Discovered affair after starting the DB process

[TxHubby]

It is true you are a victim of infidelity. A lot of us are. The OM's BW is also a victim. Unlike you and I she doesn't have the benefit of the truth. She's still being betrayed. If the situation was reversed you would want to know. I would want to know. Anyone would want to know. You have zero responsibility to fix their M. That's their business. You do have some responsibility to alert her because you know. You're not one of those kind of people. You're a decent person so you'll do the decent thing. Affairs thrive on secrecy. The more we all look the other way the more infidelity will become as commonplace as breathing. There is still such a thing as right and wrong in this world and infidelity is wrong. There is no justification whatsoever for it and betrayed spouses deserve to know where they stand.

[LiM]

I agree with most everything you said but I'm behaving selfishly here. I know that if I just went and told at this point, any chance of reconciliation for me would be gone. Out the window and never to return. I DO believe the A has stopped. If I knew it was still on going, I would expose it to the other BS.
I didn't discover the A by accident. I was suspicious and did the work to find out. The other BS does NOT think that her M is all fine and dandy. She knows they have problems and her H was engaged in the exact same suspicious behaviors as my W. It wouldn't be difficult for her to find out if she wanted.
Because I believe the A is not continuing, I'm willing to bite my tongue. I believe my tune would change if I knew it was on going or if she took my kids to his house for any reason.

[LiM]

My W initiated contact with me today via text. I've been very diligent about not ever initiating contact with her unless its about our kids.
She wanted to know how my "class" went last night. I started Private Pilot Ground School as the first step in getting my pilots license (part of my GAL process). So I took the opportunity to ask her about a class that I know she is starting next month. I didn't know anything about it other than it was expensive and lasted several days. Here is a link to the class:
https://www.createagreatlife.org/resources/calendar
If you click on the links in the calendar, you can read what all the sessions are about. I'm actually very encouraged by this. It seems like it is something that will really help her address some of the big issues in her life (addiction).

[LiM]

Well, this ended up being a really bad weekend for me. My daughters spent the night at my W's house for the first time on Friday. And I think the fact that I was totally alone in the house allowed me to have a complete and total emotional breakdown. I was literally on the floor crying because I was overcome with grief and despair.
And then yesterday afternoon, I think I literally went crazy and lost my damn mind for a period of time. In a span of about 30 minutes, I went from thinking I do not want to live anymore, to rapid fire purchasing of self help M, A and R books from Amazon, to printing off worksheets from MarriageBuliders.com, to thinking that I was going to go over to her house and have makeup sex. My mind was racing so fast, I thought I was going to have to jump off a building to get it to stop. Luckily, I decided instead to take some medication and go lay in bed for a couple of hours. I was much better after that.

My W called me yesterday morning just to chat. She ended up asking me how I was doing and I told her "not well." She said that I didn't look good when I dropped the girls off the day before. I thought I had actually been looking pretty good whenever I was around her but I guess my emotions were showing through because of the state I was in that day. I've lost 15 pounds since December 30th (the day I discovered the A) and she noticed that too.

I prayed for the first time in years this past week. I guess that's what you do when you feel a complete sense of hopelessness in your life. So last night, I broke a few rules and texted her to see if she was going to church this morning and if she was, I asked if I could come with her. She said "Of course" but then asked if I was doing it for her because she knows how I feel about religion and faith. I said No and that I was moving back in that direction on my own. That led to us exchanging several text messages about emotional pain and being "broken" and those being tools that God uses to bring you back. I told her "Well, I disagree with his methods. Strongly!!!'

I then broke a big rule and asked her to come over to my house to talk for a while and she agreed. She left our daughters at her house (they are teens). We then spent over an hour talking and crying together. We both realize our serious faults and how they led to our M falling apart. This is the first time we've had any R talk since I kicked her out of the house. She told me she's already seen unbelievable blessing and changes in a very short period of time. I think she is referring to the rapid changes I've made in myself since coming to terms with how I contributed to our M problems. I think she's especially impressed with the changes I've made in how I interact with my D's. There was a lot of room for improvement there and that's were I've probably made more changes and 180's than anywhere else.

We didn't talk too much about the A. There were things she was ready to tell me if I wanted to know or had questions but I'm not ready for that yet. I already know way more than I should have to know. I'm aware of very intimate details of the A because of how I chose to spy on her. But she did volunteer that she's not seeing him anymore and that the A stopped immediately when I confronted her. For the time being, I guess I believe her because it was my feeling that confronting her would cause the A to stop. I know she's not in love with him and that she never intended to leave and have a life with him. The A was an emotional escape for her.
I think she's still trying to wrap her mind around what she's done and come to grips with the devastation she has caused because of that. I don't think she's ready to completely "own" that yet but I think it will come. I know she's suffering in her own way. She told me that she had to leave work early one day this last week because she was having a breakdown. I think accepting full responsibility for the A is going to be something that is very difficult for her. But I think it will come and it will have to come if we are going to be able to ever truly heal from this.

For now, I'm going to church with her this morning. And then I'll spend the rest of the day trying to stay busy.

[JulieH]

The talk actually sounded good for both of you. I know I feel much more secure and validated when husband and I have "relationship talks". I know he always wanted to avoid them. Which made me pursue them even more and made him want to avoid them at all costs. Was this true in the dynamics bet you and wife at some point prior to affair?

I don't necessarily think there are rules to follow. I think when they say NC, it's really just to prevent you from begging and pursuing someone that wants nothing to do with you. Or more to stop pressuring them and let them come back to you on their own because they get the chance to see for themselves what life will be like without you.

Sometimes it is easy to use NC as a way to punish spouse. LBS justify it as "they want divorce, let them see what it will really be like". The coldness, resentment, and anger builds easily this way for both parties. Sometimes the approach works, but I am not sure if it does when there is no active affair.

The DB coaches seem to encourage friendships. Going back to church with wife seems to be a great idea because it is something that can strengthen your bond.

What are some of the 180s that you have made?

Validating her at this point seems more important then discussing affair.

Seems like you are still doing good. I am sorry for your pain. But remember that the pain is temporary. Feel it and then put it behind you.

[LiM]

The talk actually sounded good for both of you. I know I feel much more secure and validated when husband and I have "relationship talks". I know he always wanted to avoid them. Which made me pursue them even more and made him want to avoid them at all costs. Was this true in the dynamics bet you and wife at some point prior to affair?

No, I don't think so. I don't think we ever had an issue talking about our problems. I think we were both always open to talking. It was really rare for us to ever have a real fight with yelling and cussing. Our problem was that we stopped talking period. We stopped listening to each other.

I had become very miserable and depressed with work related issues (I run a start up). She had become engrossed in her triathlon training. I felt my "job" was to not rock the boat. I was unhappy with how much time she was devoting to her training but I knew that it gave her an emotional reprieve from our problems. Her "addiction" to training was better than her addiction to alcohol, and honestly, I didn't have anything better to offer her. So instead of addressing our problems, we just allowed them to stay buried. I led my life and she led hers. I tried to just maintain the status quo.

I've struggled with the NC rule and not initiating conversation about the R but the problem is that NOT talking about our R is what got us in the place we are in now. I've been very good about not contacting her about ANYTHING since the separation been. Really even before because I started DB'ing before I discovered the affair. So a 180 here would mean that I DO start talking about our problems with her but that violates the NC rule.
I think what I may do is slowly started having small conversations with her by text. Maybe just a "good morning" here and there. She did make the comment "Wow, we're actually talking", about some of the text conversations (that she initiated). I can avoid talking about the R for now but it might be good for us to start communicating again.

I start a Divorce/Separation group tomorrow night and she starts a program next month called Pathways that I mentioned above. Its probably best to hold off on any R talk until after we both get started in our respective courses.

As for 180's, about the only thing I've been able to do is work on my relationship with my D's. And I must say that I am very proud of the things I've accomplished with them in a very short period of time. Our R has become much more open and relaxed. I'm very thankful for that and I think my W has noticed the changes. There are a lot of 180's that need to be implemented in my MR but we're not there yet. I can't be more patient, understanding, appreciative, affectionate, etc if she's not around. But I'm also 180'ing MY life. When I come home from work, work is over. I don't keep the laptop open to answer emails or work on spreadsheets. When I'm home, I'm home. The TV is off most of the time. I take care of the house and my kids. I'm working on my emotional state and being emotional present to the people I'm with. I'm learning to appreciate the good things in life instead of dwelling on and being overcome by the bad. I'm working on being more patient and a better listener.

[JulieH]

Hi,

Fo and I once had a conversation regarding, if our husbands came on these boards in the future because we gave up and left them and they were given the advice to go NC with us it would actually be detrimental.

The problem with my marriage was that husband and I went separate ways. He was way too involved with work and justified it as it being his way of providing for us. He came home and went to work. He rushed out of conversations with me to get back to work. (He is salaried so this makes no sense. More work does not mean more pay. It just means he gets taken advantage by the company or perhaps gets his ego fed by being irreplaceable in his company..but that is a whole other story).

Anyway if your 180 is to start talking then start talking (and listening). Again, I don't know about NC in all cases. I would however stay away from volatile topics like affair.

Go with what works. Asking her to church worked. Asking for talk worked. Now of course you don't want to get into heavy talks daily. But pleasant talks would be ok if she seems engaged. It seems like the problem came from you guys becoming strangers, so doesnt it make sense to become friends instead of even more of a stranger?

Please keep posting and let us know what works. I have hope for your situation.

[LiM]

Thanks Julie,

Your last response clarified something for me. I actually had no idea that I had done something "that works." Pointing that out to me is like a lightbulb coming on. Lack of communication is one of the primary factors that led to our current situation but I was afraid to do a 180 on that. I think cooling off period was certainly in order but now I'm thinking its ok to SLOWLY start talking again. I'll avoid any R talk. I certainly won't initiate any R talk via text. If/when we do that, it will be in person. And I won't push that. I'll let her be the driver there.

We went to church and it was pleasant. We even laughed a little. I was hoping she would ask me to lunch afterwards but she didn't. So I just said Bye and then got in my car and cried by myself.

I'm ready to be done with the emotional rollercoaster but unfortunately, I think its going to hang around for a while.

[LiM]

So here's an update on my situation.
My wife and I met this morning before church to talk for an hour. We decided that we'd get together at least an hour a week to talk. I felt that overall it was a good, productive hour. But she said a couple of things that left me disturbed.
She had previously told me that a week and a half ago, she had a "break down" at work and had to leave early. I saw her that day and it was obvious to me that she was in distress. So today I told her that I was interested to know what she was dealing with and what it was that was causing her pain. She told me that basically, she was having to come to grips with the changes in her life that she was having to make outside of our marriage problems. Specifically, she was grieving the loss of not being able to train with her group anymore (her affair was with her trainer; the "head" of the group) and the loss of the social interaction she had grown to love. So while I'm dealing with the pain of the affair, the destruction of our marriage and the subsequent separation and all the other [censored] that goes along with it; she's grieving the loss of her social circles. From the books that I've read, I understand that its normal for the WS to "grieve" the loss of the affair but I just can't wrap my head around that. If it were me, I think I would be feeling absolute horror at the pain I'd caused for my spouse and family and NOT the loss of social interaction when in fact SHE was responsible for the actions that caused her to lose all that.
Next, she brought up the fact that last week, I had expressed distress in that she has yet to apologize for even having the A. While she has said that she is sorry for the pain I'm experiencing, she says she's not even sure if she's sorry for having the A. Her reasoning is that she feels that it gave her the "strength" to insist that I work on myself in IC as opposed to us working on our marriage in MC.
Before the A began back in November (I believe) we had a big blow up argument. She insisted that I needed to work on myself and was resistant to going to MC with me. My initial reaction was "Why do I need to work on ME when we are having US problems? We need to be working on US." I eventually came to realize, after starting IC and doing some soul searching, that I did in fact need to be working on myself because the ME problems were affecting our M. And that is exactly what I did start doing before I found out about the A. I accepted the role I played in the problems in our M and began working to correct those issues. But I reject ANY rationalization that allows her to justify having the A.
Her being more concerned with the loss of her social interactions and that she is trying to justify having the A give me great cause for concern about her mental status and causes me a great deal of continued pain and suffering. It makes me angry.

I'm still glad we talked this morning because I know we can't begin to heal unless we can at least talk. I've began to identify the things that I've done wrong to bring our M to where it is at today and I'm working hard to change that person. My fear is that she won't be able to come to grips with what she has done and be willing to take the steps necessary to repair the damage she caused and that I'll be forced to endure the permanent end of our R.

[AU Bob]

Hi LiM
Sorry to hear about your sitch!
Your sitch and mine sound similar, my W started going to the gym and it has gotten out of control the gym has taken over her life, and it takes priority over everything including our children, who my W always used to put first.
I do believe it's a form of addiction, they seem to go crazy over it, she was going every day sometimes up to three times a day, I read some articles on it on line that were written by psychologists and they say it releases endorphins into the blood stream and they actually experience a high, and some can even experience orgasm while training, this leads to certain feelings toward their training partner, or PT, they can develop unhealthy attachments to these people, IE actually have romantic feelings.
I have been involved in elite sports all my life and can say I have experienced this myself although I have not been overly extreme, I still have a life outside my sport.
I think this is "one" contributing factor in her being a WW/WAW, she developed an inappropriate relationship with her PT texting with hugs and kisses, telling him how awesome he was on Facebook, and meeting up with him away from the gym, going to his house, and social nights he goes to, but she tells our children they are just friends!
I was with my wife for 30 years, she was just 15 when we met, so she missed out on all the teen party stuff and having a few partners before me, I asked her many times if she felt she missed out on that stuff but she used to say no, but a few years ago I think she started to think differently about it, I think there was a MLC developing, she was changing and I think she started to think more about where her life was going, and where she wanted to be.
We watched "Eat pray love" a few years ago, little did I know at the time how much of an impact this movie would have on her and our M.
My wife told me a number of times in the 18 months before she left that she was changing, and that some of the issues we had were just because it was her! she was changing and knew it and was alright about it, I was to blame for other things that contributed to our issues and could have been better, but that's history now and I have worked on them now but it's too late.
She is on a journey now and is free of our M and the guilt and restrictions that a M entails, she just went about it the wrong way had an EA possible PA and destroyed our family in the process, that's where the selfishness comes in, at this stage in her life it's all about her and her individual happiness.
She dose not love me anymore, but I will always be the father of her children and someone who was a part of her life for 30 years, you cant change that, they still want you in their life but only when THEY want it and on THEIR terms, this is why they want to be friends, they still want to play happy families on birthdays and xmas etc, and fell comfortable, and then they can buzz off back to their other life and leave their real family again "cake eating"
She has to take this journey and find herself, I'm not sure how long I can give her to work out what she wants for the rest of her life, I am just starting to get my life back and be happy for myself, I do feel sad for her sometimes when the kids get angry with her, I know it saddens her, but this is the reality of what she has done and how she did it.
Friends!!! not at this stage, she left, it was her choice, I wanted to work on it she did not. how can you be friends with some one who rejected you and has no love or faith in you.
Sounds like your sitch and mine are similar.
Love your children and don't cuss out their mother, they will love you and respect you for your strength and love, in time they will see and understand, you did your best.
Be strong buddy, you will be fine.