I relate to what you are saying. I don't read much about the stories where people are still trying to DB because I can't bring myself back there. There is no way in hell I ever want to be a lighthouse for him or anyone (except my kids) ever again and my advice to someone these days would be quite the opposite from what I wanted to believe was possible 2 years ago. I know that it works for some people, but you have to have a partner that knows how to commit in the first place. Not someone who thrives on playing head games and compartmentalizing each piece of his or her life. I hate the message that we have to deny our emotions and suck it up.
I feel there is a big message around (not so much on the boards but everywhere) that if we have an emotional attachment to our ex then we are clingy and pathetic. Like a 15 year marriage is supposed to leave no residual side effects. It has been a year since I had to leave and I should be over it--even before the D is final. I should be accepting of OW and not have an opinion about the tacky things she does that makes my life uncomfortable. But I do have an opinion--and that doesn't mean I am controlling. And I spent 15 years sacrificing my needs and wants to make his life comfortable, I don't have to do that anymore. And choosing not to be complacent in all this does not make me "vindictive" or "hung up on him" as he wants everyone to believe.
There is still pain. And that pain does not mean that I want that crazy man back in my life. It doesn't mean that I am clingy or in denial or trying to control what he does. It means that I am human and believed we had something meaningful. I believed we had something that was worth sacrifice on my part. And I am angry about being deceived and grieving the loss of what I thought I had.
I believed he was all in. I believed he meant the vows that we took. It is easy to make the vows when you are in the heights of romance, but those vows aren't meant for the good times, they are meant for when things aren't going well. I know there are men out there who believe in those vows. Most of them are married. But some of them were just as blindsided as we were. I'm not quite sure how to tell the difference just yet, but I think at our age it must be easier because they have enough history behind them to help with the information gathering. When we were in our 20s all we could go on was promises--and without quite understanding what challenges were ahead it was easy to put all of our faith in those promises.
I don't know if I want that kind of commitment ever again. But I do believe it is out there.
I know my H did not live up to the ideals he had for what kind of H he wanted to be, and I didn't live up to my ideals on the kind of wife I wanted to be either. But I didn't expect us to be perfect. I just expected us to never give up. To always try. To continue to work together. And that is where I was let down. He wanted perfection. I wanted partnership. Neither of us could deliver. If I do decide to get married again, it would be with someone who shows up no matter what. Not someone who wants to be the hero, or the easy going good guy. someone who can disagree with me without walking out or throwing bombs of insults. Someone who can be happy to share an experience with me even if it isn't something he enjoys without pouting or expecting a parade of honor for his sacrifice. Someone who can make mistakes and own up to it when it happens. And someone who doesn't dismiss me when I do the same. And can honestly talk to me about things I might do that upsets him.
If that person doesn't exist that I am fine being single for the rest of my life.
^^^^^^
Yes, that. All of it, every single word!
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
Such a similar dynamic for me as well. Is this a universal gender battle or just similar because we were all a part of such dysfunctional relationships that ended in divorce?
My husband made this remark about how much he had to compromise. I think a very real issue was that he did not understand that once there are children involved sacrifice and compromise becomes a requirement.
A big issue for us was his sleeping late. I mean sleeping till 3 or 4 on weekends and then getting to work after 12 during weekdays and having to make it up in the evenings. (No he did not work night shifts) during the week I worked part time and when I was not working I was taking care of son. During the weekends I wanted husband to spend time with us. I wonder if the waking up late was a passive aggressive way to avoid that. I would wait around and then he would get up and tell me he had to run errands before the stores would close. If he did wake up and do something he was so moody and resentful. It wasn't even fun. Plus he could only wake up with me constantly nagging him to get up which left us both in bad mood. He felt that going places with us was a huge compromise. A lot of the time I would just call my parents so that I had someone to go hiking with, or go to beach with, or apple picking with,or to museums with etc.
Now he does these sort of day trips with his mom every other weekend. As if to say, "see when your not involved i will get up". (Although I know through son my MIL is the one that is up with him in the mornings and putting him to bed at night... so I am basically sharing custody with my MIL! (I know how much worse that could be for those of you who have OW taking care of kids)
I know I shouldn't be ranting about this anymore. I know how common it is for guys to take the back seat on family activities..I know my husbands mother was the one that did everything in his household and my father was the one that always wanted to go places with us (to the point that my mom would make jokes about giving us money to go places with and tire out dad) so expectations were screwy and very different baackgounds to begin with.
I do fear this dynamic though and maybe it would be better to just do it alone.
Thanks for listening. I know it doesn't matter anymore. It's something I still think about though. I don't know how it could have been handled differently. And I am afraid of next spouse not wanting to spend time with me either.
I think maybe we were just doomed from the beginning. Im from big family. I like working as team. I like going places. My parents were both involved. Husband was only child. Very independent. His mom was super organized and took care of everything.
I am in the final phases of a divorce and was the recipient of the divorce :-) ...after about 11 years and a young daughter.
Surprised? yes/no. We had issues
But for the theme of this post, I totally agree being good at disagreement but also the poorly over used term of communication and the style of communication. My STBX was a bully and has the "not my fault" syndrome. Not just with me but all her interactions. The world is at fault for all her problems.
So we were not good at disagreement. Because it would be me just burying my feelings, resenting her more.....detaching more...and dissapearing more becuz it was useless. Her on the other hand maybe just needed someone stronger so they could stand up to her bullying when there was a disagreement and maybe that would work for her. Not me....
Communication in terms of being able to be open and honest of what you need and what is missing and just "what" with the other person able to accept it and not be defensive is another thing you have to be good at together...which is hard.
I too cringe about all the new stories I read.they are sad...have similar themes...
I still think that marriage is a super tough road to go down and that its too easy to get married and divorced :-) Too many "channels" of media , both TV , social and the like have killed the instituation of marriage IMHO. Its not a fantasyland where passion is there every day, every year etc....you need to work at it and you may fall in and out of love at adifferent times. But you loved enough hopefully to make the vow and I am big at commitment. Also understand if you are miserable then it is no way to live life. But you need to discuss communicate, be open and vulnerable, and give it your all without giving up. And if all fails, amicably and lovingly walk away but cheating to me is inexcusable and for the weak minded. Its an excuse...
Thanks for your post rich. Yes marriage is way too easy for the walkaway spouse (although some states are better then others) and I agree that a successful marriage requires committment through the unhappy and passionless times. im not sure that I believe in amicably walking away because I doubt that it is ever amicable for both partners. And why get married in the first place if that's an option? I think there is always a way to work things out if there is no easily available exit plan. (with exceptions for cheating, abandoning, and harming children).
I am not familiar with your situation but I will try to catch up. Like you, my husband buried his feelings, built up resentment, detached and withdrew. I was not an irrational bully. At least I don't feel like I was. If husband ever attempted to communicate with me I would have really analyzed every word he said to come up with a fair solution. For some reason he just could not do so and to this day I do not understand it.
He frequently said our issues were "we don't communicate"
I have a hard time communicating with him now because I feel like he will distort my words and show his anger for them weeks from now. I just stopped talking to him all together. I have no desire anymore.
I don't know how it could have been handled differently. And I am afraid of next spouse not wanting to spend time with me either.
Oh, this made me tear up... ((((JujuB)))) If they only knew how much they've hurt us. I went through the very same thing.
There are many, many people who remarry happily. I truly believe that those of us here, who introspect, grow and develop, review our history and think about what we can do differently, maybe see an IC, stand a much, much better chance to find happiness than the average person.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
Everyone shared some sentiments I can certainly understand. And I know we discussed some of this stuff.
You could not have handled this differently. You handled this like a strong loving woman and a mom. It's not that he didn't want to spend time with you. He seems pretty ill-equipped to handle real life. Which is not a reflection on you at all.
My childhood was a bit messed up. long story. My mom was home but I was raised by my dad. The best gift I could have gotten out of my not so ideal childhood was the independence I was taught by my father, and the independence that forced upon me by my mother. While I am sure your MIL had good intentions, her doing everything for him didn't prepare him for the real world. he is escaping himself and his responsibilities, not you!
It also takes 2 to communicate. And I could completely relate to being scared to communicate. Anything I ever did would also be distorted. or I was told "too bad, it is how it is" So I stopped. Nothing got solved, I got resentful, ect.
In the future, when you are ready to date, you will be very keen to red flags and sincerity. And your gut. Your intuition will not fool you. My gut has been right 100% of the time, in the M and in other R's. The key is listening to it. Yes, we take a risk that some divorced guy is feeding us a line of BS, o perceives their last M as they did, even if it wasn't what it actually was. I believe this experience we have all gone through can help us spot those people right away. My last R, my intuition made me aware of the red flags. While he was a great sweet guy and we LOVED spending time together, he had behaviors from his last R that didn't change which needed to for a new R. I saw it.
Loving again is a risky thing to do and it has no guarantees. I promised myself when I was ready for a relationship that I would give myself fully, even with the risk, because when it was the right one, everything would be returned fully. There was no point in dating in a completely guarded manner (guarded and naïve are two different things) if I wanted to reap full benefit of a healthy relationship. Sure, I've been hurt again. But I don't regret anything I've done.
And I read a great article on the torn feeling between being happy you are out of a marriage knowing that was unhealthy and there was cheating, but still missing being married and a family unit. Both can be done at the same time, even if it feels completely conflicting.
Ginger1 has some really good points. I don't ever want to be a distrusting person. I like that can be trusting. But what I am learning to do is to trust myself more. I ignored all of my red flags as well because I wanted to believe the illusion. The red flags were buried under the things I wanted to see and hear.
I now pay attention to those red flags, but like I have said in my thread I am recognizing the things that make me drawn to the people that raise them. I am working through that. I want to believe that people generally have good intentions. I have learned that not everyone does, but even if they do have good intentions but hurt me in the process that means they aren't right for me. Not that they are a bad person, but not the person for me and I don't have to keep them in my life. I am still struggling to recognize it and apply it, but I think if I have this mastered my next R (if there is one) will be a better fit than any that have come before.
40s 2teens M14Y BD-10/12/13 rec-1/14 BD2-5/14 rec2-9/14 EA disc-10/14 4/15-BD 3 and triangulation ensues Served with D6/15 MS forced to leave7/15 D agreement signed 8/16 final 5/17
The real gem in our situation is that we are working on us, to make us a better, to be who we truly are. I have met so many people who aren't taking ownership of their participation in the break up of their marriage, and I'm sure that they'll reproduce the same in their next relationship or they will go for the same person.
Even though BD is hard because we have to accept our responsibility and learn from it, as it is a journey that we would have never started if it had not been forced on us. JJB I'm 16 months post BD and only now I'm realising my share in the end of my marriage. I saw who I had become and now I'm making the changes for myself. I was expecting H to make me happy and deal with my issues, whereas now I understand all along I buried my head in the sand, and was expecting it to go away. God has given me a change to work on me and to become who I'm supposed to be. It is probably to the expense of my marriage but I believe I had to be smacked really hard to realise it.
Some people ( us here) will be better equipped in our next relationship whereas our H will not have grown like we did because they see nothing wrong with them.
JJB we will come out of this tunnel a better person and the right person will come along. My H has been brought by his mum and 3 sisters and had everything done for him, whereas like you I was brought up to be independent. It's a different bringing up and I didn't truly understand what compromises were/ are. I know for sure that I won't repeat it in my next relationship.
Thank you Ginger, mustard seed, and Rouky. I reread each of your posts a few times.
It's been a long time since I posted. I've been in a bit of a slump. I used to read these forums religiously and recently I just feel so exhausted by it all. Like I don't have the energy to write (and then the times I tried it just froze up and I gave up )
The actual legal process is coming up and I have been procrastinating on making certain decisions. I realize this comes from a state of anxiety and fear and I feel paralyzed. I am having a hard time accomplishing things right now and I often feel like I'm just going through the motions. Work is structured and a distraction so I am fine. But bill paying, con ed courses, scheduling appointments, errands, is always a midnight hour task and Im struggling.
I go from states of intense anger to sadness and then to guilt that perhaps I have been villifying husband. I always fear not knowing my reality. I can't even look at my husband when we exchange son, I am just so hurt and betrayed and angry and having trouble coping with the abandonment and the way that he actually ended it.
I went on a super casual date ( ended in no more then hug and I split the cost) which was nice but I came home feeling very depressed and now feel guilty because another person is a bit too invested and I was not straight forward about my intentions. It's funny because I feared the similarities he shared with husband but did Not like the things that were different from husband. This one date served as a slap of reality though regarding how difficult it is to meet someone you clique with and then how once you do there's a good chance the relationship change anyway as you become less enamoured.
I am trying to remember that it is really my outlook on this whole situation and that I have the choice of wallowing in pain or being happy. Of course I choose to be happy but it's hard to be consistent like that on a day to day basis. The people that are capable of that are inspirational.
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