I talked to another coach (not DB-coach), and she's got such a complete opposite approach to my sitch. She knows a little more about the past as I've spoke to her on the phone for a few hours now. She said my W shows a pattern over the course of almost 10 years that seems to be repeating, and she's feeding off the control right now. Said W would continue 'controlling' the situation for as long as she can and I need to put my foot down and start looking out for myself, until she decides she wants to get her snit together too.
Like others have said, for this meeting specifically, I need to stay calm, collected, but I need to stop letting her have all the cards at play. Instead of comments like "What would it take for you to consider living under the same roof again while we work through this?"... She recommends "I statements", not rude ones, but just solid "I statements".
"I need to find stable ground for myself since you've decided to leave our marriage." "I will be sleeping at home from now on in order to provide myself the stability I need to gather myself and grow into the better person I want to be." ...I'm not kicking her out, I'm just saying, 'I'm no longer going to work on your schedule. I'm no longer going to allow you to control this situation 100%'.
She suggested I put $2k into the joint checking and tell her I've moved all my money into a separate account, and that she can spend that money left in the joint checking however she'd like. (hiring an attorney to file). but most importantly, to make it clear that since she's decided to quit on the relationship, we are no longer in this 'together', and I'll be taking care of myself from now on.
Not totally different, but certainly very different from the advice that the DB coach has suggested. She also said that a public, very busy, coffee shop is not the time nor place to have a discussion about our assets and divorce process. I should listen to anything she wants to say about it, but when it comes to be my turn just say "I just wanted to meet and see how you are doing because I care about you and well-being. I don't think this is the proper time to talk about assets/debts/money for your divorce."
My mantra from DB coach was "I do not think divorce is the solution, but I respect you and if that's what you choose, then I will let you go". to something more like "I care for you, and I want nothing but for you to be happy, and I will not stand in your way of what you want." Similar, but different. I have two hours before our meeting. I'm feeling pretty good about things now, and during the conversation I was antsy that - well, what if she takes the money and files... I actually think I'm okay with that now. I'm moving on because the person she is right now, is not the person I want to be married to. She has a lot to work on for herself, and if she's not willing, then I'm not interested. It's hard to drop the feelings of what a great thing we once had, but truth is, we both aren't those people anymore and if D is what she wants, I shall give it to her. But I'm going back to my house, and I'm taking care of myself first.
She said a lot of times when it's all about the W controlling everything and thinking she has the higher-hand, it's a shell-shock when the LBS turns around and says, "okay, you want the divorce? I've put $2k into the joint checking, you can spend it however you want. I've cancelled all joint credit, I transferred the billing of your cell phone bill into your name, you need to go to AT&T and sign the papers within 7 days or it will be shut off, and you'll need to find auto insurance before yours is set to expire.". She said more times than not, the W will not use the money to file, but to re-evaluate the situation.
She did say tho, that if I'm not ready for the divorce, I should hold off a little longer, but from what she knows, and what she's seen in the past, this is a win-win for me. She either steps back and looks at the situation from new eyes, or she runs away from her problems (like she always has), and I avoid any further 'bad patterns' I've had to deal with in being with her, and we both live on to find something happier/better in the future.
This is obviously a much more "hard ball" approach to the situation that the DB coaches tend to be against. I'm still undecided on how to handle the actual meeting in 2 hours. I need to have a full night/day at home to gather all legal documents, statements, etc, and change my address to the POBOX I have for my business, before I pull and REAL hard-ball stunts. I think I'll just take the meeting and when she asks why I don't have any papers, notes, etc, just be honest and tell her that I just wanted to see her and ask her how she's doing. And when she asks about any assets tell her I do not plan to talk about anything like that in a public place such as a busy coffee shop, but I'm here if she wants to let me know what she's thinking.
I understand that this meeting has you very nervous and afraid that you will say/do the "wrong" thing and blow everything forever, but its just a meeting in a coffee shop right now. I feel that "hardball" isn't quite necessary yet and you're fear is driving you to act on a future that hasn't happened yet. Once again, slow down and breathe.
"I think I'll just take the meeting and when she asks why I don't have any papers, notes, etc, just be honest and tell her that I just wanted to see her and ask her how she's doing. And when she asks about any assets tell her I do not plan to talk about anything like that in a public place such as a busy coffee shop, but I'm here if she wants to let me know what she's thinking."
Stick to this^^^ for right now. Just listen and validate. All of the other stuff, the "hardball tactics", can wait and be done in due time. The idea is for you to listen and act as if it isn't really breaking your heart or worrying you right now. Why would she ask about you not having any notes, papers, etc? Did I miss the part about this being a mediation or business meeting? Relax a bit and let her run the show with a half smile on your face. Sit back and relax. Detach and observe her. I bet the half smile and validation will be a 180 and illicit an interesting reaction.
By the way, if you are normally wordy...validating can be more profound if it is simple. Listen and say, "I hear you" or "hmmm. I think I understand." Even repeat a small phrase and ask her to clarify something, but be brief. Remember, you are agreeing with her feelings and letting her own them as feelings. Don't defend against her feelings, they are hers to feel...even if you don't agree. DBing is NOT about proving you are right.And often times those who "run the show" are so aggressive and/or controlling due to their insecurity and feelings of NOT being in control.
Hand it over and watch and listen quietly, bemused and in control through your stillness and detachment from her behavior.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Thank you cil, You're right in my worry of "one bad things ruins it forever". I need to get it through my thick skull that this is, in fact, a meeting in a coffee shop... and only the FIRST of probably many many more meetings regarding our sitch.
You did miss something, or I neglected to provide full details, but to HER, this is a meeting to discuss assets, debts, financial responsibility, etc, prior to getting lawyers involved. She thinks we should be able to settle our "asset" differences without the mediation of a lawyer involved to save costs. So when she said "lets meet to talk about XYZ, because we should be able to talk to one another about these things without lawyers present." My response was "I agree with you, we should be able to have calm conversation with one another without being angry and raging about something. I'd be happy to meet with you for a cup of coffee."
So I agreed to meet, but didn't necessarily tell her I'm going to be providing any details or suggestions on her decision of D. We have different goals and expectations from the meeting. She wants to divide assets/property/debts/etc, I just want to check in and see her and ask how she's doing. I've always been the one to handle finances and "adult responsibilities" like budgetting, knowing what comes in, what goes out, etc. I'll actually be impressed if she shows up prepared for once, as she's always been clueless about preparation for pretty much anything. Hell, you could even say its a 180 on her part, which I'd be more than happy to see.
Regardless of outcome, I'm going to keep in my mind that I'm just happy to see her, and I hoping she's doing well. Stay calm, stay positive, stay involved, but don't take over the conversation. Make things comfortable and just remember that this is a blessing to be around one another for a change.
I'm hoping it goes well for you, or at least just stays calm. Practice makes perfect and, even if this time doesn't feel right, DBing will get you through to a "next time". I can't even count how many times I've thought I blew it, but didn't give up. Still, even with D process happening, I'm not giving up.
I've always handled everything in our house including finances. Did everything so he could just concentrate on work, even when I went back to work once the kids were older. It has amazed me to see how little he knew and was prepared for our first mediation. My way of dealing with that? I make little to no effort to do things for him unless he asks, and if he doesn't do what he should, I let it go. I told him I would work my a$s off to save our marriage, but if he wanted to end it, then I guess I wouldn't fight him. But I would not effort it. Not in the least.
I will make sure it is a fair "business transaction", but nothing more. I'm not out to hurt him (still love him) nor am I going to allow his lack of knowledge about how this affects my life play a part in leaving me without resources. What I mean is, for example, he called our insurance person to start procedures to split our vehicle insurance (my car, his cars). They called and emailed me because our home email and phone were on record and he didn't give them a different phone or email. I spoke to the agent, got the quotes and relayed the info to H. He has yet to follow up on splitting the vehicles.I'm not taking care of this. I don't want it.
On the other hand, he wanted to give me the house in the D. I can't afford the payments, the maintenance, and its too big for just me. He told me I could sell it and I said no, we will sell it together (I couldn't afford to sell it on my own even!) then D after. He has come out to chop up a few trees and show me how to start our lawnmower (it has a trick to it)and promised to pay for repairs. That's it.I got the agent, painted, patched, hired a contractor to fix a patio cover, and fixed appliances. I moved his things downstairs. I packed up other "stuff" to get rid of clutter so it shows well. It has sold (within a week).That was effort to protect me, but not for the purpose of moving forward the D. I still won't effort that.
If I were you, I wouldn't do anything to help her split assets unless she specifically asks. Don't effort the destruction of your M if you are DBing. If she asks for, say, what your assets are, give her a list. But that's it. If she wants to know how much the house is worth, tell her to find an agent to value it. That's her job.
Just my 2 cents.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Alright, so, I'm "home" and as far as the meeting with my W went, some things went completely according to plan, others were strayed away from my plan of how I wanted it to go, but all in all, it was a Pleasant meeting. She showed up with a folder full of papers, and even place an 'extra' legal pad and pen in front of me when she realized I didn't have anything. I told her no thanks, and told her I wasn't here to discuss property division, assets, or debts. She looked confused and said "thats why we are meeting, right?" and I replied, "that's why you wanted to meet, I actually only agreed to meet to see you, have some conversation, and see how you were doing. And she started crying. It wasn't 5 minutes in and she said, 'we shouldn't have picked this place to do this.'
There were tears on her part, laughter on both parts. Joking. etc. It was a bitter sweet meeting. I took my plan of "be calm, listen, don't involve yourself in asset talk, relationship talk, etc", and combined it with the "stand your ground" input from my other coach, but as kindly as possible. I told her I wasn't here to talk assets and property, but just to be here, and be present for her. A few things she wouldn't let go, and about the house, I told her, "The house is something I view as solid ground for me to grow as a person and use as a stable ground for bettering myself as I work through this. I will not be selling, or leaving the house, and I plan to stay there from this moment on. You're welcome to come and go, but I will be there." (eventually there will be a date/timeline on the "come and go", but for now, this was good.) I thought I'd get anger thrown back at me, but she just went to the legal pad and under my name wrote "house." I couldn't believe it. She still expects her "half" to be returned in some form or another, but my attorney said she has no legal ground for that... premarital house, 2 yr marriage, in my name the whole time. The car conversation went about the same way, but told her she'll keep the car, and takeover payments, including full-coverage insurance, which total about 70% of her income. She just mumbled "I need a new job."... and we moved on.
She started naming off random knickknacks and materialistic things in the house, and I told her, I don't care. Just show up, take what you want that's not of "value", and whatever is left will be considered mine. The process of naming things off, and talking about them, was really starting to get to her, and she was crying a lot, so it was just "easier" to not talk about things individually. She was happy to 'not talk' about things, and have a simpler approach of "come get what you want." but she said she wouldn't take anything without telling/asking me first.
There were several times where our MR came up. She mentioned several times that this is probably going to be her biggest regret of her entire life, but she just doesn't see us being happy together. I validated her, empathized, and stopped there. My reaction to these comments usually led to raw emotions, crying, smiling, but almost always led to more questioning and I would respond, I'm not here to talk about our M/R. I'm just here to see her, etc etc. She would agg on, saying things like "I just don't think we would be happy, why do you think we should even consider a future." and my response was usually something like, "Our future isn't what is I'm here to discuss" and she's agg on more, "<Name>, I'm asking you, please tell me why..." I finally broke my plan and said, "I don't think that divorce is the right option for us, or anyone for that matter. There are reasons that marriages work, marriage don't work, and a once broken marriage can turn out to be better than any marriage that's never experienced hard times. And I'm not here to convince you, I'm just saying that happiness is something that can be achieved for anyone if you believe in yourself and what you're trying to accomplish." (These are the types of things she lives by, her mantra, it hit her pretty hard, but I could tell it was well received, even though it was out of plan).
The 'meeting' was filled with laughter, tears, 'business', and a little bit of everything else. There were several moments that I felt she wanted to just tell me how great everything could be, and outside of the one 'rant' above, I resisted because I didn't want to seem desperate, begging, etc. I just told her that I've made my decision on where I stand and what I'm doing, and it's up to her to choose her future, and I won't stand in her way.
There were a lot of emotions building up towards the end, and I wanted to it to end pleasantly, so I was first to suggest that maybe we should continue this another time when she's ready to talk again. She agreed and we departed. I did walk her to the car, and shared a big hug before she slid into the seat.
I can't say this went perfectly, but I definitely feel like this was a good meeting. She showed many signs of doubt, fear, worry, but nothing in her voice/tone/actions the entire meeting screamed to me that she's dying to get out of the marriage. Like you said, cil, these battles aren't won or lost during one small meeting like this, and this will probably just be the first of many many more. But if my feelings on how this one went are real, then I'm going to mark this one up as a small win for me.
There's something that is making me want to text her tonight and just say it was nice to see ya, hope your okay, etc. But I understand that a little distance goes a long way, and this is going to be a long road, so I'm holding off on any further texts...
Thank you everyone for your support and advice throughout this. I honestly couldn't be handling this the way I am without you all.
Overall, the meeting lasted about an hour. There were times where I could genuinely tell she was dropping her defenses, and softening a bit, and struggling to keep a seriousness about her reason for being there. It could be optimism, but I really felt that at times, there were glimpses of that partnership we used to have with one another. There was even talk of going to eat dinner afterwards, but I think we both wanted things to end on a good note, and know that our time should be limited so it was mutually declined. I'm back in my house, and it's known that I plan on staying here, and that didn't cause the outrage that I originally thought would come of it. I still have a lot on my mind, but hoping to sleep well tonight.
I woke up today feeling good about things, but can't say I didn't wish I would've woke up next to my W. As stated in above two posts, things went well at our first 'D' meeting, and I'm now staying at my house from here on out, that only means that she will not be staying there though, and will be moving out to her parents for good. At least that's the plan for now. She saw a 'better' side of me, but no way she's convinced that I'm safe for her to come back to. I still have more work to do on myself, I have time, I have to stay focused.
