You know your W is involved in EA/PA, she hasnt shown remorse, she admits to stringing along OM yet you both kiss on lips? If this is so, why do you accept it? Not criticizing, just curious.
The reason that I accept this is that I don't KNOW that she is STILL involved in an EA. Weird as it sounds, I don't think she'd kiss me if she was. I know I'm vacillating and going against what I said even yesterday, but I'm not sure what's going in terms of the EA.
Not sure if I'm being to too trusting or hopeful....
Me-38 W-38; T-15 M-12; S10 and S6 BD - July 2016; EA confirmed; confronted Aug 2015 EA dissolved 12/2016
Never make someone a priority when all you are to them is an option - Maya Angelou
I'm still wrestling with the questions of remorse and withdrawal. Did she express these emotions, but in a way I didn't translate properly? And if she was conflicted at the time I confronted her, would she express herself normally? Communication problems contributed to the decline of our marriage and still need to be addressed going forward
As for her grieving, if she cries privately does that make it less impactful? I'd prefer that she feels open enough to share her pain with me, but given the amount of pain she says she felt before she became wayward I can't see that happening overnight.
Bottom line, I need to start a dialogue(s) with her to explain 1) my insecurity, 2) my need for remorse/apology, 3) that it's OK for her to grieve for the relationship with the OM (as long as it remains in the past tense). I just don't know how/when to start that conversation.
Another question is how open I should remain. What is too much? Ideally, the door should be left open. I can't drag my wife through the door, nor can I wait expectingly with a bouquet of roses should she walk in. What exactly does open and willing look like to me and my W? I am still struggling with this.
Me-38 W-38; T-15 M-12; S10 and S6 BD - July 2016; EA confirmed; confronted Aug 2015 EA dissolved 12/2016
Never make someone a priority when all you are to them is an option - Maya Angelou
A further complication is that the OM was also a good friend of mine and spent lots of time with our kids. Seems like my W was using him as a Plan B remarriage (although I'm pretty sure he wants nothing to do with raising another family). He is now dead to me and I will not allow him into our house. He has no more contact with my kids.
It's tough and calls for tough measures. If he's M with kids, his W & kids can no longer be friends with yourW & kids. And obviously, no friendship with OM. It feels like surgery, but it's necessary to cut out the cancer and the area around it. No more meetings with W & OM's mutual friends. She will want to excuse it, but it's a connection and will feed the addiction.
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She was extremely transparent right after I revealed I knew something was up, although I never told her what I knew or how I knew it. I believe my phrasing for the confrontation was "I'm going to ask you some questions, some of which I already know the answers to. Now is your chance to tell the truth." I never showed her my evidence or how I got it. But she's smart enough to figure out one of my sources... For awhile she made a point of leaving her phone in front of me and walking away for hours. I didn't check because I didn't feel the need to and I would obsess over any little thing I found.
I doubt it was legit, b/c she had herself covered before she just laid her phone down and walked away,practically giving youan invitation to look. She had any criminating evidence deleted, rest assured. In a real transparency, it is up to you to look when she least expects it.
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She has more remorse that she got caught and felt (maybe still feels - I'm not sure) that she did nothing wrong since she never had sex with him. But there are indications that there was plenty going on that was inappropriate (kissing/hugs/sexting). I'm not sure how to change this dynamic without it blowing up in my face. For now I'm focusing on my feelings and goals.
Until she feels remorse for what she's done, instead of just sorry she got caught, it's a smoke screen. None of it is legit until she get herself out of the middle and cares about the damage she's done to you and the kids.
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agree, but am not sure how to approach this. The plan I'm working on is to tell her I'm feeling nervous again and am having trust issues (without trying to accuse her of anything), and ask for reassurance. At that point she will have the opportunity to alleviate my fears or not. But I think it's the only way I'll be able to trust her again, as much as I hate to admit it. I'll present a plan based on your guidelines. Honestly, I hope to not need to use it, but there a few good topics of conversations that can be had based on mundane findings (why are you still FB friends? Why didn't you uninstall that chat app?)
IMO, I would not tell her you feel scared, nervous, etc. Due to the nature of the WW, this is likely to cause her to feel discuss. (Sorry, I know it's harsh words.). She has to see you being a man's man, full of convidence in yourself (as a man). It doesn't mean you have confidence in the M or her.....just yourself. She is not turned on, or even care, that you feel nervous.
Study up on personal boundaries. They are set to protect you, help you feel safe, and calm your nervousness.
Right now, don't worry too much as to why she claims she wants to switch jobs. She must relocate her job as part of her process in breaking the addiction. She must end FB with OM, looking at his pictures, reading about him through other FB friends. She will never get over him as long as she does these things.
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This is my fear. She said she wants to work on the M to see if she can find feelings for me again. Red flag for me. especially since she told me that was stringing along the OM as a plan B because she "doesn't want to be a single mom."
Very possible, however, I can tell her it won't work. Feelings for you won't come back as long as she's holding OM in the wings. Even if she completely ends the A, as long as he's in her head, she won't feel desire for you. Women can have sex with a lot of men, but they will truly desire/love only one at a time. unfortunately, many a WW will tell her H she'll try and see if she feels anything, but it's a stall tactic.
You will think things are improving b/c you two are getting along better......even enjoying time as a family. Most WW's want the family time, but they don't want the sexual intimacy. We call it cake eating when they want the best of both worlds (family & OM).
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
You will think things are improving b/c you two are getting along better......even enjoying time as a family. Most WW's want the family time, but they don't want the sexual intimacy. We call it cake eating when they want the best of both worlds (family & OM).
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So if there is no physical intimacy she is still thinking about OM?
If they decide to have a go at repairing, how long before intimacy would kick in from her? I presume she would need time to fall back in love.
Understanding the goal concerning PI would be sex, should there not be a build up gradually as she warms to H?
So if there is no physical intimacy she is still thinking about OM?
Sorry if I implied that no physical intimacy meant she was still thinking about OM. Although, it can be a sign in some cases. It depends upon the individual woman.
Some women continue having sex with the H while they also have sex with the OM. But for the majority of the stories I've read, the desire for her H is gone......and won't return as long as she has OM in her thoughts. I think Hollywood has caused people to believe women can really love (sexual desire) two men at once. It makes a good story.
The feelings his W is referring to having for him is the desire for him. Women can only love one man at a time, although they may have sex with two men. Most women who have given their heart to OM, do not suddenly desire to have her H again, b/c women aren't like men in that respect. She will either connect emotionally with the man during sex, or she'll have the sex for some other reason (duty, pressure, expectations, etc.).
If the woman has had an EA/PA/IA, she won't emotionally connect with her H until she gets the OM out of her thoughts, and therefore won't experience desire (loving feelings) for her H. She has to get one man out of her emotional bed before she can let in another man, b/c for a woman, it involves her emotions. That's how women are wired. Yes, they can physically perform sex even if they aren't feeling anything for him, b/c she basically can just lay there, if nothing else. However, she will not experience those in-love feelings, just b/c she's having sex.
She may consent to engage (or not), b/c she's basically out to prove to her H that she no longer has feelings for him. Therefore, she can say that she tried, but it didn't work.
When a woman is serious about saving her M, she can't have this attitude of "seeing if I feel anything" b/c it's sure to fail. Other things have to take place first. It takes time for her to get over one man and start having desirous feelings for another. Again, maybe this is difficult four men to understand, IDK. I wish I could explain it better.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
My only doubt is that sex lets say is the ultimate goal for a 100% dedication.If there is no sex after xxx months something is wrong?
Along the way I presume she will become warmer to H or does it flip in a short time. Does having an EA or PA reboot her sexual desire if she does decide to return home or will it be as it was before?
As you know, when we men get involved we clean up our appearance and try new things. If we get to return to our W we bring them home and whether it stays or not depends on W acceptance.
Does same happen with W?
Also, if during xx months all he gets is a kiss when she leaves or comes home while still acting like a normal W is that because OM is still in head or is she rewiring herself?
If they decide to have a go at repairing, how long before intimacy would kick in from her? I presume she would need time to fall back in love.
Understanding the goal concerning PI would be sex, should there not be a build up gradually as she warms to H?
If she is serious about saving the M, instead of the usual "I'll try and see where it goes", then the couple should take it slowly. Give her time to get through withdrawals. Nobody can put it is time frame.
The man's goal is usually physical intimacy. The woman's goal is usually emotional intimacy. For a woman, when her emotionally intimacy is fulfilled, the physical is the icing on the cake. If men only understood they when they start at the right end.......then they get the cake, icing, and ice cream!
I really believe there is one way to measure her physical desire. It's how she responds to the H's kiss. The more passionate her kiss, the more her "heart" is into him. Many waive has tolerated sex, and hardly even give as much as peck during the entire act. But if she's into "him".........wanting him.......it will show in how she responds to his kisses, and/or initiates them herself.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
