My wife walked out 3

[Coconut]

RSG, the calls are not pursuit, they are about control. Remember, it's not about avoiding at all cost, it's about not caring if you talk to her or not. If she's calling at times that you don't want her to, tell her not to call during those times (like at work). If your busy, you can answer the call, tell her your busy and either that you will call back later or she can call you back later.

When you talk, keep it short, end conversation as soon as you can, hang up first, move on with your day.

Personally, I have a feeling you like the fact that she is calling you, you enjoy seeing that number pop up on your cell, and I think that is what she is counting on. Your a good plan B in her eyes, that's what she's doing.

[sandi2]

Sandi, can you take a look at my last few posts and tell me what you think?

I have gotten a little behind, but from what I am reading in this thread, you're doing really cool Clint....

She has repeatedly said she is so sorry. The best answer I have ever heard as a response from the LBH is to say, "It's not that simple anymore".

For the LBH to see his WW's fantasy crumbling is not always as satisfying as he may have imagined it. Even if he is angry and wants to see her finally getting smacked with a heavy dose of reality.....it's difficult to see her about to hit rock bottom. And, not every WW hits rock bottom. I didn't...(Thank God)....and thanks to this board. Rock bottom is not an absolute necessity. Even hitting bottom doesn't turn the worst of the WW's. I do believe that they have to experience a loss before things really start to open their eyes to what they have done. It may not be the loss the LBH's logical mind thinks it will be, but it will be a certain something that will really slap her in the face. First she gets her eyes opened, and then a lot of other things need to be processed in her.

From where I sit, I think your WW may be feeling sorry for herself. However, that may be part of the journey for her. Is she feeling the results of her decisions? Is she sorry for what she has done, and now she sees the disaster and pain (for others, not only herself) her decisions have caused? It's important that she makes that connection. Otherwise, it's not much more than a pity party.

Some of it is probably temp checking, to see if she can get you to feel sorry for her, too. That's the mindset of a WW. If she can get you to feel sorry for her, then it's easier for her to get back home...and with less required of her. However, that is why it's so important to continue being cool Clint Eastwood.

Let her play out her drama. You don't let her know what you are thinking or feeling. Don't be afraid to make her work to get you back. You want to hear more than just an apology. You want to wait until she is asking you, "What will it take to make things work again?" (Or something very close to those words). Right?.......Right.

Is saying sorry, seem to come rather easy for her? As if saying, "I'm so sorry", should be sufficient? Do you see where I am going here? For some women, like me for example, it was very tough to apologize, genuinely, in regards to the suffering I had caused my H. The first time I said it was with a very resentful attitude, so needless to say....my H wasn't impressed. And, for some, they are merely words and the remorse is not felt. If you can hold her feet to the fire, I think the remorse is on its way. But hey, I get excited right along with you guys.....when these girls start seeing the light of day!

[RSG]

Welp, it ain't my lucky day....

Got to the preschool, was in a good mood. Smile on my face, just felt good inside. Was looking over paperwork inside, she walked in front of me to sit down and her phone crossed my field of vision. It was HIS name. "You're so special." My blood raced. I took the pen to sign my name to a few things, My hands shook with anger. Again. THAT name. In another area related to my S. We turned everything in, and I remained calm and focused on getting S signed up, costs, etc.

Walked outside and she started talking about money. Needless to say, my good mood was in the crapper. All I needed was one thing to set me off. "I'm not paying for the tag, it was only $20!" Boom. Things escalated from there. She threatened to get a lawyer, so I said how will you pay. I just glared at her. "SLUT" rang throughout my mind. "Why are you looking at me that way." I held my tongue. Things still escalated. "Therapy costs a ton. I've been paying for it alone for an entire year." "I didn't know it was that much then!" Then I changed tact. "Maybe you would have if you didn't run away." "I didn't do anything then." "Yes you did..."

We drove away. Still pissed off. I sent a snarky text and finished it with "you're so special." "Huh" "Texting your boyfriend while we sign S up for school?!" She calls. I'm girding up, ready for a nasty fight because I know she's capable of one. During her worst wayward moments, she was extremely mean. I answer, she laughs and says it was some kid counselor at camp who's the son of a Dean. Calls me crazy and paranoid. Then I was surprised. "What about you? Being secretive about where you are? Are you dating? Are you seeing somebody?" "No." Figure if I'm in the gutter I may as well ask, and she says she's not involved with OP anymore. She says she's trying to get her, uh, "stuff" together and is trying to schedule counseling and needs to get back with them.

Suddenly the conversation gets light. I laugh at something inadvertent, and she says she may go into work late next week and meet S and I for his first day at camp. I say he'd like that. She says she's going to the gym. We say bye.

I come home, and send her a text. I apologize saying I'm working hard on my own stuff, admit that that name triggers my anger and validate that it probably does look crazy to her. Done.

Well. Good things I learned: The anger is gone. It flowed through, and I'm not angry anymore. She isn't involved with anyone. I've confirmed therapy for me is 100% necessary. She's insecure about the idea of me seeing someone. She sees therapy is necessary for her. It's obvious we need to be separated longer.

Bad things I learned: I haven't even started to delve into it in 6 weeks, but I have MASSIVE trust issues with this woman. Even if she begged me, her coming back home now would literally break us both and put us both into massive depression. Trust and forgiveness are issues 1A and 1B I need to work on in therapy. I need to SHUT THE FUDGE UP.


Cbtdad will probably figure out who I am, find my address and come slap me around. Which is ironic, because I read your 2013 threads and there are similarities. I'm reminded of your early days when you told your lady she'd never stop being a selfish biddy. I'm working so well on other aspects of myself, but the trust part of it is just lightyears away.

Anyway, I'm ready for the firing squad. Shoot away!!

[Vanilla]

Well

My thinking is you don't trust her because she has proved herself untrustworthy.

V

[cbtdad]

Bahahahaha!!! I won't come hunt you down! There are gonna be many slips up along the way. It's a process and that's why it is so important to work on yourself.
If you read my threads from 2013 then you probably noticed it took me over 3 months to detach. My BD that time around was in December and I didn't join the forum till February. I did so much wrong before I joined. So in that aspect you are way ahead of the game!! Good job!
My sitch from 2013 taught me so much about a WW. I can't tell you how many times my W would say she isn't talking to OM anymore. And you know what her response was when we started piecing? "Well at the time you asked me I wasn't talking to him"
That's the roller coaster ride my friend. That's why it is so important to work on you and detach. Listen to me on this!!! YOU HAVE ZERO CONTROL OF YOUR W. YOU CAN ONLY CONTROL YOU!
Rsg, you can't control your emotions, but you can control how you react!!! You got angry when you saw that name. And by the way, I don't believe your W. She is still in contact with whoever it is. She is definitely communicating as much as she is with you for plan B right now. She might now even realize that is what she is doing, but that is definitely happening. You have something she doesn't. Us!! you have us who have been through these things and can point them out.
That's why you need to take the advice of everyone and cut the contact as much as possible. It's for you! Don't worry about her. I know that's tough to do but you must do it to move forward.
The things you are saying about your W's behavior right now remind me so much of how she was in 2013. She would break down all the time. She was definitely not the woman I had married and wanted to be with. There is nothing you can do to change your W right now. You have to understand that. She has got to find herself on her own. You can only do you!
I want you to really pay attention to when your W texts you.
Really understand if it's something you need to respond to. If it is, then one or two word answers.
Just like coconut said, when on the phone keep it short and sweet and be the first to get off. You have to slow down her control.
Go be happy for you!! I know it's hard. Been there done that. But it will get easier.

[Coconut]

Yep, listen to that guy cbt, I know I do... Your WW explained away, and that was a pretty crappy explanation. Detach man, detach is your best chance..

My wife and I are piecing, and guess what? There are no awkward text, no hiding the phone, she almost always texts me first and is always telling me what's going on in her life... Wanna know why, because now she's focused on being with me...

When somebody texts her, or posts something on Facebook that she thinks I may misinterpret she comes to me and shows me the whole conversation, because she knows it might make me question...

Look, until she shows yountrue remorse it doesn't matter what she says, Jo's back away... Go as dark as you possibly can. If your truly doing it for your son do it, but if your doing it to communicate with her, don't do it.., back away.

[RSG]

Yep, listen to that guy cbt, I know I do... Your WW explained away, and that was a pretty crappy explanation. Detach man, detach is your best chance..

My wife and I are piecing, and guess what? There are no awkward text, no hiding the phone, she almost always texts me first and is always telling me what's going on in her life... Wanna know why, because now she's focused on being with me...

When somebody texts her, or posts something on Facebook that she thinks I may misinterpret she comes to me and shows me the whole conversation, because she knows it might make me question...

Look, until she shows yountrue remorse it doesn't matter what she says, Jo's back away... Go as dark as you possibly can. If your truly doing it for your son do it, but if your doing it to communicate with her, don't do it.., back away.

I hear you guys. She doesn't show true remorse of course. I think Sandi's right and she feels sorry for herself, and hoping I do too. If she felt any remorse, she would see that what I did today came from pain. I'm still bleeding a little even though scar tissue is building. I do like Sandi's note of response to "I'm so sorry" though. "It's not that simple anymore " is the perfect response.

I'm going to look at each text when it comes through and put a value on it. During any phone calls I choose to take, I'm going to initiate "I need to go" and say goodbye. This was a big wakeup call for me today. I need to work on my ability to forgive, or I won't be able to trust anyone anymore. I need to work on myself a lot. Communication, LL's and all the relationship stuff is helpful. I CAN control my anger. I was holding back on forgiveness in order to wait for her request; but, I see now that her asking is one thing (and will take a long time). My GIVING is another. It's for me, my heart, my value, my life.

The therapist I called today only has hours from 8-2 a couple days a week. That just won't work. She's supposed to ring me tomorrow with info re recommendations. I'm looking forward to getting with someone and really working on things. I'm good at reading and putting concepts into play, but I need to get stuff out into the open and have a professional help me with my head.

[MoveFrwd]

I'm girding up, ready for a nasty fight

This seems counterproductive.

How can you prepare next time to DE-escalate?

I have MASSIVE trust issues with this woman. Trust and forgiveness are issues 1A and 1B I need to work on in therapy.

What has she done to earn your trust?
Why do you think you should trust her?

[RSG]

I'm girding up, ready for a nasty fight

This seems counterproductive.

How can you prepare next time to DE-escalate?

I have MASSIVE trust issues with this woman. Trust and forgiveness are issues 1A and 1B I need to work on in therapy.

What has she done to earn your trust?
Why do you think you should trust her?

Good questions! I'm trying to find an IC I can go to and discuss this stuff. The one I talked to couldn't get me a reference, and another I tried today just didn't sit right with me on the phone (seemed mean). I'm going to call another this weekend.

It's the anger that caused me to get ready for a fight. I think I've buried my feelings about the A, and that's why I ignore that little voice that says "You know this isn't right" and just continue to blow up. I won't be able to see an IC immediately, so I should take some deep breaths or something before I act. "Will this get me closer to or take me further from my goals."

As for trust, yeah I'm not ready for that it was just a goal to talk about and work through in therapy. She definitely has to earn my trust back, and that's not going to happen anytime soon because she doesn't care.

For today, no contact. As expected after yesterday lol. I know there will be tomorrow though, as it's my birthday and I'll be picking up S from my folks. She's given crappy presents in the past, so I really expect nothing other than a happy bday text if that.

[sandi2]

Walked outside and she started talking about money. Needless to say, my good mood was in the crapper. All I needed was one thing to set me off. "I'm not paying for the tag, it was only $20!" Boom. Things escalated from there. She threatened to get a lawyer, so I said how will you pay. I just glared at her. "SLUT" rang throughout my mind. "Why are you looking at me that way." I held my tongue. Things still escalated. "Therapy costs a ton. I've been paying for it alone for an entire year." "I didn't know it was that much then!" Then Ichanged tact. "Maybe you would have if you didn't run away." "I didn't
do anything then." "Yes you did..."

We drove away. Still pissed off. I sent a snarky text and finished it with "you're so special." "Huh" "Texting your boyfriend while we sign S up for school?!"

You may have lost your cool Clint sunglasses on that round.

I answer, she laughs and says it was some kid counselor at camp who's the son of a Dean. Calls me crazy and paranoid. Then I was surprised. "What about you? Being secretive about where you are? Are you dating? Are you seeing somebody?" "No." Figure if I'm in the gutter I may as well ask, and she says she's not involved with OP
anymore. She says she's trying to get her, uh, "stuff" together and is trying to schedule counseling and needs to get back with them.

Are you positive you saw OM's name when she was texting?  If you did, then I think she's lying, in part, anyway.  She was laughing b/c you showed your jealousy.  You were responding like a jealous high school boyfriend.

I come home, and send her a text. I apologize saying I'm working hard on my own stuff, admit that that name triggers my anger and validate that it probably does look crazy to her. Done.

I want to make a suggestion, and I hope you will consider making it new behavior change. I think you should break yourself from texting her and bring up the subject that you just had with her.  You could have apologized when the two of you were on the phone earlier.  To return to the subject again.......plus you persuing by initiating a text regarding something personal between the two of you.......sets you back a little bit.  It shows her things you should not reveal at this time.  Mainly, it tells her you are still hooked, and it appears that you are seeking a response from her.  So, please break yourself from this action.

Well. Good things I learned: The anger is gone. It flowed through, and I'm not angry anymore. She isn't involved with anyone. I've confirmed therapy for me is 100% necessary. She's insecure about the idea of me seeing someone. She sees therapy is necessary for her. It's obvious we need to be separated longer.

The anger gone is temporary, and probably b/c she said she's not involved with anyone.  (Did she really say, "anyone", or did she specify OM?).  She is insecure about the idea of you dating.  All of it put you in a better mood.  But, you still have an anger problem
that is just wait waiting to be triggered.  Is your therapist covering this problem and giving you the tools to help you?

Bad things I learned: I haven't even started to delve into it in 6 weeks, but I have MASSIVE trust issues with this woman. Even if she begged me, her coming back home now would literally break us both and put us both into massive depression. Trust and forgiveness are issues 1A and 1B I need to work on in therapy. I need to SHUT THE
FUDGE UP.

I agree.  And, your certainly need to STFU.   I'm going to say something about your trust and forgiveness issues.  Once your trust has been violated by the other person, then it is up to them to earn back a little trust at a time.  You aren't able to believe or "trust"
her word now.  Her actions must consistantly line up with her words. In time, she can earn a little more......and a little more......until you feel that you can trust again.  But why are you pressuring yourself about not being able to trust her now?  This is up to her......not you.  This is a big part of the WW's work, and it should be required when returning to, and healing the MR.

The forgiveness is not the same as trust, IMHO.   I believe the big difference in the two is this:  Forgiveness cannot be earned. It is an act of grace, and grace is never earned.  It is entirely left up to the injured person to choose to forgive, or not to forgive.  The injured person can even choose to forgive the other person..........but never trust them again.  People have divorced and the injured spouse could eventually forgive, but would not be placed in the position of trusting that other spouse again.........b/c the other spouse did not change his/her behavior/actions.  The injured party forgave, for their own sake.
It was for themselves, not so much for the other person.

If the couple decides to work together to heal the MR, forgiveness is an absolute necessity for the betrayed spouse.  It takes time for deep injuries to heal, and I've been told that betrayal is a unique pain that nobody understands without experiencing it.  The betrayed spouse who is so quick to tell the cheating spouse that they forgive them..........many times right after discovering the affair even though the cheater could care less)........may be a spouse who has not had time to really process the shock,  pain, anger, etc.  I have seen some cases where the betrayed spouse would tell the cheating spouse they forgave, when really, it was an attempt to smooth things over to prevent divorce.

Well, this post has become way too long and there is so much more I want to add, but I will stop here. Tomorrow is another day.