I thought your family had left from what you posted earlier. So, it's back to normal, i.e., not eating w/the family and crying he's under appreciated, etc. I wonder if his parents or his siblings off loaded their responsibilities on to him. His projection certainly sounds like it.
You have to be compassionate and yet firm w/these crisis people. Killing them w/kindness makes them step back just a bit because they are expecting us to react in a negative manner. But, I will warn you...he may try even harder to get you to lose your patience...don't take the bait. He really doesn't have the nerve to walk out the door on his own, i.e. he needs a really serious justification to do so. Don't help him! If he really wants to leave, it will under his own steam.
They all tend to say it's time for them to have some fun and yes, freedom to do what they want and when they want to. They also like to say that they want don't to be told and/or controlled. It's very sad that they don't or can't realize that they are adults and they do have the freedom to make choices all of the time.
Be prepared...there will be more nit picking and snarly remarks along the way. He's not happy w/himself.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Job - I know he was left alone for too long at too young of an age. So I am sure he was handling things an adult should have been doing. He wasn't cared for properly in any way, shape or form. He knows that now because he has seen what his kids have. And he has been overtly jealous of that for years. (That is very unattractive, let me tell you.)
I see he is itching for a fight. I am no where in his space and he is constantly seeking me out to fight with me. I can't even come close to giving him a fight. I feel so sorry for him and how truly lost he is. I don't even feel angry. I just feel sorry for what has become of him.
And yes, the under appreciation is a huge theme for him. I think if I scheduled a daily parade for him it wouldn't be enough. I validate where it makes sense and thank him as well. At some point he needs to figure out that it should make HIM happy to do the things he does. He needs to determine where the meaning in his life is. How long can he hide behind closed doors and run all around before he figures out none of that is working? I am exhausted from watching him.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho, I really think they expect us to act like Mom and show our disapproval and come down on them, etc. I keep thinking about kids who don't get the attention they want/need so they act out ... sort of like getting Mom and Dad riled up is better than no attention at all. But by reacting negatively to that (and I think most of us do in the beginning) it just fuels their dislike for us, keeps us in the enemy status and justifies to them that what they are doing is the "this is for me, I don't care what you think about it and you can't stop me." camp. Rebellion.
It is obvious that you are taking great care with your boys to get them through all this and your H sees that. I think your observation, based on what you've said about his childhood, regarding jealously is probably right on.
In your shoes, I'd work very hard to not take his bait, to remain calm, cool and collected when he "acts out" and balance that with a dose of appreciation and praise when it's warranted. Hopefully, at some point he'll work harder to gain those positive reactions from you in lieu of acting out to get your attention.
Sadly, it's a long road and that may take a while.
Me: 59 and holding H: :53 Me: 1 S, 1 D, both grown M: 19 T: 23 BD: 9-23-2013
I think if I scheduled a daily parade for him it wouldn't be enough.
I loved this!! and Yes, this phase can last a long time. I think your and Job's interchange is on the money about them taking responsibility too young. My xh's parents expected him to be self sufficient from sixteen onwards. He paid his own way through High School and College, and they told themselves what great parents they were. (This wasn't an economic necessity, although they told themselves it was)
I am all for self reliance, but they really carried it too far. At the same time they kept a tight emotional stanglehold on him, so he had to be financially responsible, but they treated him like a little kid. You can't have it both ways!
I think he resented the fact that our own children were given so many opportunities. But we were in a position to do this for them, and why wouldn't we.
Now, many years down the line he is hugely proud of what they accomplished, and beginning to see (for now!) that I held the family together for ten years while he waltzed away in la-la land.
I wouldn't mind a small fanfare of trumpets for this, but perhaps not every day. It could lead to a ringing in the ears.
2X2Many - I think you've hit on something. I agree that he is looking for excuses to justify his rebelliousness. And you're right that I should not take the bait on any of his rebellious antics but I should reward the good behavior--just like I do with my kids. Thanks for the pointers. Sometimes, it's so helpful to receive the parenting pointers (although it's ever so bizarre that I apply them to my h).
Bea - All of us here give you more than a collective fanfare of trumpets! You sure deserve it. I read the bit on your thread about the moment of clarity after 11 years. That's sobering, certainly. I know it's taken so long; but still it must feel good to receive it finally.
And I agree, that for many of these MLCers the resentment kicks in when they see us parenting and nurturing our own children. It's must be quite a painful light bulb that goes off.
So, this evening h started to treat me like I exist (again). I never re-read my threads but I wonder if there is some discernible pattern? Like every x months he goes crazy and then he peeks out for a longer bit?
We were driving to S10's game and h offered the kids a mint. He has taken to ignoring me completely since I don't know when (I would have to look back at my thread). This time he offered me a mint, too. I said no thanks politely (just brushed my teeth). He was very, very chatty the whole night. I just listened. Maybe I said 40 words all night?
Then after the game h suggested we all grab a bite. S12 wants his soup in a bread bowl and h thinks he should just have it in a regular bowl and dip the bread they give him into the soup. Are you asleep yet?!? Every time we go to this restaurant they have the same conversation. And so it starts again like they've never had it before?!? H jokes that S12 can't have the bread bowl but his mother (that's me) can. Hmm. I exist again. Interesting. At the restaurant I was going to grab some waters and before I left h asked what I wanted him to order for me. I thanked him.
Not sure if this is start to a little peek out or not. Time will tell.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho, I don't know what to say about your H's MLC any more. It really sounds like an extended stay at the MLC resort at Kookooland doesnt it? I agree with other posts, you are doing great. I am new to this but no way could I deal with your H as kindly as you do. In fact my H is ten times easier than your H and I'm an emotional wreck. I hope things get better for you and the boys xxx
"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"
“There is freedom waiting for you, On the breezes of the sky, And you ask "What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, What if you fly?”
To give you a perspective of the MLC mind, chores and taking care of the kids is pressure for them. I recall when I was in the midst of my own MLC, I just couldn't handle doing the dishes. It felt overwhelming and I would literally walk away from the kitchen thus leaving the dishes for Ms. Wonka to wash up after dinner (or party).
Nowadays, I am completely unbothered by washing the dishes and drying them. I still catch myself in wonderment when I do the dishes nowadays...telling myself, "This is nothing! So utterly simple and mundane." I just.couldn't.cope.WITH.the.dishes for the duration of my MLC.
Hi Esame - thanks for the words of encouragement. You are doing very well. Keep putting one foot in front of the other and keep very busy: physically, mentally and intellectually.
Wonka - your post could not have come at a better time. Thanks for reminding me how fatiguing depression is. It's a good reminder for me, too. There's always a let down when my sisters leave. Your post was a much needed taser to get myself busy lest I slip into a funk myself. Your words spurred me to productivity; so thanks. I am curious, did you have much paranoia in your MLC and if so, was it projected onto Ms. Wonka?
So, h spent all of yesterday hiding in his dorm/closet. Ciluzen - thanks for the wishful thinking. I was thinking that it has been so very long since I have had a glimpse of old h. It would be nice to see him as I feel myself forgetting who he was. But mostly, as Ciluzen pointed out I really need a break from this crazy, angry person. So I will gladly take the hiding, quiet personality that re-surfaced yesterday.
I think killing him with kindness works best when he spews. Obviously, there are times when the best I can do is ignore. But if there is any kindness I can show, I will do so.
I try to put as much distance between us as possible. But, as we are both under the same roof, that is easier said than done. Mostly, I feel like at best, there is just one of those flimsy curtains dividing us; like you find in hospitals that "divide" two rooms. No matter how much you can't see, you are still forced to hear a bunch of stuff you don't want to know.
There are no "real people" in my life who know what is going on. Well, I take that back. I think my sweet neighbors have an inkling. But no one outside of them. And so it was good to have my sisters here. My eldest sister is a tough cookie. She doesn't really buy into a lot of psycho babble stuff. She has excellent coping skills and thinks people always have choices. It was good for me that she, above all people came and lived "this." I know it re-shaped her paradigm. Boy, did she get hit over the head with the MLC frying pan. By the time she left here, she was furrowing her brow, rubbing her temples and there were little stars and yellow birds circling her head.
It can be lonely living with the MLCer.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
I am unable to recall instances of paranoia. However, I hated, HATED being judged and that probably heightened my paranoid thoughts to a certain degree.
I nearly pulled out of a week-long family trip to Martha's Vineyard where most of all Ms. Wonka's family joined for this particular adventure and all had to share a house (horrors of horrors for me as a MLCer) together. Because I hated the notion that 1,001 eyeballs were possibly directed at me judging every friggin' move I made. Here's more fun stuff that happened during that trip.
Yep, I was a World Champ Bed Edge Hugger. I slept on the far edge of the bed....as close to the drop off as possible. To confuse Ms. Wonka further, I asked her to slather after-tan lotion on my back in the evenings. Then off I went to my own corner.
Oh and there's more. This wasn't the end of the MV trip. The next story is a real doozy! Read on....
One of those day trips to the beach by Edgartown, I stayed on the beach area where there was dunes around a small pond that was adjacent to the Atlantic ocean playing with our then 3-year old nephew and my BIL and his good friend while MIL and FIL sat around us. Ms. Wonka and her sister went off to swim in the ocean.
At one point, Ms. Wonka came up breathless and said, "Wonka, I almost drowned out there! The water was rough and choppy." My reaction? A muted "Oh" and went right back to playing with nephew.
Keep in mind, to a normal person, one would show appropriate level of concern for Ms. Wonka's terror and wellbeing, right? Me, nope. Not so much. I was numb and dead inside.
