Bumping Elbows with MLC

[mleigh4]

I am laughing so hard. Christmas music this morning, and your son asking why it is on, that just kills me HW! That is hilarious.

Well, sounds like your H has definitely made progress from last year. How terrible for your family to have to see all that, and not being able to do anything.

So Job, are you saying we basically have to wait for the MLC'er to see themselves that they are depressed, and hope they take the steps to help themselves? And the ones who don't see it as depression, who don't learn that happiness comes from within, may be the ones who stay stuck? I think I know the answer to that...

I do agree though, IC who are not familiar with MLC depression really do scare me. I wonder why there are so few out there? Don't they see a pattern going on?

HW, so happy to hear you are having a good day. So, you still hide eggs for your boys? I was hoping this would end soon so I can get some sleep! Lol. Actually, I truly enjoy this kind of stuff. Have a great day

[job]

mleigh,
From all that I have seen, MLCers do not like for us to tell them what is wrong w/them, i.e., diagnosing their ailments such as depression, heart, etc. They do not think that there is anything wrong w/them for a long time. As I have mentioned, you can gently suggest a visit to the GP just to make sure things are okay, i.e., yearly checkups, etc., but don't be surprised if they won't do it.

As for being stuck, those that don't grow up, face their issues and accept that they can't change what happened are the ones that remain stuck, i.e., not because they don't learn that happiness comes from within. MLC is all about their childhood issues. Some learn that happiness comes from within and others won't, even after they grow up, i.e., just like we have grownups who aren't suffering from MLC and still aren't happy w/what they have and accomplished in life and continue to spend money and try to keep up w/the Jones'.

I can't wait to see what happens for Memorial Day and Fourth of July. Jingle Bells anyone?

[BrightFuture]

OMG, Christmas music…

So Job, are you saying we basically have to wait for the MLC'er to see themselves that they are depressed, and hope they take the steps to help themselves? And the ones who don't see it as depression, who don't learn that happiness comes from within, may be the ones who stay stuck? I think I know the answer to that...

I have the same question. My H is taking the antidepressant medication now. Does it mean he at least recognizes that he has a depression? Does it mean that I’m off the hook for his unhappiness? Does it mean he has a better chance to come out of this and not get stuck?

HaWho, sorry for high jacking…

[job]

HaWho,

I'm sorry to hijack your thread again, but I would like to address Bright's posting and if she wants to continue this, we can do so on her thread.

Bright,

ADs take the edge off of depression to help them cope w/day-today activities. ADs generally do not make everything go away and sometimes people have issues w/the ADs and come off of them because of those issues. He may or may not recognize that he has depression even though he is on meds. I know that my friend knew that he wasn't feeling well, but would never admit to depression. In fact he asked his GP why he was being described Paxil and the GP told him to go around the corner and request an appointment w/the doctor there. Guess what field the doctor was in? He was a shrink! Of course, my friend didn't do it because he didn't think he needed to see a shrink nor did he take the Paxil. So, the question is this...is your h actually taking the meds as prescribed or only when he thinks about it? I'm sure you don't know the answer to that one.

As for being off the hook for his unhappiness....no one knows the answer to this except your h. He could still be unhappy w/his life and from what you've stated about him changing up some of the decorating in the condo, it sounds like he's still looking for "change" in his life. He's making changes to make himself happy for the time being. Does he have a better chance of coming out of MLC and not getting stuck? The million dollar question will be...has he accepted that he can't change anything from his childhood and is now ready to grow up? They have to face those issues, realize that they weren't at fault and accept that they didn't have any control to change what happened. If they can do that, then they have a better chance to continue moving along, growing up and coming out the other side of their crisis. Again, ADs is not the miracle pill to fixing the MLCer...it just helps them cope with day-to-day life. Eventually, the depression will lift if he continues moving along the path and if he's taking ADs, he may not require them after the crisis is over, but again, no one knows whether he will or not.

Bottom line, he still has to work thru his crisis, ADs or not, in order to come out the other side. Also, people taking ADs should not mix alcohol and/or other drugs w/the ADs, but some ignore the warnings and still drink. It's not a wise thing to do.

There's nothing any of us an do to make the crisis better for them. We can't fix them...they have to do that and that means working thru their crisis at their own speed. If they take ADs, that will help take the edge off the depression, but the depression is still there and again, the crisis' main ingredient is depression. They must work thru the entire crisis to come out the other side. If your h is taking ADs, that's a good thing and it helps him cope w/day-to-day life and work a job.

You already know what I'm going to say, but I'm going to repeat myself again...keep the focus on you. There is no way that any of us can predict what will happen in any situation and your h doesn't know himself at this time. As he works thru his crisis, he will come to realize that you were not the issue of his unhappiness, but he's not there yet and it could take a while for him to get to this point. I would continue to live my life to the fullest and, if and when, he does, come to you to talk about things, I would suggest that you listen and validate. Do not offer any advice unless you are asked. Again, it will happen, but it will be on his time clock, not yours.

[melweb]

Wow--thanks job. That post was good. And timely.

My H knows he is depressed. He has even expressed that he needs to see his Dr. I said that it prob wouldn't hurt/not a bad idea. Hopefully he acts on it and is not just giving it lip service.

Unfortunately, the problem will be, as you stated, that he drinks copious amounts of alcohol. He did tell his Dr that he drinks, but severely underestimated the amount, and even the Dr told him THAT was too much. And I believe his drinking has gone from bad to worse.


(Sorry to hijack HW--some answers just seem to cross-situate. Is that a word?)

[bttrfly]

It's the most wonderful time of the .... whaaaat? oh, it's March you say? hmmm, where did the time go?

God love ya HW xoxoxoxoxo

[HaWho]

Hi all - no worries; I don't consider conversations a takeover as one can never learn too much. I would be reading it anyway on someone else's thread! It's all interesting info.

Well, just a quick post with two interesting things. I forgot to mention that a few weeks back when h and I were discussing logistics about guests coming, one of the things he said was: "whatever 'our' shortcomings" he wanted to do the best for the kids". This was interesting as at BD he told me I was to blame for everything and so there was no point in therapy. Interesting that he saw "our shortcomings." I didn't text anything back.

Here is the second item of interest. I mentioned that I made a nice brunch yesterday. Well, we took the kids and dog up to the park later in the day yesterday and I was talking with a couple I know. H was kind of to the side. The couple offered us some food as they had packed a picnic for the park.

H said: "no thanks. HaWho made an amazing spread this morning." I looked at him and he definitely caught the surprise in my eyes. Plus, I am unfortunately very expression (really bad poker face) so he probably knows I was thinking: "ah haa so you admit you've been ultra critical of me!!" It has been a long time since he has said anything positive about me. The woman said: "awwww" like h was some sort of angel and I wanted to set her straight!! "No, no, don't you be perfuming a pig. He sleeps in a stinky dorm room and we just finished listening to Drummer Boy."

H's irritability started with my cooking. I couldn't do anything right anymore. He went from loving my food to criticizing how I boiled water.

Do you see how sneaky he is though? He compliments in front of another woman so A) he comes out smelling like roses. And B) he kind of "apologizes" in this safe setting where I have to be gracious vs. giving him a truth dart. Plus, I had to quickly mask my "you know at this moment you went crazy criticizing my food look" so he escaped the pain of that, too.

I did feel vindication though.

[BrightFuture]

Job, thank you for addressing my question. I do have some more thoughts on this. I will post on my thread too… Just got back from the vacation home, a bit tired tonight.

HaWho, I have the same kind of bad poker face too, LOL. It is so funny how it played out… Your H making a comment about your "nice" cooking and the woman thinking that he is an “angel”… I would totally want to set her strait too… I’m glad you felt vindicated. We all need this once in a while .

[HaWho]

So a few updates. Day started off great. Went on a long hike before work and ran part of it. I felt grateful that I am not sitting on my hands worrying about my m or my h. I think of Cadet and how he first sends that bit about being given the "gift of time." A year ago I scoffed at that and today I realized it's true! H was going to go crazy no matter what and I could lose myself in it or eat life with a big spoon.

But then the day took a turn for the worse. There are just some really awkward MLC moments. H came out of the dorm room for dinner and said "hello little family." Which is something he used to say. And it just grated on me. I just sat there remembering how he wanted an open marriage and I am just grossed out at being "family" with him. Not very DB I know. But I just feel tons of resentment.

H is talking about calories and losing weight ALL THE TIME. Almost every conversation this week has been of the following variety: how to lose weight, eat less, did you know there are x calories in this, did you know there are y calories in that. He has ordered all new supplements/products. Everyday there is a new package from some vitamin company. Now, whenever I see a UPS driver on our street squinting at addresses, I save the driver his time and flag him right on over. The package is always for h. And I am so bored by this. You may be thinking the weight conversations are hints to me? But I am the same weight I have been for a long time. In fact, I need to gain weight. He is down there now and I can hear him concocting some crazy weight loss meal as I type.

Another awkward moment at dinner. S12 is discussing one of his teachers. He says to h: "remember x teacher?" H: "no?!? Why would I know her?" S12: "you met her at the open house back in September!" Silence.

S12 is trying to figure this out. He can remember that we both came. S12 went off to a children's orientation and h and I went to the adult one. Or, so S12 thinks. When S left, h said to me: "this is going to be soooo boring. I'm going to go to the plaza across the street and hang out." And he walked off like a teen. I missed the visiting personality and was just plain confused as I attended open house by myself while my h, in front of everyone, walked off to the mall. I am sure that had everyone talking.

So now S is trying to figure out how h did not meet this teacher as he saw h there. I wait for h to say something, but am sure h can't remember. So I say: "he didn't go." And there is silence. Very weird.

Meanwhile now S10 has open house tomorrow. He reminds h. H later comes out of the dorm room and in an over the top fashion says: "so open house tomorrow! I can't wait to be there!" I don't say anything.

Tonight I come downstairs after reading with S10 and tucking him in. H is at the printer with his computer. There are green scenic pictures all over the screen. He sees me and he closes that window pronto, and opens it to a blank screen. Seriously?!? His body language is cagey and secretive. I walk into the kitchen and he picks up his computer and he goes back into the dorm room. Closes the door. So stupid.

Later, when I am back upstairs he comes out to print again. I come downstairs and can see that he's printed off several pages. I think they are places he is considering staying as he has now re-booked that trip he cancelled a few weeks ago.

And I do spin. Want to hear the crazy voices in my head? Lots of girls will be on spring break at the time he's traveling. That's probably why he's trying to lose weight! He will be near spring break destinations. Maybe he is going there to hide money in a bank after we sell this rental property? Maybe that's why he postponed the trip in the first place? Maybe he is taking a women there? Or meeting her there? Or maybe he'll just hookup with women when he gets there?

And I just think this is an awful, awful way to live my life. Yes, I can GAL and focus on me but, really this is just awful. The stupid secrecy and all. (I am married to a man who hides behind a closed door!!) Last year this time he went away with his loser Viagra friend. Who knows who his loser companion is this go-around.

How long can I live like this? What kind of dignity is there in this? This is so stupid.

[melweb]

Oh HW It times like this that I wish I knew who you were and where you are. We would so be friends and I would so hug you right now.

This "Why?" question keeps popping up in my sitch too. Not only from my own spinny brain, but from my sisters who really want to come out here and ax murder him. Don't think I don't lay in my bed after a stressful R talk and go "What are you doing, Mel? Why are you fighting for this M? Why am I trying to hand on to a short, chubby, depressed, man?" And he he left out cheating drunk! Cuz H is right about one thing--the M has been crappy for almost 10 years. And 10 years ago I WISHED he'd had an affair so I had a reason to walk, not just 'this marriage $uck$.'

And yet here I am. Here you are. Hanging on for dear life. There must be a reason deep inside your heart and soul that tells you to do that, or you would have let go long ago. For me, its that I need to lay my head down every night and know that I did absolutely everything I could to save this M. That I get to look into my boys' faces in 6 months, 1 year, 10 years, and know that I did the right thing in the face of wrong. That I am not the one that had an A and walked out the door (should he decide to do that), or made him walk out the door.

Maybe there are no tangible reasons at all. Even I have said "No one is more surprised than me that I am trying to save this M. And myself in the process." I can't really explain it. I just KNOW its what I need to do.

And yes it is awful and stupid. And it hurts like H-E-Double Hockey Sticks!!