Time to make changes

[peacetoday]

Joss

It definitely sounds like further investigation is needed
Are you sure he is in MLC
maybe he would consider counseling..

I think it may be a good idea to practice some active listening and see where his head is at
be the person you want to be and practice that with him
listen and validate ..put your hurt aside for a little bit at least with him
you can talk all you want to therapist about it
be careful the friends you share with and many people unknowingly will influence you to not try

It may take some time but if he is not in MLC and he never wanted the Divorce your chances are probably better if he will consider counseling
I do not know your full situation but it sounds like he had an affair and you asked him to leave
the affair is over? and he is online dating
the emails are confusing,,sounds like he has regret
he knows you are serious to throw him out

I would investigate further but please keep expectations low
He may have an issue with being Faithful and an addiction so even if its not MLC
he still has to be willing to let the other dates go

[joss]

Are you sure he is in MLC

I think so. He's been wanting to escape for years now, and became so distant over the past year, saying we'd grown apart (news to me), not wanting to spend any time with me, being angry often (very unusual for him), losing all connection with his friends, and his emotional affair with co-worker for 5 years (not usre if it's gone to PA now???)

maybe he would consider counseling..

have tried that but it failed as he thought the councelor and I were ganging up on him (his guilt, i presume?)

I think it may be a good idea to practice some active listening and see where his head is at

This is my next plan. It seems quite difficult, but I'm sure with practise it can be achieved.

but if he is not in MLC and he never wanted the Divorce

I don't know, but I don't think he ever wanted a divorce because being without the kids is the worst possible scenario for him. As a child, his dad worked abroad most of the year, only coming back at christmas and in the summer for a couple of weeks (from when he was 5)so he feels that he doesnt' want the kids to be without their father figure. It is my guess, but I know how big a place in his heart and mind 'family' plays.

I do not know your full situation but it sounds like he had an affair and you asked him to leave

Yes. It started 5 years ago with a work colleague. I have seen lots of messages from each of them over the years, and when I was another note written by him to send to her in the summer (after he'd told me it had been over for 8 months) I aksed him to eave. I had had enough of the bullsh1t. I have no idea if it is over now. I rarely see him. He recently got an apartment near the family home so the kids can go and see him whenever they like.

and he is online dating

Yes, i believe so, although he hasn't told me but he accidentally put the names of 2 girls (and meeting times) in our shared computer calendar instead of his own private calendar

the emails are confusing,,sounds like he has regret

I;m afraid I'm not in the least interested in regret. I;m sure he regrets, but he know what he was doing, after being 'caught' MANY times over the past 5 years. I don't care that he has regret.

he knows you are serious to throw him out

Yes. It is easier living alone than with a person who lies and deceives me every day.

He may have an issue with being Faithful and an addiction

this has never been an issue in the preceding 20 years of our relationship.

He was made redundant from a job he LOVED 5 years ago (where he worked with OW) and so he feels he's a failure. This is the rood of his MLC, i think.

Thanks for your insight peacetoday. Much appreciated. Joss

[kml]

Joss....
I can't imagine the pain of living with his ongoing affair for 5 years. I want to tell you right now that you absolutely did the right thing by booting him out.

You can see that he is struggling with the reality now...something he never had to do before, while he was having his cake and eating it too.

You have been the rock, keeping things together at home and facing the challenges of raising an autistic child along with your other two. He is the weak one who had to go outside the marriage for excitement when the going got tough.

Take advantage of this time to find yourself again. I get the feeling that your H has beat you down with his criticism of you. Know that his affair had nothing to do with your"flaws" and everything to do with his weaknesses.

Now...IF you think you want him back, you can give him a roadmap of how to get there. But don't sell yourself short. If he really wants back, he will do the work. So far it sounds like you're getting words but no actions.

And you know what? You don't have to take him back if you don't want to. Yes, this has elements of MLC. But continuing the affair for FIVE YEARS while he knew that you knew and were hurt by it? That reflects a certain underlying lack of character.

Take a close look at who your H really was before the affair. You may be surprised at what you see.

What I've learned (after my ex's affair, a successful DB reconciliation, his MLC a few years later and our ultimate divorce) is that my ex always had narcissistic traits that I accommodated and didn't recognize.

You are under no obligation to reconcile unless YOU think it is the best thing for YOU.

Also...a word about the kids. I understand doing everything you can to save the marriage for the kids sake....that's certainly what I did. But don't assume your kids would be happier if you reconciled now. My ex and I never separated when he had the affair, but I learned later that the kids were very anxious during those next few (good) years, they were waiting for the other shoe to drop. So now that you and H have separated, don't assume that the kids would be better off if you reconciled.

The very best thing you can do for your kids is to model strength, optimism, moving forward. My kids definitely benefited from my example of resilience, it helped them feel like they could survive it too.

[joss]

Hi KML. Thanks for giving me a bit of feedback and words of enqouragement- regarding throwing my husband out after his EA for 5 years. I'm glad I did it, but now I think he thinks I did it because I hate him and am glad to be rid of him (I am glad to be rid of the heartache and stress, but of course I wish it could have been different!)

Now...IF you think you want him back, you can give him a roadmap of how to get there.

I'm not sure what 'a roadmap' for this situation would even look like. I would be very interested to hear what you advise??? I am aware that if he wants me back, he has to do all of the work. After all, he knows where to find me!

So far it sounds like you're getting words but no actions.

I'm not even getting any words. Just a few reminiscing thought as to how we used to be.

Yes, this has elements of MLC. But continuing the affair for FIVE YEARS while he knew that you knew and were hurt by it?

Yes, this is difficult for me to come to terms with, however I did enable it. sigh....

I am sorry to hear about your situation. HOw long did that all go on for? It sounds quite drawn out, too. It's unbelieveable what we have to put up with, isn't it?

I don't recognise any narcisistic traits from pre affair, but I am learning to recognise a lot of things over time (and with headspace) so who knows what I;ll realise somewhere down the line). Thanks for the heads-up, though.

regarding the kids; it seems to be working well at the moment in that they can go around to his apartment by themselves whenever they want, so that has seemed to lessen the devestation for them (I think?). Again, time will tell....

many thanks. joss

[kml]

Brief timeline of my sitch:

H seduced by old crush the night before our wedding. Carries on secret correspondence with her first 6 mos. Remorseful when discovered and our relationship seems solid.

16 years and 3 kids into the marriage, ex has an affair with a temp coworker. This only lasts a few months as affair is quickly discovered, affair partner figures out he lied about the state of his marriage and she moves to a new assignment in another city.

I DB my butt off, do careful self inventory, make changes, marriage reconciled and we actually have several excellent years.

H approaches 50, has career setback, last 2 of 6 concussions just 2 weeks apart, and asks for divorce. (In retrospect I suspect flirtations or casual affair at that time).

We divorced, he dated for a few months then met 33 y.o. to whom he is now married (I'm grateful she is not an OW). I dated for a few years then met tall, dark and handsome BF who treats me like a princess. 7 years since we split, afyer 26 years together.

What I've seen since: there may have been other flirtations or infidelities that I didn't know about. We always did what HE wanted, and he devalued my interests. He was more concerned with how I, and the kids, made HIM look. He could never be satisfied, I was never thin enough (even when underweight!) or athletic enough, and he always had a chip on his shoulder that he thought I was smarter than him (really, equivalent intelligences, just differing types).

Luckily I am pretty confident so his crticisms didn't destroy me like they might some.

I learned to play the drums when he left and now play in a pop punk band.

Best thing I learned in all of this- take risks and live fully.

[joss]

kml

H seduced by old crush the night before our wedding.

Yuk. that is awful. It sounds like you are definately lucky to be rid of him. Do you still see him? Is he happily married?

If you could please give me some indication as to what my 'road map' should look like, I:d be very happy to hear it.

It's my wedding anniversary on the 31st Dec (in 2 days) and I am wondering what I should do/say to him if he mentions it in any way (ie. via card/email). I was wondering if a well aimed truth dart would be appropriate?, like; why are you celebrating a wedding anniversary with one person, yet having an affair and dating others at the same time? I don't want to sound bitter, but I would like to mention the discrepancy.

thanks for listening! joss

[kml]

A roadmap might include things like :
Complete transparency (giving you access to phone records and email passwords)
Dating and wooing you

Him getting individual counseling

Him attending a 12 step program if appropriate (they have ones for sex and love addiction which may or may not fit him, or for alcohol if her drinks etc)

Not moving back in together for at least a year (so he can demonstrate fidelity)

Completely cutting ties with OW and doing so in front of you

[kml]

As for ex - he seems happily married so far - she seems sweet (remember, she's not an OW, she came later) if very little-girlish. I feel kinda sorry for her, but hope she will care for him in her old age. Their carefree life is starting to become more serious though - her mother died this year and her father is apparently coming to live with them for a while.

I know a lot of people here long to hear those words, that they regret the divorce. I really DON'T want to hear that from my ex - I would rather he go happily along his way, and treat our kids better because of it, than turn into the depressed guy who realizes what he messed up. I have a clean conscience that I did everything possible to save my marriage, and I definitely don't want him back in my life at this point.

[peacetoday]

I like KML roadmap

I think you will know if he is serious or he just wants to keep his foot in the door
It will take a lot for him to really turn his life around at this point
I think there a a rare few who will go to any lengths to get x back
but halfway measures may not get you a committed R and may bring you back to where you just left

as you said, you are not interested in just being friends…so your will be able to figure it out fairly quickly

[Cristy]

Hello Joss,

I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.

It seems like you have embraced detaching and GAL. Good for you! Your wedding anniversary on 12-31 needs to be handled very carefully.

Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.

Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004