Life 2.0

[Zues126]

I'll never understand it.

If you took 100 people and asked them to list out everything that was important in a marriage...then asked them to prioritize those things...I wonder what that list would look like.

Because it seems to me that at the core...the very core...would be someone that is committed, loyal, dependable, and that will be by your side for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, until death do you part.

In fact, that would really have to be number one, right? I mean, no one says "It would be more important that my spouse kept a tidy house, even if they leave me after 15 years at least I'll remember how tidy the house used to be". That wouldn't make sense.

No, commitment is the number one priority in a marriage.

So when a WAS goes and shacks up with another person, they can have a lot. And when you look at the surface I'm sure it's great, I'm sure they're having a great honeymoon phase. But no matter what, they can NEVER rebuild the commitment they had, because they've already broke one vow to God, hard to just say "but this time I mean it!" I mean, if you can't honor vows after growing up together and having a family together, how are you going to honor them when you're just trying to ride the honeymoon wave?

My wonder is whether they'll be happy for 5-10 years and then devastated when they break up down the road...or whether they both know deep in their gut that it won't last and that it's horribly wrong and they've screwed up, so they're just trying to enjoy the honeymoon while they can because they know there will be hell to pay, and they're living in dread of the aftermath like someone drinking to a stupor when they know they have a big day at work the next day and reality will come pretty soon.

For me I would guess that I'd be sick the whole time. It wouldn't take until BD in 9 years to be devastated over the situation. I think I'd know from day one that something was horribly wrong, and that it wouldn't last, and that it was all just shoveling piles of chit into the hole that my committed relationship and family used to exist. Then again, that's why I'm not a WAS. It's possible that WAS's wouldn't feel the same sense of loss because maybe the commitment just doesn't mean as much to them, or they're not as sensitive to that, and they're comfortable just medicating away. Maybe they never believed they could make a relationship work so are just trying to have some good sex before they die.

I don't know. I guess it doesn't matter. That's just what I think about sometimes when I watch this crap. I'll never get it, and I'm glad for that.

As for you P, the reason you feel loss is because you lost your husband. Whether he died, turned into a lying cheater pants, or always was one and hid it from you...either way you THOUGHT you had a good man, and now you don't. That is the loss. You lost the perception of a good partner in your life. That is the toughest loss in the world. And along with it goes a lot of faith in humanity, and that sits in your gut the way the futility of the rebound must sit in theirs. So it doesn't matter how full your life is now, or how big of a jerk he is. It will hurt.

And you've lost the 'witness' to your life. The other person that can be there to see you experience the suffering and adversity you go through, and that can share some of the good moments. The person that knows your inside jokes, that knows who you were when you were 20, and that saw you grow over the years. The person that knows all of your childhood stories, your traditions, the things that used to matter. All of the values and feelings you could never explain, that have to be observed for decades to encapsulate. This man knew you, and now that witness is gone. That's very hard.

Which is why DB forums are so great. We can start to know you know. We can be your witness. We are here knowing what you are going through, and learning more and more who you are.

I don't know how I would've gotten through without them. I hope they give you some comfort as your world continues to rock.

Thanks for posting updates P and keep hanging in.

[Painter]

Zues, great and valid points, and very helpful to think about right now.

I have to be brief because I'm so drugged I have to go lie down. I had a very long conversation with H this morning. Brief conclusion is - he knows he did some crappy things, he never considered *not* doing them even though he knew they would hurt me, he lied because he didn't want to hurt me and he still loves me. I have my thoughts about all of this but I'll come back to them later.

We're going to talk more, it was actually a good conversation, although I cried at times.

[JujuB]

I've been crying more or less all the time since Thursday. The tears were just streaming down even while I was at work today. I take meds (Xanax type), but they're not stopping the tears. They make the pit in my stomach a little less intense. I actually feel dehydrated from all the crying.

I am so sorry Painter. It's probably cathartic. After I went through this, it was followed my much relieved numbness and detachment. I hope it's the same for you as well.

I talked to H twice today. It started off badly with him hanging up on me several times (trying to avoid what he knew was coming), then we had two decent conversations. He's still trying to lie and claims that he didn't tell me because he doesn't want to hurt me. After talking for quite a while, he suggested to call me tomorrow morning when he's driving for an hour to a meeting tomorrow morning.

Please read and reread your statement above, over and over if you have to. Your husband disrespects you by hanging up on you, incredibly insulting. He is lying to you. And he is manipulating you. He is the perpetrator and you are looking to him to comfort you. This has to stop. It's not real comfort. It's just lies. Please painter, start looking within yourself for this comfort.

I cried quite a bit on the phone and he said his heart is breaking over hearing me so sad. He also sent me an e-mail about how bad he feels. I think he deserves a little heartbreak and I hope it soured his evening with OW.

You are trying to rationalize with him and guilt him into feeling something he is simply incapable of feeling. Look at his actions. If he really felt bad, he would never have done this. Again, his comfort and words are lies.

He said he wanted a Suzy Homemaker (I said 'Suzy Homewrecker is more like it') and that she gets up at 4:30am to make him lunch every day. She lives only for him, it seems, a real, old-fashioned housewife which is what he wanted. Wonder how long that will last. It does get lonely to do everything by yourself and serve on someone else and make them the focus of your life.

I said it was hard to understand that it was what he wanted when he kept saying I needed to get a job.

reading this made me FURIOUS. If he wants a codependent, stupid, deceitful, insecure maid for his partner over an intelligent, passionate, and soulful woman let him have that and move on graciously. The two of them are beneath you. They really are. You have served your purpose for him and now he needs someone to make him lunch everyday. That's all this is about.


I don't know why I'm so devastated. I really thought I was further ahead. I think it's that she moved in took all hope away for any reconciliation in my mind. But why would I want to reconcile with this man? I'm at a loss over myself. I'm seeing my counselor tomorrow at 5pm.

I was thinking that it feels like that when I was with H, I was somebody and now I am nobody. I know it's a weird feeling because I normally have good self-esteem and am active and involved in many things, but now it feels like there is no reason for my existence.

I think that once the emotions pass, you will be able to reflect on this more logically. Right now you are in the midst of betrayal, lies, deceit, and manipulation. You have to climb out of that and look at things from a more clear position. If you keep calling and talking to him your just further entrenching yourself in more lies, betrayal, deceit, and manipulation. Your wasting your time and energy. Your existence has been dampened by him. No one should have ever have that much power over you. So take it back.

I hope I Am not coming across too strongly. I know how different it feels when it is some one else's situation versus your own. It's just I know what a strong woman you are and you will get through this and look back on it with a completely different perspective.

[JujuB]

The fact that he even told you that she is waking up at 4:30 am to make him lunch is disgusting.

Why would anyone say that to someone that is hurting because they betrayed them????? It's really sick and unnecessarily cruel. He is trying to hurt you but in a really manipulative way.

look at this as an outsider.


Also don't make any decisions about divorce process yet until you are more detached. I'm going to play Devils advocate here. Every action has consequences. your husbands actions were deplorable. He was a serial cheater, so why shouldn't he have to accept those consequences regarding your home ownership and marital stake? Why continue to enable his bad behavior. Let him learn consequences like the rest of the world. You embraced his family and You sacrificed your career to take care of his family!!!

I understand not exploiting the legal system but I don't think you would be. I don't think that giving up something that was yours is being the bigger person. It's not like you ordered a order of protection against him and abandoned him and cheated and are taking the kids away. He broke his commitment and contract and you know what? There are consequences when people do that.

I think it's great that your in a state where there is a deterrent for your husbands behavior.

just something to consider.

[Painter]

Juju, I hear you and I could have posted the same.
I agree with much of what you say.

There are a couple of reasons why I'm working to get the truth out of WH, but I don't want to post too much about that here. But yes, I'm not going to keep calling him or talking to him much, it's not good for me. And you're right, I'm trying to get him to comfort me and he's the perpetrator. I said as much to him when I was there and found out about the A a little over a year ago. I remember looking at him and saying, I want you to hug me and make it all go away but you're the one who is doing it so you can't comfort me. And then I cried harder than I can remember ever for most of the night, alone in my bedroom.

There may not be anything I can do legally at this point. I have signed a S agreement and transferred the house to him. He tricked me.

I agree with your Suzy Homewrecker comment but I personally found solace in hearing what her life is like now. She used to be into self-care and pedicures and posting silly selfies on FB. Now she's scrubbing my H's toilet and getting up in the middle of the night to make him lunch. I say she deserves it. Especially when he starts yelling at her, too - which he actually said he knew might happen (he brought that up).

The waking up at 4:30 came out of my questions, he didn't volunteer it. He says it's like a partnership, it's not about passion. He just wants the peace and quiet and no demands of any kind.

[Painter]

Checking in from the T's waiting room. I haven't cried in 4 hours. New personal best in the last 5 days.

I went to work to do a phone conference training, so that was distracting. Then grocery shopping and I managed to not break down there.

A thought hit me. WH said he originally planned to wait 6 months before getting into a new R or have OW move up (yeah, right) but that OW had to move up there sooner because she was broke. Supposedly, she retired early because it was such a horrific job, then lived off her retirement which is now almost gone, and has only a small pension to cover her credit card payment and car payment. She has not enough to live off after, it sounds like! She lived rent-free in her parent's house (a trust) because she had a bankruptcy.

So - this brings me to WH's savior complex! He did the same thing with me - but he thought I needed saving more than I did. I was a single mom, but managed well on my own. He was very proud over what he offered me.

Something here about getting a woman he feels he can save to come keep house for him in a dependency dynamics? Not wanting an equal?

[Zues126]

Men like to be needed by their woman. It's not that they don't want an equal, but it gives them a purpose. And with how many women walk away from marriages and decide they don't need men, I can see why men might try to 'protect' themselves by having a woman dependent on them financially. That doesn't work anyway, XW proves that because between divorce attorneys and government help no one truly suffers consequences for their choices in our country anyway.

I know you'll have to spin a little, but I'd really try to avoid diagnosing WAH. Family of origin issues, personality disorders, faulty belief systems, all of that. It's a very destructive road to go down. When you find yourself thinking about it let go of those thoughts.

Not that I'm defending him. I'm on record of saying that I put WAS's at the same level as murderers, they effectively killed your spouse and destroyed your family. No reason to defend that action. But the emotions that drive that chain of thought are all pretty negative and come from a dark, dark place.

Instead replace those thoughts with things you are appreciative in your life. Appreciation has been my savior. I could look at the gaping hole in my soul, but instead I choose to focus on what I have been given. The more I focus on what I've been given the more fulfilled I have been, much more than before. But though I have 'less', I've been forced to learn to appreciate what I have, and that has been a blessing and has made my life better.

I know you are at rock bottom so I'm not chiding you. Just remember, one measure of a person is how they behave at their worst. This is your worst. Time to show your beliefs by how you conduct yourself, even privately, during the worst pain you'll hopefully ever experience in your life. It's normal to think about this a little, but don't feed that fire.

Keep posting P. We are all here with you.

[JujuB]

The waking up at 4:30 came out of my questions, he didn't volunteer it. He says it's like a partnership, it's not about passion. He just wants the peace and quiet and no demands of any kind.

I definatly see some similarities in our husbands, although I didn't have to deal with the pain of having an affair thrown in my face (although some pretty big suspicions)
It makes one feel completely disposable to be valued for something like that. I totally relate! Is it a weird engineer thing? My husband actually told me something like, he could never meet my needs for physical and emotional affection and I could never meet his needs for domestic support. That neither of us are compatible. When I asked him what he was looking for he actually told me "someone like my mother" . ( I am the first to admit his mother is superwoman )

Zues, my husband never wanted to be needed. I am pretty sure he would never go for someone that was dependent on him. (Our finances were always kept separate and we divided most things up) He told me he would never even get a pet because he didn't want the responsibility. He was not needy either though. Very independent.

I understand the desire to diagnose and understand the how's and whys of our spouses. I agree it really doesn't make a difference or solve anything though..unfortunatly.

Sorry for hijacking.

I

[Phoebe]

Painter I hope that you are having a peaceful evening and that your therapist was able to help you gain some additional clarity about what you are going through right now.

I don't know how you are managing to handle so much contact with your H. You are one tough cookie, because I'm pretty sure I'd be down for the count. Instead, you are getting out of bed and going out and doing your job, getting yourself to an appointment, buying groceries. That shows some serious fortitude, my dear. Yes, you're crying, too, but you are one incredible woman.

I agree with Zeus and JuJuB that thinking too much about H's mental state isn't worth much of your time. His head is much too crowded for you to try to get in there, too. It's natural to want to try to understand the other person, but the truth is that you really can't. As my father says, you can't rationalize with an irrational person. In that same vein, I think that a moral person of integrity will never really be able to understand a person who lies and cheats. Your minds just works too differently.

I hope that you get some sleep tonight, Painter.

Sending you a huge hug.

[Painter]

I wrote a long post and then changed my mind. I am processing so many painful thoughts and memories right now, and am beating myself up about the mistakes I made during the M.

I saw the T today and she says I have to remember that regardless what mistakes I made, I was always willing to work on them, see counselors, ask H what he wanted and needed, etc. He wasn't willing to do the work or didn't believe it was possible.

I'll be going to bed shortly before the tears start again, have much work to do from home tomorrow.