Hello to all… First time poster… I tried this a while back in another forum and got blasted with negativity so I never went back.
Here’s my story… married for 12 years. 3 great kids… 10 and younger… Thought I had the perfect life. Always thought my wife could try harder, but loved her regardless. I was always proud of her and felt lucky to be with her. I had a rough summer, very frustrated with her lack of affection. We seem to be the exact opposite of most cases where the man doesn’t do anything with the kids, around the house, or show his wife love. I do everything with my kids and do everything a guy should do for his wife.
Anyway, I became pretty angry this summer due to the lack of attention and took most of my anger out on the kids (I’m still sick about that). By the end of the summer I found out she had met someone at a concert and kept in contact. They met up once after. After some time she told me it was over. I trusted her and began picking up the pieces of my life. A couple months later I found they were still in contact (He lives 4 hours away). That was about a month ago. She swears it’s over now and wants to save our marriage. She gave me access to phone records and other things. I started checking but that will drive me crazy. I contacted him and he apologized and swore he would never contact her again. She seems sincere. She is going to counseling as an individual and as a couple. She tells me every day she loves me and other small efforts that weren’t there in the past.
Here’s part of the problem. I push. I am needy. But I wasn’t always this way and I am working hard to not be. I used to be confident and independent. But she pulled away after we had kids so I became in secure and pushed and pushed. I just wanted to make her happy. Her personality is challenging. She had a real rough childhood. Her mom has been married 3 times and has had several other long term boyfriends. Her dad died young in a plane crash. But this hasn’t stopped my wife from having a successful career. Yet , I don’t think she ever experienced an example of a healthy relationship. Plus my wife [censored] at showing emotion. She is not in touch with her feelings at all. She has huge walls up. She spends a lot of time shopping to fill a void in her life and spends lots of time on Facebook and Pintrest. She has pulled away from me and the kids (even though she denies this adamantly), needing space.
Deep down I believe she is a good person. She’s a great, loving mother when she is present. I believe she wants to do the right thing. I believe she wants our marriage and our life. I just think she has no idea how to be in a relationship and has no real direction in her life. She wants to be magically happy. She wants things we can’t afford. I think her unhappiness in our marriage is really unhappiness with her life, and lack of meaning it has. For the last few years she has invested very little into our marriage so she has gotten very little out of it. She has never said she wants out. She has always said she loves me. She said she doesn’t know why it happened and never had any plans of leaving me and only sees a life with me.
I will take some responsibility for pushing her away. I always thought I wanted/needed more physical intimacy. Now I realize I just wanted to feel loved.
I do everything around the house. She doesn’t sit on her butt ever, but she does things that are of no real consequence. I do so much with the kids… because I like to. Like I said, I was in a bad place… and not a happy person for a while… but for most of our marriage I have been an outstanding husband and father. I can now I see how foolish I was this past summer and I am doing all that I can to make quality time with my kids. I think she is seeing the changes and likes them, but is still acting like once I’m the right person she will be back in love with me. Like all that needs to be done is me changing.
I’ve read a dozen books. I just started the Divorce Remedy this week. I wish I started with this book. I realize I’ve been doing the same thing for years and it hasn’t worked. I need to try something new. If you spent a day in our house you wouldn’t think we have issues. We get a long great. Her biggest hangup is she has lost passion for me. She feels I’m not a confident guy anymore. When I am around her this is true because I feel so defeated. Anywhere else I am confident in myself. She felt passion for the other guy and misses that and is scared we can never have it. I try to explain we can have that if she acts passionately to me. IF she gave our marriage half the effort she gave to the other guy she would feel it again. She’s amazingly stubborn. But I swear when she is at her best there is no one better. The last few months it’s like she was replaced with someone else. She has alienated long time friends and family. Everyone is wondering what is going on with her. Everyone, including her will say I am a GREAT husband. It’s like it’s a mid life crisis.
So here is where I am at… things are slowly getting better… I have hope… but I still don’t think she is 100% sold that it can get better. She still gets annoyed with things like me reading all kinds of marriage books when she has yet to read one. I just want her to try harder, to do something. I started the 40 day love dare a couple weeks ago… but now I’m thinking I’d be better off doing the 180 and leaving her alone, backing way off. The problem is there isn’t an ounce of jerk in me. I know I need to get more of my own life, but with her pulling away from the kids I feel like I need to be there for them. I coach my kids’ teams and I am busy with other activities, so I just want to be home with my kids when I am not working. I have no desire to go out to the bar with buddies. I quit drinking because of the meds I’m on. I’m finding a new connection in my faith… I just want my wife back. I want it to hit her… like hey… if I want to be happily married I have to bring happiness to the marriage… if I want to feel passion I have to act passionately… I want her to invest into our marriage and our family so she can realize that is how you get the feelings you want.
So I’m looking for advice. I think I am at the point where I need to try something different. I think I need to back away. But how do I do that without being seen as a jerk, especially when the new happy me seems to be making slow progress.
Feel free to offer insight or ask questions. Sorry this was a jumbled mess… kind of reflects my mind right now.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Let me be among the first to welcome you to our community. There are wonderful people here that are experiencing similar issues and they will be along to support you.
I can relate, in part, to your wife. Although, I did not have a childhood like she experienced, I think anyone can go through what she is feeling right now. My husband and I had been married for many years and life had taken its toll on our family. I had been very unhappy with him for a long time, and my feelings shut down. I met OM on line and began an Internet affair that almost led me to destroying my marriage. However, I stumbled my way to the DB board one night, and I received extremely good advice. It was a huge part in guiding me in savingq myself and my marriage. I have been here since 2007 in trying to pay forward the help I received.
Your wife is probably very depressed, which is natural coming out of any kind of an affair. Emotional affairs are highly addictive. I give her credit for being transparent in her phone/computer activity and seeking help with a counselor. Your part will not be easy, either. It takes so much patient on the part of the betrayed husband. And, the more understanding you have about these matters, the better you will be equipped to getting the relationship back on track.
I can only imagine a little girl growing up like she did, and how she would learn very early to guard her emotions. From your standpoint, you are probably looking for some sign, some emotion from her that will show hope. At the moment, it is taking all she has to just get through the withdrawal period from her affair. It is as strong as getting off some drug addiction. The hardest period for her will be while she's going through the withdrawal. When I was going through it, I often felt like I had died and only my body was walking around.....and surely my soul had already left. I felt nothing but a huge void.
It was very hard on my husband, b/c like you, he wanted to see me putting effort back not the marriage relationship. I, on the other hand, had been what we call a wayward wife, and it was not something that could or would snap back immediately. I tell you this, not to discourage you but to arm you with the information my husband did not have. He became very depressed when he did not see me trying harder to be the woman I once had been. I want you to know that it takes a long time for her to get through this depression, deal with the feelings of the affair, and the why she isn't feeling much for you at the moment.
One reason she isn't experiencing any passion for you is b/c she has to get over the emotions for the OM. Although the affair is over, her feelings cannot switch over so quickly. Women don't love (sexual love/desire) but one man at a time. That's how she's made. So she has to get rid of all traces of the feelings she had for him. And the hardest part of those "feelings" for him....was pure fantasy. I have no doubt that she had built this up in her mind to be the answer to all her dreams, and all her problems. He was going to be her prince. To give up that fantasy is very hard, and draining, and depressing.
You may think I am presumptuous about someone I don't even know. Truthfully, all wayward wives (WW) have similar symptoms, just like some diseases can be diagnosed by their symptoms. Waywardness is not a disease, however, when it really takes over a person's life, you wonder if some alien has replaced the wife you knew.
It is very, very similar to a midlife crisis. I think many people have labeled their spouse as having a MLC, when actually, they were wayward. It seems easier for some people to accept the idea that it's a MLC. Anyway, you will see the majority here in newcomers have a wayward spouse. Most of the husbands are the nice-guy types, which I find interesting, but more on that subject later.
So, make yourself acquainted with the board and the folks who practically here. And please read those links Cadet gave you. They are very important for a newcomer. Feel free to ask questions. Most of all, read Divorce Remedy to get the principles behind this board.
I hope you will post often, b/c that's what it takes to get more responses. Oh, and don't worry, everyone doesn't post as long as I do.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thank you for your response... I am sure she has feelings for the OM... I believe she loves me and chooses me, but I'm not sure if she can let go of those feelings and if she can it won't be easy. I think I have handled this very maturely and even empathized with her. I want to help her, but know it's up to her. I'm not trying to toot my own horn but my counselor and pastor have both told me I have handled this with more grace and understanding than a normal person would. I'm not a saint or a hero... I do love my wife and still see so much good in her. We still have so much good time together right now. I am making progress by being the best individual I can be, but it's slow. I am ok with that. I am considering the detach idea. But it's tough to find things to do or GAL when I feel like my kids need me most, since she is so distant right now. I agree that she built the guy up to be a perfect guy in her mind. He is married too and has 3 small kids... I'm guessing she's not envisioning a mixed family vacation with 6 kids in tow. Plus if he is cheating on his wife is he really that perfect of a guy? The hardest part is I want things... I want an apology.. I want her begging me to take her back. I want her swearing she will be the best wife ever... but I know those things won't happen. Or at least right now.
I am settling in for the long haul. My 3 kids are worth the effort, but even without them I think we have something great worth fighting for. She knows it too, but also knows she's in a bad place. Your comparison to addiction is the closest I can compare it to.
I am finding strength in God, knowing that I am going to be fine no matter what. I have a lot going for me. I have wonderful children. I have supportive friends and family. So I will be happy again some day. I would just rather it be with the person I chose to marry.
How long did it take for you to get over the other man? If you ever did? Did you get it back for your husband?
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
You are so smart to recognize that you have been needy and pushy. Her lack of attention probably made you more needy and more pushy, which made her want to give you even less attention. It is a vicious cycle.
You are at a very fragile point in this relationship and it would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004
A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.
Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
The recovery stage is not fun for either of you. Stay focused on the knowledge that it will get better. Right now, her feelings for him are not the real deal. However, you can't afford to tell her how or what she feels, not unless you want a flogging. No woman appreciates a man who tries to tell her how she really feels.
It sounds as if you are trying, and it is great that you have others to support you. I'm sure your W does have a lot of good in her. Having an affair does not make a person bad, it just shows us how imperfect and vulnerable we are. I do encourage you to not make any references to yourself and how you have been good throughout all of this. Not that you have said that to her, but she still has traces of waywardness in her mindset (probably) and it may still be easy to spark some resentment. I remember seeing in my own husband, and some left behind husbands on the board, who had a twinge of self-righteousness, in my viewpoint. It doesn't mean that they did, or that you do........it just means that that is easy for the WW to think she sees about others.
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We still have so much good time together right now.
That's very important, too. Keeping her as preoccupied as you can, will help her get over the affects of the affair quicker. Of course, you don't want to smother her with your presence, either. There will be times that she will need some space. The period and actions that you take during the piecing back the relationship is not the same as when she was not trying to work with you to save the M. Although there may not be too much outward appearances of effort on her part, I think she's doing about all she can at the moment. Her biggest and hardest work right now is internal. Afterwards, she will be able, hopefully, to put more energy into the external.
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The hardest part is I want things... I want an apology.. I want her begging me to take her back. I want her swearing she will be the best wife ever... but I know those things won't happen. Or at least right now.
Sure you do! Every husband wants it, but I doubt you will get it anytime soon. Well, you might, but really, her waiting means that when she does tell you.......it will probably be authentic. You see, it takes time for the WW to reach the place where she feels true remorse. I'm sure that could sound outrageous to a faithful H, but she has to go through a process that only time will produce. Time, and her putting effort into trying to find herself again. Every WW I have read about has a sense of justification, based on the resentment toward her H and whatever has happened in her past. It is to the degree that she is not capable of just swallowing it and getting her act together in just a few weeks. I mean, some wives may pretend and say all the right words, however, I think most won't. They have too much negative things going on internally. It is comparable to drowning and saving yourself before you can think about saving the other person. You are essentially wanting her to save you from drowning, and she can't b/c she's trying to save herself, first. That may not be a good illustration, but it's all I have at the moment. I guess what I am saying is that I understand what you are saying you need. I get it. I am saying that you have to take care of yourself and get encouragement from others, b/c she can't take care of your needs right now. You probably think, "Yes she can. All she has to do is say she's sorry". But for her, it is much more complicated. I can't explain it all in a few posts, but maybe you will learn enough about the mindset of a WW that it will help you to hold on a while longer. It took me a long time before I could go to my H, broken hearted for the damage I had caused. It took a long time for me to let go of my resentment of what he had done in our MR.
Btw, I have about five threads on the subject of WW's, if you want to read them. Go to Sandi's 37 Rules, and the first link is at the bottom of the rules. It is also listed in Cadets first post.
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I am settling in for the long haul. My 3 kids are worth the effort, but even without them I think we have something great worth fighting for. She knows it too, but also knows she's in a bad place. Your comparison to addiction is the closest I can compare it to.
That is the way to think, and you will make it. You both will make it.
How ,ong did it take for me to get over the OM? I'm not sure. It is hard to explain. Whatever it was I felt for him didn't last that long. However, the addictive lure ate at me. I wanted the thrill. The OM had been my ego food. That's what I really craved! He wasn't even my type. But he would say all the right things to make me feel special. He gave me the attention I had not received in a long time. To turn my back on that and say. "No more",was hard. I had so many other issues I was dealing with, different perhaps from your W......but a WW has issues "before" the affair ever happens. Remember that part. Anyway, the first couple of months were really tough. It seems like it was about six months of no contact of any kind with the OM, and me coming here to the board every night until I couldn't keep my eyes open, before I could begin to feel somewhat like a human being again. But you can't base her length of time against mine. I just try to tell LBH'S that it takes longer than they think it will. She has a lot to do to get her stuff together before she can do much about the MR. Please, please, do not take this as discouragement. I don't beat around the bush when I give information. It is not to pull you down, but to prepare you by giving you this information.......and telling you that your M can be saved. Yes, my M was saved and we are still together. I will not lie and tell you it is quick and easy. It is not. It will be the hardest thing you've ever gone through, but you can make it. You believe in God, and you can get your strength from Him. Keep your eyes on Him.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I greatly appreciate your advice. It's good to get the perspective from the other side. I know this is going to take time. I know everyone really thinks there marriage is special, but we really had/have something good. No one would say they saw this coming. I adore my wife. She knows that. I have been thinking about something recently... the fact that I have said I am needy. The only thing I have ever needed was to feel love and respected. I was pushing for more intimacy for a while, but other than that I ask for nothing. I do more than my share of work around the house and with the kids. She constantly needs my assistance on things. I am glad to help her whenever I can and do anything she asks. I just thought that's how marriages work. She has said she needs space... but I would challenge her to find any mother of 3 kids who gets more time out of the house away from the kids than she does. Even her friends can see this. I have pointed out what a great husband I am. I won't anymore, but I wanted her to know all that I do. I really think she has built up negative things in her mind that aren't there in real life.
Even now... she came back from counseling last night and said she told the counselor how I am doing so much better at giving her space... super... when are you going to talk about why you need space instead of reengaging with your family and husband?
I get this is a hard time for her, but part of me feels like she made this mess. She has some issues that are not related to our marriage and I think they are at the heart of the problem. The problem isn't me smothering or being needy. That came long after she started pulling away. She doesn't have many close friends. Her mom and brother approach relationships the same way. They have very few close friends. Her mom has one friend at most. They just don't get the idea that you get out of relationships what you put into them. They want to blame others for their faults. I am sure I have had some fault in this, but most of it has nothing to do with our marriage in my opinion. It's childhood attachment issues and trust, intimacy issues. And I'm not sure her current counselor is getting anywhere. She's all about feelings and letting my W set the pace and tone. I really want to go to one of her sessions with her and bring up some things. She tells everyone I am a great husband. Does she feel like she is a great wife? She says I smother her... can she think of another mom who gets more away time? She says she doesn't have a shopping problem... 30 G in credit card debt isn't a problem. She says I'm needy... I ask for nothing from her in day to day activity and create time for her to get out or take a bath or work out... She never does that for me. I never complain.
Ok... that was a lot of venting... right now things feel good. I don't think completely detaching is the best call right now since it seems like things are getting better. I am going to back way off though. I will only say I love you in response to her saying it. I will not reach out for contact, but will respond if she does. I will not bring up any conversation about our issues, but I will talk about it if she wants to, trying to say as little as possible (which is tough for me). I will give her all the space she needs, but be the best dad and most positive person I can be around her. Does that sound like a good plan? Feel free to make suggestions.
I made this jar of question strips. We were doing it for several nights and it was going well. But then I thought it was me forcing her to do something so I didn't do it 2 nights ago. I wasn't planning on doing it last night. But then she asked if we could do it. It's crazy how much we are learning about each other through it. We lay in bed and answer the questions... one for each of us and one we both answer... I might ask her if we can start looking at each other when we talk about them. Is that weird?
She is trying I think. But I don't think she realizes how bad it hurts when she says I'm going to meet a friend for an hour and then comes home 2 hours later. I know she was with her friend (because I asked her husband), but that stuff hurts. Or when she goes shopping for 3 hours to get a break. The good news is I am really making up for a crabby summer with my kids with tons of great activities... I'm super dad right now and I'm loving it.
I'm not quitting. I don't think she is either. It's just at some point I hope the problems we are addressing are the real problems rather than what my "issues" are. There is something deep inside of her that is causing her to detach from her life at times. That is what needs to be fixed.
Am I wrong in thinking that instead of her pulling away and taking breaks that reengaging might help her more. Especially with the kids. Forget what she thinks about me at this point... do some fun stuff with the kids and maybe she will start getting good feelings.
Being a mother of 3 kids is not easy. It takes work... but anyone who gives it their all knows that the rewards out weigh the hardships... I just wish she could give it a go.
It's just at some point I hope the problems we are addressing are the real problems rather than what my "issues" are. There is something deep inside of her that is causing her to detach from her life at times. That is what needs to be fixed.
This may be true however YOU didnt break her and YOU can not FIX her. She has to FIX herself, giving her space is taking the FOCUS off of YOU and she either will look at herself or not.
LET GO - you can not speed this up but you can slow it down by holding on and begging, pleading, bargaining, and pursuing.
Things are going pretty well right now. Lots of positive and she seems to be slowly coming around. She seems happier with the kids and more positive with me. Maybe it's fake at times, but that's okay knowing she is trying to be positive.
I am backing off on several things... but do I try to goals part of the DR program or wait? She might be open to them. She might not. Here are my goals... let me know what you think? 1. Write me a letter... of any kid, apology, complaint, feelings about us, thoughts on the future, things you like and dislike about us, a plan for moving forward... just put some thoughts in writing for me.
2. Participate in a family activity 2 times a week. Playing games, going skiing, an art project, reading a book...
3. Pray with me once in a while... nit every night but once in a while (we are not holy roller type so this will be awkward to start, but we both were raised going to church and both feel God has to be a bigger part of our life moving forward)
Thoughts on those goals?
Also, I started the 40 day love dare and I am on day 15... Do I stop doing that... I love the readings and wish she could read them too. I will continue to read it at the very least. But should I keep doing the dares... or maybe keep doing the dares unless they seem like they would be too pushy for her at this point?
Would it help her to read about WWS? Maybe I could get my pastor to give her info on it. Coming from me it would be bad. Would it help her to be aware of that?
I wish Sandi2 or others who have been through what she has could talk to her and offer her help from personal experience. She is almost insisting on getting through this on her own.
