Here is my story and it sounds very similar to most on here. M- 15yrs D8 D13 H45 W 43 On Mother's Day weekend I had the BD on me , softly at first. It starts with the "are you happy" talk.. when I said it's ok but could be better, she unloaded on me spouting off that she hast been for a long time... Blah blah blah... The words sounded like a mlc playbook.. The lybnilwy phrase... Done with m and didn't know if she could ever get back that "feeling"... So what do I do but turn into a blubbering idiot about how sorry I am and listing off some of the things she hurt me with- limited contact and physical touch. This pursuit has been going on for a month now with me trying to figure out where I stand and what was going on. She had agreed to goto counseling , her choice, and sugested Christian based counseling .. Ok by me. We agreed on pastor at our church. It was a disaster.He told her no way out unless I hit her or cheated. Neither were going to happen so she felt trapped and did not participate ... Ended in 2 sessions. I also was using him to help guide me through this time ... She found out and was livid! Neededless to say he sugested we seek profession help. I have been in a kind of limbo heck ever since. I did get letter- typed- telling me how she felt. More of the same ...done with marriage , how she is the bad guy, my faults , wants us to part and see if she misses me, kids will be ok. I am still searching for a reason or logic in her choice. Can't seem to find any. This same wording carries over to any talk of M and a R ... Which she says she doesn't think her "feelings" will change. Much of the problem stems from money and lack of it. I provide all of our basic needs, I pay for our house, power, ect ect ect... She uses her $ for kids activities her expenses... Gas , clothes, kids clothes, her credit cards ect. We carry a high debt load cause we did live beyond our means... Not splurgy but a slow taper that built up. Along with that and increase burden from W taking job that paid less to make her happy... I work a lot of hrs. So after a while I just stick my head down and power through it , thinking she is doing the same at home. Well I guess she did for a while and now can't. We did shut down emotionally towards the M. I offered little support and she retaliated with tapering off sex which was mediocre at best. Often complained of self image and not feeling sexy - which I never ever went anywhere near - loved her any shape or form she was in. I have been working hard to make changes , ones she let out in our mc sessions. Fast forward to now... After finding this site I have started to use some of the techniques.
I think I am dealing with a loss of respect, what woman wants to do it with a man they don't respect. The sex cut off/down lack of enthusiasm hurt. Like she didn't love me ... And this I see now had been there for a while. Either this loss came from my bending at home to to take burdens off her- help w/ kids chores ect or loss from our emotional detachment. Either way I used family events not real significant to get back... I just didn't go. I never put pressure on her to have sex but she did say she felt guilty for not doing more. I let her initiate to save the rejection on me... If your a go then I'm ready at anytime. Somewhere along the line I lost my balls .. Don't know where they went but need them back ... Think that their absence may be the roof of the problem. Or perhaps a combo...not that closed minded So now on to "now"... She has requested "space"... To see if we miss each other and to decide where we go from here. She has agreed to go to mc. We both went alone to start and have our first joint session next tue. Our space agreement has been tedious at best. We sleep in separate rooms and have since D8 was born. Co sleeper... I try to make myself scarce and be there for D8D13. We told them about our problems last Sunday and went ok.. A few q's but nothing bad... No crying She has proposed that we leave kids as is and that W and I rotate house ... W goes to moms and I do the same. Other than a few things... Me being paranoid about affairs , putting gps on car and checking phone bill... Confronting about lies on whereabouts and company kept...you guys know it all.
I want to save this marriage and have told her so ... She keeps asking why haven't you left yet or got mad yet. Told her I am here and always will be here... Now looking back not such a great statement to make. So that's where I am today, a wife that doesn't love me and wants to leave but no mention of a permanent divorce. I did already see an lawyer and know where I stand ... Child support , spousal support , assets ect... pretty much how it all will play out. She has no clue of an exit plan I do know.
Here for guidance .....
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I caved a little this am ... I maintain cars and she txt me this am saying her car was still making that noise . Did she need to get someone to look at it or would I? I sent back that I would. 😞
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
Doing better after the car call... Not once have I asked about her goings on this weekend ... As she has free evening tonight. Didn't ask about anything , when I left I said have s good day and told d8 I lover and see her tonight.
Likewise she did not ask about my Saturday free night , yet. I offered no info and I'm not going to.
It gets hard at times going through the day knowing it will never be the same, but then again it should never be like that again - start over .
How do I determine what catagory to place my wife in? Waw ww or just so resentful and pissed off she wants out... 3 dif senarios 3 dif ways to approach?
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
Don't be too hard on yourself regarding agreeing to look at the car.
Good job by not asking about her evening plans and not offering info on your plans.
Rather than focusing in what category she is in, focus on yourself. Put all of your time, effort and energy into being the best Tofbrks and dad on the planet.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004
A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.
Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
Welcome aboard. Your story is very common, and it's good you found the DB board. Based on your W's attitude of disrespect, anger, etc., I suspect she has become wayward toward you and the MR. I believe the WW has a ton of resentment in her heart, and the feeling of disrespect begins to overflow into her actions. She blames her H for her lack of feelings for him. When she decides to leave the M, it is an act of rebellion. She is looking for greener pastures.
With the WAW, I believe there is more of a legitimate reason for her leaving. Maybe her H was abusive, refused to provide for his family, was into illegal practices, was an alcoholic or drug user, imprisoned, complete neglect, numberous adulerous affairs, etc. Her leaving is seen more as a means of survival......or else has lost all hope. Whereas, with a wayward wife, her leaving is an act of rebellion, and everything is based on her feelings. She may say she has given up on the H or M, but really, she's just done.
Usually, a WAW would not have a problem in being willing to work at saving the M, if the H will do what he is suppose to do and/or correct the things that drove her away. Whereas, the wayward wife is not willing to even try. The WAW may not want to end the M, but just doesn't know what else to do. The WW is intent on the H knowing it's over (regardless of her leaving or not) and her own selfishness is her motivation behind her actions.
I would think that it shouldn't be a complete shock to a sorry-a$$ed man to see his WAW slipping through his fingers. I have seen that whenever a WW drops the bomb on her H, he is usually shocked beyond words. No matter what he says or promises to do, the WW is not willing. Another significant distinction is that a WW almost always has an agenda to live the single's "lifestyle". Either by acting like Girls Gone Wild, jumping from one man to the other, or she already has eyes on a particular man. All of these type of behaviors are not the normal characteristic of the girl you married. It is as though she has totally turned into someone you no longer know. She may have been devoted to her spiritual beliefs. She might would have been eligible for the mother of the year award. None of that matters now. The WW will put their selfish wants before their own children. Keep your eyes open and see if these things start to surface.
Those are my opinion about the two. MWD does not separate them and lumps them together under WAW'S. After many years of studying this subject, and observing the board and others in life........I most definitely believe there are two types. I also believe the more wayward the W, the tougher the love the H needs to apply.
I have written several threads on the subject, if you are interested. It is listed on Cadet's post.
I encourage you to post every chance you get, read other posts, and especially read the links in Cadet's post.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks for the clarity it is needed badly. She says resentment ha built up to a point to which she cannot see herself recovering.. BUT there is always wording (reading too much into it know but ...) to leave a door open - a crack but open nonetheless. Earlier I pushed for a choice... Work on m or file for divorce. She backed down saying divorce sounded permanent.... Wtf? We still live in same house but time together is stressful... Trying to avoid someone in a 3br house is almost impossible. I have seen a decay in her decisions , almost like she is giving herself permission to behave badly... Hey you earned it suffering all that time ...😂 So are the dr and db techniques going to work? I know I am going to try.. Slowly taking my balls back... If for no other reason but to have to give to the next woman😄
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
Slowly taking my balls back... If for no other reason but to have to give to the next woman😄
Sorry, but this made me chuckle... Personally I think you should get them back and keep them this time.
as for the rest of your questions, DB does work, because it's all about you. It's making yourself whole (balls and all), building confidence and love for yourself, making yourself someone only a fool would leave.
It doesn't sound to me your WW is to far gone, mine wouldn't give me the time of day but when I mentioned D she backed down, now two months later we are piecing, and that's after finding out about an A.
Did you read Cadets homework links? Start detaching, GAL and doing 180s, they are all for you, and if your true to yourself in doing them your WW may take notice, but even if she doesn't, you'll be well prepared to handle things as they come.
M - 9 1/2 years 5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA 10/31/16 - We sold house 01/10/18 - D Finalized
So are the dr and db techniques going to work? I know I am going to try
I am hesitant to say, b/c so many people seem to have this concept that DBing is some type of bubble gum technique for spineless men who are afraid to stand up to their disrespectful behaving W. MWD does sound a lilttle soft in places, and personally, I think the subject of the waywardness in women is extremely important and it is not covered in the book. I just don't believe the WW and the WAW are alike. And since we see a growing number of H's with a wayward wife..........I think it should be addressed.
The biggest thing I have disagreed about is her advice to start by becoming their friend. I have never seen this work with the H being the spouse left behind, and the woman the wayward. I might see it working if the tables are turned and it is a man who is the wayward........b/c of differences in sexual dynamics. However, when the woman is wayward, she does not respect the H as a man or her husband. The very makeup of the female requires her to respect the man before she can feel desire for him. That's one of the basic differences between men & women. She has to respect him first, then the loving feelings return.
When a H tries to DB and by-passes the respect issue, he will not be successful, IMHO. She may stay in the M. She may even have sex with him. She may even be able to fool him for a while. However, she will never be truly happy and won't feel in love with him.........b/c she still holds resentment and disrespect in her heart. To me, that is not a successful M.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Great just who I wanted to chime in .. Sandi2!!!! I would like to give this a shot ... And I know each sitch is different but any eye opening advice I how to get the respect back? ... I exaggerate when I say my balls are hers...but do agree their is a level of I wouldn't say loss of respect but maybe the level of respect... If that makes sense. Throw in a 40th BD a death of close friend load of two demanding kids and the recipe changes a little. She often talks of feelings of being overwhelmed...am I alighting rod for all that is wrong?
Is there any path to R?
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
So tonight I had d8 and friend for a date night. Wife arranged where everyone would be ... Said d8 asked to go out with her daddy! Can't turn that down.well d13 was going to movies and needed to be picked up, along with 4 of her friends. Wife sends txt after txt asking if I was mad cause I had to round everybody up. I didn't respond.. Well I did ...just with a " driving" and never sent anything else the whole nite. She was out a friends bday party at restaurant that closes at 10 and she didn't get home till 11:45... Trying not to care , didn't show it or say anything...yay! I know it was done to get a reaction out of me ... Most times I'm like I don't give a sheet what she's doing... If it's something outside of her moral boundaries then she have to answer to God on that . I don't see the conection between loss of these morals and me too clearly... Unless she was already of such weak character that it didn't meet much resistance ... All show and lite on conviction?
It brings back a thought of a mutual friend that had her affair many moons ago to a church member with a very vindictive wife. She had flyers made of " intimate moments" and put one on every winshieldT church on Sunday!!!
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
Tof, your sitch is pretty darn close to mine, W had turned 40 a few months before, had a close work friend of hers die at a very young age (35), and then the $hit hit the fan. We are piecing, but it's tough to be around a W who has lost that attraction...
You may want to review the first part of my sitch, lots of good advice from Sandi and Wonka.
M - 9 1/2 years 5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA 10/31/16 - We sold house 01/10/18 - D Finalized
Thanks 'nut... Trying not to blow this thing sky f'n high when it's still manageable...that's were this how'd helps to bounce ideas and thoughts around without depiction or judgement
Thanks dude!
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
I read thread 1 and most of 2 ... Great stuff sandi just the perspective I need. I still struggle with just simply letting go, because that last she has done... Probably a long time ago. Maybe it's me but don't think she's gone off the reservation yet but it is giving her what she wants right now. Perhaps a long EA that suddenly came available to be PA... Hence the haste..? I need to concern myself less with what catagory she may be in and focus on overcoming the fear that it may not work out... I will say with everyday that passes it becomes easier....which is scary in its own right. Several people have said that it will turn and the choice will then be mine as to R or move on. Still find it hard to focus on me after 13 yrs of giving about all I had $ wise and emotionally ( early in the 13) to being selfish and working on myself. Perhaps this where I gain respect back ?
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
I read thread 1 and most of 2 ... Great stuff sandi just the perspective I need. I still struggle with just simply letting go, because that last she has done... Probably a long time ago. Maybe it's me but don't think she's gone off the reservation yet but it is giving her what she wants right now. Perhaps a long EA that suddenly came available to be PA... Hence the haste..? I need to concern myself less with what catagory she may be in and focus on overcoming the fear that it may not work out... I will say with everyday that passes it becomes easier....which is scary in its own right. Several people have said that it will turn and the choice will then be mine as to R or move on. Still find it hard to focus on me after 13 yrs of giving about all I had $ wise and emotionally ( early in the 13) to being selfish and working on myself. Perhaps this where I gain respect back ?
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Had no plans for tonight.. Just giving my self some rest. Still not sleeping the best. Wife asked what I was doing tonight... Told her I was going to meet some friends and then off from there... Different cities 30min apart She didn't ask much more , I told my D8 goodnight txt . I plan on going to church tomorrow ... This has been awkward ever since BD. Plan on going , the pastor there has been with me through this whole ordeal. Her family always cooks Sunday lunch now this is really awkward...should I go?
She baited me earlier today... One complaint she had was I just let herd dad mow our yard... Large lot .. Did the front on Thursday.. Still need to weed eat and mow the back. She txt and said she's getting my FIL to do it. Told her I was doing it !txt her dad not to worry ... This was something I had to do. Did it done end of story .
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
This lag [censored]... My post was like yesterday evening as is just now on?... Does me a lot of good to post about a problem I'm having and wait ... Patience is hard to come by , but something I need to work harder on.
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
I know to focus on myself and I am starting on that path. Sandi how do you come to that conclusion , not doubting it just looking for The reason behind it- Emotional withdrawal.. I'm early in the process of db and don't yet know what really works and don't know if I ever will. My wife is good at covering up her true feelings by laughing and putting up a good front. I know it's truly eating at her but fails to deal with the bad in her.
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
Really struggling with some depression today over all this stuff. Seems like the whole thing is going to sheet and she could give a rats azz less ... Which I know is part of this whole thing... Just venting not letting her see it... I hope
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
I need a little help with db'n ... I have read dr and gained a lot of knowledge. However my sitch doesn't really fit any one scenario. I wasted a lot of time on categorizing what my wife was ( ww or waw) because she really fit neither that well. She loves kids and will not leave them as she's told me. As for an affair or wild behavior... It's just not there..some leg stretching but this is a weird time in our marriage... So I guess anything is possible.
Would like some help on the space issue which is causing all kind of problems. Y youngest d noticed a change early on that I was coming home earlier and more "fun". But then wife says I dote on her and that I'm home way too much. Spending time with kids was one of her issues..? They have activities coming up that will keep them all away for most of the summer which will be hard. I have already been "removed" from the inlaw family vacation that I've been apart of for 13yrs. That hurt... She continues to exclude and corner me off , often times avoiding me altogether. It is killing me to not know where our marriage is heading.. Our next mc session is Monday.
If sandi or wonka could chime in i really could use a little different perspective. Thanks to all those who have offered help so far
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
It is killing me to not know where our marriage is heading.. Our next mc session is Monday.
I feel you on that one. That uncertainty is something that's so easy to churn and spin on. My W also had the same pattern, of avoiding me. Not like she literally walked out of the room, but it *almost* seemed that way. Only logistics about the kids. This was until our first MC session, which she got a lot of stuff off her chest (mainly "I just don't think our personalities are compatible and we never should have gotten married blah blah"). Her explanation was she was afraid I would blow up or scream or something (I am NOT like that. All in her head) when she explained what she was thinking.
Anyway, my point is, just as your head is spinning, your W has A LOT going on in her head too.
To me, it also sounds like some of this stuff is trying to get a rise out of you. Excluding from vacation, "You're coming home too early" wtf?!?! Just stay the course.
Other piece of advice I have around detaching. Consider this: * If your MR ends up healing and your W changes her feelings toward you, then the best way you can help that is to work on you and be the best person you could possible be. * If D is the path, and you are going to be left alone, then the best way you can help prepare for that is to work on you and be the best person you could possible be.
I know that second one sounds pretty crummy, but you see the pattern, right?
Me: 34, W: 39 T: 10y, M: 8y D 4, D 6 2nd M for both BD: 4/22 status: separate beds, GAL, hopeful
Did just receive txt from w saying , if I wanted to come down for a day or two while they are away... It would be ok.. But she would stay elsewhere... Well 50% there..then went on to separate Father's Day ... I know she has said she wants space and to separate but never really sunk in that it would really happen.
Have been talking with a good female friend ...she thinks I need a bold statement to turn the tide.. To illustrate I'm still in the game and doing things now out of my comfort zone... Boring and predictable. Since I cannot see how I can go from h role to some friend bff confidant handyman role.. She advises me to tell her this in a confident tone, I don't want to be you friend , your buddy or roommate, I want to be your lover and your husband! And as she says give her s kiss of a lifetime... Then walk out and leave...... This goes against db /dt to the core...but this is very out of my character so who knows.. Perhaps sandi or other women could squash this idea as more of begging pleading? Can't recreate a feeling but need something to shift it in my direction...the db&asthma don't do this I think..
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
Sandi how do you come to that conclusion , not doubting it just looking for The reason behind it- Emotional withdrawal..
Based on your posts, she fits the WW mold. I hope you will read the rest of my threads on that subject.
You are the one trying to find a reason for her wanting to end the the M. When a woman doesn't have a reason, other than she's just not happy........that raises a red flag. Sometimes the WW will give a string of complaints, but when the list is examined, you have to ask yourself if those reason justify breaking apart a family. They give reasons like, not helping around the house, not paying enough attention to her, not spending enough time with the kids, not going out enough, etc.
Truth is, it's all about her and what she wants. Selfishness!
Another trait is anger. The least little thing the H says or does that isn't lining up with what she wants........the anger comes out. Some women use their anger as a means to bully the H, especially if he tries to avoid her being mad at him. A WW can be worse than a school yard bully.
The WW is manipulative. But I have written about all of this in my threads.
Quote:
As for an affair or wild behavior... It's just not there..some leg stretching but this is a weird time in our marriage... So I guess anything is possible.
I doubt people would have said they saw any wild behavior or an A in me, either. But I was wayward, nonetheless. I held so much resentment in my heart toward my H, that I didn't like to hear anyone talk about what a nice-guy he was. I had lost respect and those closest may have been able to see, IDK. I was bitter and I was very depressed. Finally, I started an Internet affair.
I'm not sure what you want answered about the space. I'll try to help where I can, but as I said, it's in my threads if you'll read them.
Quote:
She continues to exclude and corner me off , often times avoiding me altogether.
That's what WW's do. You are going to see changes in her that will blow you away. She's not the girl you M.
MC is a waste of time and money, until she is ready to do the work to save the M. She wants out of it,....... not save it. Be prepared, b/c many W's will announce they want a D at the MC session.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks sandi I have read all your ww/waw threads... And like you said she fits most of the patterns. Announcing the D at mc is what expect , she was disappointed that it was cancelled for yesterday and postponed till Monday.
Should I just cancel , ask her (temp checking) if she really is into saving to warrant going at all ? Or just let it happen?
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
She advises me to tell her this in a confident tone, I don't want to be you friend , your buddy or roommate, I want to be your lover and your husband! And as she says give her s kiss of a lifetime... Then walk out and leave...... This goes against db /dt to the core...but this is very out of my character so who knows..
Tofbrks,
I'm betting you're a great guy and a wonderful husband, but if you have to ask the people on this forum if what your friend suggested would work...then it ain't going to work. You're not going to be confident enough to pull it off.
And I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be swashbuckling jerk; I'm little old doodler and I'm just sayin'...
First post but long time reader of the forum. I simply want to add that sandi2 is 100% correct about a WW. Take her advice, it is GOLD! My WW fits sandi2's description to a tee! I even experienced the situation with my WW announcing she wanted a D at MC session! I've been applying sandi2's recommendations and continue to hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Take her advice; at a minimum it will help you expect the unexpected. WWs are bat-**** crazy and selfish, no other way to describe them.
Me 45 W 39 D: 8,6 Married 14 years Start MC: Sept '15 BD: 3/30/16 End MC: 4/21/16 PA confirmed: 6/8/16 W moves to basement: 6/12/16
Have been talking with a good female friend ...she thinks I need a bold statement to turn the tide.. To illustrate I'm still in the game and doing things now out of my comfort zone... Boring and predictable. Since I cannot see how I can go from h role to some friend bff confidant handyman role.. She advises me to tell her this in a confident tone, I don't want to be you friend , your buddy or roommate, I want to be your lover and your husband! And as she says give her s kiss of a lifetime... Then walk out and leave...... This goes against db /dt to the core...but this is very out of my character so who knows.. Perhaps sandi or other women could squash this idea as more of begging pleading? Can't recreate a feeling but need something to shift it in my direction...the db&asthma don't do this I think..
I wouldn't do that. You're not ready. She'll just get angry and get closer to D. Remember, she doesn't make any sense and is in extreme selfish mode!
Me: 35 W: 32 S: 4 T: 6 M: 4 Physical Separation official: 5/21 Currently: DR/DBing, Focusing on me and son
Cheating on a good person is like throwing away a diamond and picking up a rock.
I too struggled to see WW features in my W but Sandi and her threads absolutely made me see more clearly. My W isn't in an EA or PA (that I'm aware of) so struggled to places her but she does have is no desire to make the M work and selfishness in abundance.
I don't want to hijack someone's thread but are there any instance where the H initiating D proceedings has brought the WW out of the fog? Or does this just not happen because of the W current state of mind?
She advises me to tell her this in a confident tone, I don't want to be you friend , your buddy or roommate, I want to be your lover and your husband! And as she says give her s kiss of a lifetime... Then walk out and leave...... This goes against db /dt to the core...but this is very out of my character so who knows..
Tofbrks,
I'm betting you're a great guy and a wonderful husband, but if you have to ask the people on this forum if what your friend suggested would work...then it ain't going to work. You're not going to be confident enough to pull it off.
And I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be swashbuckling jerk; I'm little old doodler and I'm just sayin'...
Thanks doodler... No all comments are welcome. There's always talk of this "spark " But is real to w so it must be treated accordingly ... I could pull it off , just weighing options to clear the fog and shake things up... That right there would be a true 180... Timing is my worry.. Don't think she's ready.
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
Yeah I guess it makes sense now... How could two people reconcile when one only thinks of themselves and the other thinks of everyone but themselves... Couldn't be farther apart...Sandi mentions tough love I think or tough lesson,should that have been addressed by me before now?
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
I'm 2 months in now and have only started implementing tough love so I wouldn't worry too much....It's hard for me because we are living separately so I need to choose my battles as I only have limited contact with her.
First post but long time reader of the forum. I simply want to add that sandi2 is 100% correct about a WW. Take her advice, it is GOLD! My WW fits sandi2's description to a tee! I even experienced the situation with my WW announcing she wanted a D at MC session! I've been applying sandi2's recommendations and continue to hopeless ya for the best but prepare for the worst. Take her advice; at a minimum it will help you expect the unexpected. WWs are bat-**** crazy and selfish, no other way to describe them.
I feel ya Gordon ... Maybe we should compare notes ... Plot against them evil do'er
Did yours start a slide into depravity or is that a wip... Mine is in a steady decline. Out again tonight for a wine down wed. ... Don't wait up honey I'll be late ... She doesn't know the hrs are posted on the places site and close at 9 ... She rolls in at 11... Don't ask a thing
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
I don't want to hijack your thread but I'll share some of my story later on. Simply put: lies, deception, and conniving.... I literally can't trust ANY thing she says.
After confirming the PA:
Me: Who are you texting? ( I have a boundary about texting in my presence) W: Sarah (long time friend), here look (she shows me the phone across the table). Me: I am not a fool, I know about the texting apps, you're texting some guy. W: (Deer-in-the-headlights look) Me: (Leave the house, it is my established response to her crossing the boundary).
I need to re-read your S and we can commensurate later!
Me 45 W 39 D: 8,6 Married 14 years Start MC: Sept '15 BD: 3/30/16 End MC: 4/21/16 PA confirmed: 6/8/16 W moves to basement: 6/12/16
I don't want to hijack your thread but I'll share some of my story later on. Simply put: lies, deception, and conniving.... I literally can't trust ANY thing she says.
After confirming the PA:
Me: Who are you texting? ( I have a boundary about texting in my presence) W: Sarah (long time friend), here look (she shows me the phone across the table). Me: I am not a fool, I know about the texting apps, you're texting some guy. W: (Deer-in-the-headlights look) Me: (Leave the house, it is my established response to her crossing the boundary).
I need to re-read your S and we can commensurate later!
I tracked mine with a gps ... Asked , she lied... She sheot o gold one when I told her the street her car was on all night. Says she was at a party trying to find single friend a rich Doctor... Hate to say it but she was probably looking ... I just wish she would just say F it and leave me the kids and just do her sheot away from us! Lately she's been rough on d13 .. About lying and not treating people nice... Now that's irony ...daughter even picked up on it..so I told her your mom is struggling with some things... She said "I know" - they are smarter than you think...
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
I am proud of the way I handled my wife's outing last night. Didn't ask any details. She was rather chatty this morning. She was telling me this and that, about somebody's doc dying.. And that she was talking with her all night...she was so sad ... And that she offered to go over and console her... Blah blah blah...I listened and showed concern... But really just tuned her out.
Next wed they leave for about 2 weeks plus... So that will be hard. Maybe that will give her sometime to sort things out...or ?
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
A selfish person would never make it that easy ... I guess they would have to inflict more pain to satisfy them.. [/quote]
Good call. Its all about them. Well done on not asking about her night out, I know its tough but you must detach and let her think she is running the show and realistically she is. You lost your balls, I lost my balls but at least for me, I've reached my tipping point..... I feel like our marriage is a house and she keeps starting little fires trying to burn it down, knowing that I will rush in with a fire extinguisher and put it out. Since she has moved to the basement, what she doesn't know that now is I'm throw gas on the fires she starts! She has made her bed, now she needs to lie in it!
Be strong brother, you can't worry about her actions... Free will.
In in the end - actions speak louder than words, you must live with your decisions and the consequences and finally...."We are our choices."
Me 45 W 39 D: 8,6 Married 14 years Start MC: Sept '15 BD: 3/30/16 End MC: 4/21/16 PA confirmed: 6/8/16 W moves to basement: 6/12/16
She advises me to tell her this in a confident tone, I don't want to be you friend , your buddy or roommate, I want to be your lover and your husband! And as she says give her s kiss of a lifetime... Then walk out and leave...... This goes against db /dt to the core...but this is very out of my character so who knows..
This is what the guy in a romance novel would do! However, it is not the right move with a wayward wife. The more she thinks you have no interest in her.....or that you don't want to be around her.....or that you are not attracted to her.....the better.
You see, with a WW, you do the opposite of what you'd do with a normal woman. You do the opposite of showing great care and concern over her drama, her sad friend, her woes at work, etc. When she dresses smoking hot to go out with a "friend" or whatever excuse she gives.........you don't drool over her and tell her how great she looks, b/c she's going out to play. Don't be so quick to show comfort, b/c it's all about her feelings. (The only exception is if she looses a family member). No cuddling, no hugs, no kisses, etc.
I would not recommend that the H rush out to file for a D. It is a very risky gamble hoping it will shock her out of the fog. I recommend he stops trying to win her back. He drops the rope. IMHO, that works better than anything else when you have a WW. When a H really does drop her, she can tell.....and oh brother, will she start trying to wiggle back into his life. She'll temp check him like crazy; she'll get mad; and most of all try to manipulate him. She wants control over his life.....even if she doesn't want him as her lover. Crazy!
Don't try to find out what will shock her out of the fog. I don't think they are "shocked" to the point of making a complete 180. It is a process. But if the H will stop being a nice-guy type of man and emotionally let go, that will be one of the biggest shocks he could do. She is not worried about losing him, and she needs to be. It's one thing for her to dump him.....but if she gets dumped, that's another story!
When she sees her H is not interested in holding on to her; When she sees her H happy without her; When she believes she is losing her H; When she can't manipulate her H; When she experiences the consequences of her decisions; When her fantasies crumble; Then, her H may start to see more of his old W in this wayward woman. He needs to be very careful about letting her come back too quickly. She should feel remorse for her actions and the great pain she has caused. Remorse does not come very quickly for most, and the process takes time. However, if the H can do what has been suggested, it can hurry the process along.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
More GOLD from sandi2! Sandi2 - I don't have a thread but I have read a majority of posts and I would like to say, "Thank you!" I appreciate the your dedication and commitment to helping Hs navigate this head-spinning time in our lives. Long live sandi2!
Me 45 W 39 D: 8,6 Married 14 years Start MC: Sept '15 BD: 3/30/16 End MC: 4/21/16 PA confirmed: 6/8/16 W moves to basement: 6/12/16
Dropping the rope... I'm about there... To much has been said to go back the way it was... So it that regard I CAN drop the rope on her now... The future will and must be different... Or that's a deal breaker for me. I need to focus on dropping the current wife form not the one I fell in love with...that would be real easy ... Cause the one I love is nowhere to be found.
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
Thank you sandi I do not know how to thank you enough or even how to repay you generosity of information.You provide the missing pieces of the puzzle that are crucial to moving forward with so many people.
Thank you again!
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
Dropping the rope... I'm about there... To much has been said to go back the way it was... So it that regard I CAN drop the rope on her now... The future will and must be different... Or that's a deal breaker for me. I need to focus on dropping the current wife form not the one I fell in love with...that would be real easy ... Cause the one I love is nowhere to be found.
I agree. I guess you could call me a big talker but I agree with you that dropping the rope is easier once you divorce (pun intended!) the W you married from the current W. My WW always mentions not putting the kids in the middle... I didn't put them in the middle of this.. YOU DID! You are the one that lost her mind and is on the verge of destroying this family. I will always put the health and well being of the kids first and foremost but I'm not going to let her manipulate my love for the kids to her advantage. I've dropped every single rope you can imagine and believe me, it becomes easy once you see the WW for their true colors.
Me 45 W 39 D: 8,6 Married 14 years Start MC: Sept '15 BD: 3/30/16 End MC: 4/21/16 PA confirmed: 6/8/16 W moves to basement: 6/12/16
This is my picture of dropping the rope. See if you think it makes sense.
Imagine having a rope in your hand and the other end of that rope was tied around the waist of your W. You do not want her to leave you. You are fighting for your M. So, she is pulling with all her might to get free of you. She wants out of this R! The harder she pulls forward to get away.....the harder you hold back on the rope. You have both of your heels buried into the ground and both hands in a death grip on that rope. Do you have that picture in your mind? Okay, what would happen if suddenly you dropped that rope?
She is pulling so hard with her head looking forward......that when you drop the rope....she will nearly fall over! Suddenly she is free....nothing is holding her back! She stumbles and tries to get her balance. She turns around and looks at you to see why you let go. My question to you is....what will she see?
She does not need to see a man standing there doing nothing but pitifully staring back at her or she'll just walk on. If she sees that man has stopped paying any attention to her and has his mind on something else, then she will be curious to see what got his attention more than she could. She will begin to move in a little bit so she can get a closer look. She may start to ask him questions about what he's doing and who he's seeing. She keeps getting a little closer b/c she almost acts as if she's forgotten that she is no longer held by that rope and she can leave. She is free....but she doesn't want to leave now that the man has dropped the rope.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Well last night and today have been hard. I am not really seeing any changes in my ww. Every time she goes out I wonder about what she's doing. Don't act on or question the whereabouts. She did have a pic handy last night for her outing with a friend that needed help.times don't add up and receipts show different timeline of events. No one ever said it was going to be this hard! Still need to find out if my suspicions are right ... Just a gut need.
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
Could use some input on fathers day. My wife was asking about plans in a txt no less about what we were doing. My mil sends me txt says steaks on grill for Father's Day. I respond sounds great. I still goto church with Mil and rest of family.. W/kids. So it's just natural to stay. In my wife's txt she asks what am I doing after that ? Am I taking girls/d to see my dad for fd? I said yes after yours. I guess she made the assumption she want welcome at my folks. This not the case and something that she had self imposed. Should I reaffirm that she is welcome ? Or do I not bring it up?... Seems like every chance she has she forces this distance between us , it's like I'm being punished but find nothing wrong.
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
I would just say - you're welcome to join us at my folks place - and then just leave it. If she wants to come along she can. If not, go yourselves and have a nice time....
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
I did sotto and she expressed reservations... But I also added that hers had asked as well so that feeling goes both ways. I was feeling as though some of her self inflicted quarantining was having a negative effect on my db'n so I backed up s bit and looked to include her - a little.
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
This is what the guy in a romance novel would do! However, it is not the right move with a wayward wife. The more she thinks you have no interest in her.....or that you don't want to be around her.....or that you are not attracted to her.....the better.
You see, with a WW, you do the opposite of what you'd do with a normal woman. You do the opposite of showing great care and concern over her drama, her sad friend, her woes at work, etc. When she dresses smoking hot to go out with a "friend" or whatever excuse she gives.........you don't drool over her and tell her how great she looks, b/c she's going out to play. Don't be so quick to show comfort, b/c it's all about her feelings. (The only exception is if she looses a family member). No cuddling, no hugs, no kisses, etc.
I would not recommend that the H rush out to file for a D. It is a very risky gamble hoping it will shock her out of the fog. I recommend he stops trying to win her back. He drops the rope. IMHO, that works better than anything else when you have a WW. When a H really does drop her, she can tell.....and oh brother, will she start trying to wiggle back into his life. She'll temp check him like crazy; she'll get mad; and most of all try to manipulate him. She wants control over his life.....even if she doesn't want him as her lover. Crazy!
Don't try to find out what will shock her out of the fog. I don't think they are "shocked" to the point of making a complete 180. It is a process. But if the H will stop being a nice-guy type of man and emotionally let go, that will be one of the biggest shocks he could do. She is not worried about losing him, and she needs to be. It's one thing for her to dump him.....but if she gets dumped, that's another story!
When she sees her H is not interested in holding on to her; When she sees her H happy without her; When she believes she is losing her H; When she can't manipulate her H; When she experiences the consequences of her decisions; When her fantasies crumble; Then, her H may start to see more of his old W in this wayward woman. He needs to be very careful about letting her come back too quickly. She should feel remorse for her actions and the great pain she has caused. Remorse does not come very quickly for most, and the process takes time. However, if the H can do what has been suggested, it can hurry the process along.
Wow. Thanks for this Sandi. I'm on a good starting path on many of these avenues. I know a big one I need to drop is the "family type" updates of S, and that will be done the next time she requests them. She will get angry, but it's a natural consequence of her choices. She is starting to inquire more about what I'm doing, as being out and about is such a 180 from the stay at home family man I've been for about 5 years; however, she can definitely smell that I'm still attracted. She's gained weight and has done terrible things to me and her S, but I'm still attracted. I think that's me looking at my W rather than a woman who has cheated and on the brink of destroying a family. THAT is what I need to think of when I see her. I do put on a legitimate happy face when I'm around her rather than sad and mopey so I have improved. I don't initiate contact anymore and only validate when she talks about her day.
It's definitely true, when I step back and look at it objectively. She's not worried about losing me, she's confident I'll always be there. My Mom said this numerous times, and when she did I wasn't sure what that meant. Now that I've gotten to a better place, and the shock has worn off, I see exactly what that means. The safety plan, Plan B, etc. This is why "friends" is so dangerous. She gets to have all the H things, but doesn't have to do all the W things like love, physical contact, etc. I'm learning.
And, like the others, I thank you so very much for your wisdom!!!
Me: 35 W: 32 S: 4 T: 6 M: 4 Physical Separation official: 5/21 Currently: DR/DBing, Focusing on me and son
Cheating on a good person is like throwing away a diamond and picking up a rock.
Sandi : I know patience is key to db'n . Something I'm trying to keep in perspective. Our m is in a trial separation but gives no outlook on R . I am gal and using the time to self improve... I don't know why this is an issue but time is a question I wrestle with. Don't know how much time I have to work with. I know it takes 1yr for D to complete ... But alas if I'm wondering this then I haven't full dropped the rope ...if I knew I had the time I think the anxiety would subside and I would be more effective...not cramming... But then it would be for her and the m rather than solely for me which is the point... Did I just answer my own question ?
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
FWIW, many, many newcomers feel the same way about the time. I do believe it causes the LBS to act out of panick mode, which is never a good idea.
What would you do differently if you had one month, instead of one year to DB?
Nothing ... have stopped the panic(shown) I do however have bought a of anxiety that is a little hard to deal with but that's part of my growth... As is runon sentences.
Sandi is the ww going through some difficulties as well or does the selfish nature override his? Or is it all channeled elsewhere .. Like to me? I always concern myself with me .. Not really realizing she is gong through some heavy sheot - dealing with it or not ...
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
Hey.....I am the queen of run on sentences.........and that's why I use so many.............of these................
Quote:
Sandi is the ww going through some difficulties as well or does the selfish nature override his? Or is it all channeled elsewhere .. Like to me? I always concern myself with me .. Not really realizing she is gong through some heavy sheot - dealing with it or not ..
.
I don't remember reading from a newcomer LBH who guessed anywhere close to his WW's mindset, and he usually starts out giving her too much benefit of doubt. To answer your question, yes, she does go through her own difficulties. And yes, her selfishness overrides a lot of that pain when she's at her peak of rebellion. Her self-centerness is the motivation. Some women have a ton of anger that drives them, too. But the selfishness is the common denominator I have seen in every single thing I have read, observed and studied.
I believe there the level of waywardness, and the speed to its rebellious stage, varies with women and their particular situation.
Her unmet emotional needs, unmet expectations, disappointment in her H and M (or their lives together)......may have (or not) been expressed earlier in the M and he didn't get the message. Resentment and bitterness begins to grow in her heart and she feels more and more disrespect for her H. She may stay with him for years, or just months, before she finally does something in an act of rebellion against her H. She may try to cover all the negative feelings in some wild, uncharacteristic, or morally wrong behavior..........but she is definitely acting out of her emotions. Her feelings can change almost minute to minute b/c of the turmoil and confusion in her brain. I believe a lot of WW's can have periods their H's would think they were completely unstable.......and he could be right. At times, they seem to just flip out, leaving the H in a state of bewilderment.
Even if she appears to try and prove how happy she is with her new man, lifestyle, or whatever..........it is pseudo happiness. There is no contentment. She can't really be happy with all that anger inside of her. The WW has to go through facing consequences, owning responsibility for the wrong she's done, swallowing her pride, forgiving her H for everything in the past, and feeling remorse for the pain and hell she has caused with her terrible, wayward behavior. And let me tell you.........it is not easy and it sure isn't pleasant for her.
It isn't the same pain her H experiences, but she does hurt. If she didn't have some emotional pain, then I would suspect he was just seeing her true colors for the first time.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Ok I need someone away from my sitch to decipher what is going on .. Forest for the trees. Wife has been steadily ramping up her outings, basically wants to be single. Well this being fd weekend she sets up for my daughters to spend the evening with me- no prob I loved it. Wife tells me - I'll be late can you sat at home- I've been staying at another location on and off to give her "space". Knew from past experience (lately)that something out of the ordinary would occur...well a teacher at the school my w works is single f and younger by 12 yrs... She's been on several outings with this woman in the group of m & s friends. Well tonight she rolls in at 1:30 with this woman in tow and now she's on my couch snoring away ... What in the h... Very foggy at my house fog fog fog eveywhere. What d you guys make of this?
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
And to top it off this could be a teacher of my d8 ... That's a nice moment to see your 4th grade teacher hungover asleep on your couch in your home... The same one you read to me on and I fall asleep on the one I spend time with my family on ... I would have set a boundary but had no idea something like this would occur.
Is this strange to anyone else?
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
Unfortunately, it's not strange to read about WW's hanging out with younger singles/divorced friends. As I described in my previous post, you will see uncharacteristic behavior in her. The more influence this friend has on her, the worse your W will probably behave. If you try to prevent the friendship, the more she rebells.
You can set boundaries for what goes on under your roof. If that woman is a potential teacher for your child, I think you have strong grounds to request another teacher (Should your child be assigned to her class). Take it to the school principal, and if that doesn't work, take it to the superintendent, and all the way to the school board. If they have another teacher of the same grade, then they should grant your request.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi ss always excellent advice and viewpoint. My wife and I have a combined mc session tomorrow. I know that most say that w is not ready for mc... And am aware of them using it to give D. Trying to anticipate what other senarios could play out. I was leaning towards her telling the mc they she was done and looking for her to give the ok , since there was nothing she could do - since she says she's done. On another front iher parents have started putting pressure on her for several bad decisions she's made... Calling her on them. She thinks I was involved but I assured I was not...and I think she agreed. Being of a family of strong faith BD ties to church . I don't know if this helps for lifting of her rebellion or fog of whatever... They know very little of what has gone on If I the pressure from them facilitates some sort of change .. Should I provide the inlaws with a trickle of more info hey have no idea of?
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
Well here's the thing, even if they were able to pressure her into staying with you, they can't force her to feel respect and love for you. It could, however, make her detest you more, and make life as miserable as she could for everyone around her.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi I don't think it's so much pressure to stay in the marriage as its a wake up call from those other than me that your self destructing... Alot of things they want to address don't have direct ties to m. Just poor life choices. So I was wondering if they could trigger a wake up call or something... Perhaps ? She is self destructing slowly and I fear she will lose everything in the process ... Me , her kids ,family , church, job, friends,, .. Everything...does it take this to realize the poor choices you've made have been wrong and hit bottom.?
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
She is self destructing slowly and I fear she will lose everything in the process ... Me , her kids ,family , church, job, friends,, .. Everything...does it take this to realize the poor choices you've made have been wrong and hit bottom.?
Sometimes.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
My WW is throwing it all away as well. The level of selfishness is unlike anything I've witnessed. I am guilty of underestimating her mindset that NOTHING matters except her. The kids, the finances, community status, etc.... she is flushing it all down the toilet for her own needs and desires. I can't offer any advice except be strong and weather the storm.
GG
Me 45 W 39 D: 8,6 Married 14 years Start MC: Sept '15 BD: 3/30/16 End MC: 4/21/16 PA confirmed: 6/8/16 W moves to basement: 6/12/16
Well as many have said mc is a big waste of time. I need input from the others out there...that may have had similar experiences.
We had our first mc seassion together ... She got right into it. My w basically stuck to her story of being done. She is not open to any type of saving , reconciling, or work to save our marriage ... None zero nada No reasons given other than a few .. When asked about what would make her perfect marriage .. More social outings together , do what I say I'm going to do , activities together... Ect Ect basically came down to she just had no love for me .
The mc gave us work to reflect on our role in all of this and to look inward to find out own happiness ... Sounds familiar ... She had yet to come to the realization that she needs to find her own happiness not to expect it from a feeling provided by me being there... Or not
Then the real f&"k up... My pursuit of her possibility of being in or continuing any type of affair still inhabits my mind. Well I met with a pi and gave him my info. I txt my mom who has been supportive through this ... Well she thought she was txt my sister to tell her but instead txt my wife with the pi info...BD on my part ... Unintentional...
Don't think it really made much difference cause she has been constant on where she is . What wisdom can you veterans give a wounded person in this situation..
I don't think I can carry the torch for working out anymore...just too painful and it's a long shot at best... Whatever could go wrong has gone wrong...
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
I could have typed your post... word for word..... Like many have said before, the WW will not give any legitimate responses at MC, just vague statements and half-truths. Attending MC allows them to justify to everyone that they "tried" to work things out, when we both know it was just part of their plan. Currently, WW is temp checking me with texts (non-emergency) about the kids. I just ignore them all. I'm DONE. Dropped the rope and I'm going to let her move on with her life. I'm not sure when she will come out of her fog but when she does, its not going to be pretty. She thinks she can find happiness out there but we both know its right under her nose but she is too lost to know where to look.
Me 45 W 39 D: 8,6 Married 14 years Start MC: Sept '15 BD: 3/30/16 End MC: 4/21/16 PA confirmed: 6/8/16 W moves to basement: 6/12/16
There is still hope, whether you want to continue with DB is your business. But you are still living together an attending MC, that is pretty huge. I wish I was at that point - and if I was I would be fighting for it.
Me-45, W-37, T-10 yrs, M-9 yrs D -7 yrs, S-5 yrs BD-5/3/16, D filed 6/8/16
Qt- I hate to throw in the towel I know and it's been only 2 mo since BD. They are going away for16 days so maybe that will give space that's needed now. A lot of damage has been done , I would say almost irreparable damage. But now time will tell. She has stuck to the same story for the entire time (short) and the mc caved and folded like a cheap suit.
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
Stay strong, man. I know when you're looking at the possibility of an A it's hard to even have any desire to want to work it out. I think you owe it to yourself to really think about it, and maybe the PI will help you in that decision. I know I would also be conflicted if confronted with an A.
Me-45, W-37, T-10 yrs, M-9 yrs D -7 yrs, S-5 yrs BD-5/3/16, D filed 6/8/16
Qt- not even about an affair it's about the families polarity .. Mine highly distrusts w and sees as though I provided a good life which she does not appreciate. Perhaps later down the road we could attempt something... But for now I have to protect me and rebuild...I'm wounded and need to regroup. Looking at gal and maybe a career redirection... Tsp into my creative side that's been dormant since I've become a family man..that in it self is rewarding just need more ...an outlet , a channel to delve into ,...
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
Yeah I'm amazed at how fast things are happening in my case - only six weeks, just a little shorter than your timeline. Already my family hates the W and I'm sure her family has branded me as a villain. I just can't believe the damage that's been done, all of which could have been avoided if she'd just been willing to communicate.
Yeah I'm also looking at gal and making some major changes. I don't know what the future holds for me, I definitely want to start focusing on some of my old interests that have taken a backseat since getting married.
Me-45, W-37, T-10 yrs, M-9 yrs D -7 yrs, S-5 yrs BD-5/3/16, D filed 6/8/16
Ok I need true db pro's here . I think I may be back in the db game. I bought the bs of what she was selling at mc. Genuinely thought that she was fine and honest about it .. And about no affairs going on and what not. Basically ruling out her being ww. But that was my assumption not based on any facts or advice from here. She convinced me she was simply out of love and not looking for a new one or checking grass ect. She was juat ready to do what she wanted to do .. So this evening w txt me to request a separation agreement , not a legal separation but some hokey azz thing we wrote them have it notorized. Not a true legal document and my lawyer said carried very little weight.. She advised to go forward with a legal agreement and start the 1yr time frame.
Well wife wants to keep lawyers out of if and keep it between us. This is the same person who has said she's done with marriage so many times I could make s drinking game out of it. So why no progression to legal separation which I turn is a divorce after the 1yr period. Her proposal is to rotate through house 3dayscon 3days out. So what's the angle here? Cake eating? Plan b? Ducks in row? Not ready for divorce? Affair ?
Feel stupid for believing she was even the slightest bit sincere....
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
My advice is not to agree to one single thing until you get legal advice where you stand. If she is wanting to bypass lawyers, someone has told her she'll get more her way. Protect yourself, and what's yours.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Really at a crossroads here... She's pressing for in & out of our home ... What should I do ... Tell her to hit the road or giver her what she wants? She's been nervous all day about something.. Thinks my family is plotting against her. Called 8 times and 5 txt's... That's usually 4 or 5 months worth of calling.
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
Tell her you are not going to do anything until you've had time to think it through! Just b/c she's pressing and pushing you, doesn't mean you're suppose to roll over and play dead.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks Sandi , I would never sign anything like that anyway... Especially if financials are involved which I highly doubt. I think it's more towards freedom to do as she pleases- see who she pleases - when she pleases- NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!...she keeps the wayward hid very well because the fake mom of the year face and life serve her purposes. Yesterday she told my daughter she was acting like s slut for playing with some boys in the pool... She's 13... Wth...really hard on her especially about lying ... Which I don't approve of either but she puts such pressure on her and Hawks over her friend choices, BF choices , who to talk to , what to say on Instagram /snap chat Ect. Any signs here or just more batsheot crazy ww stuff?
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
Yes yes yes Sandi.. She even told me when I was inquiring about affair / affairs that why would she want another she didn't want the one she had...ouch!
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
Yes yes yes Sandi.. She even told me when I was inquiring about affair / affairs that why would she want another she didn't want the one she had...ouch!
Another man they is...
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
I feel your pain, I was played like a grand piano during MC as well. You head is spinning, do not agree to anything without consulting a L. The only documents that have any meaning are ones issued by the court. Be strong and detach from her crazy demands. She has a plan, they all do.....
GG
Me 45 W 39 D: 8,6 Married 14 years Start MC: Sept '15 BD: 3/30/16 End MC: 4/21/16 PA confirmed: 6/8/16 W moves to basement: 6/12/16
My advice is not to agree to one single thing until you get legal advice where you stand. If she is wanting to bypass lawyers, someone has told her she'll get more her way. Protect yourself, and what's yours.
Sandi at times I do see the wayward side ...I have been unable to prove an affair of any sort just assumptions and guessing. I use this thought ...she is leaving this marriage I think/she has said because she has no love and thinks I will not return. And I am supposed to think she is not seeking something that is obviously important to her .. That she isn't looking to fill this void...it's like being at a good restaurant an having food and they don't have anything to drink...your thirsty as well as hungry. You eat but still thirsty. You eventually leave because of your thirst. The first thing after leaving would be to get something to drink...? I guess I haven't dropped the rope yet ... She's still pulling me in with not pressing for a legal separation ... If she is so done why not move forward to something permanent? And as far as our separation goes ... The rotate thing just bows to her ... This is s situation I had n choice in. If there is no salvaging this m, why the delay? Maybe this is her way of controlling me .. String me along for her uses. It's going to be s long 2 weeks as the kids and w leave for wedding and inlaw vacation. Will need support from you guys to keep me together...
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
Well it's day 2 of 16 my kids will be away . It's hard when the house is empty and it's so quiet. A few things have come up since they've been away. My W has been txt randomly about their goings on... Usually I don't respond unless it's needed. The last couple were strange. W - wedding was crazy... I send no response. W- we are leaving wedding, don't know if your getting these ... I send that I am... W- I am trying to not make you feel left out,if you want me to stop txt you I will.... Me- of course I want to hear about how hug kids are doing and what they are getting into ect... I really wanted to say just tel me about kids , I just don't want small talk between us.. Now communication was a big problem with M , so do I need to 180 and be involved or engaged as to chitchat or txt she sends? It's almost like she wanted to share funny stuff or up to the minute goings on like we where still together...we are not On s side note I met with a friend I haven't seen in 15 yrs... He was in wedding to W. He has/is going through D because of an addiction. Shared some info about families ect... Then I unloaded on him , well he asked so I started and it came out over an hr or so. I outlined things going on and behaviors..not running over her but still telling things from my position. He says your too close and you don't see them..(red flags) that she's having some sort of affair. This has been a problem I've had , to not see or want to what is really going on. I've tried but can find no proof and she denies when asked ..then lays on the bs about how she's not looking for anyone else. I just find it hard to believe that this feeling or lack of is strong enough to make you leave but you aren't seeking to satisfy it?
I may never know or may come out much further down road but I have to deal with it. For some reason I see the separation freeing her and that 3 mo down road this person will emerge. Just happen to meet W and hit it off...and it's perfect .. Meant to be ... All the things that she needed...ect ect... And by Christmas she'll be wrapped up and moving on like nothing ever happened. All the while knowing this person had been there all along.. Just waiting so her reputation could stay intact. This is just speculation on my part ... But wouldn't be surprised ... She loves the holidays and family... What better way to start out a new year with a new family without me... The one that caused all this pain and the one who love had died for...
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
I already know the answer and I shouldn't be asking. My w wants to separate like right now. She wants us to come up with an agreement between us ,not including any legal supervision. Which to me is insanely dumb, but didn't say that. She says she needs the yr wait time to pay off bills ect. She still hasnt uttered the word divorce. We still communicate but it is becoming strained. Should I continue to db even when her story of feelings never changing she's sticking too. Is this her way of letting me prove that she's right that I cannot change.. Action not words...don't want to give up but have so little positive to build on.
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
I now have received a separation agreement from the web with our info put in it... With an addition of a "date" clause... Sandi2 is this s sign of ww?...lol What should I make of this? She wanted me to sign this crap... I then told her if she wanted to date other people and needed to find somewhere to live. She then said if I kick her out that she will never forgive me and that I better sign something quick before she leaves..of she'll never forgive me... What to make of all of this?
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
Just finished up an outing with kids and I couldn't help but be a little sad that things as a complete family are over and will never be the same or right as far as I'm concerned... 13yo daughter is heavy in rebellion... Boys Skimpy clothes , pics of questionable outfits... Bathing suit photos in bathroom being sent to boys...just when my family needs a strong parent core she decides to flake out. I know I can pull my weight and some of hers but we need both working together , without these distractions.
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
She then said if I kick her out that she will never forgive me and that I better sign something quick before she leaves..or she'll never forgive me...
Tofbrks,
So, if you don't sign the agreement she'll leave, and regardless of whether you kick her out or if she leaves of her own accord, she'll never forgive you. Do I understand that correctly?
That kind of stuff makes me a tad angry. That said, remember that you shouldn't do anything that doodler recommends or anything that I'd actually do, but I think I'd say something like, "You'll never forgive me? Boo hoo." And then you roll the agreement up and you say something along the lines of putting it where the sun doesn't shine.
I'm sorry, but sometimes some of the stuff that I read on this forum raises my hackles.
No if I don't sign the agreement she can't cover her affair as far as alimony is concerned. So she was pressing for this reason I guess. Because I had tracked her car and was close to hiring a pi - both of which she either found out about or I told her - confrontation. She was so concerned about rapping this up quickly so as she felt she couldn't go out with her friends without feeling guilty... Affair affair affair!! Everything is in super fast forward mode ... I'm trying to slow things down without much effect. She is right now switching her phone from my plan to her parents... So I can't look at her calls on the bill.
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
Luckily she and the kids (inlaw vacation) for the family trip I am uninvited to for a week. Don't know if she intends to have a decision before she leaves for the beach. I'm not signing anything no matter how much she says... Well so and so did it without lawyers.. She didn't even want to have a different address... Hello state says you must have diff address to be separated... No hw done on any of this exit... Worse plan ever !!!
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
Frankly, I believe if a couple is to define their M status as separated, they should live in S houses. I have not seen positive results from a so called in-house S. I have seen positive results with living in S houses.
In-house separation is the biggest cake eating ever!
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Frankly, I believe if a couple is to define their M status as separated, they should live in S houses. I have not seen positive results from a so called in-house S. I have seen positive results with living in S houses.
In-house separation is the biggest cake eating ever!
Sandi2 I have finally found proof of an affair. My family is at the beach with my inlaws. My daughter has s MacBook that she watches Netflix on. While back her phone had broken and she used the Mac to iMessage friends. While checking messages she came across messages from my sis inlaw to my w. Talking about affair and being happy. The next was between the best friend of the op and my wife. Talks of how they make each other happy and that if I "F" with op that they would kill me or my wife says she would kill me and dispose of my body easily. Now this had to be discovered by accident by my d13. And she is angry. I am 4hrs away and unable to comfort her. We are the only ones that know she found this information, except for my close family who counsel me. At first learning this info yesterday I was or felt empowered and strong. Today it's another story.. Empty house , knowledge of affair, slow day...cycle of ups and downs. Went to church today , just feel as though it somewhere I need to be. She has several friends there and quickly got txt saying why are you at church ? All those Sunday's you worked or didn't go with us.. Rarely worked on Sunday and sometimes took the day off from everything since it was my only day off...to rest and recharge... Not every Sunday perhaps once a month.so I guess this is rewrite? Kinda at a loss as what to do with my new found info... A have a week to think and let stuff play out while they are at beach. W is still pressing for a separation agreement so she can carry on this relationship without scrutiny.? She has no where to go .. One that the kids could stay. Should I expose my proof of affair to inlaws and others? Use it for bargaining tool? At this time im done with M ... When your wife says she wants you dead and dispose of your body and goes on to say she'll feel no remorse... Time to run and don't look back
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
Sandi2 I have finally found proof of an affair. My family is at the beach with my inlaws. My daughter has s MacBook that she watches Netflix on. While back her phone had broken and she used the Mac to iMessage friends. While checking messages she came across messages from my sis inlaw to my w. Talking about affair and being happy. The next was between the best friend of the op and my wife. Talks of how they make each other happy and that if I "F" with op that they would kill me or my wife says she would kill me and dispose of my body easily. Now this had to be discovered by accident by my d13. And she is angry. I am 4hrs away and unable to comfort her. We are the only ones that know she found this information, except for my close family who counsel me. At first learning this info yesterday I was or felt empowered and strong. Today it's another story.. Empty house , knowledge of affair, slow day...cycle of ups and downs. Went to church today , just feel as though it somewhere I need to be. She has several friends there and quickly got txt saying why are you at church ? All those Sunday's you worked or didn't go with us.. Rarely worked on Sunday and sometimes took the day off from everything since it was my only day off...to rest and recharge... Not every Sunday perhaps once a month.so I guess this is rewrite? Kinda at a loss as what to do with my new found info... A have a week to think and let stuff play out while they are at beach. W is still pressing for a separation agreement so she can carry on this relationship without scrutiny.? She has no where to go .. One that the kids could stay. Should I expose my proof of affair to inlaws and others? Use it for bargaining tool? At this time im done with M ... When your wife says she wants you dead and dispose of your body and goes on to say she'll feel no remorse... Time to run and don't look back
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
Tofbrks, I'm so sorry your D found that info and sorry that an A has been confirmed. That's an awful comment from your W about killing you - what a dreadful thing to have written - and I'm so sorry you and your D read that.
What seems clear is that she's deep within the grip of this A and not thinking straight to write ridiculous stuff like that.
What do you do next? Well, I think you have a pretty volatile situation with an (understandably) angry and upset daughter. My guess would be that if you don't confront your W with this info in the near future, your D will.
I wouldn't involve your in laws in any way at all. If you do anything, I would link directly with your W and her only. One option might be to copy the messages that have been read and send them to her, letting her know that unfortunately your D has read these too.
What are the implications here from your end? From your POV, what is going to happen now that you have this information. What steps will you take to protect yourself (emotionally and financially) whilst your W is active in an A. These are the things to decide on and calmly communicate to her I would say.
I would encourage you to let the dust settle before you make any huge decisions (ie: to file for D. But I'd be tempted to interrupt that week at the beach with the information you have - but that's JMHO of course.
I'm sorry for how things have unfolded. Try to be the sane and calm one here and know that things will ultimately improve. It does take time, but every step forward is a step closer to a better time in your life.
Take care & I hope something here helps you
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Tofbrks, I'm so sorry your D found that info and sorry that an A has been confirmed. That's an awful comment from your W about killing you - what a dreadful thing to have written - and I'm so sorry you and your D read that.
What seems clear is that she's deep within the grip of this A and not thinking straight to write ridiculous stuff like that.
What do you do next? Well, I think you have a pretty volatile situation with an (understandably) angry and upset daughter. My guess would be that if you don't confront your W with this info in the near future, your D will.
I wouldn't involve your in laws in any way at all. If you do anything, I would link directly with your W and her only. One option might be to copy the messages that have been read and send them to her, letting her know that unfortunately your D has read these too.
What are the implications here from your end? From your POV, what is going to happen now that you have this information. What steps will you take to protect yourself (emotionally and financially) whilst your W is active in an A. These are the things to decide on and calmly communicate to her I would say.
I would encourage you to let the dust settle before you make any huge decisions (ie: to file for D. But I'd be tempted to interrupt that week at the beach with the information you have - but that's JMHO of course.
I'm sorry for how things have unfolded. Try to be the sane and calm one here and know that things will ultimately improve. It does take time, but every step forward is a step closer to a better time in your life.
Take care & I hope something here helps you
Yes sotto it's a fine line between causing her pain and causing damage to both of us. Everybody was already suspicious so it will come with little shock. My D is calm and dealing with it well, she knows the timing during this vacation is wrong to let this get out. We'll just see where this week takes us.
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Anyone on here familiar with iMessage and shared Apple ID? My wife and daughter share id. She has iMessage on her macbook. She is able to switch between an email address and I guess the two phones linked to the ID. If she were to switch to my W's # would it send an alert to my W's phone stating such? I know this only does iMessages but this info would be better than nothing. Thanks for any help
Me:47 XW 43 D15 D10 Together 17 married 15 Bd : Mother's Day 2015 Sep :July 2015 Divorce final October 2016
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
