Two Wolves

[CaliGuy]

Good Morning all … hopefully I can get this one done before a 54th Flash Flood warning, seems we are all about to drown out here in So Cal …lol

Old thread: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...485#Post2638485

I read this and thought it was really appropriate for a few of us.



An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. "A fight is going on inside me," he said to the boy.

"It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego." He continued, "The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. The same fight is going on inside you - and inside every other person, too."

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"

The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."





So I have been sick all week as is W, along with that there is this whole unspoken law “Stay away from me” type thing going on … I have been on the couch for about a week I think. One of the MLC things that is still very strong is the selfishness. I walked the dog yesterday and during that walk I though .. ya know what .. I am calling in sick today and resting … total 180 for me as I think I have taken 3-4 sick days in 20 years. W was pretty surprised but then quickly manipulated things telling me I should go grab some soup … “oh and while you do that why don’t you drop off S at school so I am not rushed” I did this not thinking really clearly but afterwards kind of realized she still is the master at manipulation. Later that day I asked (via TM) if she could pick up S as I was still sick …. 3 hours later she replied she couldn’t as she was at her therapy apt. This sent me spinning for about 30 minutes, I went ahead and allowed myself to spin a bit … calmed down and realized if I were single I would be doing just as I was doing. Seemed to help some but has got me thinking a bit at some of the bigger mistakes I have made in the past 6 months.



I feel like I have lost momentum, lost some power in this if you will. Since what .. back in October or so W has stopped really working on the M..rings off…, I am back to the DBing and no R talks … I only have the most basic of boundaries in place but some of the other boundaries I would like to have I just feel would only add pressure so I do not bring them up(Loveless/sexless marriage). We are not working on the M, and I just am not seeing her really doing any of the work on herself … I get she cannot work on us when she is a mess … but I fear she is stuck and I have done nothing but make it easier. She has this male friend who I do not feel is a OM2, but I also think she feels she needs to hide this from me (she deletes all TM from him), maybe the exchanges would upset me, maybe she still feels entitled to do as she wants I do not feel this is a OM2 thing as honestly there is no time she would be out seeing him as she is very open with where she is, its either homework or her PT and I have confirmed these on my own …. Bottom line is I am not sure what is going on there, for the most part I do not really care until I start thinking that this relationship may not be doing our R or M any favors. So I allowed myself to spin a bit … process this .. again not doing anything at the moment but I have found myself starting to really consider moving out.



The move out thing stems from not wanting this limbo thing anymore, along with this feeling deep down she is stuck and in a way has a security blanket on and seems just happy to stay wrapped up in it rather than to do the work, conversely maybe its just that I do not see the work. Last night she told me that Disneyland has some special .. wanting to buy tickets, I was not as enthusiastic as she .. in fact I told her S and her would love that, but I need to save my money. I am not giving up.. atleast not today .. I am just at times growing tired of this, there is no guarantees and I get that, but I feel the timelines rapidly approaching. Feb, … Valentines day and the text she sent last year after evidently breaking up with OM …for the ump-tenth time telling me it’s the first V-day she has been alone, to which I replied it was my 2nd. The lease in the condo is up in May, I do not want to live there .. its still a host of triggers for me (I have faked it very well), I would like nothing more than to move back into a house, start over with a new M and a new life .. there has been no talks of either so I am really growing weary of this limbo life that I have been in off and on for the past 2-3 years. Just when I am all set and doing well on my own she does just enough to real me in … this was my mistake for not being strong enough and holding out till she was done baking, knowing I deserve more



So all this … I just feel I missed a chance to really set down the terms of what I want, what I will not do without. I have not allowed her to treat me poorly anymore .. the spew sessions are very short, I am a better man after all this but still unsure of where all this is going. So I dig a bit more with this old patience shovel that is about ready for pasture. I pray for signs from God this is what I am to do and he has blessed me with a nudge here and there to let me know I am still on the path He has layed out before me …. I am uncertain if W is to be a part of it much longer.



So to feed the other wolf …. The past few days as I noted W has been all sorts of affectionate towards S and the dog. Was a long going joke during our M that I knew my place, last in line behind S, dog#1, dog#2, neighbor’s dog, the squirrel in the tree, and the cricket whom we could never really locate. Tuesday she was all over the dog then was all over S … I just looked at her and smirked … she actually gave me a hug and told me she didn’t want to get more sick. I felt at ease a bit thinking .. ok at least its more than roommates as its felt that way for a bit. She also mentioned she is just waiting for my anger to come back. Funny … I figured this is more about projection and the monster of hers that would appear and before I was DBing I met fire with fire, now I understand just allowing her to burn the eath on her own tires her out much quicker and I stay out of the emotional destruction for the most part. Over the past week as I said I have been on the couch, just removing myself from being blamed if she wakes should it be my sniffles/cough/sneeze .. whatever. At first it was a very cold vibe from her, over the past few nights small acts of kindness .. wanting to give me extra blankets, getting out the vics, that sort of thing …. Again … yes this may be croutons turning into stuffed turkeys but its movement in the better direction.
W has also been doing yoga in attempts to help with her neck/headache issues... Again I do think her health has not helped all this ... The other night I walked in as she was doing her exercises ... I leaned over and kissed her forehead and whispered "I'm proud of you" then left... She smiled and said thanks. Seems small acts like this by me here and there seem to help. We will see how long she sticks with the yoga, as with many things it's a quest for happiness and will fade out as something better comes along

Anyways … that’s about all for now … we will see what the next days/weeks bring

[tfish08]

You are not exaggerating when you say this will take time.
keep on keeping on

[job]

I'm sorry to hear that you both have been under the weather. I do hope you feel better soon.

[Fogg]

Cali,

Sorry to hear about the difficulties, I know you've been at this so long and more positives would be nice to see. Patience, what a bitch it can be.

I think my W is in a similiar position with fixing who she is, stuck I see alot of the same MLC signs and selfishness in my sitch. I don't think the selfishness is intentional, its more like shes just incapable of thinking any other way. I assume you don't take it that personal anymore, which is useful. I think I don't, but deep down somewhere I probably still do.

Anyway, keep feeding the right wolf and I have no doubt you will be fine. I appreciate you putting your story on here, I know its helped me greatly so far.

[bttrfly]

Hi Cali and HNY.
I love this parable and thought of it often last fall when H and I were going through mediation.

You are doing so much and so well in so many ways. Try to focus on that. I know it's hard. I know it takes every ounce of patience you can muster and then digging deeper to try to find more. You've come so far. Sending you thoughts and prayers that you will find more patience, support and strength to continue.

Something you said really struck me about meeting fire with fire vs stepping aside and letting them wear themselves out. I need to remember that, especially now as it seems I'm going to have to either strap in tighter or ... just occurred to me ... I don't have to be on this ride! Ok. I need to go think about that a bit. xoxoxo stay safe

[CaliGuy]

Well ….. guess my last post was prophetic, sometimes you can just feel things are about to happen. So many things were said I will try to get out as many as I can



I get home last night after getting S from school and w is there, she worked from home, I said hello and grabbed the dog for his walk. When I arrived W informs me in a smug way she will not be home till 6:30 tonight, I simply asked what she was doing …. She snapped a bit and told me she was getting her palm read. I shrugged and started warming up S’s dinner as she came into the kitchen and asked what was wrong, what I was thinking … ya know the interrogation. Then she said that I did not seem happy, did not seem happy with her … I told her that was not the case. Then she asked if I had made any New Years resolutions …. Its funny because I seen exactly where she was now headed with all this .. I stayed calm and told her that I decided a few years ago if I wanted to make a change I was not waiting for NYE to do so, then I played along and asked her if she had made any … she confessed she had but did not want to share them and upset me, did not take much prying but she said that she made a decision about what here and I should do.

She told me that she has mentioned her feelings, been honest, she just does not ‘feel’ that way towards me, the good ol ILYBINILWY. I was pretty calm and explained that if one believed after 25 years we were going to be all love-struck like teenagers again it was just not realistic. Then I spun it, and said I was glad she atleast seen this is not the way a marriage should be and the fact I had been having the same feeling, I too and not “in Love” but I knew it would take time and effort for that to happen, the effort part has seemed to fade. I pointed out “WE” stopped working on the M, she obviously heard a lot of “You stopped doing this and that” but I had to point out I said WE several times. She continued to tell me she loved me then pushed that she wanted to be friends, I told her in no way was I interested in friendship with her, for a host of reasons. I told her I was ready to move on with my life and said I will find a happy R/M regardless if its with her or another. She really was hung up on the friendship thing, and I told her that I want her happy even if that is not with me, but I could not be a friend and be that close to see it happen. I told her I have stood for this marriage inspite of what all has gone down over the past 3 years, I stood … I can look in the mirror and know I did all I can, but I will not be in a marriage such as the one I have currently found myself in and admitted that I had been thinking about this very same scenario … me moving out, however I was going to give it a little more time as I felt it was worth it to save this if possible, something I was interested in but not if I was the only one pulling on one end of the rope.

This brought up MC, and Retrovaille …She quickly referred to our failed MC sessions as “That Bitch doesn’t count” …. I calmly said .. “well maybe not, for starters I did set that up (this was to show that I was trying as she held me not wanting to go to MC back in 2012 against me) however that ‘Bitch’ simply called it like it was, you were still involved with OM and MC can not work with 3 people in a relationship” I told her it was fine that we were no longer doing the ‘homework’ as she felt it was doing nothing, however I restated my opinion that we were not going to be able to resolve the number of issues we had alone .. those same issues are whats holding back those ‘love’ feelings. I explained it like the house, she let me in the house but I am not allowed in all the rooms, her reply was “You mean the bed room .. its all about sex with you” Again … re-written history, sure we had sex issues that I was led to believe were medical related and I am certain she is dealing with a load of guilt and all this is a way to avoid that. This then opened up a discussion about our sex life and how horrible she recalls it being. On one hand she said she can not remember because its been so long, on the other hand it was all one sided and she did not get any pleasure out of it … I was calm about this .. as hard as it was … I told her again issues like this I was open to work on but we would have to actually work on them. As we talked about this it was surreal, in one way I felt it was good to atleast get this stuff out there and discuss it. She then went into Mini-Monster and started bringing up the same old M crap .. the buttons … I calmly told her I was not going to be treated badly and allow her to just spew, I also told her for her sake, at some point she would have to let go of all that old baggage.

Took a break and watched a show with S, walked the dog .. then put S down … round 2 hits. She told me that she felt I would never be able to get over what happened. I STFU … when she finished I told her that I realized over the past few months that if I wanted my family, my M , my W that I would have to get over the past …just as she would. I told her is it easy … no, am I 100% healed .. no. These things take time but I am WILLING to move past these things. We talked about what I wanted in a M, was simple .. I told her, even to the fact I told her she may not be able to be th person I need her to be and that maybe she is right … to much damage … however if she was willing to work at the M then I would be willing aswell. During this exchange evidently she felt as I was lecturing …. She told me “Don’t lecture me like I am a child .. I am not a child!!” As she said that she grabbed a stuffed animal like a teenager and pouted/hugged it. I almost laughed but was able to keep it in. I ended the conversation as she continued to revert back to the “I don’t feel that way/my feelings are not there” but on the backside of that she was in tears aski9ng me to be her friend, I simply told her “I do not want to be your friend, I want to be your husband” I told her goodnight and went to bed.



I am strangely at peace with all this, it really needed to happen. I was honestly wanting to wait a couple months as I was nearly done paying off some bills in order to afford a decent place for S and I. W told me “I am not throwing you out” … and brought up some old D concerns she has had about me taking her to the cleaners … tossing some things in my face. I really just do not want a M like ‘this’ …. I was ok if she was actually working on things but just felt she really went into a holding pattern. The tricky part is when to move out … S’s Birthday is coming up, nothing like your parents splitting up on your birthday right?



Bottom line, I deserve more, I have been on this ride long enough and have done all I can … sure I have more work on myself to do but in all honestly that will never stop, I will continue to improve and work on things everyday of my life with or without W, she has some work to do and I have felt for the past few months she can not bake with me there. Ironically yesterday I was reading a bit… a sitch similar to mine, a woman’s MLCr home to early and this sort of thing happened .. I have not completed reading her story (back in 2011 on HBs site) but the parallels are there, like me she grew strong enough to know she was ok with or without him and hit a point if it was going to be with him he needed to bring something to the table, I feel that way too .. not that I need to punish W for all her wrong doings, but at some point commitment has to be more that just living in the same space just ‘being’ there. I want to share my life with someone who can and will love me … if W is unable to do this I am frankly better off. I am open to my M … will be till the D is signed off, but I just feel like I am no longer stalling it nor standing in its way .. I may even be leaning towards getting it done and over with so I can move on from all this, as cold and jaded as it sounds it's where I am this morning

[Sotto]

Hi Cali, I'm sorry to read this but glad that you at least seem to be in a reasonably good place about things. So, are you saying that you plan to get your own place now? Or are you waiting to see what happens next after your talks?

I can see what you're saying about your W not coming to the table with enough commitment, and how frustrating that must be. She just may not have that to offer at this point in time - and only you know whether you are truly ready to move on. I do think she was making some progress for a while there, and I'm always reminded that the spouse is the last person a MLCer truly connects with...

Anyway, I just wanted to send you hugs and offer my support. I'm hoping someone with a little more wisdom than me will stop by. I must admit, one thing I tire of hearing is 'dig deeper for patience.' I'm not sure whether H & I could ever reconcile as I'm not sure I have it within me. I read the accounts of others who have trodden that difficult path and I doubt myself.

Take care my friend xx

[bttrfly]

Wow Cali ...
So remember when I said that moment would be crystal clear, when you knew it was over. I get the feeling that this is NOT that moment. I get the feeling that this is the drop the rope/wake the hell up and smell the java moment for your W though. I guess what I mean is (and please don't take this the wrong way) Congratulations. The waiting is over. YOu've hit a point that I long to get to: one where you KNOW no matter what you will be ok with or without this relationship and have not closed the door to whatever else or whomever else might be in your future. From what I've read about this process, this is where the rubber meets the road.

I sense you might have a bit of relief to be at this point, of course tinged with other emotions I'm sure. Cali, you have done so much for this relationship. You are so spot on that you deserve more, much much more.

Continuing to send you good thoughts and prayers {{hugs}}xoxoxo

[bttrfly]

(oh, and keep feeding the right wolf!)

[ForeverYoung]

Wow, great job standing up for yourself, Cali. And YAY for some movement!

I remember several Big Talks with my wife, and I always felt better afterwards, no matter what was said. Stfu has it's place, and helped to get us where we are, but it's not a good long term plan.

Then she said that I did not seem happy, did not seem happy with her …

Think about this for a moment... this means she still cares for you, and cares about how you feel.

She told me that she has mentioned her feelings, been honest, she just does not ‘feel’ that way towards me, the good ol ILYBINILWY.

OMG, I don't even want to try to count how many times I heard this. It's (mostly) NOT about who you are or are not. She had "Feelings" for you for how many years, Cali?

I was pretty calm and explained that if one believed after 25 years we were going to be all love-struck like teenagers again it was just not realistic.

I remember telling my wife, and this was early on in our crisis, "Ok, so you want to find that passion with someone new... and it will be all hot for a year or two... and fizzle down. What then?"

The thing is, no new guy can match what we have to offer. And our wife's know this! Use it to your advantage, to save your marriage. She WILL thank you some day.

By the same token, no woman can give to us what our wife's can... That's why we stand, even through all the crazy pain.

This then opened up a discussion about our sex life and how horrible she recalls it being. On one hand she said she can not remember because its been so long, on the other hand it was all one sided and she did not get any pleasure out of it …

Yeah, I heard this too. But I was there, and I know it's not true. It is a rewriting of history. For the record, your wife may likely be open and able to pleasure you before she accepts pleasure from you. Accept this as the gift of love that it is. (it will fill your tank and keep you going) Ask me how I know

You read Michele's SSM book, right?

I ended the conversation as she continued to revert back to the “I don’t feel that way/my feelings are not there”

Feelings change, and they can change again. They changed at least once already, right?

but on the backside of that she was in tears asking me to be her friend, I simply told her “I do not want to be your friend, I want to be your husband” I told her goodnight and went to bed.

Maybe you could be her friend just a little while longer?

I am strangely at peace with all this, it really needed to happen.

I'm glad you are at peace with all this, and agree that it needed to happen. We can't, and shouldn't avoid the Big Talks forever.

Bust On, Cali!