H just moved out, making it hard to detach

[Ancaire]

I hope you're out having a wonderful massage right now! I used to get them pretty regularly several years ago...oh...I miss them so much.

I'm glad I finally found your thread. I'm about halfway through reading up on it. I need to take a break, but I plan to finish when I come back.

You're so lucky in one regard. Your H still seems to have some feelings for you. My problems in my M were the same as yours. I just kind of withdrew. I left him on his own a lot. He never acted like it bothered him, so I had no idea that it did. I'm frustrated with my H because words are such useful things. Why wait until all feelings are gone before saying anything?

I don't know. I'm sad to be in this situation, sad that you are, too. But hey! I am happy to get to know you a bit better. I'm an Army brat, born in Tacoma. We lived there when I was a kid for a while, too. I started K in WA. I've always wanted to go back. One day....

[ciluzen]

Had a wonderful massage, Ancaire. Thank you. And the therapist was cute. In fact, the three that I saw were all good looking young guys. Mostly women clients. Whoever is in charge of hiring there is smart!

[ciluzen]

So, I don't know what to think right now. Maybe its just more of the same, or not.

After my massage the other day, I called to tell H that I had sent his parents a floral centerpiece as I do every year. He interrupted and seemed so happy, relieved, etc because he knew they loved those and was going to ask me who I got them from. I have always done all of the Christmas shopping except for my gift from him; every other gift was from the both of us. Then I told him that I had only signed my name and that it was a difficult decision and not very me. That I had only signed my name on all of the gifts I gave this year. He paused and said "thank you for the heads up so that I can act accordingly". Then he asked if I was ok. Well, that opened up the emotional floodgate.

After telling him no, that I had to miss work, and him asking why, I told him the truth. I was having a very hard time.

A bit of ILYBINILWY history.He had told me before that he had felt that I hadn't loved/liked him in years and so he had detached (he didn't use that word, but that's what he did) and started to make himself happy (GAL) regardless of my feelings and actions. And then he slowly fell out of love with me (that's when my bad behavior came out...jealousy, suspicion, crying, etc.).

After telling him I was having a hard time, I then went on to apologize. "I'm so sorry that I somehow made you feel all those years ago the way I'm feeling now, because this pain is horrible, excruciating, and unbearable when the person you love stops loving you. I don't know how you got up every day for all those years. I'm so sorry I made you feel like this." I could hear him trying to say something and trying to control his emotions, so I cut him off and told him he didn't need to say anything, that I just wanted him to know that I understood how much it hurt, that I did not mean to hurt him. So I ended the call.

I have artwork that hangs in his office and have gotten a lot of sales and commissions through that visibility. I have been creating prints of my work to sell on etsy and at his office and so I was going to deliver them today. He called as I was driving to make sure I was coming and seemed excited; told me he had told everyone that the prints were ready.

He was genuinely happy I was there when I came in, tried to help me display them, discussed details, even made me eat some cheesecake someone brought in. He's been nice enough when I've come in, but he was almost fawning over me today. Walked me out to my car and stood as it was snowing discussing a Christmas gift for son in law. It just felt different than it has. I know better than to get my hopes up, so as no further calls re necessary, I don't think I will. I'll just see what happens.

[inpain]

Ciluzen, your last post had me welling up with tears for you. Tears at what you said to H about how sorry you are for causing him the same pain you unintentionally caused him in the past and also tears for how your H acted when you went to his office. I think you are right to keep your hopes in check but agree it seems like a baby step in the right direction. I think I need to say something similar to my H about the unintentional pain I've caused him in the past. Thank you for posting your inspirational speech.

[ciluzen]

WTF?! And by that I mean...WTF? My H's behavior sometimes...I try try try to understand his POV,but mind reading is not my strong suit and ugh!

Ok, lemme splain. I used to love skiing with my H and later, my kiddos. I wasn't ever great at it, but I could ski almost anything (slow), jump, go through the trees and have a good time. As my kids got older and better, my husband got much better. I started to back off a bit as their abilities eclipsed mine and I felt I held everyone back and/or frustrated them. We had friends that started skiing with us and the "annual ski trip" started happening plus weekends were a great time when my kids were in HS for large groups to hang out at the hill all weekend. More and more often, I stayed home. That's when H and EA woman got closer. I then really backed off because I felt I couldn't compete. I even said I'd retired from skiing...never really enjoyed it. Boooo me.

Now that I am on my own and GAL, I have decided to revisit skiing...to see if I like it for what it is, not for who I was with. Or even if I actually like it. I told H this when he came to pick up his ski stuff a few weeks ago so he set up a pair of skis with my boots(my skis were lent to someone)for me. When I saw him a few days ago I mentioned that I was going to go up because there was a microbrew tasting up there, but that my friend had backed out so maybe I'd just ski by myself. He didn't seem to believe me. Just said, "yeah. sometimes its hard to get other people to go." He goes up alone most of the time now and had pleaded with me to go a few times in the past (I did) to just be in the lodge and read.

Today a new friend from work (who has never met him) and I went up to the mountain for the latter part of the day. As we were getting our stuff out of the car he walked up. He stood there awkwardly smiling at me.I made small talk and tried to be pleasant, but he was...wierd...and awkward. I introduced him to my friend and he hardly acknowledged her, just said "oh, she's boarding." Then he mentioned that he saw us as we were arriving and that he was going the other way.I realized that he was leaving and told him to have a great rest of the day. H kept standing there and bringing stuff up about the microbrews, which one's I might like, the food, the snow, etc.My friend finally said, "I'm going to take awhile. You can head up to the ticket booth and I'll meet you there." I literally told H to have a good rest of the day (again) and walked away. When my friend met up with me she told me he had passed us on the way up and waved frantically (i was oblivious) so he had to turn around and drive 1/2 mile back to the parking area. She then talked about how awkward he was acting.

My daughter called when I got home to tell me that she had heard from H and that he said I didn't seem happy to see him at all. I was, but what am I supposed to do? I don't even know how I'm supposed to act around my own H anymore. I wanted to hug him...but that seems to counter the DB method. The best I could do at the time was walk away. But I seem to have hurt him?

[Ancaire]

I have very little insight to offer regarding the actions of a WAS. I do have tons of sympathy to offer, though. I've thought many times that while my H seems to be in love with the idea of moving on himself, he is far less open to the idea of me doing the same. I'm convinced my H is going through a MLC, just based on how thoroughly his personality has changed. Judging by your H's age, it's possible he's going through something similar.

On a positive note, his actions indicate he's not quite a ready to say goodbye permanently as his words would leave you to believe. Keep DBing to the best of your ability. There is hope in your situation, I think. It may not happen overnight, but there is hope.

This is a tough, tough ride we signed up for when we decided to save our M. I plan to stand for my M at this point in time. H will get the D he so desperately wants, and we'll take it from there. I have no desire to marry anyone else, so I'm in it for the long haul. He's in some kind of fog where he's convinced himself that everyone will be just fine - even though it's clear at the moment that everyone is far, far from fine.

I don't understand it at all. I only know I can work on me. That is where I encourage you to keep your focus. On you. Do the best you can. This isn't easy, but when it works out...it make everything worth it.

Hang in there!

[JksD]

ciluzen, perhaps you could treat your H like an acquaintance that you're will like to know better but you're still not quite sure of?

Civil but friendly, but not too friendly. I am trying very very hard to treat my X like this but my face just automatically switches to a RBF when I see him.

[inpain]

Phew! That's a tough one Ciluzen! I think you behaved in the right way for DBing but it always seems wrong doesn't it?! It does say in the book that these things will feel like the total opposite of what we actually want to do.

I see good signs in the fact that your H actually turned round and drove 1/2 a mile back to be able to interact with you. I think if he was truly done he'd have seen your car pass and thought, "Thank goodness I left before she turned up!" or something similar.

As far as what he said to your D I think that is what all this DBing is supposed to make them feel like, so they know what they're missing and draw them closer step by step. I really wish I could give some kind of advice and say you definitely did the right thing but like you I am totally struggling with this whole DBing thing. Everything I want to do is apparently the wrong thing to do and everything I'm supposed to do to stop D seems wrong to me.

I think you did good though and well done you for going skiing again. Did you enjoy it?

[Zues126]

I see good signs in the fact that your H actually turned round and drove 1/2 a mile back to be able to interact with you. I think if he was truly done he'd have seen your car pass and thought, "Thank goodness I left before she turned up!" or something similar.

Hey guys, just wanted to reply to this one sentence. I see this an awful lot from those early in their sitch. The 'good sign/bad sign' game.

It's hard for me to find a way to explain, please take my word for it (maybe someone else can explain it better): There are no signs for what lies ahead.

We've seen WAS's treat LBS nicely for many reasons that have nothing to do with R. Guilt. Cake-eating. Manipulation. Trying to avoid consequences for their behavior. Meeting their own emotional needs to be needed. I could go on, but you get the idea.

On top of that, WAS's behave so inconsistently that there is simply no one set of actions that would define them anyway. Which are you going to listen to? The one where he suddenly shows up and makes you your favorite meal? Or the one where he spews at you in front of the kids for wrecking Christmas because you told him you don't want him there for present opening if he's always texting on his phone with OW? (for example)

Finally, the last problem is that the very outlook is one of attachment. It shows a focus around WAS, what they do, whether they are coming back to the M.

Truly you need to "Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see".

BTW, this wasn't easy for me. Like many LBH's I worked hard to DB every day with many a long post. I tried to do all of the 'right' things. I saw what I thought were consistent positive signs of things moving the 'right way'. 90 days in I started getting warmer and warmer emails, sharing emotions, asking about what I wanted, noticing my changes, asking if I wanted R, etc. I was like "kewl, I DB'd and we're going to work through this". Little did I know that she had been drinking to black out drunk almost every night, had a series of PA's, and had 20 different text message exchanges going on with different guys she had known from high school or around the neighborhood. I was just one of them, someone she pinged when she was desperate and lonely. When she called me and talked about killing herself I went over to the house and ran into none other than a drunk WW and an even drunker OM that had been sleeping in the bed during her phone call to me (and during many of the late night emails she'd been sending). I found the phone message exchanges the next morning after she was rushed to the hospital (she did attempt).

THIS WAS A BLESSING. THIS is what it took for me to really understand what I am posting about. The first 90 days I was truly in denial. I am SO grateful I was given this clarity. I could've been stringing myself along for a long time. Granted, I continued to DB and held hope for R for months after that, and I still continue to DB in the sense of trying to be the best man I can be and GAL, 180, etc. But I don't think about R anymore. Not saying "I wouldn't take her back" although it would definitely take a series of unlikely events for that to ever be a possibility, just that after you drop the rope at some point you stop asking your self the 'do I still want R' question because it is as useless as wondering what you'd wish for if you found a Genie Lamp.

So in conclusion, if you're longing for R and evaluating every wiggle of WAS and recalculating the % chance of R based on which direction they sneezed last, then getting angry and wondering if you'd still R or not, these are signs that you need to detach further. If not you'll be tying yourself to them so as they go through their crazy emotional rollercoaster you'll be flung along with them.

How to detach? That's another post, I get too long winded anyway. Just want you guys to at least see this point so you can stop your thoughts from getting too carried away when you start going down this road. You will for a while, but at least you can be aware of what's going on so you can appreciate your feelings and these thought patterns are a stage, not a reality.

[ciluzen]

Thank you everyone for your ideas and insights. I struggle with detaching, obviously. Just when I think I'm doing ok, this happens and I'm thrown for a loop.

I had a fabulous time skiing. I skied alone for the first time ever (my friend went to the terrain park as she is half my age). It was an almost zen-like experience. No one to follow or keep up with, I did what I wanted to do. I had to get myself out of some messes (the trail signs were snow covered and there was fresh powder everywhere as it was snowing)but I realized I'm better than I thought. I only had myself to rely on and that was a confidence booster.

I ended up calling H after talking to D. I know I probably shouldn't have, but I'm so tired of being misunderstood. I called to tell him it was nice to see him...that I was surprised. I told him my friend saw him waving as he passed us and wondered who he was but didn't tell me til after she met him. I told him I had a great time and will be doing it again soon. It does matter to me that he turned around and drove back: I felt he should know that given our history of him thinking I don't like him.

I want him to take that bratty little boy (his insecurity) that is yelling in his ear, "She doesn't like you! She doesn't care about you! No one is attracted to you! You are old, awkward, and embarassing! All you are good for is a paycheck!", and slap him in the mouth and send him to his room. These are all things he has expressed. He is in MLC.

As much as I try to follow DB and understand the concepts, what H expresses bothers me because it is a misunderstanding of our interactions that has gotten us here. I didn't realize what he is now expressing until this whole thing had blown up (BD). I can detach for me,a struggle, but as much as that can help me to eventually go my merry way, his feelings of being unliked will just be enforced by my withdrawal. Further evidence that H was right all along.

So, detaching as much as I can while still making sure that the little bratty boy inside of H is not supported in his lies...this is where I struggle.