1st time - Do I detach or keep showing her my best

[Squiggy]

Hope sandi doesn't get mad at me for replying to this...

I am choosing to fight for my M until she says she absolutely is done.

Change to "I am choosing to fight for my M until I say I am absolutely done.

I think possibly she's starting to see all the damage she has caused.

Mindreading. Stop it. My W, even after 6 months in Piecing, is still learning how far the damage reached.

I just wish I had a specific road map of things I need to do. What are things that will help and what are things that push her away? I hate being a mind reader. Does backing off mean not doing the daily nice things I do like make her lunch or get her water bottle ready, start her car. Tell her to go take a bath while I get the kids to bed? I know she appreciates that stuff and she says it. But is it hurting my cause?

You have the map. We keep showing it to you. The book shows it to you.

Is backing off a 180? Is making her lunch or getting a water bottle a 180? Are any of those things you listed 180s? Are they what you've always done? Or are they attempts to garner her favor?

[TxHubby]

I am venting today because I keep hearing all the things I can do to win her love back and to be more attractive... but I did't have the A. I have to act happy and confident when I don't feel either of those things. Some days I am strong, but today I feel exhausted. Why do I feel like I am having to do the lions share of the work?

Honestly, because that is the philosophy of this program. There are others that are just as successful where it is up to the wayward spouse to do the heavy lifting, not the betrayed spouse.

At the end of the day as a betrayed spouse wanting your cheating spouse back with you, you'll have to get used to eating HUGE sh*t sandwiches, developing a love for them, and always asking for second helpings. That's just the plain truth of it. You've been betrayed as badly as a human being can be betrayed by another human being and what makes it so bad is that the betrayal was committed by the person closest to you in this life. I know the pain. I've been there. I think it would be so much easier to tell a WW to go to hell and move on with your life. Unfortunately for us chumps we love our WW's and want them back. I know I did/do.

Just know that I 100% understand exactly the position you're in. Does it seem unfair? Oh hell yes it does. You have to decide if it's worth it. I know this. You're going to be fine either way you decide. I chose to eat all the sh*t sandwiches and work it out with my cheater. I love her. I really do. A few years later are we back to what we had? Nope, and we never will be. It's a new R and I'm trying to figure out how to make it great, or walk away from it if it comes to that. If I could go back in time would I choose the path I did? I don't think so. I put myself through hell trying to win a cheater back. It wasn't until I quit and took myself out of the competition for her heart that she snapped out of it and came back. It took so much life out of me. So much. If I knew then what I know now I would have walked away clean, got drunk for a month, then moved on with my life.

You have to do the soul searching. We can't tell you what to do. This is your life to live how you wish. Don't make any of these life decisions based on what your wife wants or what anyone else wants. It has to be what you really truly want.

[GoodDad]

What was the Valentine's idea?

My W has contacted me several times today about normal things. One being our plans on the way back from spring break, where we should stop. Just upbeat, normal conversation. I think this is her way of trying.

These are good things right? Planning our trip... her talking upbeat and positive?

I have been backing off for probably 2 months. Unfortunately the A was still going on for part of that. I am seeing her warming up to me. I just wish I didn't feel so guarded and have angry conversations in my head with her. I know that can't be healthy.

[Squiggy]

Valentine's idea was to keep it low-key and family-oriented.

Tx, Good - For me it when it came down to brass tacks was unconditional love for my W. She hurt me deeply, more than anyone else. She did something I never pictured. (Insert the rest of the LBS script here, because it's true) And I experienced the feelings the same as all of us here. However, unconditional love is what won the day for me. It carried me through the hard times when I wanted to throw the A in her face when she acted scared to return to the MR or when she got angry with me. I wanted to push my hard-earned insight into the situation on her without allowing her to gain it on her own as I had to. Wonka's STFU smoothies were on tap, and I had Tx's sh*t sandwiches in my lunch box. But that was all my choice. We each have our own to make.

Good, you will feel guarded and angry. This too shall pass regardless of the outcome. As always, allow yourself to feel those feelings, then put them away for a while and get back to work.

[GoodDad]

I've been looking to change my diet anyway. Some STFU smoothies and Sh*t sandwiches seem like the right call right about now. If nothing else this will be a good lesson in patience for me. I too love my wife unconditionally and I'm hoping at some point... even if it takes years, that she will appreciate that fact.

[J5K]

GoodDad,

I am in the same sitch. I am eating the sandwiches and drinking the same smoothies. I only know of EAs with my W but today she stated she wants to reconcile.

Who knows where that will lead but we all have a lot of work ahead of us and time is what will heal all wounds.

If our Ws take the same actions again, at least we will be stronger individuals and true to ourselves and it will be much easier for us to let them go.

[TxHubby]

I've been looking to change my diet anyway. Some STFU smoothies and Sh*t sandwiches seem like the right call right about now. If nothing else this will be a good lesson in patience for me. I too love my wife unconditionally and I'm hoping at some point... even if it takes years, that she will appreciate that fact.

Don't forget to do some throat exercises so you'll be able to swallow your pride easily. I forgot to post that before but that's a huge one too. Sometimes that's really hard but pride can ruin everything. Sometimes you have to drink your STFU smoothie, eat the sh*t sandwich, then open up and swallow that pride.

Is it worth it? That's a question each of us has to answer for themselves. If you struggle following those steps just remember it's temporary and to keep your eyes on the prize.

[sandi2]

When you check her phone and emails, do you do it in front of her? Does she understand the importance of being transparent when the A ends? And btw, this is not something that will have to be done from here on out, but neither should there be any secrets. She needs to do it, at least, until she's completely through withdrawals, and I'd add some extra time onto it.

You may be confused about where you are b/c of the advice you read on other threads, IDK. Most of the advice is for the LBS who has not reached the point of piecing their MR back together. Keep that in mind. You are in a fragile place in the road. She has not stabilized just yet, however, she's apparently doing well.

I don't want to give anyone a heart attack, so again, anyone reading this needs to understand that your W has ended the A and so far, is working with you to piece the M back together.

Not sure what you mean by doing "the" 180, if you are referring to the technique or if you only have one 180 that you are doing. I would say to continue to 180 any bad habits or behaviors as you continue to improve yourself. Also, you can't jump back into the R all at one time (the way you were before everything happened), b/c it would be too much for her to handle.

You can also work your 180's into goals to set for yourself, as you strive to become a better man. Little by little, you can set goals to be a better H, as well. Right now, you need to be cautious not to pressure her.

I may have already mentioned some of this, so bear with me. Until she gets through the withdrawals, do not initiate sex. Don't initiate talking about sex. Don't hint about it. If she does, then fine, but let her lead so that she doesn't feel pressured. Most WW's need that time to emotionally adjust back into being intimate with the H. Most WW's think their feelings for the LBH'S will not return. So, don't rush her in this area, or she may get skiddish and run.

I would say that you can show a little more friendliness, engage in a little more conversation. Be careful you don't start firing a lot of questions about what she did throughout the day. You don't want her to feel she's under interrogation. Talk about other things and don't try to play counselor with her. Unless she initiates it, I suggest you keep things light. It is a delicate balance, for sure!

Give her breathing space. However, it may not be a good idea to leave her alone for an entire weekend, at this time, due to the withdrawals. Being a,one too much could prove too much eight now. She needs to stay occupied and involved, even with you, to a degree, while she is going through withdrawals. Again, please be careful and don't over do, or she'll feel that you are acting like a watch dog. Your biggest challenge, I would guess, is you wanting to rush things along and push her. You want to fix her problems. Don't do it, or she will feel overwhelmed.

Let me say this about playing Mr. Fixer. No woman wants her H to fix her. Make that double for a WW. And whenever a woman is complaining about her day, her girlfriends, her boss/job, etc..........she just wants to be heard. It is not a clue that she wants you to fix things. The only time you should try to fix it, is if her complaints are about you.

As for saying what you want, are you talking what you want to see happen in the relationship? To me, that would be pushing, and way too early. She is not stable enough to deal with what you want, at the moment. It is taking everything she has to get through the withdrawals and getting her act together. It is so much more than just ending the A.

I would love for her to write me some kind of letter... put some thoughts on paper... apology, feelings, doubts, concerns, hopes, dreams... anything.. I just want her to think about those things.

I don't think she's emotionally ready to do anything like that.

I would love for her to reengage in our family life, instead of being so detached

.

I am sure you would, but you are expecting way too much from a woman who just ended her A four weeks ago. She is dealing with internal struggles. She is depressed. Give her time.

My counselor seems to think just giving her time and space will help her. But he also says it's a delicate balance where she still needs to know I love her. Seems simple enough. ugh.

I agree, except instead of saying she needs to know you love her, I would say she needs support. B/c if you try to show her how much you love her, then you'll probably be saying it or trying to be too affectionate. That would be putting emotional pressure on her.

So if she is saying postive things... Saying she wants our marriage... but nothing real specific... can I ask something of her? I would love to do some bonding activities but she might not be ready. Can I express that to her... Hey, I love what you are doing and that is enough for now, but when you are ready I would like to try some things to get us closer? IDK what to do

.

No, don't go there. It way too much right now. Don't overkill on the ILY. I cannot express enough that she needs more time. Be patient. Don't make it about what you want right now. She can't handle it.

Number 1 thing I know I need to do is relax and focus on me... I get that. I am trying. But is that enough for now? I hate that I feel like I'm playing a game. I love my wife. I would do anything for her. Why does it have to be so complicated? Ugh.

I assure you it is no game for her. She has undergone a very emotional turmoil, as well as you. The difference is she thought she had fell out of love with you and in love with OM, then she is trying to will herself not to feel in love with OM and feel in love with the man she fell out of love with in the first place. And you wonder why it has to be so complicated?

[Squiggy]

GoodDad,

You now have solid advice from both reconciled LBHs AND a reconciled, former WAW. You were reaching for a plan. Do you think you have one now?

Keep posting. If you feel as though you have a question or are wanting to act on something, check in here for advice. I can't tell the impact that had on me during R. Go slow for your little birdie and your precious children.

[Flight]

I don't know why I didn't think of this before. People talk about the 180 and about how to get their spouse back. The most accurate word is to "draw" your spouse back to you. You aren't pulling, they are attracted back on their own.

There was this story a long time ago I heard on NPR. Farmers were destroying the rain forest at an alarming rate in order to grow their food. And as they planted the same crops, over and over, in the same plot, they depleted the soil and had to cut down more trees in order to have new farmland. It was a vicious cycle.

Charity organizations came in and tried to educate the natives on how to properly rotate crops in the soil and use organic fertilizers. They tried to work with the local chiefs and witch doctors. Nothing they did worked. The people were reluctant to change.

So one of the foreign workers decided to go into comptetition with the native farmers. He quietly setup his farm and would go every week to local farm supply to get his supplies. He grew his crops and when they were harvested and sold, he planted different crops that would replenish the soil. He did all this without saying anything unless someone came to visit and wondered how he was doing what he was doing. After a while, the other farmers and leaders noticed that with his small plot of land, he was constantly out-producing them with less effort. After a while, they came to HIM to find out how they could do the same thing. He drew them towards him by example. I think the 180 is similar.