It was very kind of you to give me such a thoughtful response to my post, thank you. Your words are appreciated. I am happy to share my journey of self discovery with you. I am here for many reasons, the primary reason is to find truth. To walk the path of truth one must be discerningly reflective of one actions and beliefs, open to new lines of reasoning and a desire to adapt to a enlighten evolution. I find solace and companionship here but they are not the reason for being here. I am here to find truth and share it. So I would love to answer your questions.
"Part of was my own frustration and resentment in dealing with my own situation" . Tell us more
I have spent my life designing and constructing objects, analyzing designs and modifying them to function in a efficient manner. My childhood experiences and this skill set do not provide me the background necessary to repair my marriage. Another part of my frustration is that I am powerless in the marriage right now. My wife has shut me out and is working on herself. While this occurs I can do nothing to repair the marriage. So my frustration is the inability to bring effective change to this situation. I think it would be healthier to see this as the universe has provided this opportunity to me so that I can evolve and become a better version of myself. At this time my role in this marriage maybe to provide quiet support to my wife.
What choices have you identified that made you reflect on your own moral code?
In the past I was selfish and egocentric. I became aware of the impact my behaviors were having on my wife and kids in 2008. I realized I had ignored doing the right thing for selfish reasons long enough and would now re purpose my life to bring light into their world. Self medicating through booze was another behavior that caused reflection.
What happens when you operate outside your moral code?
I sometimes get carried away in the moment, like the post mentioned above. After the fact when I have time to think about what I've said or done and I realize where I have erred. At that point I try to repair my mistake because I want to do the right thing.
" Part of it is my Psyche, I know it is not right but I find it easier to beat up on a male then a female". What's triggered here for you? Who has been beaten up in the past, the present the future?
My father was verbally abusive to my mother regularly. I watched my father hit my mother once. I have a strong aversion to the strong imposing their will on the weak. My mother and myself were verbally abused by my father in the past. Until 2008 I was a insensitive selfish fool and put myself before my family. In the present I beat myself up for what I have done. This must be true because I just started crying. In the future I hope no one is beaten up including me.
My worry Mutatio is that containment is not about a healthy management of emotion and containment does not lead to resolution of emotion, it maintains itself. I wonder if you have a case of better in than out?
This may be useful, I struggle with compliments. I do not know how to manage them. They make me uncomfortable. I usually make a self deprecating comment. I have struggled all my life with being assertive. I ask nicely, repeat myself, become frustrated and then do it myself. Or if it was my kids I would then yell. This was a major reason for my mismanagement of myself in life.
Thank you JellyB, I love you, you are a beautiful kind caring soul. I aspire to become like you and I am thankful to have you in my life. Be well
Thanks Fogg. I guess I'll plan my next project, maybe I'll go to the store tomorrow morning. If this keeps up, I may fix everything in need of repair.
I would be in a dark place if it wasn't for the support of you and all the other fine people on this forum.
Is the best course of action for me to be pleasantly supportive to her and keep myself busy will she processes her feelings and emotions?
Mutatio, this is exactly where I am too. We both have the same flawed logic. Our spouses may never process their feelings. I know that I am waiting. I am keeping busy and trying to improve myself, but I am waiting on him. I know its not the way we are supposed to be looking at this whole thing, I can see the flaw in the logic when you post it, or someone else, but truthfully that is exactly where I am right now also. The sad thing is that I think it will be when we actually stop waiting and literally do move on that will be the thing that brings our spouses back. And then we won't want them at that point. I am starting to see how that is one viable ending to this whole mess.
My wife was nicer to me today then in a long time. I used to get excited about the possibilities. Now I know to enjoy it but not view it as a sign. I really miss that smile and appreciate it every time I see it.
Cheers my kind hearted friend. I hope her smile warms you all day and night, even if it's fleeting.
You have such a kind soul Muatatio, I think when you combine it with the dormant strength that's probably been looked at only as anger and thus hidden, the best version of you will come out. The fierce compassion that's in there somewhere. You can't write the way that you do without it.
Keep digging Mutatio, you may not be able to control the outcome of your M, so put that control that's desperate to be used to getting after your goals, taking care of yourself and growing your heart.
Your W gives you an opportunity when she hides her smile - the opportunity to shine for the both of you. When she lets it out, let it fill you up.
There is more to you than your W may be willing to realize, show her anyway. Show her by being so strong and calm that the combination of both coming together infuses every room of your house with the undeniable feeling of confidence and compassion.
PP
Last edited by PigPen; 12/07/1505:32 AM.
M 39 W 36 T5 M3 BD - 1/15 Separated - Same Day Served 9/15 D finalized 6/17
It was very kind of you to give me such a thoughtful response to my post, thank you. Your words are appreciated. I am happy to share my journey of self discovery with you. I am here for many reasons, the primary reason is to find truth. To walk the path of truth one must be discerningly reflective of one actions and beliefs, open to new lines of reasoning and a desire to adapt to a enlighten evolution. I find solace and companionship here but they are not the reason for being here. I am here to find truth and share it. So I would love to answer your questions.
"Part of was my own frustration and resentment in dealing with my own situation" . Tell us more
I have spent my life designing and constructing objects, analyzing designs and modifying them to function in a efficient manner. My childhood experiences and this skill set do not provide me the background necessary to repair my marriage. Another part of my frustration is that I am powerless in the marriage right now. My wife has shut me out and is working on herself. While this occurs I can do nothing to repair the marriage. So my frustration is the inability to bring effective change to this situation. I think it would be healthier to see this as the universe has provided this opportunity to me so that I can evolve and become a better version of myself. At this time my role in this marriage maybe to provide quiet support to my wife.
What choices have you identified that made you reflect on your own moral code?
In the past I was selfish and egocentric. I became aware of the impact my behaviors were having on my wife and kids in 2008. I realized I had ignored doing the right thing for selfish reasons long enough and would now re purpose my life to bring light into their world. Self medicating through booze was another behavior that caused reflection.
What happens when you operate outside your moral code?
I sometimes get carried away in the moment, like the post mentioned above. After the fact when I have time to think about what I've said or done and I realize where I have erred. At that point I try to repair my mistake because I want to do the right thing.
" Part of it is my Psyche, I know it is not right but I find it easier to beat up on a male then a female". What's triggered here for you? Who has been beaten up in the past, the present the future?
My father was verbally abusive to my mother regularly. I watched my father hit my mother once. I have a strong aversion to the strong imposing their will on the weak. My mother and myself were verbally abused by my father in the past. Until 2008 I was a insensitive selfish fool and put myself before my family. In the present I beat myself up for what I have done. This must be true because I just started crying. In the future I hope no one is beaten up including me.
My worry Mutatio is that containment is not about a healthy management of emotion and containment does not lead to resolution of emotion, it maintains itself. I wonder if you have a case of better in than out?
This may be useful, I struggle with compliments. I do not know how to manage them. They make me uncomfortable. I usually make a self deprecating comment. I have struggled all my life with being assertive. I ask nicely, repeat myself, become frustrated and then do it myself. Or if it was my kids I would then yell. This was a major reason for my mismanagement of myself in life.
Thank you JellyB, I love you, you are a beautiful kind caring soul. I aspire to become like you and I am thankful to have you in my life. Be well
Thank you Mutatio for responding to my post to you.
Your whole response resonated so much for me. I see much of myself in your comments. Anger and conflict scare me. I am a naturally peaceful and passive person. I do however have a temper when I feel misunderstood or not appreciated. It doesn't come out has angry, rather tears flow and I become emotional beyond all reason.
Knowing that I don't want to see this side of myself to come out, because this person, this ME, is manipulative and unkind and has at times been abusive to my partners. So I contain my needs and wants and appease and avoid any conflict at any cost, and the cost more often than not has been me.
Isn't interesting that by attempting to avoid the thing we hate most unkindness, anger, violence, we create it.
I read your post Mutatio and I see the man you are, it is unmistakable that you have aligned your beliefs and values with action. My sense is however that your internal self, the one that looks you back in the mirror and knows where all your vulnerable places are, isn't quite convinced that you are indeed a good man.
JulieH has kindly brought to my attention the nasty habit of self deprecation and I have had to look this widely in the eye in the last week. I wonder if you too would benefit from an up close and personal look at this one.
When I read your posts it clear the work you have done to be a better husband and father. But I do wonder if Mutatio will ever allow himself off the hook for not being those things sooner. My sense could well be wrong on this. I'm not sure if you have ever fully forgiven yourself for being less than. And I am not quite sure if you can't forgive yourself, how can W?
With the two loves that I have been fortunate enough to have. I spent most of the relationships if not all feeling less than. My self contempt has been a legacy from childhood. Unfortunately it has sabotaged my relationships. Mr Ex and Mr M, both wanted an equal, a partner, someone who valued themselves as much as they wanted to value me. My intentions in my relationships were always honorable, much like yours. However my inability to truly see myself as a equal, to truly give and receive resulted in their demise.
How can any partner respect and love you, if you can't do it for yourself. I have spent the last 14 months forgiving myself for not being the perfect partner, the person, the perfect child.
You are no longer the drinker, the yeller, the bully, the imperfect child, the imperfect husband. You just are!
I'm not sure if any of the above makes sense. I hope there is some value in it for you. I learn lots about myself posting to you Mutatio. So thank you for your patience with me.
My wife was nicer to me today then in a long time. I used to get excited about the possibilities. Now I know to enjoy it but not view it as a sign. I really miss that smile and appreciate it every time I see it.
I LOVE how you are trying to live the life of ZERO expectations! Without your pressure, she is free to smile more often. People love to smile and laugh, but it is so hard when you are expected to smile and laugh.
Just take the smile as a moment of pleasantness and see if maybe you can get another one next week. Don't look for one before then. You might be surprised that if you do not look for it, it suddenly appears.
Me: 42 H: 45 M: 18 yrs T: 20 yrs D: 17 D: 15 S: 12 I kicked him out 8/21/15 I will DB until March 21st 2017, that is it!
When we are told love is a choice, the originating emotion within us is a state we choose to keep and direct towards others. The others are the choice, staying in the state is a choice. Other emotions have choices too, anger disgust sadness joy and fear. Having the emotion is involuntary, keeping in that state, chosing to hold on is a choice.
Similarly another has choices, they can choose to feel love anger disgust etc about us.
Each of us chooses it is our bodies our thoughts and our beliefs. Just because we feel love for another won't mean they feel that for us. They can choone differently.
Our love may be intertwined with a feeling in the other which is counter to the one we require. For instance my stbxwh told my L "I love V". This triggered great fear in me, PTSD in fact. I prefer he said he had zero feelings. If this were true, his feelings, his choice, then the greater the love then the greater my fear. I love WH and am unafraid of my own love, it is his statement that causes me fear not my own. Consider if my feeling was disgust or sadness rather than fear in response to his statement. The more the love the greater the response in the other.
In this way love is personal to us. As LBS we hold it dear, it is our strength and grounding. I think our choice to hold this love in our hearts is a brave one. Do so without expectation of reciprocation. The other may choose to respond to it with another emotion.
You wait until your W responds back with love. This is her choice, and she is more likely to make that choice if she senses you are letting go. I believe this.
Mutatio, you are capable of great love, that of itself is remarkable. You perceive you have no power, that isn't so, you have the power over you, change your dynamic and the interaction changes. It must change as one or the other changes. You don't need me to remind you, you change you and who you are.
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 12/09/1507:09 AM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Thank you for thinking of me V. I have experienced brief moments of insight along the lines of what you have described. I believe I am headed in that direction but it seems I am taking a serpentine approach to get there. I am okay with this as I am evolving other ways simultaneously.
I would love to continue our exploration of my mind if your up for it. Thanks again for taking the time to share your wisdom with me.
