Separating the Wheat from the Chaff

[HaWho]

Link to my last thread:


http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2669838&page=1


Well, 5 straight days of being ignored completely by h and lots and lots of angry body language which started from the moment I politely asked when he was going to clean up his pots. I say goodbye for the day or tell him I am taking S to x place and he doesn't answer me; that sort of thing. So, seems he's a 13 year old girl?!?

Sometimes he is like an angry teenage boy but sometimes he's more of the Queen Bee mean girl variety. For a guy who is petrified of aging he sure does waste a lot of time on silly, silly things.

In my own depression I remember having and showing that same petty anger towards him. I am trying so hard to be compassionate.

There are some good things out of this. I have not made any attempts to go in and smooth it all over. In the past, I would have done so to ease the tension. And also, it didn't all get to me. I am very proud that I remained cordial and polite throughout even as he acted like a pre-teen. At the start of all this MLC mess, I let myself be dragged down into the tit-for-tat nonsense. And I hated that I had become that person. I am so glad I have broken myself of that habit.

Last night, from downstairs, he asked S10 to come down and say goodnight. Normally h is just off on his own in that room. So S10 said: "why?!?" That was sad. H told him he was leaving early before they woke up. He said no goodbye to me.

In the morning I hear the shower super early like in the hardcore replay days. When he is out of the stinky bathroom I pop in by the dorm room and say: "just want to say bye." He is very cold, lots of angry body language. I ask if he is still going to x place (a place he vowed he never would go.) He says yes and then adds one more city, a party beachy area (surprise, surprise.) It's hard not to imagine him out there and all that comes with it.

I ask: "hey, why are you going to x?" He says to try something new. And I say: "so funny. You always vowed you'd never go there." And he mutters: "what's the point?" (Very annoyed.) I say: "2 years ago my cousin invited us there to her property and you said no, that you would never go there." And then I say: "you really are so different from who you were." Mostly, this last comment slips out and is more to myself than him. But he definitely heard it. I say "you can't even stand the food." And he mutters something else that I don't hear. I say: "have a safe trip and have fun." I walk away. He despises the food, the climate, everything. I so want to say: "you can run but you can't hide." But I zip it.

And with that he is gone. Now onto a few MLC free days . . .

[ciluzen]

Enjoy your MLC free days, HaWho! You really deserve a break.

Funny how our MLc H's will suddenly do things they would never do or go places they would never go before. My H made me promise to never put celery into anything (its suddenly ok, now) and couldn't stand buffets (he likes them, now).

I guess they are willing to try all sorts of things to try to get happy; even to the extreme of 180ing the things they despised. Just like they 180 the things they once loved. Change=happiness?

[job]

Breathe! You've got a couple of a free days to just enjoy yourself and your home w/o the man child being under foot! It's so sad that they end up doing the things that they vowed that they would never dream of doing as adults.

[bttrfly]

enjoy the break ... you've more than earned it!!!

[mleigh4]

Cheers to you! I am sorry he was being such a poop....off you go H!

I hope you enjoy this time. Use it to regroup and recoup. Do you have anything planned or are you just going to enjoy a happy peaceful home? When does he get back?

[HaWho]

Hi all - thanks so much for the posts!

My first MLC free day was a pretty good one! After work the kids and I watched Fed Up. It scared S12 and he is now taking nutrition much more seriously, as is s10.

We laughed a lot and there was an ease that hasn't been there in quite some time. I did feel the release of tension. We walked the dog after dinner and discussed the movie. We joked a lot and there was a lightness. Quiet as h is, he brings a heaviness with him.

MLC still found me. I guess h texted S12 when he landed. And later he called to talk to the boys. That is progress as this time last year when he went away with his Viagra friend he barely called and when he did, it was a rubber stamp conversation. He couldn't wait to get off.

I was in the room fixing myself some tea and h was on speaker phone. He started to explain how he could see s12's text but wasn't able to send any back and wasn't able to call. So he was calling from the lobby. I grabbed my tea and headed upstairs. Sounded like he was over explaining and I didn't want to think about it. He is probably at spring break in Daytona Beach.

I was upstairs reading when I heard S12 say: "here, I'll let you talk to mom." Ugh that's awkward as when he is in the same room he ignores me so why are we talking when he is in a foreign country? We spoke very briefly and it was curt and to the point. I just asked him how he was and not much else. I just don't really want to engage too much in his various MLC vacations. It's all so pathetic. He sounded vibrant and alive and I get the sense he thinks this running further is what's missing in his life.

I am binge watching The Jinx. Wow, it's fascinating! I watched Making a Murderer a while back and it's interesting to see two stories on opposite ends of the criminal justice system.

H returns Sunday so it will be a whole MLC free weekend.

[Ginger1]

As I get older, I am digger a lot deeper. And what I find is scary sometimes. But I'm doing it and it feels good to become real with yourself. However, I can see how people want to run from that inner work, it's really scary.

The MLC'er I was dating has been running for so long. From R to R when it comes time to actually do the inner work and things become real. Others, like your H run to vacations, material things, and experiences they feel they might have missed out on. Because they want to run from dealing with themselves.

We can only hope one day they quit running and deal with the crappy stuff inside, because it only brings out the good stuff in the end.

Enjoy the lightness in your home. maybe this will just keep going and will become a little contagious when he gets back.

[Esame]

I agree with this ^^^^, my MLC'er has also turned to vacations / time away from us. The first time he actually lied and claimed he was on a work trip. Now I encourage him to go, it is easier this way/

Enjoy the weekend!

[2Times2Many]

HaWho ... I'm going to echo the other's. Some of them get all wrapped up with the things they never did. And often times, it seems like it's stuff you would do in your late teens or 20's maybe. For my H it's been scuba trips, mountain biking, weekly runs with his group that are really nothing more than keg parties.

And ciluzen, for my guy, it was fresh tomatoes. He didn't even want them on salads. Now he loves fresh tomatoes. Go figure.

HW, I wouldn't believe for a minute your h is having a grand, happy time wherever he is. I suspect the guilt and remorse about doing what he's doing is bubbling up and putting a bit of a damper on the fun. But, he will put on the mask and make you think he's having the time of his life.

In fact, that guilt may have started eating at him before he left and led to his anger with you. Just a thought.

I'm glad you and the kids are enjoying some non-stressful days. You all deserve a break.

[HaWho]

Thanks Ginger, Esame and 2x2Many. You guys are great!

2X - you may be right. I think he was picking fights to justify his MLC vacation. He was gunning for it. Just like pre-BD.

Anyway, it's been a good 2 days. H called s12 last night and s had him on speaker phone. I walked out and went upstairs but did catch him saying that the food was awful and he had nothing to eat. The food is spicy there and he hates spice.

I just rolled my eyes and trekked forward. This is of course one of the last things I said to him before he left: "you can't even stand the food." Maybe the night he returns I will order in that kind of food. Ha ha, wouldn't THAT be a hoot! I'll bat my eyes and say: "I just wanted to keep the vacation going for you."

Yesterday, I went over all the bank accounts and pored over all of h's financial activities. Seems he goes though jags of spending, but nothing absolutely nuts.

Mostly just noticing the differences from this time last year when he went on his MLC vacation. He was dim with the kids, NC with me and this year he is still NC with me but talking to the kids each night. Last night he chatted up a storm w/s12. I wasn't in the room but they talked for 15 or so minutes.

And I care much less. I worried that in the evenings I would think more about all that he was doing. But I realize I am right where I want to be! Meanwhile he is just running from himself. I feel sad that he went on vacation without his kids. So sad he does not care to share the experience with them and that the kids missed out. But, something tells me it's probably a style cramper to go clubbing with 2 kids in tow.

Today I worked and played tennis. S12 has a game tonight so I am looking forward to that.

Continuing to enjoy the drama free moments--SO many of them!!!

[BrightFuture]

HaWho, I’ve been reading along… All I can say, I admire your patience and sense of humor. I bet it feel great to have the MLC free house for a few days. And even then, he manages to remind you about himself, LOL. I laughed about the “Queen Bee mean girl variety”! How funny, and how sad at the same time…

I would totally order the spicy food when he returns! And then cook something he likes at the same time… And give him a choice… I bet I know what he would choose… Enjoy your weekend, HaWho!

[job]

They tend to run from themselves and all that represents a stable life. They want change, they want to turn the clock back to a time when they "think" that they missed something in life and also, want to go back and revisit those so called happy times in their lives as children. Unfortunately, we can't turn the clock back, we all grow old, the world has changed and those simple times are no more, we have responsibilities, friends and parents pass on and life continues to move forward.

Yes, I do think your h was picking a fight w/you to justify him going on this trip. I think he really wasn't too keen on going, but in order to push himself out the door, he needed to justify why he was going. Some of them talk a good game and wanting to do things, but don't have the strength or "guts" to do it until they are angry at us. Maybe he wanted you to tell him not to go...but again, we can't read their minds.

As for him enjoying himself...NOT! If he's complaining about he food, then I'm sure there are other things he doesn't like too. Him yapping to your sons about the place is just bragging and his attempts to prove that he's having a blast. Poor man, he just doesn't get it yet.

I'm glad you aren't sitting around in the evening wondering about what he's doing. You are right where you need to be at this moment...taking care of yourself and your sons. Living and loving life to the fullest. Enjoy your free moments for they will end soon.

[HaWho]

Hi Bright - I laughed out loud at your post. Thanks for the humor.

Job - Thank you for the refresher and all the words of wisdom. It all makes sense as to why he was picking fights for the last week over the stupidest things.

The time away from this whole thing has made me see how insane this all is. I have felt myself let another piece of him go. The guy went on vacation without his family!!! The thing is, if traveling always gives him a quick fix/high and there are so many places to travel I just wonder how he is going to outgrow all this?

Meanwhile, I can't help but think that there would be men out there who would cherish me. I am very patient. I always have been. It always takes me some time to make a decision but when I do, I don't really look back. My only strategy here is to keep being patient and giving time but at some point something needs to give. I can't wait my whole life and I don't see what will make him have an epiphany.

Yesterday I was thinking, if we split, I knew I would not be curious about him. This is how I was with all past boyfriends and he is now in that same category. Things are so much more complicated with children involved.

H returns sometime tonight. He of course did not say when. If I were him I too would wait until the very end of the night. I would not want to have to make eye contact either.

Tonight I am taking the boys out to dinner and then we will take the dog out for a beach walk. We are bringing paddles and we'll play Smashball. The days went so fast.

[HaWho]

H returned and all my anger surfaced. Boys and I came home and he was in the dorm room. Boys hugged him and I popped in and said hi, asked how his vacation was, etc. Then I went to to the kitchen.

He brought the boys back several gifts. One was a chess set. S12 asked to play with h. H was too tired. Surprise, surprise. So I played with him. H talked a lot about his trip. I just zoned out. From the sounds of it he went and pretended he was 20 again.

Job, he REALLY is going and doing everything he thinks he missed. It's just textbook MLC. With vibrant eyes he said it was all "awesome." I think he can run like this forever; 'til he's in a wheelchair. And even then he'll probably try to roll himself off a cliff to see if he can fly by flapping his arms.

I was doing an okay job until he sat down at 8PM (after playing Peter Pan for 5 days) and asked the kids if they had finished their homework! My look said it all. I am so tired of this fake "I am a responsible dad" routine. First of all, S10 doesn't have homework yet, which h would know if his spacecraft were here long enough. As for s12, like s12 left his homework 'til now? So stupid.

H is staring at me trying to figure out why I am mad. I wish he wouldn't bother pretending; like I am stupid enough to think he's got his act together because he asks the question to which he already knows the answer. A d he KNOWS The work is done. And what?!? If son hadn't finished his homework he would plunk himself down, roll up his sleeves and help? No! It would be the same result . . . off to the dorm room!

I get up to walk the dog. H says, oh I'll walk him (like he's just this super guy). And with a bite I say "no you rest." He says (angry) "no YOU rest." I tell him if he has the energy he should play chess with the kids. It's so annoying he has the energy to walk the dog but not play chess. Priorities, priorities.

Then he says "I'll do what I want." And I say "clearly." And he says "yeah well you're going to New York." I am almost out the door with the dog and I say "yeah, with my SISTERS."

Really?!? Going to NYC with my sisters is equivalent to this? And of course after being with the kids for all of 15 minutes he is back in the dorm room with the door closed.

I get a big fat F today. I know guys. But I don't care. What a louse. I think one of the things that set me off was the chess set. S12 was at a friend's house today and the boy's father played several games of chess with them. I couldn't help but think of my h running all around like an idiot while this boy's dad is an adult. One kid hits the dad lottery and the other gets a MLC loon.

I need to give myself a lobotomy to deal with this.

[Kyh]

Sorry about your evening, you can't always be superwoman (superman as my ic tells me in my case). I know those feelings all to well from when w was taking her trips. It all sounds so familiar. She too tried to justify it with saying how I got to travel and get to eat out all the time etc. But mine was for work; like i wanted to be gone or was having a good time, lol. She's cancelled her next one per her attorneys advice I think as it didn't fit her custody schedule. You may feel like your boys got the loon but they won the mom lottery! Hang in there.

[Esame]

I think you are doing a great job, but sometimes we need to let our anger out. I know it is not ideal, but we are only human.

I hope things are better tonight.

[Irish M]

I think he can run like this forever; 'til he's in a wheelchair. And even then he'll probably try to roll himself off a cliff to see if he can fly by flapping his arms.

hi HaWho
Made me laugh reading this. It's amazing the energy they use trying to find their Hapiness or the feeling of being alive . It's ashame they can't use that to work on themselves and fix their mess.

I get up to walk the dog. H says, oh I'll walk him (like he's just this super guy). And with a bite I say "no you rest." He says (angry) "no YOU rest." I tell him if he has the energy he should play chess with the kids. It's so annoying he has the energy to walk the dog but not play chess. Priorities

Like a teen not agreeing on a parents decision. As if he needs to have the last word and make it his decision. Their priorities are only to themselves. Maybe next time say sure and offer your S to go with him.

I so admire you and other LBS with their MLC'r at home. The strength and patience to see this person you once knew act out it the most ridiculous way.

I truly think you have a handle on this and you are very strong.
I wouldn't give you an F ... more like a B+

Irish :-)

[Ginger1]

You get an A in my book.

You are human, his behavior is that of a rude child, and when a child behaves rudely, we let them know, we don't ignore it. You are expected to sit there with your mouth shut and without emotion and reaction. it's just not realistic.

My daughter didn't hit the dad jackpot either. It saddens me often. My friends have such involved loving husbands as fathers. And my daughter gets a douche who is addicted to some stupid game on his I pad and just can't handle more than his half a weeknight because "it's hard living in another town". (he everyother weekend, but godfrobid he throws in an extra weeknight once in a blue moon).

Sorry, I vented a little on your thread. But I hear you on the kid thing.

[Ginger1]

of course I can't edit. " you are NOT expected to sit there with your mouth shut and without emotion and reaction."

[HaWho]

Oh gosh and it just gets even more stupid. Job I could use your input here.

He texts me that I interject myself into his interactions with the boys. Like when I decided to come to the lemonade stand with s10. (S10 invited me and told h he didn't need to come!). He says that everytime he talks to s10 I wedge myself into the conversation or call him away?!? I don't call s away. That is ridiculous. But yes, if the conversation is relevant I do talk. This isn't the Taliban.

He says I poisoned his coming home yesterday. (This is true. I was fed up with the Boys Gone Wild routine.) I am thinking of giving a truth dart here. Something like: you always promised you would be so amazing when the kids were teenagers and here we are and you go on vacation all by yourself. You could have easily taken the boys and given them an amazing life experience.

Then he says maybe we should have two separate homes and split the kids and the dog 50/50. He says he is tired of his closet room. Then he says he has already spent 6 million dollars on my comfort and care?!? And he continues to do so despite the ingratitude.

Then he says he can't continue to live in a closet with my negative interjections. He wants his own independent time with them without my morgue-like comments?!? (I am sure this is his guilt talking. He must feel it when he is in my presence.)

If that can no longer happen then he says let's start the 50/50 spilt as he can't live in the closet with my negative comments.

He says despite the romantic dissolution he was hoping we could still do this for the kids. (I want to give a truth dart here as he ran around for the half the year but now he's Superdad.).

Here's the most hilarious part: he can't continue to live this way and yet he ends saying: you decide.

So stupid. I want to take my dart and stab him in the butt over and over.

The kids would not eat his food. When the dog vomits he refuses to clean it up (seriously). And if I go away, he sends the dog to doggy day care. No lie! He sneaks out at night occasionally. Now he wants to have them 50% of the time. And it's SOOO important to him he wants ME to decide.

How much can I say?

[Wonka]

Hiya, HW.

I follow your thread for I love your sense of humor and how you've handled the sitch magnificently.

Regarding H's recent comments, I would have responded:

"I'm sorry that you feel this way. This is your choice to set up your own dorm room that is a biohazard, refusing to clean up the dishes, pretending to be a Dad for 15 minutes each day, running off on vacations like a frat boy, and chasing some ethereal happiness like some Peter Pan while I hold the fort down and be the stable parent to the boys. Exactly what is it you would like for me to do? I have zero desire to be your mother. I am your wife. You are a father to two boys. You have shown zero responsibility around here and that's the CHOICE you made right there. We have never asked for this and we have done nothing wrong."

It's time that you speak up now and then instead of stuffing everything down ALLLL the time.

[Ginger1]

I echo Wonka. She's got a great response. And biy is she right, that it's time for you to speak up for yourself.

Back in the day of vet DB'ers, it wasn't always STFU all the time. A big part of DBing is to say what you got to say when it's appropriate. Not hold it all in. Honesty is OK.

He is giving you an ultimatum. Either you STFU and let him do his thing the way he wants and how he wants, or he will go. That's why he hasn't made the decision himself. Sure, he will stay if you do what he wants. But if you don't, then he'll go.

Personally, I think he needs to fall on his face because he ever moves past this. And he will fall on his face living on his own. You've taken care of all the responsibilities so far. If he had to take care of his own, he would be in for a real shocker.

[HaWho]

Wow GOOD stuff Wonka. You sure do write a pointed truth dart letter. I am going to give it the 24 hour rule and then I am ready to launch a reality check and stand up for myself.

And Ginger, I agree. He is giving me an ultimatum. He is telling me to STFU and be a Stepford Mother (not a Stepford wife) or he will walk out on me. I don't think he liked my judgment of his solo frat boy vacation. I think he wants me to live here, let him party, clean up and smile my way through it all. I think he wants me to believe I AM the lucky one here.

Oooooh . . . so scary that he'll move out!! Funniest part: my life will be WAAAY easier! Ginger, he will fall over after 1 week. And guess what? This weekend I had a taste of flying solo myself and it was all sugar!

And if I lose him I haven't lost ANYTHING at all as truly he is a TOTAL loser right now.

One of my BIGGEST regrets is that I did not immediately stand up for myself after he sent me that filthy letter. I lost a piece of myself that day. This is my chance to get that girl back.

Thing is, he has threatened like this before. In the letter he wrote that if I did not do x, y and z (all very superficial things) to let him know "immediately" so he could move forward with his other plans. He had told me his "eyes" were opened to other options.

The way he wrote "immediately" made it sound like he just had 20 women waiting to fawn over him; feed him grapes and clip his toes nails with their teeth. It took me some time to get my bearings; it was so mean, that letter. When I did finally stand up for myself, all bupkis! He did absolutely nothing.

But I learned that in MLC, he is an emotional terrorist. He doesn't spew too much and yell. But he is extremely manipulative. This is EXACTLY the way his mother got him to do stuff as a kid. And that's where he learned it folks.

This whole "stay out of my conversations" seems to be a common theme. H played chess with s10 and when S12 came to comment on the game h snapped "mind your own business. You don't get that concept!" Which is exactly what he is saying to me: let me do what I want, when I want, how I want with no consequences. Like a spoiled teenager who should have phone taken away and lose driving privelages.

And I am happy to have the documentation between us. He is telling I am bad because I went s10's lemonade stand and I send back a letter detailing that he is live-in Disney dad.

[job]

HaWho,
I think what Wonka posted is spot on and perfect. Put the ball back in his court. He made the choice to live in a room and make it his dorm room, smelly and whatever else is growing in there. No one told him to do that. If he wants to leave, let him make that decision for himself...don't help him out the door. He is acting like a spoiled brat who wants mom to blow her top and tell him to leave. It sounds like he's been thinking about the split and two households for a while. So, if he wants that, he needs to decide when it will happen. If he can't take the heat in the kitchen, then he'll have to leave...but Wonka's comments are exactly what he needs to hear. I wouldn't be surprised if he says he's moving out. If he says it, I would be sorely tempted to say "whatever" and go on about your business.

I really would love to wring his neck and then knock some sense into him. He doesn't realize what he has at home...stupid fool.

[Esame]

WaWho that sounds like a random turn of events, sorry he must be totally insane.

I'm not sure what he is asking you to decide, could you clarify? Is it a "stay out f his conversations / interactions with the kids OR I'm leaving and demanding 50/50 split?" Sorry I just don't see the relevance of the question or how it will help the situation. If you are forced to stay out of their discussions it will mean it is another aspect of YOUR life that he screws up.

Maybe you should bring to his attention that he could have the kids' undivided attention if he planned things with them and spent even a few hours a week with them.

Good luck honey, I don't envy you at all.

[2Times2Many]

I'm not sure it's an ultimatum as much as a threat designed to "scare" you into doing/behaving the way he wants.

My h pulls that crap all the time .... I'm going to do this or that or whatever, which is really a veiled threat designed to regain control because he thinks I'm afraid of losing him. It looks to me like your h thinks the same about you.

I think the best way to deal with that kind of stuff is to just reply, "Well, I don't see anyone standing in your way." It sure takes the wind out of my h's sails and as Job said, it puts the ball back in his court.

HW, don't beat yourself up because you didn't stand up for yourself "immediately." I think it's better to digest the sitch and come up with a calm, reasoned response that was not in the heat of the moment.

Something tells me you aren't the kind of girl to fly off the handle but more the kind that gives serious thought to how to handle things before you take action.

[job]

2Times is correct...they do use "scare tactics" to get us to do what they want. Your h could very well be bluffing and yes, sometimes, they threaten moving out, divorce, etc. It's a control tactic and once they get what they want, they calm down and go about their merry way. If he wants to leave, he can leave...that's his choice, but don't make it for him.

Let's face it, the man is unhappy w/his life and he just doesn't have a clue as to how to escape the dorm room w/o your help. LOL!

Sometimes we have to step back and digest what they've said and/or done before responding/reacting to what they want.

Hang in there!

[bttrfly]

Hi Sweetie,
I thought some conflict was bound to happen when he returned. You and the boys have had a taste of what life could be like without MLCmadness2016, and H's ... well, he's probably come back to his dormroom and begun to realize it's at best smelly.

Think long and hard about what YOU want, then take the steps necessary to make that your reality.

Does this make sense to you?

Sending you hugs. You have put up with so much with such grace and humor. I marvel at your patience and fortitude. You are correct, you do not need to be bullied.

xoxoxo

[HaWho]

Thanks all. I am still digesting. I talked to my DB coach last night and I'll give you her feedback.

Esame - yes, he says I need to butt out or he wants to split the kids 50/50. My gut tells me that he has realized the kids are not that bonded to him, he's mad about it and he's blaming it on me. He can't see or admit it's him.

I think what happened with the lemonade stand hurt him deeply and that too he blames on me. He had this day planned with s10 and when s10 invited me h got REALLY mad. He said he would bow out and I think he expected S10 to back out on me and go with him. But s10 told him he could go with s12 while I would take him to the lemonade stand. That must've hurt. But he shouldn't have put the kid in that spot. It was very immature and there's that Queen Bee mean girl thing he does.

H has been quite the h€llcat since returning. Something set him off. Lots and lots of anger coming to the surface.

S12 had a late start school day yesterday. On these days he and I usually grab a drink at a cafe and hang out before I go to work and he goes to school. We both look forward to it.

Here's another example of how hard h's trying and failing with the kids. He asked to take S12 out for breakfast on the late start day. S12 graciously said no, I was taking him. I stayed silent. He thinks I butt in and "steal" them away. H then tried other bribing, fun tactics. "We can go get a hot drink before school." S12 says he will shower and then I will take him. I stay silent so he can see it's not me. He is trying to do the exact thing he accuses me of! S12 says we already have plans and h tries to bulldoze his way through. Perhaps I should have said: "would you like to join us?" I may do this next time. Did not think of it yesterday plus he is so mad at me for everything.

He sent me a really angry text yesterday, too. Listen to what an insecure teenager he is. S12 is a very good chess player. He can beat decent adult players and has the gift of setting moves well in advance. He beat his friend's dad and the guy is pretty good. I stink! I capture his queen and then 10 moves later accidentally lose my own to a pawn. It takes so much concentration to protect all those pieces!! Argh.

So we come home yesterday and S12 says to his dad that he wants to play chess with him. H says they don't have a lot of time. I tousle s12's hair and say it shouldn't take long (as he beats people fast and h is not very good either).

Well, he sends me this text that I insulted his intelligence and that he had to prove himself by beating son to disprove me when he wanted to be kind to s12 in the game. Funny thing is: he sort of cheated to win! No lie!! S10 had a pawn make it to the end, asked for his queen back and h took a turn before letting S10 finish his move with that queen (who had checkmate). How old is he there!!!

Job, I see that he is at that age where I can't do anything right and he is sensitive about EVRRYTHING. I let it sit and then imagined him as my son not my h. Then I said: "I am sorry for the joke. It was meant to spur friendly rivalry as he's beating people very quickly. He sure beat me quick." He did not respond. But when he came home he did a chore (right in front of me and VERY obviously) that I always do and he has not done in years. I thanked him.

So, the DB coach said to let his mesage sit. And not to react to it. She suggested addressing his issues directly and individually and not yet bringing up my own yet as I would just be reacting to him. It would turn into tit-for-tat. I know this is different advice from what's been given. Mulling it all over. The time will come where such a conversation needs to take place, but is it now in reaction to him?

Thing is: I think I should have stayed quiet in the lemonade stand situation as I did with the late start. He is looking to blame someone for his cruddy relationship with the kids and I have a bull's eye on my forehead. If I had stayed silent he would have seen I am not manipulating things. They just aren't that bonded to him. If I isolated myself out of it he would have to see it's not me. And it can't be both kids. That leaves one person.

[HaWho]

By the way, one other reason to focus on his issues with me interfering in his relationship with the kids is that this is the issue at hand. That's where he is focusing right now. And he seems to be obsessed by it. He can't figure it out.

It is in everyone's best interest if he fixes his relationship with these kids. I am very secure in my bond with my kids. I have been there for them their whole lives. He has been MIA for 2 years. I think it is good for him to fix it. Right now he thinks it's broken because of me. The only way to show him the truth is to zip it and let him see the truth unfold.

The lemonade stand would have unfolded he same way as the late start day. S12 didn't want to go with h. I received no wrath on the late start day as I let them work it out and yet tons for the lemonade situation. Therein lies the solution.

[job]

Your h is very envious of the kids. He wants them to look up to him and be his best buds, but he's late to the game and let's face it, the kids know that there is something off w/him.

As for the game of Chess...he just had to make a point even if it meant cheating a bit. Very childish.

I'm now thinking that if you are seeing all of this anger, he could have been simmering for a while and now that he's had a taste of a vacation and a clean room, he's angry about all of it and won't look at himself in the mirror and admit that he had choices and he made the wrong ones.

I would continue to do what works for you. He's going to be an angry man/teen for a while. Let him stew in his pot of juices. You can't forge the bond between father and sons...they have to do that.

Take care.

[mleigh4]

Hi. I have been keeping up and wish I had more time to talk but I have to get to work. Sorry he came back in such a bad mood, vacation is supposed to do the opposite, unless you have to face the mess you created when coming back home!

The father son bond......as you know my H blames me for any and all issue s with S. After 3 years, him having time alone with S, away from me, I am still the enemy and reason S does not feel close with him. As you know, his excuses are ridiculous. IDK, I don't think it will change until they can finally accept it is of their own doing. The mystery remains how long that will take.

Shrug off his dumb accusations, it's him not you.

[Irish M]

Hi HaWho

Job is right, your H wants to be his best bud. My STBXW did the same to my Daughters. They saw it and wanted nothing to do with her strange behaviour. She even wanted them to practice twerking together. My Daughters don't twerk lol.

Mleigh said something that I too was thinking. Him coming back all sour and upset. He probably had a terrible time away. Felt guilty and shameful.
Of course it's all your fault in his MLC mind. Coming back from a vacation you are supposed to be relaxed, expression of happiness because you enjoyed yourself.

Stay strong , you seem like you are really grasping his thinking. The more he sees that it's not you hopefully he'll accept its him and try to fix it.

Irish

[bttrfly]

woke up thinking about you Ha ... hope you are doing well sending hugs xoxoxo

[Esame]

it sounds like your boys are already more mature than him HaWho! I hope your H wakes up to the fact that they can see straight through him and his dodgy behaviour.

Don't dwell on the "lemonade stand incident", I'm sure he would find something else to blame you for anyway...

[melweb]

HW--I feel so much for you right now. I get teary eyed just reading your posts. I am unsure how you have managed for as long as you have. I am only 6 months into this and I am physically and mentally exhausted already.

Maybe him moving out is the best thing for BOTH of you. As much I don't want my H to do that, it really may be the thing that needs to happen. (Whether it causes him to "wake up," or thrusts him further into OW, I cannot say.) Sometimes you have to be apart, to know what you have together. And maybe that is wishful thinking, given that MLC has severely clouded all his rationale, but you cannot go on in the current state. Its unhealthy for mind and body.

[HaWho]

Hi all - thanks so much for the kind words.

I have taken some time and thought all about things the last few days. I have looked inward and have to admit that I showed thinly veiled anger toward h when he returned. Really, I did not handle it the way that I wanted. My body language was angry and I was cold. Of course I have every right to be frustrated and angry but I am in a lose/lose situation as I am not dealing with a currently irrational person.

In the end, I decided to respond to him very calmly. This is the first time he has raised any issues with me and I wanted to make it super safe for him to do so. I do believe there will be a time and place for me to address all his behavior but not in response to a conversation he raises about something unrelated. I just felt like I would be saying "you have problems with me? Oh yeah, well, here's the problems I have with you..."

Wonka, please don't think your advice is in vain as I know this exact conversation needs to be had at some point.

In the end, I was quick and very light. I validated my interference in the lemonade stand. I told him his relationship with the boys is important for all involved. I thanked him for communicating with me.

This was a huge 180 for me. In the past I would have wanted to score my own points which would have grown into a tit-for-tat. But I stopped and listened to him just like I would my pre-teen.

He hasn't responded. I don't think he will. I am sure he was shocked by my response.

The day I sent it, later that day, I saw a huge 180 in him, too. I was in the middle of a task when he left to take s10 to practice. He then came home after drop off and said let me help you with x. We worked together and I thanked him.

[job]

Bravo! Very well done! Maybe now things will settle down again and hopefully he'll start to reach out more to assist you around the home. It's hard to juggle life, but more so when you have a MLCer living at home. You never know which way their emotional state will go. You handled it perfectly.

Keep up the good work!

[job]

HaWho,

Would you please take a minute or two and visit LED22's thread? She may be getting into a situation very similar to yours, i.e., dorm room scenario. You have two sons and she has several daughters. She needs your sage advice on how you've coped w/your MLCer living at home.

Thanks!

[2Times2Many]

HW, I think you handled that well.

Bear with me a moment ... In my case, there were several employees who actually knew what was going on ... A ... before I did. (H made no real effort to be discreet when it came to them. I actually felt sorry they had to carry around the burden of that secret out of fear of losing their jobs.) Once the "fit hit the shan," my impression was that he was angry that their loyalty went to me and not him.

I'm just wondering if, even though the situation is different, your h is angry because he sees your boy's loyalty devoted more to you than him? Maybe he sees you as an obstacle to repairing his relationship with the boys? IDK. Just a thought.

In any case, I'm glad things have settled some.

[Sotto]

Yes, we have a mutual friend who bore the burden of knowing our R was 'over' while H was telling me he was 'confused.' She ended up telling H he had to tell me or she would as she wasn't willing to know this and I didn't. All a bit yukky at the time really.

Funny thing is I apologised to her that she bore that burden and H never has far as I'm aware. She doesn't keep in touch with H much, though their S's are friendly. She told me the H she thought she knew wouldn't have done that stuff.

I guess people just draw their own conclusions from all that has happened and there are consequences - good and bad - for relationships all around them and us.

Xx

[HaWho]

Hi 2x2Many - I think h is looking for a scapegoat on this situation of his relationship with the kids. Although he's lived here he hasn't been "here" in years. It seems he thinks things can be solved by a trip to the ice cream parlor. It's his issue and I will gladly stay out of it so he can face the music.

Well, remember how h bought a MLC roadster in the early days of all this? Then in the very dark days of spring he sold it?

Yesterday I am in my car in the driveway talking to a client. H pulls up in a new (used car) and is smiling like the cheshire cat. He stops the car right beside me so I can get a good, long look. (All I can imagine is spray painting: "this is my 2nd MLC car" on the side of it.)

When I am done I go in and ask if this is in addition to or instead of his current car. He is not sure. I know it's in addition. From the dorm room he sends me a text saying I can use it anytime and gives me a smiley face. Then he tells me the make and model of it with another smiley face. I text back, "great, tomorrow I will take the dog to the beach in it." Ha ha. H keeps his cars as clean as an operating room. Remember, three days ago he wanted to split everything 50/50 and came at me like a cobra.

Lately when I think of him, I picture a 2 year old on the floor kicking and screaming and rolling himself into things to get attention. I just see myself making sure there are no sharp objects around and then stepping over him.

Later at dinner, we all joke about the car. H is meticulous about his cars. The kids joke they will eat in it as there are trays in the back seat. H says, yeah, wishful thinking. S10 asks then why are there trays? I say: "so you can better pretend you can eat in the car. What are you going to pretend to eat back there?" They begin to search for the messiest foods and decide on BBQ wings. I say: "we won't even be allowed to swallow our own saliva in there" and even miserable h laughs. He tells me again that I can use it all the time. (Until of course he goes crazy again.)

I went out with friends last night. Had a great time. Took my own car.

[bttrfly]

wow
you handled that well.

xoxoxo

[job]

Your situation is just so funny...now another MLC car. He really wanted you to take notice of it. I can't believe he keeps them so clean and yet, the dorm is such mess.

Oh, yes, they act like two year olds when they have their little tantrums. Try to think of them on the floor, kicking their fat little legs and holding their breath. Also, think of when your sons were teething...that's another scenario to envision when they are acting out.

You did very well w/this latest MLC act.

[bttrfly]

^^^ I can. People see the cars. No one sees the dorm room. MLCers are so superficial ... imho ...

Ha, you certainly handled that much better than I did when H bought his MLC vehicles. Hang in there. xoxoxo

[ciluzen]

Oh Hawho. You handled that so well. Three years ago I was hit by a car as it tried to cross the hwy and it totaled my car. When we got the pay out, H wanted to buy a fancy luxury SUV. I, knowing we were financially already spread thin, dared to tell him I didn't think we could afford it (the payout was only enough for a down payment). He had a major temper tantrum/meltdown and yelled that he could afford whatever he wanted.

When the salesman called a week later to see if H was still interested in the vehicle, he asked if I was "Bubbles", H's ladyfriend. Apparently they test drove the vehicle together after H's meltdown. Needless to say, H got an explosive reaction from me...and no luxury vehicle.

Funny that he's now suddenly so worried about money and unable to pay for anything. His MLC has been going on for years.

You never cease to amaze me with your ability to stay cool yet firm, and keep your sense of humor about your MLCer.

[HaWho]

Thanks guys for the kind compliments.

So, regarding the car, h did go through a period where his car was quite messy. It was during the deep, deep fog. There was junk everywhere.

It's funny you all think I did so well with his latest toy, another MLC car. It's not so expensive but a little bit more than the first one he bought. I felt well prepared for this scenario as one of my sister's had the following happen to her and I tried to mirror her as best I could. This is a funny one.

My sister's h bought himself a very expensive new car without even running it by her! It was in the garage and she was talking to me on her phone when she pulled into the garage and first saw it. She couldn't believe her eyes and she couldn't believe he just up and bought it! Well, she came into the house and said not a word about it. Her h was waiting ready to get all sorts of attention for the car. She could tell. She said nada.

The next day, they had to go somewhere. My sister got in the new car and drove all around without saying anything!!! At the end of the day, he finally came up to her and was annoyed when he said "well, aren't you going to say ANYTHING about my new car?" She said "oh, is it new? I hadn't noticed." LOL!!

Ciluzen, that's a pretty crazy story about you receiving the call from the dealer and him asking if you were Bubbles. Wow. I have been following your sitch and I hate to pry but I can't help wonder where is this woman's h is in all this?

Tonight at dinner h sat with us for a long while. He seemed not to want to leave the table. That's a first. Maybe he is breaking himself in for when my family arrives and he has to pretend he is of this planet.

My family arrives next week (some on Friday and some on Sunday.) I am going to be cleaning and cleaning. I fixed our ottoman which has been broken a while. The foot fell off. H tried to glue it even though it was a screw that needed a nut?!? i waited 'til it fell off again (two days later!) and then fixed it properly.

S10 has a game tomorrow. And other than that I will be making this place spiffy. Wonder if h is going to torture the cleaner and have her return to wage battle on his bathroom/bedroom?

[Esame]

You did amazingly well there WH, you should be proud of your self! I hope there will be a day when he will she what he did to you and your family, I dream the same for my H. I feel guilty having this mindset ad I don't mean to hurt him, but I really want him to know. Have a nice weekend.

[ciluzen]

LOL, Hawho. There's no "prying" on these boards!

I have wondered the same. He's around, and even talks to and spends time with my H now...they are friends, where before they didn't seem to be so much. Maybe he's now keeping an eye on things? But I wonder if he knows how often H and "Bubbles" had been spending time alone together. He is a busy person; works hard, very involved in his kids sports (coaching or helping coach), very friendly guy. His wife is similar. But I noticed that since our separation, especially since I explained to her that I noticed that my H was gravitating toward her when pulling away from me, from what I have seen, her H seems to be around Bubbles a lot more and they seem to do more as a family when my H is around. Before my H and Bubbles were more often doing things together while her H was at another activity or in another part of the vacation home. Just my impression from my limited contact.

[HaWho]

Well, this will be a lengthy post and Wonka, if you're reading, as promised, your post to me did not go to waste.

So this month h bought 2nd MLC car and took a trip. It's a costly month. This am we are in the kitchen and I ask him if he has thought about how much money we should be saving each month now that we sold the rental property. He says no. I say: "I think if we play the cards right we sock a decent amount away." Somehow he circles around and says that he just spent a good amount and he feels pretty good about it as he is entitled to it. Lots of hostility in his body language as he says this.

He goes to the dorm room and I text: if we save x every month in 5 years there can be y. And get this response, straight out of the MLC playbook. He says: "I have been conserving for a decade and now it's time to think about me for a bit. Your proposal is great but not well timed for my plans. I want to enjoy the summer. You start and I'll joint you in the fall." I counter and he again says, you start and I'll join you in the fall. The texts are flying fast and we have each others' attention.

I say: "I want you to enjoy; I am not saying you live like the Amish, but let's make it reasonable. Not x dollars a month" (I state the amount he just spent between the car and his vacation.). And this is where it gets scary. He says "ha ha I would never spend that amount." And I text "you just did, this very month."

The texts grind to a halt. I can just see him pulling his socks off to count toes and do the math.

A few minutes later he pivots and goes back to starting the tit-for-tat. He tells me how I have spent more on x trip then he has. What he doesn't get is it's the TOTAL amount he just spent in 1 MONTH and he is saying he is going to continue 'til fall?!?. I bob and weave and say "well, looks like I will see you in the fall."

A few hours later I see him and he looks awful. Maybe the buzz of spending has worn off? Or maybe he is shocked he just spent like that? Then the fun really starts. He texts me and saya 5 nights in NYC, not bad, aye?" I text back, no 4 nights. He texts 5 and I correct him that the first night I am in the plane flying a red eye. And I also remind him I am splitting hotel costs with my family. Then I say, I know my itinerary so stop this now. This is new for me: the drawing a line that I am done discussing it. He is an annoying child at this point. What a man-cub.

But he goes back for more. He says he stayed on his trip one less day than I am staying in NYC. And gives a smiley face. Look at him trying to justify. I correct him. And then I say: "consider my trip payback for the months I was with the kids while you ran around until 2-3AM with "Viagra Joe," "Living with His Parents Bob" and whoever else it was you were out partying with."

And silence. The flurry of texts stop again.

And another pivot from h. He says "payback? You go out plenty and I am happy for you. I am poking fun at you for the elaborate trips you have taken and yet you have given me hypocritical whining for my trip."

And I answer "no one enjoys a good joke more than I! But your going out vs. my going out are not comparable. When is the last time I was out until 2 or 3 am? I'll tell you this. Whenever it was, it was with you, my husband. You carried on going out 'til all hours of the morning for months (with unmarried men and who knows who else) while I stayed home and played stable parent to these boys. You are a father to two young boys. And as for trips, I have never in my married life gone on a 5 day trip without someone, usually, my husband and/or my kids. Not once. And certainly not to romantic destinations. And even this time I go with married sisters." Then I say: and I am not friends with a single never married woman, as, at my age, and at this point in my life, what do I have in common with her?

And, back to a pause. I have no idea if he remembers all that running and what a fool he made of himself. He says "anyway, have fun." Wow. He is speechless. If he had a leg to stand on he would fight to the death.

And I say: "thanks, I will. And with my decency in tact." (This is low, I know, but our situations are not comparable and I refuse to act like they are.)

He says: "ha ha. I can enumerate some of your issues so careful of your criticisms of me."

I know he is talking about when I was lost in my depression. So I say: "that does not scare me anymore. I have faced my demons and reconciled with my errors. Can you say the same? The question is when you know better, do you do better?" And then I say: "I once was where you are now. But I came out of the fog. Will you?"

I went out on a limb here to see what he would say as he was in a chatty mood. Also, in the midst of my depression he tried to tell me something was wrong with me and though I didn't believe it I later remembered him trying to help me.

He says he is not in a fog nor is he erring. Then he says "enjoy your trip and your life. I wish you health and happiness."

So stupid as 5 minutes later we leave together for S10's game. We act as if and this is new for us as we used to distance from each other after these kinds of interactions. And even stranger. I am not at all mad!! I say: "well let's take the new car out" and joke "let's see where all that money went." He scoffs in a happy way. And I am ready to tease him about it.

When he starts it I say: "geez, sounds like it will break down on the highway!! For that money I was expecting the engine to purr like a kitten." He laughs. He defends his new toy.

Funniest thing, when we get to the place my door won't open!! I have to roll down my window and open the door from the outside. Of course, you know me. I had a field day with that one and all at his expense. He seemed to take it in stride.

I will lie low now and see if any of it sinks in. Thank you Wonka. You were right. You can't always stuff it all.

[Esame]

Again, wow! I'm speechless, how can they not see what's right in front of them? How can they not see what they are doing to their families?

Do you think breaking it down to him helped him see it any better? I'm wondering if doing something similar with my H could help?

Sorry I have no real advice.

[job]

He really is acting like a spoiled brat! I'm glad you stood your ground and yes, there comes a time when you have to hit them w/some truth darts. Of course he's going to say he's not in the fog...where else is he if he's not in a fog living in a stinky dorm room and driving a rat trap that sounds rough and the door won't open from the inside?

If you are attempting to put some money aside, you may want to consider opening a separate account in your name and place your part of the savings in there. If you don't, I can see your "teenager" going through all of it by the end of the summer. If he wakes up and starts acting like a grown man again, you can always transfer the money to the joint account, but because he feels he is entitled to having a fun summer, I would be very leery of putting money in any account he can get his hands on right now. To me, it sounds like his replay is ramping up and he's been simmering for a while.

I agree, step back and see if the text messages reach the Mother Ship and get translated for him to better understand.

Hang in there!

[HaWho]

Esame - time will tell if any of this sinks in. I know from the pauses and lack of barbs back that some of my darts hit their target. His actions will tip his hand as to what's going on.

And just to clarify, the car is actually very nice. The engine sounded great, I just decided before I got in it, to mess with him. But the door handle does stick and that needs to be fixed. I almost joked: "it's smart of you to have a passenger door that won't open. Trapping someone is certainly the only way you can get a person to stay in your crazy world with you."

Thanks Job. I will be watching the accounts daily. No joke there. Looks like he is going to try to live like a Saudi prince this summer. What a foolish man. He is going to take care of himself for a bit?!? He makes it sound like he's gone without air to provide for us. Yes, he provided well for us. But trust me, he has taken very good care of himself, too.

And through all this it hit me that he is resentful that he is a grown man with responsibilities. It's that simple and yet that complicated.

I wish there was some vitual reality chamber I could pop him into where it seemed like he was living his life but really he was in a fake world where he was no danger to the rest of us. I could lure him in by saying: "it's an age reversing chamber! Look, look! 5 minutes in there and you are 20 again!!"

Then I could lock the door and check on him (through a window and microphone system) in 2020.

[job]

I've been wondering when he would get to the stage where he would say "he's entitled to some fun, etc." Well, he's there and I have a feeling you will be seeing a lot of money pass through his hands from now until fall. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't redecorate the dorm room or finally decide to move out. Sometimes it takes a while for them to get to the spending part, but you'll really need to watch the finances since he's made the announcement.

Yes, he resents that he doesn't have the freedom to do what he wants and be that young guy who didn't have responsibilities. He's forgetting that he can't go back to that age and nothing stays the same forever. Poor man. Actually a crystal ball would be better for him to see what life has in store for him, but I do like your idea.

It's going to get very interesting since your family is coming to visit.

[Ginger1]

I'm glad you let out all those truth darts and you didn't hold in your feelings anymore. Sometimes, you just got to say what is on your mind. You didn't say anything that wasn't true.

[BrightFuture]

HaWho, I just can picture that cheshire cat smile on your H when he pulled next to you in that new car.

I absolutely admire how you “pocked” him with all these truth darts! I think it great that he responds and tries to defend himself and his decisions. The “stuff” about him to be entitled to do what he wants and spend the money on himself has finally came out of him. I think this is great! And then… here you come with your truth darts… I think it will help to bring him to that point when he realizes how ridiculous his actions are a lot quicker. I might be wrong though…

HaWho, you don’t stop to amaze me. You keep this great sense of humor through all of this. I always enjoy reading your posts. As for the paint on the side of his new car… Maybe make a sticker… “My second MLC car” and put it in the back window when he is not looking… Or, let me know… and I will make a sticker and come over to put it on the car, LOL.

[HaWho]

Job - it cracks me up that he is now going to take care of himself "a bit." Umm, what do you call what you've already been doing?!? I also love that he says he is going to enjoy his summer. And according to him, it starts now (early May) and ends in October. I almost informed him that his fun is spanning 3 seasons not one.

Ginger - it felt good to call him out. Yes, it needed to be done.

Bright - I have to find the humor in all this otherwise I would go mad.

Speaking of the ridiculous my little man-cub is spewing more. Today, he left his keys out and I noticed my bike lock on there. So I removed it and put his keys on the handle of the stinky man-cub dorm room.

It was a big mistake as he is just itching for a fight. I can see he is unhappy and I guess the car and trip did not heal what ails him. He is looking under rocks for problems. He has been leaving the house and shutting the door very loudly. He doesn't quite slam it but it's just enough that he makes a fool of himself. He huffs about and I want to buy him one of those bibs with the pacifier that clips to it. I am waiting for him to stomp his feet and hold his breath. It is truly ridiculous to witness. I wonder if he will put on this show for my family to witness.

So anyway he texts asking if I took the key. I explain and he says it is a key to something else. So I give it back. He is very mad when I do so. Like I have trespassed into a teen's life.

As I leave the house I notice he has planted a few things (I assume in anticipation of my family?). I text and say it looks nice. And out froths the spew like a crazy, foaming at the mouth, raccoon. How dare I take the key off and on and on he goes. He says this shows I have low character!! Here comes the projection on the heels of my truth darts to him. I will ignore this one. He does also tell me to stay out of his tiny room. LOL! I guess the keys somehow ended up on his floor and not the handle so he thought I threw them there? Probably they fell from the stench. Poor keys, they never saw it coming.

It's like the anger I saw pre-BD. He wants to fight and he's looking for it. It does not matter what I do he will find some way to blame me. I have stayed out of his space for days now but it doesn't seem that the dust is settling. I hate to mind read but I wonder how much of this is due to my family visiting?

Meanwhile I am busy raising kids, working, playing tennis and preparing for my family. His latest comment that he is now entitled to have some fun, did jolt me quite a bit, though. I realized the extent to which he is truly lost in replay. And I have been working harder on just leaving him behind. He is a year and a half past BD but the anger is still palpable--it needs its own room.

[job]

He's been testing you by leaving the keys out and yes, he's seeking justifications that he can use to work up to leaving. He's baiting you, wanting you to tell him to leave. Poor child, he needs to make this decision on his own.

Taking care of himself, means fun, doing what he wants and when he wants and yes, leaving dirty dishes around, not having "mom" there watching him and, of course, spending money and most likely having women friends over. They really do go off the rails in replay and some of it is just beyond belief.

Leave him to stew in his own juices in the stew pot. Don't make any small talk w/him. Allow him to come to you. Right now, nothing is right in his world and he is angry at himself and is taking it out on everyone. Just leave him be...he'll either get over it or leave. BTW, is the packed suitcase still in the garage?

Keep the focus on you, your sons and the family visit.

[HaWho]

Job - ok, I'll continue to steer clear of small talk. I am staying out of his way but as said he is looking for ANY ammunition. And yep, packed suitcase is still on standby in the garage.

Job, as you foresaw, he is starting to spruce up his quarters. Except he has run out of things to do in the dorm room itself, as it is closet-sized. So, he bought two huge jungle-like plants to put outside his dorm room. He removed our wedding picture from the table in the hallway (next to his stinky bathroom) and put a ginormous jungle-like plant there, too. He moved the wedding picture to the dining room.

And I agree, Job, I think he wants out so he can go party to his heart's content. He is searching desperately for new band-aids. I think he wants me to toss him out so that he comes out smelling like roses. His dad walked out on them and I think even in the haze of that fog, he knows those kids will hold it against him if he walks.

If he leaves, that will be a tough one for me as in my family of origin, walking out is never an option. I have seen very manly men on my father's side who have told their sons, you don't walk out EVER. You stay and work it out (unless it's abusive). And they have told their daughters, if a guy walks out, be done with him. Should he choose to leave, in my mind, it probably will be: don't let the door hit 'ya where the good Lord split 'ya.

[job]

Oh my! Plants outside the door. How does the hallway look w/them there? Are they live plants? Sounds like he's fixing up his place to look like a hotel area. LOL!

I can't wait for your family to see these improvements! LOL! I guess the wedding photo reminds him of the past. Of course, you could always move the photo back and see if he moves it again.

He really is trying to push your buttons and also trying to spruce up his space for when your family comes. Take some photos and store them away just in case you need to show him some of his behavior way down the road.

I wouldn't be surprised if he has someone come and clean the space (again). It's going to get very interesting.

[HaWho]

Thanks for the laugh Job. Actually it looks like a cheesy hotel. The plants are live, huge; too big for the space. It reminds me of the decor of Doubletree Hotels--same overwhelming tropical feel. Except, he hasn't taken the huge stickers off the plastic pots so it all looks even worse!!!

I think he is waiting to see if I clean his bathroom. I have always been one to make nice-nice and I am sure he expects me to get in there and make it all fancy for my family. I like things to be nice for my guests and he knows that. I have shampooed all my rugs and cordoned off those rooms to everyone, especially my 120 lb. dog who hikes in the muck with me! And each day I am like Mary Magdalene washing those paws before he comes in the house. (The dog seems to be getting used to the royal treatment. He now stops at front door and waits for me to clean him all up!!) And I told the kids, until family comes, treat the house like a museum: look, but don't touch!!

Little does h know that I have already told my sisters that h is going through a "special time" in his life and unless they have Ebola suits in hand, it's best to use my bathroom or the bathroom of two pre-teen boys!!!

One sister comes in 2 days so it's down to the wire for that bathroom to be cleaned. Oh, and get this. Speaking of his bathroom, he took his bath mat and stuck it on a broom handle and left that outside the front door!!! So trashy! I will take a pic of that. My h used to have such house pride. He really liked things to look good. Well, at least he is trying with those plants.

I have contemplated sticking the wedding photo in the lush leaves of the plant. Come on!! How funny would that be?

[job]

OMG! Where did he stay when he went away last week? Maybe that's where he got the idea of the plants? Maybe he is trying to tell you and the world that he is tired of living in a "hotel/motel" room. LOL! He really wants you and everyone else to see what he's contributed to the redecorating of his space.

I wouldn't touch his bathroom w/a ten foot pole! Yuck! I can't believe he left that bath mat on a broom handle and left it outside the front door. I can just imagine what your next door neighbor will think. That's trashy! But it's a first for this forum! LOL! Definitely take photos for when you need a good laugh.

I'm glad you warned your sisters about his special time. It's going to get interesting and it will be hard not to laugh if he gets nutty. It's going to a visit for the record books. Who knows...he might be proud of his dorm room and invite them in to see it.

BTW, I'm the same way about my home, i.e., having things nice and clean for guests. So, I do understand what you are saying. I'm surprised he hasn't made a mess just to bait you into a heated discussion.

Again, it's going to be interesting and I surely would love to be a fly on that wall when your family arrives and has been there just a day or so. I wish you all the best because you do not know what he'll say or do, but that is on him.

[Sotto]

Maybe the mat on the broom is a kind of welcome scarecrow?

[HaWho]

I did prepare one sister (the one like me, who can't keep a poker face) that there is an artificial Christmas tree in the dorm room. She joked she will bring ornaments to hang on it.

We always find something to laugh about but we won't need much help on this front if he just acts like he normally does.

A day after I called him out on his MLC retail binge therapy, he told me we would never save any money because I spend too much on potato chips?!? Yeah, potato chips--that's REALLY what makes a dent in our savings, not a new car and a frat boy trip all in the same week. Umm, I would have to buy the whole Ruffles factory worth of chips to catch up with his spending. He is grasping at straws with that one.

I wish I could transcribe every bizarre interaction with him. I have decided I will make a MLC photo album. So far, I have the dorm room, the stinky bathroom, the dying poinsettia, the tropical plants, the lit up artificial Christmas tree and the mat on the broom handle (right outside the front door). I regret not getting a pic of the pots he threw away. I have thought about including some of our text conversations too, as there is some gold in dem der hills.

Aw well, something funnier may just come along . . .

[HaWho]

Sotto - ahh interesting. Or wait a second. Maybe displaying a mat on the broom handle is the Mezuzah of the MLC world?

[job]

Oh, I could really have some fun w/this man/child. I would go out and purchase large quantities of potato chips (in the small lunch serving bags) and have them sitting around in bowls and see how long it would take him to chow down on them. I'm sure he eats his fair share of chips in the home.

What's any more costly then large plants! Oh, be sure to take a photo of the price stickers on those plants and do a cost comparison to your potato chip purchases.

He really is outdoing himself and I can't help but shake my head and laugh. Don't be surprised if your sister brings ornaments for his tree and his plants. Gosh...I can't wait to see how he is around your family. They will have a lot to talk about.

I think the man/child has lost the plot! LOL!

[Sotto]

Talking of photos, I had a cull of some of mine from my phone - and deleted the one of H is his mesh T-shirt. That pic for me (taken as the A was in full swing) epitomises his MLC for me and I decided I didn't need it any longer.

It's a good job you can have a laugh with your family about his antics. Hopefully you'll be generous with the bowls of chips during their visit?

Xx

[HaWho]

You two crack me up!!

Sotto - I don't blame you one bit for purging that photo. Awful. I am wincing for him. Geez.

Job - love the idea of individual portions of chips scattered around the house.

When my sisters come and he is in the room, I will put one potato chip on a plate, grab a knife and ask who would like a piece.

[2Times2Many]

OMG HaWho, plants outside the door. I LOL when I read that one.

I'm sorry you've reached the "It's time to do for me" stage. If he behaves anything like my H did, be prepared for him to get very self-serving and selfish.

I'm with Job. Don't engage him when he's itching for a fight. It sounds like he's looking for (or trying to create) excuses to justify his behavior. Don't give them to him.

Hugs to you!

[Esame]

HaWho with all the "material" your H is providing you can write a comedy, sitcom, or something of the kind! Then again I think it is your take on things that is funny, he is simply pathetic. I haven't got as much experience as others here so I'm easily amused, my H is at the "early" stages, nothing as dramatic as your man/child.

I hope you have a good time with your family, and he controls his crazy while you gave guests

[HaWho]

And then just received a text from h stating he following: FYI I will be making my own dinners going forward.

What is this Job? He wants attention? A fight? To tell me he wants nothing to do with me?

What a stupid, stupid man.

[AJM]

Aw well, something funnier may just come along . . .

Reminds me of the lawyer joke (hi Wet) where he stands in the boat on the lake and dares God to hit him with lightning.

Be careful what you wish for. You might get it when it is something so easy and possibly entertaining

I was thinking about you HW. That's why I popped on. I don't read the boards much these days, but recently had a conversation with a friend who seems to be in a place in his life where his past is catching up. He was not a faithful man with his wife and it's been interesting to hear the why. To here about how he hated himself for it but talked himself into it. What reminded me of your situation is the powerful way our brains try to protect themselves. To the insider, it seems totally logical and the way of things. To the outsider it is ludicrous. But the point is that the internal "story" we tell ourselves is a powerful one and one that gets used to "protect" the teller.
From what? Who knows?

I wonder if that's what you're seeing - your H telling himself a story that breaks with the reality you know?

At some point, we all hope they "wake up" and some do. Some never remember the crazies - more protection from themselves. I wonder if yours will?

In the meantime, the plants and potato chips are certainly amusing. But as for your question above - it's not that he's stupid - he's obviously protecting himself from "something" internal. The "messages" he's trying to convey? May as well be speaking his own language because I doubt anyone else can understand without the rest of the story. Not even him.

Something to think about. And I wouldn't worry about the message until he gets a grow light and dred locks..

AJ

[2Times2Many]

Not Job, but my impression is that it's an attempt to push you away. It seems like he wants to prove to himself (and show you) that he doesn't need you to take care of him. He can make his own decisions and take care of himself without you. He can buy cars, take vacations, cook his own meals, redecorate his dorm, etc and he doesn't need permission from "Mom" to do what he wants. It looks like rebellion to me ... teenage rebellion.

And yeah, it's stupid, but I think it's pretty normal in MLC land.

I'd give him all the room he's demanding and let him spin in the breeze, but that's me and you have family coming in. I haven't walked in your shoes and I sure haven't had to deal with a MLCer with children in the house but my thoughts are with you. Stay strong.

[Wonka]

And then just received a text from h stating he following: FYI I will be making my own dinners going forward.

What is this Job? He wants attention? A fight? To tell me he wants nothing to do with me?

What a stupid, stupid man.

"Oh okay, that's fine as long as you clean up the pots/pans and dishes you use for your own dinner. Just to be clear I am not going to clean up after you. Enjoy."

[HaWho]

Hi AJ - nice to hear from you. I can't say what story my h tells himself. I must say, outside of a few edits I would like to make, for the most part, I have a clear conscience with my own autobiography. And that feels pretty good.

2X2Many - yes, I see the pattern you lay out and it makes sense. I guess he is rebelling hard core. I assume he is very mad that I called him out on his behavior and on the spending.

Wonka - you are right. I will make sure he receives that memo. It's going to be such a battle. I think he very well may throw all the pots and pans away. What a h€llcat he is these days. He has so much anger. It's incredible. He seems to be unraveling.

This time next week I will be on a plane to NYC. How sad is it that being in mobs of people, surrounded by angry New Yorkers, tons of noise and traffic is going to be more relaxing than this lunacy.

I am trying to stay away from him but he keeps sticking that target onto my forehead.

Thanks everyone for all the support.

[HaWho]

And here's the end to this banner day. He called a locksmith and had a lock (that requires a key) put on the dorm room. Wonder if he'll lock it each time he leaves the room? Even if he just goes to the kitchen for water?

He has really lost his mind.

[Sotto]

Well, he's full steam ahead just now.....that's for sure!

Take care HaWho xx

[Esame]

Him preparing his own meals will surely looks absolutely normal to the kids. They will not be puzzled by that at all are they? Does he not think AT ALL???

[HaWho]

Woke up this morning and I just can't believe he got a locksmith and put a keyed lock on his dorm room room. He just went into the shower, which is outside the door, and he locked the dorm room door. Guess he'll be carrying those keys around like a custodian now?

Oh my, he has really gone off the deep, deep end.

[mleigh4]

I am following and can't believe it either. My H put a piece of paper on his door to see if I was going in....but a lock!? Maybe it's more about your family then you? He may not want anyone going in there, there surely must be shame and embarrassment going on with him.

[ciluzen]

This is such an extreme change from the other MLC weirdness that he has exhibited. A major declaration of cleft from family and spouse, though his living there still is a thread-like attachment. Like a disgruntled, but clean-cut teen who suddenly goes overboard goth or punk. An act of rebellion. But what is it he is suddenly rebelling against? He's fed up with something...what? And declaring his privacy by locking up tight...what is he hiding or protecting? I guess you just show no interest and ignore his tantrum? So strange...

[HaWho]

Mleigh and Ciluzan, it is quite astounding! He is just unraveling. He showered this morning and ran out super early. Just like early replay days. Go, go, go. Said bye to the kids and ignored me 100%.

I suspect it may have to do with the fact that one of my sisters is coming. He thinks the world of her. Her opinion of him would matter to him. Also, I imagine he has to be mad that I called him out on the spending and his months of gallivanting all around town. He told me to keep my nose out of "his" bank accounts.

Job - I assume I just ignore all these latest antics?

Oh my, it just occurred to me that he'll probably be locking that door when family comes.

[job]

Well, he definitely takes the cake this week. Winner, winner, chicken dinner for the frat brat! LOL! I have a feeling he's doing all of this to put a bit of damper on your family coming to visit. He's truly rebelling and doesn't want them staying there...but he also doesn't want you to show them his dorm room. Apparently the key episode hit a sensitive spot w/him so he's going to show you, "mom", that you don't have any right to come into his room any longer...not that you have been...but he's paranoid and he thinks you are in there a lot. Kids go thru periods of rebelling and your adult son is doing just that.

I wouldn't say a thing to him except to remind him that if he's using the kitchen, to please clean up after himself and put plates, pots and pans and utensils in their proper places once they are clean. Now, it will be interesting to see what he does about his laundry and cleaning of the dorm room.

Sit quietly...the show is about to go on. No cell phones, no talking...just sit quietly and observe.

[HaWho]

Job - thank you for all the advice. Although "living with the loon of the week" is not exactly a prize I covet. LOL!

Here is a sticky issue. What should I do when my sisters arrive and we are all going out with the boys? I assume I casually invite him, too? I think he will be declining and be on the run most of the time.

I think he's going to give my sisters a fireworks display.

[job]

He is definitely the poster boy for MLC this week.

I would definitely extend invitations to him when going out Leave the ball in his court and if he opts to go along, fine and if not...that's fine too.

I can't wait to see what he does while they are there. It's going to be one for the record books. LOL!

[2Times2Many]

HaWho, it sounds like your h is really rattled by your family's upcoming visit.

I've seen other threads in the past where the MLCers put locks on bedroom doors, office doors, etc. I think most have this big issue with privacy. I know mine did/does, but no locks thus far.

Don't let your h get you riled. Just sit back, observe and let him do his thing. Concentrate on the enjoyment you'll get by spending some time with your family. And take care of your boys because I'm sure they are wondering what the heck is going on.

[job]

BTW, I went out and purchased a lot of potato chips and pop corn for you and your family. We all will be sitting on the curb watching the drama unfold.

[HaWho]

OMG! He called in the cavalry!!! Cleaning ladies have arrived are tackling that horrendous bathroom. I am dying to see if he allows them into the dorm room. (Remember at Christmas he did not.)

I am in my office working when I hear them arrive. He tells the cleaners it's a "small job today." (Yeah, but little do they know that although they're only cleaning 300 sq. feet, they might as well be building the Hoover Dam. The work is just as dangerous.)

He points them to the bathroom. I could not tell if they are cleaning the dorm room. The rest of the house is spotless, thanks to your truly. But he doesn't know this as he never comes upstairs. So he takes them to the boys' bathroom and it is glistening. So he says "huh, guess this one is all set."

And I am sure those cleaners, knowing it's a KIDS' bathroom are wondering what wild animal uses the downstairs bathroom. I can hear them whispering down there.

2X2Many - thanks for those words. I consider you to be a calm, cool cat and I going to do just as you advise. I'll let him spin himself deeper into the hole he has dug for himself. No rescuing. Job - I will be quiet and watchful.

And most importantly, I am going to enjoy my time with my family. Sadly, I am most looking forward to a hug from each of them. These have been some very hard and stressful years on me.

Now I need to dash out without these cleaning ladies seeing my face. I feel so bad for them.

[job]

LOL! I'm not surprised to read this latest antic. He's not done yet! Hey! I've got the popcorn ready...come sit on the curb with the rest of us.

At least the dorm room will finally be cleaned!

Enjoy the time you spend w/your family.

[2Times2Many]

OMG ... a cleaning crew? He IS rattled by this family visit! I suspect he may settle back down some once they leave. He seems to be in a tailspin over all this and hopefully all the craziness will come down to a tolerable level once they're gone. In the meantime, you and your boys enjoy your family.

I would take all of this as a sign he knows he's behaving oddly and cares about what others ... your family ... think of him. There's a conscience and some recognition in there somewhere. Just my observation, but if that's the case, it may not be a bad thing.

I totally get the sadness of looking forward to hugs. I've had moments where a stranger at the grocery store could have given me a hug and I would have been grateful. Soak it in!

[HaWho]

They DID clean the dorm room!! First thing they did was open all windows. Wonder what they made of the artificial Christmas tree? That's the first time it's been cleaned in almost 2 years!!

He is so sly. Listen to this one. He asked them to vacuum the already spotless living room?!? Maybe he was trying to make himself feel better. As if he is saying : you are not just here for me and my mess. You are here to "help" us all.

They spent 2 seconds on that (and probably wondered why they were bothering) and then ran down the hall to tackle the MLC wing of the house. 2 of them had been working on a small bathroom and that closet-sized dorm room for 1 1/2 hours!! How confusing for them. 95% of the house looks like the Taj Mahal and 5% looks like a scene out of Hoarders. What a disconnect.

And the fun never stops. Yesterday when I was vacuuming my car in the garage 2 birds flew in. I left the door open but they did not fly out. I heard h yelling at them. Poor birds. This morning he texts me that "whoever" let them in needs to get them out. They did their business on his MLC car and boy was he mad!! Good birdies!! So I covered the garage windows and made it dark in there and they flew out to the light.

So I text and say, "got the birds out. That was a lot of work but I own it as they flew in on my watch. So I took care of it. Regarding your cooking, please clean up your pots, pans and utensils when you are done. Thanks!" (See how I told him I took care of my part...hint, hint.)

Well, he gets home and somehow the garage door won't close even though it did after I let the birds out. And he texts me saying "whoever broke the garage door please fix it." (Guess my new name is "Whoever.") I know he is trying to stick it to me. Tit for tat. You ask me to clean up after myself, you fix the doors. I am sure he broken door coincides with those birds in there. They were perched on the rails. I have no problem fixing things. Actually, I enjoy figuring new things out. So I googled a few troubleshooting things and fixed that in 15 minutes. I know he had to be impressed as A) he never has the patience to fix anything and B) his only solution to every repair is either glue or tape (no joke).

I have cleaned the whole house, worked, taken care of the kids, fixed my ottoman, a drawer that fell off, broken garage doors, etc. Meanwhile he is like Cro-Magnon man, grunting and oohing and ahhhing over fire.

[HaWho]

Just learned another reason he put the lock on the door. He has serious food allergies and his epi-pens are missing. He has accused me of stealing them and says (with no jest) that I am trying to kill him. I joked that I couldn't have stolen the epi-pens as I never could have survived the stench of the dorm room.

Oh, so that must be why he is cooking for himself, too? My, oh my, he thinks I hid his epi-pens and now I will poison him with foods to which he is allergic! (He did eat the cookies I baked though. Guess they were worth dying over.)

Mwah ha ha haaa. MLC cloak and dagger over here.

[BrightFuture]

OMG, HaWho! I’m reading this and thinking that it is like a soap opera. Whatever it is in his head is not right. You are trying to kills him… seriously!

At least he thought about cleaning his bathroom and the dorm room. You should have your family over more often, LOL.

I chuckled at the bird story. They knew exactly where to do their business, hehe.

Like ciluzen said, he is rebelling against something. And I think this something is the upcoming visit of your family. It is probably disturbing his “way of life” and forcing him to do things… and he probably knows that he has to behave too…

My guess is that he is going to be finding the reasons to present himself busy, so he would not have to participate in the family activities. I could be wrong though. I hope you enjoy the time with the family. Don’t let you H spoil it for you.

[kml]

Quick note re: the Epipens. I only recently learned that their price has been jacked up to obscene levels on the past few years ($575 for a two pack). For anyone out there who has to pay those prices, be aware you can order them from a Canadian pharmacy for $200 U.S. Instead.

[Esame]

Seriously? He has turned completely insane, like a college flatmate that doesn't like the people he has been allocated a room with! Crazy!

[job]

Well, I told you the drama wasn't over yet and look what happened last evening. LOL!

So, the birds got in the garage...no big deal, you handled it very well. As for the garage door, I'm sure it was very simple fix...he's just itching for a major fight and you aren't taking his bait.

I'm sure the cleaning crew had a lot to talk about when they left your home. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't take photos and laughed all the way home. I know the deputies laughed about my xh when he had them escort him to my home so long ago.

BTW, him thinking that you are trying to kill him is a common thought w/the MLCer. My xh complained of stomach pains and I opened a new pack of of antacids in front of him and he swore I had put something in them to kill him. Paranoia at its finest. As for his pens, he either has misplaced them, they are in the suitcase in the garage or he's run out and needs to purchase new ones. However, kml is correct that you can get them from a pharmacy in Canada much cheaper. I get my medication from Canada and w/o a prescription.

Well, it's going to be very interesting. The weekend is here and the guests are going to be arriving very soon. His anxiety level is up and will continue to go up. Poor thing, he may even have a meltdown before the visit is over...but whatever you do, don't take his bait.

Good luck and I'll be thinking of you and your family.

[HaWho]

I know paranoia and depression enjoy each others' company. It is still astounding to witness. I keep the house 100% safe for his allergies and always have. None of those foods are even allowed in and I politely tell all guests that.

Sitting quiet, here is what I notice. Yes, Job, his anxiety is high due to the fact that family is visiting and we are pulling open the curtain. Let the show begin! He is trying his hardest to pick fights with me. I see it and it is so obvious. He is desperate to deflect and a good fight would help him out.

He is also grasping for control. He has locked the checkbook in the dorm room. I need access to that. I asked him to leave that out and explained I need it for me and for the kids. He said "hmm I don't know about that." I say: "well, then leave me 5 checks." This morning he left me 2 on the island.

But last night, as soon as that conversation ended and I got wind that he *thinks* he's going to be rationing MY checks to MY own money (!), I called the bank and express ordered myself 500 checks. Best $15 I ever spent. Those arrive Tuesday in plain packaging to my name only.

In good news; he did dish wash his own pan last night. But he waited 'til I was asleep to do so. I am sure he is trying to save face. But left his dishes on the counter. So I asked him to clean those up before my sister arrives.

Get ready folks. I have not seen him around family in 17 months. And last we were with family, it was 1 mo. Post BD, at Christmas. He unleashed verbally on his mother (in front of everyone). And my BIL, who knew nothing, went to my sister and said something was terribly wrong with my h. He said he couldn't follow his logic and he didn't seem to be making sense.

[HaWho]

When he sees me writing all those checks, beyond the measly two he gave me, he'll probably think I made a duplicate key to that stinky, MLC incubator of a room.

[job]

His problem w/allergies (again) may have taken place on his trip and not in the home. But. again, paranoia plays a role in his crisis. Not your problem since you keep the home safe for him.

Oh, man! The checkbook is going to stink! He is desperately trying to maintain control and he doesn't want you to see what he's writing checks for and yes, he's also monitoring your check writing in his own little warped way. I have to say...nice job on ordering a batch of new checks. I hope he doesn't get the mail the day that they arrive.

I wonder if he's planning to start writing the checks on the account for the bills as well as balancing the checkbook. He really wants you to have to beg for things right now and he's going to find out you aren't playing that game w/him. I wonder what he'll do next.

Passive-aggressive behavior is out in full view these days. That is so funny about washing the pan after you went to sleep. I'm sure he left the dishes so that you had something to see this morning and make a comment about.

It's going to be a very interesting time around your home. I just hope that he can contain himself and behave...but you might get lucky and he'll take some nice long drives not be around much. Time will tell.

Good luck!

[HaWho]

Yes Job he was waiting for me. So after I asked him to clean up his dishes he wrote:

FYI: Anytime you ask me to wash a dish, that dish goes in the trash. I bought them (like everything else) and I am generous enough to share them with you. Pitch in. I pay for the water to wash them, the soap and the dish. You can put some labor in. Those 3 are in the trash if you want them.


Very charming response. And they are in fact in the garbage. And he took the two checks off the island. He is definitely pulling out the PA behavior. He is very rebellious and struggling for control. And he is very, very nasty.

[Wonka]

Remind me again...how old is your H?!

[HaWho]

Sonia - he is a VERY, VERY angry 17 year old punk.

My sister is here and so far he has the old h mask plastered on. It's remarkable to see the duplicity! But he sits away from us not with us. There is little eye contact. He did have to go to the dorm room for something and unlocked the door, with his keys, within earshot of my sister. She sure noticed that!

He chit-chatted a bit. He told her absolutely nothing is new. He showed his new toy. He asked about her. Then he ran out the door to walk the dog.

Run, run, run and spin, spin, spin.

[HaWho]

* Hate autocorrect. That was supposed to be Wonka, not Sonia.

Honestly, I am exhausted for him and we are only 2 hours in.

[kml]

I have a question for you about the finances. You work full time, right? So where does he get the idea that he pays for everything? Is there some huge disparity in your incomes? Or does he just think that even though you work full time, your also supposed to do everything at home?

And one other question..... What is your goal here? Is it to wait out his depression? Is it to buy time until the kids are older? Are you still trying to reconcile? If so, it might be time to experiment with a different approach. If not.... At what point would you be ready to call it quits?

[mleigh4]

I want to know, at what point does this become emotional abuse??

I totally respect and admire you HW, but I care about you too. MLC or not, spin or not, he is being ridiculous and acting like a real a$$.

[Esame]

I want to know, at what point does this become emotional abuse??

I totally respect and admire you HW, but I care about you too. MLC or not, spin or not, he is being ridiculous and acting like a real a$$.

I totally agree with this, and I also wonder the same! When does it stop being crazy behaviour and it becomes abuse towards the other spouse and kids?

You are doing amazingly well, well done!

[job]

I'm so sorry that he's gone to the next level of being just plain nasty and the entitlement is out in full force. I knew he was going to spit out more drama. So, he's put the dishes in the trash. What does he think will happen when every dish, cup, silverware, pots and pans end up in the trash? Is he going to purchase a new set of everything and call it his own and not allow you to use it? He evidently forgets that you work and that you also contribute to the household finances as well.

I wonder just what happened on that trip away from home. He's been upset before...but not this nasty for this long. He's definitely gone into the replay mode full on and is looking to pick fights wherever he can. I still think he's doing this stuff to push your buttons for you to tell him to leave. He's being a real @ss about things and let's face it...he's not a happy camper about anything.

I'm not at all surprised at how he's behaving around your sister. It's going to take a miracle for him not to show the MLC side of himself while your family is there. He'll be ready to explode by the time the visit comes to an end. He evidently didn't want them to come to your home and stay and it's disrupted his so called lifestyle.

Please take care of yourself and if he gets too carried away, call him on his hot mess self just as you would one of your sons. His behavior is getting way out of hand and unacceptable.

Sending positive thoughts your way.

BTW, it's time to start a new thread.

[Wonka]

Waiting for the fireworks to explode...wonder what the next installment of Mr. Surly's Dorm Room reality tv episode will look like or maybe not.

[bttrfly]

ha babe need a new thread check in I'm worried about u xoxoxo

[HaWho]

New thread is here:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2675587&#Post2675587

[job]

Thanks!