do nothing or what

[roist]

Thanks Z,

Guess we were typing together.

The stuff there is stuff I think could be said,bbut I just wanted voice back.

Your idea is good but I am not sure. It would have to be cheap and cheerful.We were at neighbours house recently and had fun. Just the two of us having fun together....i'll have to try remember that! Enough said!

My W has never EVER verbalised her stance/opinion. So she will either
agree to or not. Early on I made more effort and she usually did whatever I suggested. But it is half hearted. I have learned that actions speak loader than words. But assumption is the mother of all the greatest fuch ups.

Thanks again.

[roist]

Yes Z I am sure that the resentment and pain do seep through.I am aware of this and block it as much as possible. I am usually calm, polite and light.

Recently I am trying to give her more space without being cold about it. Space and time. This is probably as much for me as her.

At least one evening per week I have either worked late or gone back to work after kids go to bed. I have gone out with friends. I have done sport with friends. And I do stuff alone with sons. Apart when sons involved she never asks anything or even mentions it. Other evenings I do paperwork or sport in our basement .

I am in the process of divorcing my couch! I am still available but not as much. But I am finished looking at BS on TV just to do something together
and I am finished sitting there in silence. To be fair she does break the silence but about stuff that doesn't develope. I am convinced she doesn't want to speak to me but there are the tiniest indications she might.

She is emotionally closed to me. She is job hunting but u don't even know if it is to compliment her part time job or to change it. Just goes to show where we are at.

Anyway getting sidetracked again but I guess I needed to let it out.

[mutatio]

roiste, I am right there with you brother. I suffer the stalemate of silence. I live with it because it is easier then talking to a wall. I am planning my future and it is the only thing I really think about. Taking my classes to improve my skills and looking at real estate sites for a place to build a house. I work on myself and my relationship with my kids. I can't push a rope, she prefers to be in a different room then me. We didn't fight, she just decided a year ago she doesn't love me and does not want to work on it.

I wish I had advice and could provide a solution for your situation. I am reminded of the adage "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink", this is where we are in our marriages. Enlightening her on the points you referenced in the earlier post are not going to do much to change her mind about your marriage. I think they'll do more for you then her.

All we have are our actions. We must display strength, loving kindness and compassion. If they see us living well, being a great parent, treating them well, they may reconsider their position, lower their guard, second guess their resolve and open up to us. For love to flourish and grow we have to tend the garden. Good soil (our home life), water (our behavior) and plenty of sunshine (our loving kindness) is what we must provide as our wife's stabilize and recover from their emotional struggle.

roiste, all we can do is be the best person we can be. Sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes the bear eats you. Be well roiste, be strong, peace brother

[roist]

Thanks mut,

I post on your thread more than my own because mostly I don't need to post and secondly I relate to your pain/situation.

Yeah I probably should have stated that the list of stuff to tell W is not about her. It is stuff I sometimes have the urge to say. I in no way except it to save my M. Maybe my opening up could help her do too but that is not my reasoning.

There is so much I would like to say to W and I thought those parts were not too deep to be a mistake.

Plus I still have my W and we are still on talking terms. I probably fear that the day is coming when I won't feel like saying this or anything else to her. And I guess I don't want to look back with further regrets.

[mutatio]

If you feed the desire to share with her your feelings in regards to those points then do so. I have always followed my heart and do so even now. I think I have become detached and am not highly motivated to work the problem. Until she unlocks "the door" and cracks it open I see no opportunity for understanding.

What do you hope to achieve but sharing with her? I get it, that it's for you. Do you want her to view you differently? Not trying to be a pain in the arse , just want to see it from your perspective.

[roist]

The first item just came on me suddenly and hard this week when communicating with my cousin.It is hard to explain fully. I guess I am reliving my dad's death and the feelings I had about my M at the same time. Words my W said then and the reaction of my sons on one of my visits home are what helped me later realise some important stuff in my life. So there is a feeling of gratitude but mostly I am not sure I ever fully acknowledged her having to look after the boys alone for this time. I felt that I had to be with my dad and the rest could wait. It just feels right to acknowledge that I could have handled things better. It is worse than just taking her for granted. Things weren't greatbetween us, I was depressed and even though I felt like I was losing both my W and dad, I didn't care enough or couldn't react.

What is there in it for me to acknowledge this period of time. Idk. At the time I didn't care. Now I do. I am not clear on my motives 100÷ but it struck me hard all of a sudden. I honestly don't think anything I SAY to W will help unless she is open to that. So the importance lies in the saying and not it's effect.

The next two were basically just to let W know I am worried about her. I don't think she cares in the slightest how I feel but it was genuine concern for how she is. Sometimes I wonder would it be easier to see her happy with someone else than miserable with me. A small part of me says yeah, but the rest screams HELL NO. She has issues that are eating away at her. For the moment she does not want to share them with me. I guess I wanted to validate her ordeal without judgement or fixing.I often wondered if it is harder to be stuck with someone you hate or be with someone that hates you. Hate maybe a bit strong, but the point is valid. If that is her case,it probably is worse than what I am going through. I'm rambling again!

A year ago I would never have been able to openly discuss stuff like this.Through pain we grow.

Thanks again for sharing my journey.

[Zephyr]

R,

please don't sell yourself short on this effort thing. You have been on this journey of pain and sacrifice for A LONG DAMNED TIME.

I have never gone more than a year without sex, since the first time. I've come close a couple of times. It is an amazing amount of fortitude to possess not to go nuts, or get so angry that you lose yourself in something else. The resilience you have shown is HEROIC, no matter who's criteria you are using, OK!!!!

And I realize, it is not just the sex, right...the lack of true intimacy. sharing, feeling, holding, giving and receiving between you and that woman you hold so true...give yourself some credit. You are a testament to your children on what a man can be. Now can you do that forever, should you...that is a conversation for another day

[mutatio]

We are here for you buddy. Your discussion with your wife with will help you and that's good. Your expectations of it's impact are realistic. If you want to talk with her by all means please do. My only concern was your expectations.

Your a good man roiste, it's fine to follow your heart.

[roist]

This risks being a long one. I am journaling to record my thoughts/events as much as to get feedback.

For the first time in months my W met with inappropriate friend today. I don't know if they were alone but I do know it was relatively short and I am 100% sure they just talked. I was told they would be meeting in advance by W. Long story short this ate away at me while she was gone.When she came back I didn't know how to react so I withdrew into myself.

I was not proud of not knowing how to react and how I withdrew.SSo when we went to bed I defended myself by attacking! I asked her why she ignored me all night. She was very surprised by my question as she thought I was ignoring her
And this is how our first R talk in almost a year to the day started

I said I was tired, a bit sick and had had a few drinks and almost excused myself out of talking. But that screamed of typical avoidance that I was guilty of earlier in our M. She encouraged me to rest if I was tired and I almost did. But I didn't want to take the easy way out even if she said we could talk about it another time.

I asked her if she discussed us and she said not really.I asked her to look me: n the eyes and reply again.She reiterated not really.This is the only the only time I doubted her words. I said it is not normal to chat with another guy and definitely not OK to chat about marital problems especially without speaking to H/me about it. She said we must have different definitions of friends if it is not for that. I said we definitely have different definitions of a couple if private stuff is talked about outside the couple and not inside it.

Although some of what I said was fairly firm, everything was said calmly and as a discussion not an argument.

Anyway this lead into R part of the conversation. Again I almost ended it to obey the rules here. But how am I ever going to convince her or me that I am capable of such communication if I never try. I was mindful of the rules, guidelines and advice here and I think I was pretty damn good at abiding by them, apart from the no R talk rule that is!

I validated a lot. I expressed myself well, but concentrated on W and not me. The only time I mentioned my feelings was when I said it was hard to try to talk to someone detached. The conversation wasn't in English so detached is the closest translation to the word we used. She admitted being detached and being so for a long time. I asked if she wanted to stay detached and she said she did not know. I was not needy or pressuring when asking.

This brought us to the part where she saw no solution.I said calmly there is always a solution, one way or another.I acknowledged how hard that must be for her, but I did not pursue any solution.

I took advantage of the moment to express my feelings about when I was home when my dad was dying. She thanked me , acknowledged I should have done what I did and played down my absence.

We chatted a bit more. And I asked her not to try convince here of anything but just to know, what she held against me or why she detached. I did not talk enough. I was bad at communicating. She felt she had to decide every thing on her own. I accepted these, added that when I was depressed I wasn't capable of more, but I am now. I did not try to convince her of this as that is something to observe rather than be told. I did not apologize but I acknowledged that it would not have been easy when I was depressed.

We chatted more. And at the end I was unsure how to play it going forward d, so I wondered about that. There was no real answer as I guess neither of us know.But I preferred mention it instead of ignore it.

I also stated that regardless I do not regret our story together.She said she doesn't either, especially our boys. I again acknowledged her part in raising them. She has been great.

Yes I did a lot of acknowledging. This was more me verbalizing what I thought than trying to compliment her.

I told her that although some of our conversation was not nice to hear, I was glad that we spoke.SShe said she was too. Actually I did not find any of the conversation hard to hear. I took no pleasure from her saying she was detached but I knew that anyway.

Maybe tomorrow when I reread these words or when I rethink about this I may be more affected, but for now I am v calm and detached.

My W was calm, was human and never critical or judgemental during this exchange. It was good. I don't know if anything changes after this.But I outlined in details so ye can advise.

[roist]

She ended it with an old joke of ours! Then we exchanged our usual goodnight kiss.