Twisting in the wind

[CWOL]

Thanking your wife for telling you she is going to spend the night with the OM is . . . odd.

Very odd, indeed.

[AndrewP]

AndrewP,

darknes is being exceedingly kind.

I don't know if there's a cultural difference or if it's something else, but when a WW tells her H that she's going to go boink the OM this weekend, then that normally elicits a reflexive response of foot to @ss in the direction of the door. What's up? Do you have no boundaries?

doodler - another good question. Yes - I have boundaries. They don't apply to her - she has to have her own boundaries. It may be a cultural difference that considers her part of my family still (Scottish descent) and yes I've felt that reflexive twitch in my foot.

If I've learned nothing else from being here about a month it's that I as an individual cannot change my WW. I can express my disapproval, I can weep quietly into my pillow at night but nothing I do will change her. I can only change myself.

A foot to the @ss as you so cleverly put it to avoid the censor button might make me feel good temporarily. It might possibly even shake her loose from her fog but knowing my WW as a man can know a woman over 27 years, I know that if she is pushed, she will rise up like a tiger and fight back. I truly don't know what would happen then.

I remember many years ago I came across some young punks on the street vandalizing property. Being stupid - and still AndrewP - I collared the worst of the offenders and told him in no uncertain terms to fix up what he had broken. They all pulled knives on me. I had a knife of my own (pocket variety) and there we were in a stand-off until others arrived and broke it up. Perhaps not the best analogy - but nothing constructive was accomplished. The vandalized property was still vandalized and serious injury nearly happened to a number of rather stupid and over-testosteroned young men.

[AndrewP]

Thanking your wife for telling you she is going to spend the night with the OM is . . . odd.

Very odd, indeed.

Not quite. I was thanking my wife for having the courtesy of honestly telling me where she was going and with whom. She's been doing it about pretty much all her movements for the last number of days (I didn't notice at first). The fact that one of her many movements is to be with OM - and only spoken of in terms of being away overnight was unfortunate. But I also need to remember that I originally acknowledged on BD her stated intention to continue the A while at the same time and since then making it clear that I find it very hurtful and that it is not something that I personally accept but know that I have no control over. I don't have to like where she is going or what she is doing there and yes - I feel rather soiled by being told, but the fact that she is making an effort to be courteous and honest to me is a looong way from where we were a couple of weeks ago.

Honesty is a virtue that I prize very highly and W knows that and prizes it herself even though she has always struggled with it.

Sometimes you hear things said honestly that are unpleasant or that you don't want to hear. That's just the way it is when you listen to the truth.

[dream]

You say you appreciate your wife being honest with you. I suppose it's good (?) to know that she has plans to have sex with her boyfriend this weekend... now you know where her thoughts have been and what her plans are for herself. However, I don't think she is being fully honest with you. She's leading you on and giving you false hope. I think she has no interest in working things out with you. I think, unfortunately, that you will be sitting here waiting for her until the day she hands you divorce papers and tells you that she's moving in with OM.

Has you relationship always been this way? She does whatever she wants and you just take it??

With regards to the lost lamb, in my eyes, it is you who is lost and we are trying to find you... yet you keep looking for your wife who has joined another flock.

You cannot change her. But you can change yourself. You can make yourself into a man only a fool would leave. Right now, it doesn't matter if she leaves because you told her you would be right here waiting for her...

It might possibly even shake her loose from her fog but knowing my WW as a man can know a woman over 27 years, I know that if she is pushed, she will rise up like a tiger and fight back. I truly don't know what would happen then.

I think this risk/chance is worth taking. You certainly aren't going to work things out the way things are going right now. There's no need to push her, but there is a need to stand up for yourself.

[MoveFrwd]

But I also need to remember that I originally acknowledged on BD her stated intention to continue the A while at the same time and since then making it clear that I find it very hurtful and that it is not something that I personally accept but know that I have no control over.

What does "not accepting" it mean to you?

It certainly seems to me like you are willing to accept it.........

[DDJ]

Wow Andrew. Dream is (always) right. How can you expect to be a third wheel between your WW and OM? I never want to be a third wheel. I've never been a third wheel actually, but don't plan on doing that for OM2 and my WW.

She just got her WiFi on and the first person she called was OM2, right next to me. Just friends chat really. So I ask myself does she really think that I think they're friends. Anyhows, acting as-if and enjoying the evening.

You are not even acting as-if, you're actually saying, thx for fcking someone else and telling me about it. Not good. Not good at all.

[AndrewP]

What does "not accepting" it mean to you?

It certainly seems to me like you are willing to accept it.........

Wow - I can't recall ever getting this much attention on my thread.

darknes - that's another interesting question as always. "Not accepting" to me means that I state clearly that something that another adult is doing is not something that I think is "right". I do have to "accept" though that WW is herself an adult and makes her own choices in life whether I agree with them or not. She is not my property, heck she's barely my wife. Other than stamping my little feet there is little that I feel that I can do.

Perhaps yes - I could use the evidence that I have filed away and push for a D with cause (allowed where I live). Or perhaps I could make threats to force her out of the matrimonial home which the constable who lives 2 doors down (and is a friend of WW's) would vigorously oppose. I could threaten to expose the A to our children and our families. Pounding my ape-chest and screaming into the night I feel none of this would do anything other than give me a minor bit of revenge.

Do I feel impotent? Damned straight I do. Am I impotent as far as affecting others? Yes I am. And that is why I cry in the night and try to smile in the day.

[DDJ]

Not good enough Andrew. I don't mean to get personal but you stand for nothing.

What do you really want to do? What do you believe is the right thing to do? Then just do it. If that's D then do it. If that's you leaving then do it.

BUT DONT DO NOTHING.

[Rose888]

No, don't pound your chest. Very unattractive, and also pointless.

But "not accepting it" should mean more than saying that it's wrong. That's not agreeing with it, which is a much weaker thing.

"Not accepting" would involve separate living quarters and separate finances.

[AndrewP]

You say you appreciate your wife being honest with you. I suppose it's good (?) to know that she has plans to have sex with her boyfriend this weekend... now you know where her thoughts have been and what her plans are for herself. However, I don't think she is being fully honest with you. She's leading you on and giving you false hope. I think she has no interest in working things out with you. I think, unfortunately, that you will be sitting here waiting for her until the day she hands you divorce papers and tells you that she's moving in with OM.

Has you relationship always been this way? She does whatever she wants and you just take it??

With regards to the lost lamb, in my eyes, it is you who is lost and we are trying to find you... yet you keep looking for your wife who has joined another flock.

You cannot change her. But you can change yourself. You can make yourself into a man only a fool would leave. Right now, it doesn't matter if she leaves because you told her you would be right here waiting for her...

I think this risk/chance is worth taking. You certainly aren't going to work things out the way things are going right now. There's no need to push her, but there is a need to stand up for yourself.

dream - [insert swear word here] I know that she has plans to have sex with another man. I've known that since BD2! She told me then. Can I do a damned thing about it? No. Should I shove my head in the sand and pretend that it doesn't happen if she doesn't tell me? No. Should I put on my big boy pants and if she does tell me, go ape-crazy? Or do I tell her like one adult to another that it is a cruel thing to do to me? That's about the best I think I can do right now. Using my fantastic mind-reading powers I believe that she doesn't want to hurt me will still do whatever she can to get that rush. Perhaps she's more like a junkie than anything else.

Yes I'm not perfect and perhaps telling her that I will wait for her was a mistake. Each situation IS different though while there are a lot of similarities enough to show that detaching, GAL etc are worthwhile in and of themselves and can have an impact on bringing a couple back together when they are apart and help build up people who are broken like I am. H@ll - if she were to hand me divorce papers this evening and say she's moving in with OM I'd sign right away. I could move on and she'd be happy.

Part of who I am and who I have been over the 27 years of marriage - 26 of which were if not great, at least very good - is I've always been the safe harbour for her. The calm place she can go when life gets to be too much. Yes - I - like my father before me and all my brothers - tend to be passive. We all married strong women. We are reliable, trustworthy, honest and do get taken advantage of. I know this about myself and the other men in my family. Much of this I admire except the last bit.

Has my wife joined another flock? I don't know. Am I a lost shepherd (sorry not very lamb-like) - yes I am. The analogy breaks down here - a bit over-used. Can I find my way back to myself? I'm trying. There's a story by author Terry Pratchett where two characters are surrounded by mirrors and told that the can escape if they can find the one that is "real". One character runs off to check each of the mirrors. The second one looks down at her boots and says this one right here. That's what I'm trying to do. I don't succeed most days - but that's where I feel I need to be. Looking down at my own boots and being comfortable in them. Can the people here on these forums find me? No. I do however appreciate them putting up signs for me to read that show the paths that they themselves have taken. Does that turn me into a man that only a fool would leave? I really don't know the answer to that question. I do intend that it turns me into me though - what other people including WW think of that person is up to them.