Some days are better than others

[Sotto]

You're funny Doodler

[EDF]

Journaling. Last night was our big argument/discussion, with the crocodile tears from WW etc; the first time since BD she has actually cried. Today she was civil, but distant. I did pretty good at staying detached but upbeat.

Got home from work, and then went to meetup with a new group of runners for a long run that ended at a pub. Did ok socializing; I was the only new person but managed to participate in some of the conversations. During the run also chatted with a slightly older gentleman who ended up being divorced after mutual affairs played out. Was nice to have someone flesh and blood to talk to about the sitch, in broad strokes at least. Made myself stay through the whole pub portion even though I was out of my element.

WW informed me she still wants to drive separately to the event (12hr round trip). I told her she's welcome to do whatever she needs to. Stings, but whatever. Her loss since I would have been the one driving her the 12 hrs otherwise... now that's on her.

I still hope she is able to stay civil during the weekend itself. I have no expectations about her behavior, but if she tries to spew to other people about me, I would feel compelled to stand up for myself and that would probably involve telling the truth, so I hope she doesn't make me go there.

I'm debating whether it's worth the potential confrontation to tell her my boundary ahead of time, that I want to keep things civil but if she talks [censored] about me or tries to blame me for everything, I will defend myself with the truth.

I think something along those lines may be what I use to try and cut her off if she starts whining to other people about how horrible I was for "starting" the fight... "WW, the only way I can defend myself is by telling the full truth, so you might want to stop spewing."

[sandi2]

Eat two cans of baked beans one hour before going to bed. She'll leave on her own.

[EDF]

Martial arts event went well. WW was friendlier than she has been in quite some time. Said some very nice things to me, and about me to other people.

I focused my energy on being there for the team, and had a number of opportunities that really ended up showcasing some of the personal changes I've made. Got some compliments from WW on my new clothes. Many kudos from teammates for various things. I broke up an imminent fight between some spectators - one of those situations where people are yelling and beating their chest and everyone is watching the trainwreck as things start to get physical. Old me would have been sitting there with everyone else, thinking "Man, I hope someone does something about this." New me jumped in to the altercation and grabbed our guy and physically moved him away from the area before things got out of control; felt good to be the one taking action when no one else was.

I did good staying upbeat, and my focus on the team allowed me to not simply be hovering around near WW or sitting alone in the hotel room. WW was initiating some unnecessary physical contact, and talking about some future things for us to do. I did fairly good at keeping it casual and not getting overly excited. There was one wavering moment where she was touching me and moved her hand to my neck and I kinda looped my arm around her waist and pulled her in... made friendly eye contact for a couple seconds, but I broke it off before I did more. I will admit I was very tempted to start some sort of R talk, but I was able to resist that.

Last night, she initiated an R talk. She expressed interest in fixing things and willingness to do some things to build something better, but it was not yet "I will do whatever it takes to win you back." I did a lot of listening, but I probably still did more talking than I should have. In retrospect I think I would have been better off just saying things like "You were the one who was uncertain, what do you think us moving forward would look like?" and be more aloof rather than answering her questions.

GAL activities have me pretty booked the next couple nights, so we probably won't talk much more until Friday. She has been friendly today, texting, sent me a date night idea, concert idea, etc... kinda blowing up my phone. Some of her actions have been positive but the way she talks about things I feel like she still considers my emotional unavailability was almost as bad as her EA and she is resisting breaking contact with "just friends" OM, so clearly has further to go.

Truthfully my part of things was pretty bad, and it went on for a long time. I accept responsibility for that, but our M certainly wasn't all bad, she sees how dramatically I have changed over the past few months, and I'm not interested in simply slipping back into a half-arse relationship on either of our parts so I know I need to move slow, ignore her words, and observe her actions. What she's offering is not yet the kind of "reconciliation" I want to see.

[qt4x11]

You're doing great. It sounds like you're in a better place emotionally and making progress on a lot of fronts.

[EDF]

Sigh. Well, just did the most difficult thing I think I've ever done.

To be honest, I've been seesawing rapidly all day about how to handle her offered "reconciliation". A big part of me desperately wants to take it at face value, to believe she really is choosing me and really does want to just be friends with OM. I want to tell myself, hey I'm awesome, even if she still has feelings for him, maybe I can out-compete him. Maybe I can so wow her with the new me that she decides to break things off on her own after a time...

WW continued to act nice this evening when I got home from GAL. Excitedly told me about a dance coming up and invited me to go with her, and asked me to join her in bed so we could cuddle some.

I joined her in bed. She snuggled up a bit, caressing me... I wanted to cave so bad, or maybe at least just delay things a day or two... Sigh.

I told her I appreciated the interactions we had today, and I want us to get there, but the more I think about it... I don't see a way we'll ever truly get out of limbo while she is still in contact with her affair partner. That her wanting to maintain any sort of relationship with the guy she cheated on me with, makes me feel like whatever connection she has with him is more important to her than I am. I deserve better than that, and I am worth it. Whatever gaps he is filling, or needs he meets, if we're serious about rebuilding things we should find out how I can meet them for you.

...that was the gist of it... tried to keep it short... after I said that she said "thanks for letting me know how it makes you feel", slowly withdrew from me and said "the only need he meets is as a friend". I didn't respond; got out of bed after a couple minutes to figure out my supper.

So that's where things are at tonight. She was doing so many of the things I want her to do... things I've been desperately hoping for since BD 2.5 months ago...

For journaling/posterity purposes, she had expressed willingness to:

- See a marriage counselor
- do more activities together
- cuddle and be physical
- let me know where she is, who she's with, etc
- We send OM an email underlining that she is working on fixing things with me, and if he ever does or suggests anything more than friends that she will break contact completely
- She would allow me to meet OM face to face (this was something I had asked about rhetorically since she keeps saying they're "just friends")
- We could hang out sometimes the three of us or double-dating with OM and fiance.

Things she was resistant to:
- Reading books about relationships/healing. Stated Reason: She's "not a big reader".
- Breaking contact with OM. Reason: "just friends", and she "can be herself around him".
- Allowing me open access to her texts/emails. Reason: "she doesn't think she should have to sacrifice her privacy, and is worried I would read too much into everything".

Obviously those things she is resistant to are biggies. I understand intellectually that I did the rationale thing, and that many of the things she was willing to do are just "cake eating" that benefits her... but I kinda really miss cake...

[sandi2]

- We send OM an email underlining that she is working on fixing things with me, and if he ever does or suggests anything more than friends that she will break contact completely

It does not work that way. Sending OM a letter stated like this ^^^^^ would be laughable to him. How do you think EA's begin? Here's the bottom line, if she choosing any friend over her H, the MR won't work. It is completely b.s. to suggest they shift from an affair relationship to a friends relationship. In your heart, you surely know it.

A friendship can lead to an affair, but an affair does not lead to a friendship.

-

She would allow me to meet OM face to face (this was something I had asked about rhetorically since she keeps saying they're "just friends")
- We could hang out sometimes the three of us or double-dating with OM and fiance.

Unbelievable!!

Do NOT play the part of the fool you would be by doing what she has suggested! You need to stop this b.s. right now!

[Coconut]

EDF, you did the right thing, her telling you she won't stop seeng him and won't be completely transparent are deal breakers, you will resent those things and it will not work. Also, the email telling him just friends is totally useless, cause she can tell him whatever she wants next time they hang out.

In my case, OM works for fire station and my W agreed to no communication with him but refused to quit fire station... I resent her not quitting, but I can tell you if I ever find out they are chatting, I'm done. No ifs, ands or buts, if she talks with him on a personal level I'm done.

Keep doing what you are doing, if she wants you she will agree to cease contact and allow you whatever you need to verify.. If not, your setting yourself up to repeat this process.

[Si_07]

I agree because trust me it doesn't work. My W kept this colleague at work she said she was attracted to as friends, everytime I found out about contact I was told it wasn't important. She chose that friendship over me and our kids. She kept him in the background as plan B in case I didn't change since all our problems were still my fault. I got it wrong last year, follow the advice here. I wish I had found this site last year.

[EDF]

Thanks for the truths and the support all. I agree 100%. I appreciate the frankness Sandi.

WW sent me a text this morning. BS fog "relationship" talk, but not sure if it's more appropriate to ignore or give a short but firm response.

WW text: "I'm trying to move forward but you chose to stay in limbo. It's been months that I've tried getting away from the thrill and obsessions. It was challenging but very trying. But I got there.

You make me feel that I'm not worth the inconvenience of me keeping this friend. Anyone who enters my life is in my life forever until they've done me wrong. That's just the way it is.

Try to get over your pride and jealousy. If you can't then it's going to get in the way of things."

[Certainly I don't believe she has really gotten to the point of being "just friends", although from her fog-induced state she may or may not believe that herself]

I am leaning towards a response like: "If you care more about holding on to him than holding on to me, it's your loss."

Although runner ups include "You already know how I feel on the subject", "lol", "I hope he's worth it.", or "I'm not interested in sharing you with the guy who tried to [censored] you while we were married."

Thoughts?