no clue where Wife is, cant see past the FOG

[AJM]

Hi Irish. Sounds like fun.

Some things to consider as you move along.

We usually travel to Mexico or Caribbean but this year I'm planning that trip in March

We watched the grinch and laughed the same way we did if W was there.

For now, I get that you're maintaining the same traditions and keeping things on an even keel. It won't be long before your daughters are looking for new traditions and even more leadership from you.

Something you may have missed in Dellboy's post is something I've seen a lot of lately in my own family and in others I pay attention to. I was talking to a woman at a party this past weekend, and she was being nosy (I don't mind; we're neighbors) and asking about the house and my ex etc. Before I could finish the story, she was telling me about her mom and dad. It's 30 years on and her parents can talk to each other. Her dad was the one that went high and to the right and married a woman 20 years his junior. He wreaked havoc in the family doing it. It was years before her and her dad spoke. Many years. But they have a good relationship now.

Did he ever admit the havoc he wreaked? I didn't hear it from her.

Another story is my aunt. She left my uncle (he's family) 30 years ago. Her boys are still angry to some degree. But in private, she tells me how sorry she is for ever leaving and being so selfish. Do the boys know that? Not likely that it would help them. Do they have a good relationship? Yes. So does my aunt and uncle and their spouses.

My point is that this point in time is just that. A point in time. What happens next is up to you. Whether or not she ever comes to her senses (sic) is up to her. Giving your daughters a good start in life is currently wholly in your control and what you do with that time is on you. I think you're doing great with them, but wanted to point out that you shouldn't get too hung up on W and what she may or may not do, even in time. It may be 30 years or it may be that you never hear it. She may never overcome whatever is driving her to be like this. Or she might and not tell you or anyone else. That happens a lot because of the embarrassment factor

Figure out you and your daughters. Give them the life you envisioned for them. Sure it won't include their mom at this point, but that's the only thing not present in the vision.

As for you, your daughters want to see you happy and content. They are looking at you to see how you handle things. Years from now, if they are in a similar situation (and I hope not) they will remember how you handled things. If they are in a different difficult situation, they will remember how you handled things. How you lived. How you reacted. How you treated them. Or as Maya said, "how you made them feel."

Get what I'm saying? It's likely your W will regret her decisions, but that's sooooooo far in the future IF it happens, it will be irrelevant to you and your girls. Try not to wait or live too much in the past. Come up with new traditions in the near future. Things are just for you and your daughters. Things that the three of you can look back on and look forward to. Little things and big things.

Set the standard as you've been doing.

I hope this is helpful encouragement. I really like how you're handling things. I think you will be glad you did it even more than you are now.

AJ

[Delboy]

Hi Irish M, I’ve been rummaging thru my computer and I came across the following copies of letters that Liz (my Ex) wrote and sent to our kids a week after she left us. I have put down their ages at the time of these letters.

My additions are in brackets and my girls ages were correct back then, also all the names are made up.

I hope this will help in trying to understand what’s going thru some ones head during a MLC.

Love
Delboy


Mon 2nd Feb 2004

To my darling Louise (Aged 17),
I apologise for my behaviour towards you over the past weeks. I know that I have been very selfish with what I have done and for the way that I left home last week. Dad (Delboy) gave me a letter that said I had damaged our relationship I can understand why.

I will try and explain, a couple of years ago my feelings changed towards your dad, I felt that we didn’t have anything in common, I gave up trying, about a year ago I got involved with Nic, he would cheer me up and make me feel a lot better. I know that it was wrong. But by this time I had fallen for him, I did not mean to break a family up.

I have been thinking of you, sorry that I haven’t been in contact but I was afraid you wouldn’t speak to me.

Love U always Mum

I will write again or if I have the courage send you a text or even phone. I hope that you are well I miss you a lot

Love you.
From Mum
X




Mon 2nd Feb 2004
To my darling Ann (Aged 19),
I apologise for my behaviour towards you over the past weeks. I have been selfish? With what I done and for leaving home the way that I did. I had a letter off Dad (Delboy) saying that I’d damaged our relationship and to explain why I’ve done all this.

I will try, I felt that me and your Dad had nothing in common after all these years, I got fed up, I think it started after we lost money (Delboy’s business failures). I don’t mean to blame anyone but these things happen, about a year ago I became fond of Nic he would cheer me up. And I would turn to him, I know that it was wrong, but I couldn’t help it.

I just want to say that I am so proud of you. You are everything that I am not.
I am sorry that I have not been in contact with you but I was afraid that you would not speak to me after all that I have done.
I really miss you I am always thinking of you, I love you very much, hope you are well. I well text U or call you soon.

Take care of yourself
Lots of Love Mum
X





Mon 2nd Feb 2004
My darling Dawn (Aged 13),
I just want you to know that I am sorry for what I have done. I know that you didn’t understand my behaviour when I was home the last time, because I saw the way you looked at me.

I would not talk with your Dad about how I felt, that is why I drifted apart from him. I want to say that I miss you a lot and love you. I am always thinking of you and hopefully soon I will be able to talk to you.

All My Love
Mum X

P.S. I will understand if you don’t want to speak to me. I will always be your Mum no matter what!

[Irish M]

Once again a very powerful message AJ. Yes new memories for sure were added this year and planned for next year aswell. I also want to keep traditional things as well. Life doesn't stop because W is gone missing. We enjoyed those activities and I'm glad we can still enjoy them even though W is not a part of it.

Maybe W is not missing anything. Her head is not screwed on right. I have no clue and I don't want to know. I haven't even tried to see where she was living. It won't change me or what happens next. I'm living my life the best I can and sharing it with my Girls. All I could say is if it was me gone.... I'd be off the chart crazy for not seeing my D's for this long.

Delboy.... Wow incredible letters. My Girls got a message like those only no appology just that she left me not them ( funny thing is she ignored them and was fine with me for the last 3 weeks she was here) . Also said the Past 10 years she faked everything ( so I guess her being their mom was pretend)

I was told by a few ... Their words mean nothing ... Actions are the only thing we can believe in.

Delboy , those are incredibly sad letters. She has no clue but they probably made things worse than better. I feel for you brother.

[Irish M]

Got a message today that W has XMas gifts for the D's she hasn't seen in the past 5 months.

Makes me sick that she thinks she can entice them with gifts to see them and all will be forgiven between her and them.

I had this discussion with the D's last week and both want no gifts from her and neither want to buy anything for her. I relayed that message to the W. W of course doesn't believe me . Wants to talk to the D's and hear it from them directly.


The last time they spoke to W on the phone was over 4 months ago. W told them that she was living with OM.

I will ask D's once again if they want to call W. Told W to be near the phone tonight.

She replied she's always ready for the D's. It hurts hearing that because she has sent out less than 10 emails to them in the last 5 months. Told them directly that she doesn't want to live with them but just go out and have fun and hot chocolate.
She has tried to call them 0 times at home and cancelled their cell phones that she was paying for.

Very frustrating

I'll leave it up to the D's to decide what they want to do.

[Sotto]

Hi Irish, I'm glad to hear that your W has reached out to your D's hoping to offer gifts. I wouldn't see it as an enticement in the hope that all will be forgiven, but it sounds as though she would like to reach out during the festive season.

That said, I can understand this raises difficult feelings within the family and it isn't surprising that you all feel pretty raw about this. As you say, I think it is up to your D's and in the longer term I think it is best for them if they are able to have a R with their Mum - as long as the contact isn't causing them further difficulties....

I don't really have much wisdom to offer, but I hope you manage to navigate this with them, and hopefully other wiser posters will drop in too.

Take care, Sotto x

[peacetoday]

Irish

I also don't know way to say

It shows, although she can't be a real mom to them, she is thinking of them
maybe in her mind she is trying to rationalize her unavailability with gifts
I think they run and run from their pain then maybe they stop for a breath b4 they run again
Personally I would not rock the boat
I think our MLCers still have to figure this out on their own
our judgement of them will not help the situation

I would probably thank her and if the girls do not want to talk now..I would allow them to choose and explain that to her in a non hurtful brief-but authentic way

When my XH recently tried to reached out after 6 years, although no real phone contact was made..I told My D at least you know he cares and has made amends]
reminded her its not her fault nor in her control..she agreed and let it go
My 14 S denied any contact immediately on FB with him and deleted his request..
He hasn't talked about it since..

I have watched a close friend forgive her XH and help him to heal his life( she does not want him back) but
they now have an amazing friendship and he is once again there for his kids
It has been unbelievable to watch and his getting better has been a direct result of her kindness and forgiveness ,,this was a guy who left her penniless and left to have several affairs..this is many years later,,he will be celebrating this holiday with her their kids and her family..
pretty amazing!

[Irish M]

What a stressful night on my D's and me.

It took everything to convince them to call W.
I was in the kitchen on the other side of the house. I could hear D15 talking (more yelling) at W. I knew it wasn't going to be easy.

They both came out of the room crying telling me W wanted to talk to me.

I tried to remain calm and to the point. W said she wanted to see the D's on the 24th for lunch. If I could convince them. I said no, She should ask them.
W said no and that I had to convince them like I convinced them tonight to call her.
If I didn't she would prevent me from travelling with them to the states this spring.

Sorry . I lost it. Told her that I don't like being threatened into forcing my D's in doing something they don't want.
Then she went on saying they need to respect her as their mom.

I told her when she first left to find herself and ended up finding OM after 2 weeks and neglecting the kids for 5 months...they are affected by that.

She again said I left you not them. I was unhappy .. Needed to get out.


I told her congrats on finding happiness. This is what it looks like.

And i hung up.

The D's were clearly upset. They said they were done with her lies. W doesn't remember anything she did and said to them. Still thinks the D's are upset only because W left me.

I wanted to email her a list of things she did to remind her... I won't.

Anything the girls brought up about what happened she avoided the topic or told them they were liars. The girls needed to vent.

I was able to calm them down and I asked them about the 24th. They said NO at the same time like stereo surround sound.

Now to get back on track... Enjoy the Christmas season and crest new memories for me and the D's

W has a long way to go. What scares me is I see a lot of MIL in W. Her mother came out of her tunnel cold and narcissist . I think this is W fully cooked and will be like this forever.

One good thing. She didn't mention OM once. She still had not made that public.

[mirage]

Irish,

For the record. I got the same "I left you not them" line, while she drove away with not one of them.

The lies, deceit, me, me,me is part of the script. A child of 12 should understand her plight and agree with everything they do. yada, yada whatever.

I was going to say don't convince your daughter's to speak with your EXW. Just be there for them. That is your one and only job....be the rock for them.

My daughter see's her Mom occasionally but she has a huge wall built up with her. It took a few years for her to get there but will never say anything she feels around her Mom. The monster comes roaring out breathing fire and this is now 6-7 years after the bomb.

Be the parent that is there and don't force them to do anything. They can make up there own minds on what type of relationship they want. We don't respect or want to be in a relationship, parent or otherwise with a liar, cheater or someone you can't trust at all so why would they. Give them the space to be there own person.

I feel for you but you are doing great.

mirage

[job]

Irish,
Oh my goodness! I am so sorry that this happened. My heart goes out to you and your daughters. What a horrible thing for their mother to say to you about convincing them to meet up w/her. She is very selfish right now and can't see the light of day or recognize the damage she is creating.

I have to agree w/Mirage. Don't force your daughters to do anything that they do not want to do w/respect to their mother. It is her place to repair the damage that has been created by HER when it comes to her daughters. Listen and be there for them as you have been doing.

Again, I am so sorry that their mother is being such a selfish woman right now. I pray that a miracle will take place and your wife get some much needed professional help before she's damaged her relationship w/her daughters to the point of no return.

[Irish M]

Sotto, Peace, Mirage and Job

I really appreciate your support during this W encounter. It threw us all back. I wish she would of stayed gone for the holidays at least instead of trying to please herself with this gesture.

I was shopping with D13 last night. We bump into an exW of one of my old friends. I've seen her around a few times and have always said hi, talked kids and went on our way. My friend and his EXW have been seperated for a few years.

Anyway, she says hi, gives me a sad look and asks how are you? I reply great, knowing very well she knows about my breakup.
She says she bumped into someone who told her the news. She couldn't believe it. I figured that someone was my W. She went onto telling me W's version of how she was so unhappy and had to get out of her life. I heard all this before. She also said she had nothing good to say about me. That is what frustrates me. It's been 5 months and she still has to justify her actions. I said only good things. Hope W figures out what she needs to be happy. She was amazed at how calm and collective I was. Complimented me on being strong for the girls. W is losing out big time.
I made one mistake. Told her the name of OM. She quickly facebooked searched him and said OMG gross. W clearly isn't sharing her trophy with anyone.

Besides all that she tries to friend this woman who she hated in the past. Even her she was surprised. When me and W would see her I'd say hi, W would smile. When W was alone and they crossed paths she wouldn't give her the time of day. Now she is trying to have drinks with her.

Reminds me of a party W went to about a month before the BD. She came home talking about a Caroline (name change) . How much fun they had. I then caught on that this was the Caroline she hated. Her old boss that made her cry over and over again. Now they are BFFs lol . Wow

I have had a W overdose and all I want to do is write her a long letter or calling her to tell her to stop bad mouthing me. How long does that last? I know writing her is meaningless. I'll regret doing it.

It's the 23rd , hopefully now me and D's can go back to the upbeat life we have. Christmas is still coming.

Christmas will come with ribbons. It will come with tags. It'll come with packages, boxes and bags. And I won't be puzzled 'till my puzzler is sore. Then I thought of something i hadn't before. What if Christmas, i thought, doesn't come from W. What if Christmas, perhaps, means a little bit more.

Love irish