What Should I be Doing?

[Ralph88]

Thank you for posting it here. We all have similar failures in our marriages. We all made mistakes, but we too easily forget all the good we did also. We are in a period of focusing on our negatives, and I will bet that these negatives were rare and not the largest part of our Ms. We are too hard on ourselves and the things we did. There may be a time in the future where we are given the chance to say we are sorry, but that is really far down the road if ever. It's good to get it out and organized though.

[Coconut]

Yeah, I did somethings right, even if they weren't recognized, I.e. Spending 6 hours working on sprinklers while W sat on couch checking Facebook and then getting upset that I didn't want to go to a friends outing because I was tired from all the work... My biggest problem was that I hadn't read the. 5 love languages, if I had done that before, I believe our issues wouldn't be issues, but none the less, I wonder how to speed up whatever outcome is coming!

[sandi2]

Maybe one of the most confusing things in life is trying to understand the opposite sex. You had sex maybe twice a year.......yet you thought everything was okay in the MR? You say she is beautiful, and she even tried to get your attention, and ecourage you to perk up. You said she wanted intimacy, but you were depressed and chose to withdraw from what was important to her and for the MR to thrive. HOWEVER, one time..........just one time you felt she ignored you, the tables were turned.

You blame her for not telling you how she felt when you were tuning her out. Seriously? You had no clue it would hurt her? It's her fault that you basically ignored her emotional needs? You whine to her about having to go to bed alone, and suddenly, your depression is gone and you need intimacy!! Wow, what a cure!

So........you are thinking if there is an OM, you'll just drop her a$$ and get one who can have kids............in fact, you've already had a little look...haven't you?

Do I sound as if I am not very sensitive to your situation? Do you feel I am not being fair? I am more sensitive to your situation than you could imagine. If she is not in an EA, she is probably a breath away.

A woman's desire is like a flower. Remove light & water, and her desire dies.

Listen, you've had a wake-up of sorts, and now you want her to feel the same as you. She doesn't. Do you get it? She was trying to be kind and not straight out tell you that she has no attraction for you, b/c even the WW/WAW's know the male ego can't handle it. Your begging and whining has not helped in that department. You need to stop with the emotional pressurizing and get your act together. Look in the mirror and point a finger back at you whenever you want to complain that you aren't getting enough physical affection from her.

This is not going to be fixed overnight. Find the man you need to become.

[Ralph88]

Have you become the best coconut you can be? Have you really focused on yourself and made changes for yourself that are now long lasting and here to stay? Have you lovingly dropped the rope and detached so that your S can do what she needs to do to come to whatever her conclusion brings her to? Have you made yourself a man that only a fool would leave? I know I'm still not there yet, and am not ready for us to R or D yet.

[Wonka]

Coconut,

Here I am...like it or not! Ha. I see that Sandi has swung by here and gave you her insights into your sitch. Boy, she's bang on in her assessment and I am in agreement with her.

Before I delve further in the post, I do want to say a few things to draw your attention in regard to DBing:

-There are ZERO magic bullets
-There are ZERO quick fixes
-It is a hard, long, and rough slogging
-It requires a MINIMUM of 1 year in DBing to truly understand the basic tenets of DBing
-It is the BEST self-improvement program ever...it is for YOU only.
-It is not a ploy or tactic to win W back...no...nope.

Have you ever seen a battleship turn while out in the ocean (or a video of it)? It is done millimeter by millimeter basis. Likewise with DBing. Your M didn't take a nosedive overnight nor can it be restored overnight. Over time the M broke down due to a number of factors which you've outlined in your first post and it will take as equally long as it takes to get the M back on track.

Now let's get the nitty gritty of your sitch and the practical tools to get yourself and the M back on track.

By your own admission, you disengaged from the M for long periods of time and you filled your time with activities that did not involve W. She must have built up a wall to protect herself because of the rejection she experienced over and over is too painful for her. She is in pain and is not available to take CARE of you or your pain. You ask, "what should I be doing?"

Glad you asked and you've come to the right place for guidance. We will NEVER steer you wrong if you will listen to the vets' advice/guidance for the general DB principles really do work. Now, the MOST important advice we can give you right now is this: You MUST be a very, very patient man for there will ups and downs throughout the journey in the next several months (not next few days, next few weeks, next few months....MULTIPLE MONTHS)..aka the infamous DB Rollercoaster.

From where I sit, there is tremendous hope in your sitch for you and W do genuinely love and care about one another. The problem is the emotional disconnect between the pair of you. W is off doing her firefighting work and you are withdrawn in self-righteousness.

In order to restore the M, you MUST focus on yourself first. Learn to like and love yourself. When that cup is full, then the next step is to focus on the friendship aspect. The marital aspect comes later.

I sense and believe that you want to stay married. Walking on this path will require you to conduct yourself with honor, respect, dignity and integrity. How you treat yourself is reflected on the outside as well. As Sandi points out, don't go out chasing women for it is not how married people behave nor should at all. IT is a very, very slippery slope. You don't want to slide down that slope.

Get your head screwed on tight and really focus on DBing.

In the next post, we will examine the nuts and bolts of DBing as I don't want this post to be a long-winded one as it would cause you to lose focus.

[Wonka]

Continued.....

Coconut, I want to say that writing that letter was a lovely thought and done with good intentions. We all DO NOT recommend DBers send out letters to the WAS for it is a form of pursuing and pressure. Letter writing can be incredibly cathartic for some LBS. Some LBS write letters, put them away, tear them up, or burn them. Again, I emphasize here for you not to send any letters to W.

Newbies struggle to grasp this concept: Words are cheap. Actions are gold. This is where we talk a lot about GAL (Get
A Life) and 180s (change patterns, actions, behaviors or issues). You are a 1 day old babe and have a long way to learn about DBing and applying the principles effectively. Use your ears more than your mouth. What I mean by this is listen and absorb what people post in the forums. Poke around, visit other threads, and post there to get more traffic here. This is a very supportive and reciprocal community. Don't be shy...go on a few threads that resonates with you and just say "hi, i am here to support you." That's fine as many newbies are tentative and lack confidence to post advice. We all learn a lot by posting comments and advice to other DBers.

The links that Cadet rolled out in his welcome post are a good place for you to start. Two in particular are crucial for you to really absorb and let them sink into your mind/cells/DNA: Sandi's Rules and Validation Cheat Sheet. These two are key to successful DBing.

Here's a step by step in DBing for you at this stage in your particular sitch:

-Back the f*ck off from W
-Be a friend to W...recapture that friendship
-Be supportive of W in her firefighting field
-You need to be more sensitive to some timing aspects
-Remember that you and W are a team (not talking about sexual/emotional intimacy here)

Examples:

I would try and initiate intimacy (because that’s what she wanted, right?) and she would stop me and give some excuse, so I would try again the next day and next, rinse and repeat. When asked why we couldn’t be intimate the first answer was I didn’t say that, then it became all these changes are too much, I don’t know how to handle all of this, and now it’s because it’s been so long I just don’t desire physical intimacy right now.

The bold section is an "assumption" on your part. That can be a bad thing in a marriage especially when communication has been problematic for the pair of you. Do you now see this?

Rinse and repeat. Do you now see why that wasn't working at all? As the DR book says, experiment and monitor results. Whatever you're doing ins't working and then you blame W. Maybe certain approaches may not work for W. This is where the 5 Love Languages (5LL) by Gary Chapman is really helpful in DBing for it aligns with DR very well.

Each person has a receiving and giving LLs. I feel filled up when I receive PT/QT (Physical Touch/Quality Time) and I give PT/AOS as a way of expressing my love/affection. What about yours? What about W's?

• She is in a great place personally, meeting goals (becoming a firefighter), in great shape, hanging out with new and old friends; I’m trying to find myself, exercising, working out, but I’ve lost contact with my own friends over the last few years when I was depressed and never wanted to do anything. Basically she is in a great place, confident, and I’m insecure and find myself being clingy to her to reassure me.

How wonderful is it to read that W seems to be really involved in activities that take her to different, new places and meeting new people. Why would you feel insecure about this aspect of W? What is the real root of your insecurity??
Your W is not responsible for your happiness. You are. YES...you are. It is incredibly unfair to place that burden on W. Wow. Take care of your own happiness and the rest will fall into place. How one can accomplish this is by engaging in hobbies and activities that give them joy. For me, it's golfing and doing artwork (just took up watercolor).

She starting going out with her fireclass or people from the firestation as a group to local bar/restaurant, about once every two weeks, stays out to about 1:30am (this caused me to be insecure and start distrusting her, I had convinced myself that she was interested physically or mentally to someone else, and in our 8 year marriage she had never gone out with anyone but close friends I know well). She has opened up to me about who goes and what they do, and I feel better about it now, and trust that she won’t cheat, but it still hurt me when she goes out without me, since I tried for a week to go on a date with her and she had to cancel (I’ve given up trying and she hasn’t asked me out). Also, on the night we were supposed to go out, she had to take a fire test online, so while she was studying and taking the test, I was on the couch and fell asleep. When she finished, she saw that I was asleep and went to a local bar for about 30 minutes to watch a UFC fight by herself before she had to go pick our son up from a party. I happened to wake up and was confused when she wasn’t home, I did find my iphone and found out she was at the local bar, and when she didn’t tell me after getting back, I called her out on it. She later told me it really upset her that I did the find my iphone thing.

Have you ever thought about joining her? Say, 'hey, I would love to go with you to meet with your fabulous friends.' This will show W that you are interested in her activities and being supportive of them. I don't get the sense that W is involved with OM. I could be wrong, but I am rarely wrong when it comes to assessing situations here in DB.

• Snuggling is ok, but she said yesterday my constant hugging and touching is too much, so yesterday I decided I would back away from everything but snuggling (I feel like we need to keep some physical contact to be healthy)

I see clashing perspectives here. Your W communicated with you that constant hugging and touching is too much for her. What has changed here? What prompted you to give her "constant" hugs and touching? I can tell you that, for me personally, I cannot stand too much hugs and touching for it is really smothering to me. I think you need to find a balance here.

To restore the friendship, you would need to take very small steps.

-Maybe you can cook dinner for two at home say 1 a week or every other week. This will allow for you and W to connect. Talk about the day, issues at work, etc. This is what I mean by being a team

-HUMOR. I cannot emphasize this enough. Humor is a really bonding agent in bringing people together. Telling jokes, funny anecdotes, self-depreciating comments are some of the fun ways to lighten the mood

-Just be a friend. Don't make any "demands" like going to bed. A casual comment would be something like this: "W, I am tried and am off to bed. I like it when you join me in going to bed because I like having my best friend with me when I fall asleep." Light and breezy. See? Use this very, very sparingly.

-Forget intimacy. Do very light touches. Touch on the forearm for 10 seconds. Touch her shoulder for 5 seconds on a different day. Non-sexual touches. No pressure, no expectations.

Do you think you can handle these steps for now?

Chin up...you'll be just fine with a bunch of good DBers coming by your thread.

[Wonka]

I want to leave you with this final thought from Stormchaser who successfully busted a D and is now piecing with his W:

Laying in bed one night, my W said to me that she thought my going to the gym, therapy, etc, was purely a way of me trying to win her back. She also said that when she saw me continuing to do things to improve myself is when she truly began to believe I was changing for myself, not because of HER. I never said to her, "hey, look, I'm in therapy now like you wanted, I'm going to the gym now like you wanted, I'm cleaning the house like you wanted..." Because that's not what they want, nor what they want to hear.

I said to her, "I didn't like the person I was before. I'm doing something to change that." Plus, I lost over 20 lbs and I can say with honest truth, I do NOT want to go back to that unhealthy lifestyle EVER again.

My wife likes the person I am now. My kids like the guy I am now. But most importantly, I like who I am now.

How perfect is that ^^^??! Way to go to Stormchaser for "getting it!"

[BluWave]

Hi Coconut,

I have read your sitch. I am sorry you are here. It's incredibly hard.

I was on the rollercoaster for years when my H turned my life upside down and I saw the darkest days of my life. He has been back over a year now and there is still so much work & growth to be done. Perhaps DB is a way of life--to be the best person YOU can be in hopes you will attract quality people to you, whether that is your W or someone else down the road.

But I am not going to pretend I am any vet or expert. So I'm going to say one thing here. You are lucky that Sandi & Wonka gave you the time of day! Pay attention and learn from them!!!

So keep on posting & reading and posting & reading. We are here for you, 2*4s, tough love, and all.
-Blu

[cubebot]

Coconut,

You have just been given some REAL words of wisdom by sandi and Wonka. read it, re-red it and then read it again. these words hit me and they weren't even about me. You are MILES ahead of me in your sitch. You can do this but you have to do it right. Patience, honesty with yourself, and endurance my friend.

[Coconut]

Sandi, thank you for that baseball bat hit to the head, although the facts are a little off I won't argue with that, because I believe if my wife would talk about how she FEELS that's exactly what she would say.... Thank you for taking your time to write it for me.

Wonka, I became insecure because in 8 years she has never gone out with people I don't know, and the first time she went she left around 6:30pm and said she was going to dinner with a group from station, but didn't get home until 1:30am. Thoughts of "sexy" firefighters danced in my head, and then her being at "dinner" till 1:30am was more than I could handle. Thank you for the advice you gave, I will make an honest attempt at backing off.

I have one question on detaching and giving space, should I stay in our bed and snuggle (which she seems to like), stay in bed on my side, or move to guest room?

Also, I did text her earlier in the day asking if we could talk about what she wants, that I didn't know if I fit in what she wants (oops, wish I hadn't done that). Should I tell her that although I asked, I don't need that talk but if she wants to talk we can?