I'm sorry I didn't respond sooner. Oh, I don't think anyone should tell you that you are lucky you guys don't have kids! I don't think divorce is easier just because you don't have children. I think divorce is a death that just keeps going with no closure until there is and it's horrible with or without kids. It's the death of a relationship that you gave your heart and soul to. My 15-year-old calls it divorce cancer.
In my case, I'm letting myself get out of db'ing because I have a bad habit of trying to "fix" things for them because I can see how shattered they are by the A and D. I just figured this out today. It's really my issue because I can't do that. Begging and pursuing him to reconcile actually makes it worse. I'm glad I now realize that and can attempt to stop.
I can understand how you must feel like there's no opportunity to do any db'ing because there isn't a built-in reason to interact. Without my boys, I don't think my H and I would be speaking or see each other. That must be incredibly difficult to determine if anything is even there. I can see all the damage I've done and mistakes I've made because we have no choice but to communicate. How do you feel like it's going?
M 44 H 46 M 20yrs T 25 yrs S15 S12
ILYBINILWY 7/18/15 Move to MBR 9/8/15 Physical Separation 10/10/15 Suspect A 8/2015 Confirm A 12/27/15 D filed by H 2/2/16
Zues, once again you've brought to light a perspective that I don't give alot of attention to although I know I should. I've thought about his needs, wants and perspective in all this and have come to impasses on it, my latest realization being that this is his journey and all i can do is let him go and find out for himself. I know this and it still doesn't make it any easier. It's not like I'm saying this about an old friend or someone I haven't slept with everyday for the past however many years.
I guess sometimes I just feel too upset and emotional to want to truly understand his perspective. Especially when I see things that make me think he is just walking farther and farther away. Also, I feel like when I do stop and examine his perspective, I actually do begin to empathize with him (from a distance), see where he's coming from and acknowledge it. But then, I feel like if I say these things then he will feel validated in his resolve to leave our M and that too will push him out. So to me, it looks like a win-lose situation: if I defend and disagree, It's destructive to our R and he "loses", yet if I empathize and acknowledge, then I lose. And I don't look at it as if we're competitors per se, this is just what goes on in my mind when I seek to work on understanding his point of view. And this has always been a problem for me throughout our M, which is probably what eroded the safe haven we'd established within each other. He didn't feel safe or supported when he came to b/c instead of empathizing with him, I was setting up to defend myself.
"Be messy and complicated and afraid and show up anyways."
broke, I know you've had a long night/day and I'm happy for you to be coming into realizations about yourself and your situation. I ask everyday that things like that are revealed to me so I know what to work on for myself, to make myself healthy and whole for whatever comes next. I know we've got a similar thing going on but I would encourage you not to give up. And I think the way Zues just put it illustrates it pretty well also:
Originally Posted By: Zues126
In response to the whole "Should I want my M back" or "Should I accept D and move on", the answer is really neither. You don't need to make any decisions today. And even if you did, you would still grieve, you would still have second thoughts either way. And either way, you should be doing the same things. Taking care of yourself. So spare yourself the whole 'making a decision' thing. Instead detach from both outcomes and take care of yourself so you'll be ok regardless.
I try to DB when I interact with H. And as I mentioned before, I've realized that goes as far as indirect interactions to him via friends/family. It's almost as if I have to DB them! And the only ppl that see my true cards are literally 2 people...and myabe my Dad.
I'm so sorry to hear about your boys and the your web your H is attempting to spin. It sounds like you've been doing your absolute best to be a transparent, supportive mom to those boys so please keep up the good work. Amidst all of that, we cannot beg, plead, reason, etc. It took me so long to realize even the way I saw something could be misconstrued as "reasoning," so I would say be open to the realizations that you get because they only serve to help YOU, regardless of the outcome. Of course, easier said than done but I'm almost starting to feel "excited" (using this term very loosely) when I have an epiphany or realization b/c that just means I one step closer to a better me, and that is really what the point of all this is. Why do you find it easier to GAL/Db when you're alone vs with the boys?
"Be messy and complicated and afraid and show up anyways."
You and I are definitely having a similar sitch. Thank you for sharing the quote from Zeus - he really is dead on with the great advice. That needs to be my mantra!
When you said It took me so long to realize even the way I saw something could be misconstrued as "reasoning," so I would say be open to the realizations that you get because they only serve to help YOU, regardless of the outcome that really hits home...My H was so reasonable before he got involved with the OW. From the very beginning of this I was trying to be logical and rational because that is always how we worked out our issues before. So, it has been very difficult to change our dynamic after 20 years because there is absolutely no reasoning with someone who is in "affair fog". Really great advice!
About the kids and db'ing - I know I am not the perfect mom, but I do know I am a really great one and that led to some of the issues my H and I are having now. I put the kids ahead of him and it was definitely my mistake - he should've been a priority, too and I didn't make him feel like one. Looking back at all the times in the past 7 months that I "begged, pleaded and pursued", it was after an episode one of the boys had being emotional about the A or D. As their mom, I like to "fix" things when they are broken for them and I have struggled with that in the past. Unfortunately, I cannot fix this divorce anymore than I should fix other things for them in their path. It's just a pattern I was able to see when my S was telling me about being bullied at school, it immediately set me off when my H didn't make it a priority when I thought he should. I need to stop reacting emotionally right away, step back and be thoughtful about my plans and strategize. That needs to start happening in my db'ing and when the kids or I are faced with difficulties. So, thanks for the good advice to try and db all the family and friends, too. What a great way to practice and I am so sick of talking about it anyway. I want to detach from all that drama and be "normal" with them again sometimes! I am seeing family this weekend and I am definitely going to try it!
M 44 H 46 M 20yrs T 25 yrs S15 S12
ILYBINILWY 7/18/15 Move to MBR 9/8/15 Physical Separation 10/10/15 Suspect A 8/2015 Confirm A 12/27/15 D filed by H 2/2/16
Yes, I had to remind myself of the elusive affair fog a few times in the past 48hrs. I just can't believe my H is still in this fog. Which makes me wonder if it is a fog at all. And I think I saw somewhere on your thread that judging from your H's email, he must've read DB/DR b/c he's got it down pat! It's like the DBing is reversed! I've had that thought about my H's responses to me also and how it seems he's read every M saving piece of writing out there b/c it seems like it follows it all...but he hasn't and he doesn't have the same goal as me. Which also makes me wonder, if I react this way to his "perfect" yet indirect DBing, then imagine if I could interact simply with acknowledgment and no emotion....radical idea.
"Be messy and complicated and afraid and show up anyways."
broke and Hope, (btw that almost sums up my life right now, LOL), I keep thinking my own H is DBing ME but with a different goal, as well!
He has detachment DOWN PAT. He validates my feelings without agreeing with me PERFECTLY. And only contacts me when necessary. Except when he's out having fun on weekends and runs into me...that's the only part that doesn't fit. I have my theories on that, though.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Oh, I completely agree. My H seems like he could've written the db'ing handbook. He is completely detached, going to counseling for himself (180 - I begged for counseling for years to make our "good" marriage even better), GAL'ing by working out, running 5k's and has an OW. He has always been good at validating and he only contacts me about the kids. We never run into each other anywhere. It is really too bad he has no desire to reconcile because with the two of us working on our own stuff, we might actually be able to have a great "remarriage" :-)
Ciluzen - what is your theory about running into your H on the weekends? That's interesting....
M 44 H 46 M 20yrs T 25 yrs S15 S12
ILYBINILWY 7/18/15 Move to MBR 9/8/15 Physical Separation 10/10/15 Suspect A 8/2015 Confirm A 12/27/15 D filed by H 2/2/16
Just a note....my counselor said the affair fog could be 1-2 years until the infatuation wears off and reality sets in. My H's best friend cheated on his wife for 2 years until she found out. They are now in MC and it looks like he is moving back in soon and they are reconciling. I sometimes wonder if it is because his affair ran it's course.
I don't plan on waiting around for 1-2 years waiting for the affair log to lift though. I am trying hard to really detach and not "fake" it anymore. I know that will take some time, but I want my db'ing to be as much about me as the hope for future reconciliation and then move completely to be the best "me" I can be. I think I was a pretty good catch before. With all the great advice I am getting on here, I think I can really be aware of when I am slipping into past mistakes and be a better wife (girlfriend and mom, too) for wherever my future takes me. I don't plan on wasting this opportunity to become a better "me".
M 44 H 46 M 20yrs T 25 yrs S15 S12
ILYBINILWY 7/18/15 Move to MBR 9/8/15 Physical Separation 10/10/15 Suspect A 8/2015 Confirm A 12/27/15 D filed by H 2/2/16
Hit submit too soon b/c I hate even writing those words. The last time I saw him was the night he came home to tell me he wanted a D. The last thing I saw was him grabbing his coat in a hurry and turning his back to me as he walked from our apartment. I called, "[H's Name], what are you doing?!" and he simply put his hand up as if to dismiss me and kept walking away. Didn't even look back at me. Haven't seen him since.
"Be messy and complicated and afraid and show up anyways."
