H just moved out, making it hard to detach

[Zues126]

Knock Knock.
Who's there?
Control Freak. OK, next I'm going to need you to go ahead and say 'control freak who'...

A good joke for those like us

Thanks for taking what I'm saying in a positive light.

At the end of the day the biggest 180 is to slow down, remain humble, and not to believe your emotions. For me this was a challenge. I'm super smart, and I can understand stuff really well...but I'm also a professional salesman, and can rationalize things and make them sound convincing. Then on top of it I'm on these forums, and can tel myself that I have the moral high ground and am more devoted to personal development, etc. So when I feel a certain way I can build a really moving case as to why I'm right...only if that leads me to run someone over then even if it sounded good when I told them, it won't feel good as life passes.

Kind of like I could sell ice to Eskimos, and maybe I could get their money, but as they discovered they don't need ice they would feel betrayed, violated, and feel I didn't care for them and just told them what I wanted to hear so I could get what I want from them. Likewise you can feel something so passionately you feel you are right, rationalize why you are right, convince your friends and family, explain it to H until he can't argue anymore and just nods and goes along with it...only he will feel bad, trampled down, unheard, uncared for, and eventually he won't want to live like that anymore.

So just remember that your H's feelings are just as right as yours. They are just as valid. He may not have your skills to articulate or debate that you do. But instead of taking that to mean that he's wrong, just take that to mean he doesn't have those skills. Instead of using your skills to make yourself heard and overpower him, use your skills FOR him. Understand what he's saying, and then work for him. See if you can state his position, his feelings, his priorities, his concerns, and his perspective as passionately as you can voice your own.

If you can do that a few things will happen. He will feel more heard than he ever has. And if you truly understand him enough to do all of that, and you place his feelings as equal to yours, you will start to see things differently as well. You will start making different decisions, some on major issues, others that are trivial and unconscious, but that add up to showing him that his inner self is safe with you, because you care and respect him as a person.

I agree it's harder now than ever because you're emotions are SCREAMING at you...that's why the best thing to do is slow down and remain humble. Damage control goes a long way, not digging, not making it worse. By all means vent away, build your case as to why he's terrible for leaving...but then take a deep breath and keep your perspective.

You're doing awesome, I don't know if I'd say you're your own worst enemy. I just would say you're human and imperfect. Just like all of us. But it's all good. You don't have to be perfect to save your M or deserve love.

[ciluzen]

I dropped off Christmas bread for ladies in H's office, greeted everyone that popped their heads out to say "Hi" (H did not, so I didn't bother him), and dropped his mail on his desk along with my note about the budget and changing mailing address for important mail.

D1 called a bit ago and started discussing Dad stuff, then told me he was sad because I "came through like the wind and didn't even say hi". No mention of note.

New Realizations:

I've talked too much to D1 about this as a friend. She is not; she is both H and I's D, so I told her we would not be discussing more than family get togethers and such in relation to H and I.

She talks to H about me and he vents to her, as well.

180's in place. Tonight I'm going to start my book club book.

[JellyB]

Hi Ciluzen

I read over your posts last night and today. Zues has pointed out to you some small stylistic communication patterns and that these patterns potentially lead to your H feeling invalidated and you maintaining control. There is a reference about your profession and potentially this influencing your intimate communication style. I think I read you were an educator with experience in assessing behavioural concerns in children??? I may not have that correct.

The reason I ask, is Zues is right there are some significant similarities in our sitches. You are by far more rational and emotionally regulated, and have been able to move into action far more quickly than I. However we were both in relationships with good men, confident men who socially engage well. I too became reliant on my partner for social activities and support. Lost my confidence and independence, focussed myself around caregiving role.

My interest in your communication style is because I have similar one to what Zues pointed out to you. I too am in a people orientated assessing role. And have known for a while now that some of my communication style from my work leeches into my intimate conversations, and I use it to serve my needs with my partners.

I wonder what you think? I have some ideas, but wonder if this is something you have ever noticed. I am very interested because my partners could have written your husband's script to you. I could have written your script for you. Please tell me more, what do you notice? What is about our communication style that shuts our lovely men down when we feel we are being open, validating and interested in their emotional well being, but also interested in the shared relationship experience (ie my experience in the relationship).

If responding to these questions is not of value to you , please feel free to ignore. I would not be at all offended.

Many thanks

JellyB xxx

[ciluzen]

Hi Ciluzen

I read over your posts last night and today. Zues has pointed out to you some small stylistic communication patterns and that these patterns potentially lead to your H feeling invalidated and you maintaining control. There is a reference about your profession and potentially this influencing your intimate communication style. I think I read you were an educator with experience in assessing behavioural concerns in children??? I may not have that correct.

The reason I ask, is Zues is right there are some significant similarities in our sitches. You are by far more rational and emotionally regulated, and have been able to move into action far more quickly than I. However we were both in relationships with good men, confident men who socially engage well. I too became reliant on my partner for social activities and support. Lost my confidence and independence, focussed myself around caregiving role.

My interest in your communication style is because I have similar one to what Zues pointed out to you. I too am in a people orientated assessing role. And have known for a while now that some of my communication style from my work leeches into my intimate conversations, and I use it to serve my needs with my partners.

I wonder what you think? I have some ideas, but wonder if this is something you have ever noticed. I am very interested because my partners could have written your husband's script to you. I could have written your script for you. Please tell me more, what do you notice? What is about our communication style that shuts our lovely men down when we feel we are being open, validating and interested in their emotional well being, but also interested in the shared relationship experience (ie my experience in the relationship).


I have been thinking about this since Zues hit me with his 2x4 (so appropriate). Really studying our interactions.
My H is a very smart, loving, good hearted, hardworking man and a person others look up to as a leader. But he has many self doubts and insecurities that others don't understand or see (he didn't open his own practice for over 20 years because it was "easier" to be an employee). My style of interacting, whether I realized it or not, preyed on those insecurities and exacerbated them. He told me that when he would do certain things, he could hear my voice in his head telling him he was doing it wrong. I fought him when he told me that...I've never said "you have done x,y,z wrong", but I made him FEEL that way.
By acting fearful, I showed him I didn't trust him.
By saying, "what you should do is..." I told him he NEEDED me to tell him how to do something, once again telling him I didn't have faith in his abilities.
By being "open and honest" by telling him about my hurt feelings, I told him he was wrong in his actions without considering his feelings.
By withdrawing when he was having fun with others, I told him that he was not allowed to have fun unless it was with me...he was acting wrong again.
By my attempts to compliment him and show love by touching, kissing, hugging, and following him around, I looked to him more and more like I was trying to kiss a## to control him, and he believed those honest attempts to show him love less and less.

In a nutshell, I spent a lot of time showing my lack of trust in his abilities due to my own insecurities and fears and need to control, and he got tired of feeling like cr#p on my shoe.
All of my "I love you"s and compliments rang false to him after awhile because my actions showed otherwise. All of my physical attention probably just seemed selfish.[color:#993399][/color]



If responding to these questions is not of value to you , please feel free to ignore. I would not be at all offended.

Many thanks

JellyB xxx

[ciluzen]

Ok, So that quoting with my stuff in color doesn't seem to work today. Hope you can find my stuff in the middle there? LOL. Technologically inept today.

[JellyB]

Morning Ciluzen, It's 6.30am here on Christmas Eve and I have just woken up and picked up my laptop to see if you responded. I think you and I are going to have an interesting conversation. I will respond I just for now to haul myself out of bed and do my last day of work for the week.

I am enjoying reading all of your GAL activities. Hope you have an awesome evening indulging in something.

Much love

JellyB xxx

PS I can't figure our the quoting colour thing either. I found if you type and then highlight then hit the colour it worked for me this week. LOL

[ciluzen]

Journaling, again, since I'm already here.

Its almost like someone turned on the lights (ZUes, JellyB, everyone else here) and I'm seeing sooo much.

I feel so guilty for breezing quickly through H's office yesterday and not stopping to chat with anyone as I usually do, not saying "hi" to him. But he never said "hi" to me, either. Why do I feel so bad? If my daughter hadn't told me what he said to her, I might not feel as bad. I realize that his reaction would not matter if I was truly detached.
I brought a gift for the office, his mail, and my budget letter. I even feel guilty for writing the budget letter, even though, in a way, that's what he has asked. Are these 180's? So contrary to what I would normally do? I wasn't being mean, just the opposite of what felt right.

I am realizing just how much I have hurt him. I've basically told him that I thought he was incapable of doing anything right. That I had no faith or trust in him. In the past few years I caught him in multiple, increasing lies. And let him have it verbally...wouldn't and couldn't forgive him. Now I realize, what did he have to lose?! I had already shown him I didn't trust his decision making and wouldn't allow him to have any fun without me "sharing my feelings".

I want to call him, text him, write him about the things I'm now seeing. But I know that that would backfire and probably cause a reaction of, "So what? Too little, too late." Or more likely, just H not believing me. I think his trust in me is gone.

It also doesn't mean I'm emotionally stable enough to talk to him without falling into my controlling default...I still need to learn how to not do that and practice STFU methods...and REAL validation (no but). I do believe I'm starting to get it.

So now for the less hard part. More inconvenient. Its snowing. A lot. I'm supposed to go out and get food for Christmas dinner. Right now D1, SIL and his parents are coming. D2 (unreliable and not so good at driving) is supposed to come in the morning. H has said nothing, but is going to D1's house for breakfast Christmas Eve (I just found this out from her last night). So maybe not planning on coming. I'm tempted to cancel all because my long road isn't plowed and probably won't be til school resumes. I don't mind spending Christmas alone, really. Not sure of what to do, though.

GAL is going to have to wait a bit, I guess. But what would I have done if H was living here right now? Well, he'd be skiing, I'd be painting, watching movies, reading a book, dinking around on the computer. All things I can still do. I guess I just need to get into the mindset that its just me and I need to make the best of it. Wish it would stop snowing so much, though.

[JellyB]

Hi Ciluzen

It is not unusal, in fact probably a very human response for us to assume responsibility for every negative feeling that our partners experienced through the course of our relationships. I acknowledge that this is important part of the process. It is the pendulum swinging and is to be expected.

So with that said be careful about taking too much responsiblity. Remember that your H had a role in this too. There were things he did and didn't do that contribute to the good and bad feelings about yourself and relationship. You are new in your sitch and it takes some time to find the balance and perspective.

Please remember that just as much as you need to take responsiblity for your needs, wants and behaviours. H needs to as well. Your stepping back and giving him space will hopefully will support him to do so.

Ciluzen that other thing about being a natural caretaker is we are likely to take responsibilty for finding and describing solutions for and our loved ones. Our intent is honourable and a loving behaviour (in our eyes), however for our loved ones it can become disempowering or controlling. As caretakers we are also often feel responsible for people's negative emotions in response to actions we perceive as positive or having good intention. We are often a little heart-broken we when feel we haven't got it right, or guilt ridden or misunderstood.

A behaviour we often engage in is explaining to our loved ones, what our intent was, hoping that it will change their perspection of us.

There is much to be discovered about being a person who places others (our parnters/husdands/others) before ourselves. Our communication is often not direct and concrete.

I have gone a bit, but I just wanted to say, don't be too hard on yourself, your business is yours right now and husband's is his. You are managing the consequences of your behaviours and decisions and H will benefit from the opportunity to manage and move the consequences for his.

I really do hope there is some connection for you with your daughters. While I am jealous of your traditional Christmas postcard snow-filled Christmas, I would hate to see the weather stop you from seeing your lovely girls.

Much love to Cilizen

JellyBxxx

[ciluzen]

Hey, JellyB!

Thank you for your kind supportive words. I was able to get out today and get to our closest store, 30 minutes on a plowed hwy. A few of the neighbors used their tractors to clear our road a bit. Luckily I didn't have to go into town as reports were that it was an awful mess.

D1 came up (thank God for Subarus!) to edge her FIL's skis and visit a bit. Minimal M talk, we both tried to steer clear of it and almost managed. Plans are still on for everyone on Christmas.

Funny thing happened. H's receptionist called about some insurance/password stuff a few times and had made a mess of some things. So after work, H called to apologize and then vent. I let him, STFU smoothie in hand. No advice, no buts, no questions. When he started to say, "you don't need to hear all of this", I encouraged him by letting him know it was ok if he needed to vent a little. H vented for about an hour.

He is NOT coming to Christmas. He plans to ski all four days. I said "Good! You deserve to relax and do something you enjoy." Able to use my 180 list. Told him to have a great time.

I DO feel very badly for my part in this. The realizations are painful. I know he has a part in it, too, but mine are so strong and newly realized that I am reeling. I am going to stick to my plans that I've laid out since I went to all of the effort to make them. I hope I get the opportunity as I did tonight to show what I'm doing to change. I know I have to show him, can't tell him.

I hope you have a wonderful holiday. I would love to send you some of this snow. It is very pretty, right now. I have a beautiful view of a large red barn with a mountain just beyond, lots of pine and fir trees, and everything blanketed in white. It is nice to stop and look out the window here. I hope someday to share the view with someone else again.

[Zues126]

C, I've been very drained today and haven't had it in me to muster much of a response. I echo much of what Jelly says about not swinging the pendulum too far. You can make adjustments to your behavior without punishing yourself for being imperfect. And you don't have to 180 everything about who you are, just make the changes you feel are appropriate, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

That's all I have in me right now, probably a good 180 for me to end a post before reaching 10 paragraphs