell them. 5. I would allow her to come to see the children whenever she wants at your house, but she needs to sleep at her place. This is all counter intuitive, but it might actually save your marriage because it will allow her to move faster through her midlife crisis. I hope it helps.
Please read and re-read what HaWho has posted to you. She has done an excellent job of dealing w/her live in MLC/teenager. It took her a while to figure things out, but her sense of humor has help her along the way.
I would not encourage her to move out. However, if you both are living under one roof, you will need to think about remaining in the MBR. She can live in another bedroom for the time being. She will need to make the decision to move out and if the pressure becomes too much for her, she will try things to get you to kick her out so that she can say you did so. Don't be the bad guy...allow her to do this on her own. If she gets under your skin, walk away, find something else to do, but don't kick her out. Whatever you do. don't walk away from your home. This can be considered abandonment in some state.
If she should move out, she will need to work w/you on a visitation schedule to see the children. I would suggest that she take them to her new place or find somewhere to be w/them. I wouldn't suggest using your place as the visitation site as she needs to understand that she will need to parent them while they are in her care. This is all part of helping them understand that life as they knew it won't remain the same one a separation/divorce takes place.
As for hiding your assets and/or selling them...do the right thing. See a lawyer to find out what you can and can't do at this time. If you need to set up a separate account w/just your name on it, do so. Hiding and/or selling assets right now will not look good because you will need to account for those items during the discovery process, if it comes to that. I would also suggest that you watch your credit cards and make sure she's not over spending on the joint ones. I would also do a credit report periodically to see what's going under your roof.
Remember...actions speak louder than words. Any changes you make, you make them for YOU. Those changes must become permanent and you have to be happy w/them. Don't make them just to win her back or think that they will wake her up...she'll know if you are playing games.
Your wife's crisis will take as long as it takes. It depends upon her and how she deals w/her issues. It could be longer, shorter or she could very well remain stuck. However, it's not up to you to rush the process. Her clock is very slow and she won't realize just how long she's been in a fog until much later.
One last thing...document. Keep a log because this will help you if you need to go back and reference something at a later date. Keep the log in a safe place.
Continue to post. We've got a lot of great people in the DB world that are more than willing to help you navigate the Yellow Brick Road.
WaHo - good catch about the babysitting money being a knee-jerk childhood reflex. I never thought of it that way.
I already asked her to consider leaving the house. I tried to put a positive spin on it, along the lines of "take some time for yourself to figure out what you want to do". She flatly refused. I know she won't do it. She has no income of her own.
She may want freedom and independence, but she's just too damn comfortable in our house. I married an Angel, but my W's biggest problem has always been her laziness. Even with the mania of MLC sending her heart/brain/soul into overdrive, she gets frequent lazy spells. I may be Satan to her now, but she has spent nearly 2 decades with a husband who agreed to every creature comfort she wanted in her home (that we could afford).
Also - her mother lives with us and her aunts visit regularly and they are all gossipers. It will be known immediately and she will be disowned in the eyes of her family for abandoning her children.
In weekend news, she spent the entire weekend asking me if I was mad at her about something. She came home drunk Friday night and tried to have sex with me (ain't gonna happen, cheater), and on Sunday night she tried to initiate a pragmatic heart-to-heart that I thought was the result of my PMA & detachment, but it turns out she came to talk to me at the suggestion of OM.
More later, when I have time. Thanks for listening. It helps.
M: 49, W: 45 T: 22 M: 15 S14, S11, S9 BD: Jan '16 W files: Oct '16 D final: June '18
I'm sorry - the abusive mother lives with YOU? Come again?
I was going to suggest that you let the mom know that she is cheating on you ..... but then, realized this is the formerly abusive mother, and you don't want to give her any ammunition.
I'm waiting to hear what it was the OM wanted her to talk to you about. Is he trying to fix your marriage? (Oh, how gracious of him). Or is he proposing some sharing arrangement? (Umm...no.)
One thing to consider though - your wife is only 2 years postpartum, this could be some prolonged or delayed postpartum mental breakdown (they do occur). OR - what you see as her "laziness" could be fatigue from a medical condition - my ex would have said the same thing about me, when I was actually suffering from Graves disease (overactive thyroid) and then hypothyroidism as a consequence of the treatment.
