as_it_is - my advanture continues (part 5)

[asitis]

So today W said she had talked to the mediator I had found through my contacts. She was supposed to schedule a meeting for us. Instead she said the mediator strongly recommended cooperative law for us, over having someone self-represent. She went ahead and scheduled a meeting with her to have her be her L and would forward a list the L had of others in the area who did cooperative law.

I was dumbfounded at her making a decision without consulting on how to proceed with something that was supposed to be collaborative & cooperative. And that she in a sense was poaching the L I found to do mediation. I also raised that I didn't think the alternative was for one of us to self-represent and based on what I knew I didn't think cooperative law was clearly better for us.

I asked that we go back to the idea of us meeting w/ this woman as mediator and explore the path ahead before committing. W was baffled that I wanted to consult w/ this mediator when this person had so clearly said that cooperative law was the better approach. I responded that I wasn't so sure that she would say this if she understood that my intention was to have a mediator help us with most of the issues and then we'd both consult Ls (possibly cooperative Ls at that point) so that we both had legal advice. W couldn't grasp my point and the distinction. I'm the one who has researched this, and she was making a decision I wasn't comfortable with based solely on a 5 minute phone conversation with this L (w/ the kids nagging her in the background) based on supposed advice that suggested that W & L were not communicating clearly and that what I was wanting to explore was option C.

Anyway, W acknowledged the screw up on poaching the L at least. She also said that her pattern has been when negotiating w/ me that she starts to get stressed & confused, and therefore doesn't express or attend to her needs. I acknowledged this, and was just asking that we sit down with the mediator present to help us arrive at an agreement that W felt comfortable with. I also raised that having 2 Ls involved with multiple meetings was not just more expensive, but would likely slow things down, as we had to find times for all 4 of us to meet. Further, one of us would have to find a second L from among the list, which could further slow things down.

W was getting very stressed. So we got back on what we agreed about, then about how this was a big life decision that we wanted to get behind us but not at the expense of us both being comfortable. She said she just wanted time to think because she was feeling confused at the moment.

I reassured her that I didn't want her to be in that position, that I understood, and wanted her to feel comfortable. All I was asking for is that we sit down w/ the mediator and talk through, that I may come to agree with the cooperative law approach, and she may change her mind once we talk through the issue. It was one meeting, not a delay of months.

She went back to her office to cry. Felt bad for her, but she is bringing this on and I'm not being unreasonable. I had to confer on the kids and another issue, so I sent her an e-mail, and included that this was stressful on both of us, I appreciated that we are able to talk this through, that I was concerned with all of getting what was best, that I had repeatedly gone along with her rather than resisting even though I didn't always agree with her and didn't plan to change. I added that on this matter, if it was just a matter of I preferred X and she preferred Y, unless there was a show-stopper, if we couldn't agree I would choose her approach. It wasn't worth in my book, and it wasn't who I was.

We'll see how she handles this, but I've given her the tentative win in a way that gives her the best shot at stepping back and reconsidering the idea of the meeting. As I pointed out, cooperative law requires cooperation to work, I'm cooperating, and it wouldn't work without her also being willing to cooperate. I would respect that she is insecure about protecting her interests, and that I was factoring that into my decision-making.

It was tense and stressful, and she may be unsettled and upset, but I showed w/ both words & deeds that she was getting someone who would support her with full awareness that she has a pattern of not caring for herself. Even while it was stressful and unpleasant, she had a partner who would work well with her in this very tough time. I'd bet that she's not happy with me right now, and there is nothing I can do to have her see that this was fundamentally different than the past dynamics, but I walked the walk and planted a seed.

The fun continues. I have the kids tonight for father-son dinner. So, at least I can put today behind me knowing I did well and enjoy my time with my kids.

[Avanti]

Asitis, some big steps, congratulations.

Now is the time to not get ahead of yourself, plan what you are going to do to continue the wooing.

Keep it light, keep it infrequent but enough. Gently, gently. A plan will help make sure you do that or else there is the chance that you will over step, smother, or something that'll set things off into a tailspin.

I'm not pouring cold water here, just sounding a note of caution to ensure you continue setting out breadcrumbs for your wife to follow as throwing the whole loaf of even a complete slice will frighten her off and you'll potentially be back to square one with even more work to do.

[asitis]

Thanks for the warning. DB coach & I talked through this pitfall as well. Don't make a habit of flirting, and when I do, it is always drive-by. Make the comment and exit. That way it can't become uncomfortable.

Also, we are working on changing our housing arrangement so that I can move into the apartment while protecting my interest in the house. That will give us both more space.

And, we need to get through the negotiation phase and at least have an agreement before she is going to be possibly able to relax a bit. Yesterday was planting a seed for the future. It needs to lie fallow a bit before it can break dormancy. Then a little food, water, and weeding (sorry, I'm a serious gardener) might help nurture a healthy plant growing.

[asitis]

So just dropped the kids off w/ W. I asked if my e-mail helped. She sighed and said yes - thanks. I told her I know it's hard, but we'll get through it; I'm here for you and I'm onboard, understand, and am working to make this work for all of us. She thanked me again. And then light-hearted talk about the kids and this weekend (I'm taking them over at the apartment rather than our usual switch - kids are excited, I don't have to move, and W is happy to be able to get some things done around the house wo/ the kids underfoot).

A very tense day at times, but a very, very good one. Fighting and conflict can be very good for our Rs if handled right. I'm very happy with my keeping the eye on the important things - being the thoughtful, supportive, spouse who is willing to give ground for the good of the other and the R while still standing up for myself and what I believe is right. It was a good reminder that in the heat of the moment, it may feel very stressful and full of danger, but it can be a very good thing to go through for the R.

W was in her PJs when I dropped them off. It was hard to resist. They weren't particularly sexy, just regular old pants and top, but there is only one layer between the feeling of her body under the touch of your hand. That is a magical thing (at least for me). I miss that a lot. I'm glad she felt relaxed enough around me to be wearing them when I dropped the kids off. It was a long, hard day for her. I really don't think she was conscious of what she was doing by being in them when I came, and I don't want to make too much of whether or not in meant anything significant that unconsciously she seemed to be showing a level of trust and comfort with me, but it was a positive end of day. Still, I so badly wanted to run my hand over the curve of her a$$ in those damned PJs. So badly.

[Ancaire]

Asitis, I am so impressed with you! You handled the mediator/L conflict beautifully with kindness, patience, and compassion. What a fine example of good will you are!

Can I just say I found your pj musings to be oddly romantic...the longing, the feeling - all unspoken at the time. That was really sweet!

[asitis]

There was lots of longing. I really do love my W. As my DB coach and I talked about: I'll settle for someone less, but I really don't want to. I don't care about the M in the sense of the legal arrangement.

And, it not about my longings right now. It is about what is good for her. Still, I'm going to be thinking about tonight for a while. Touch has always been my love language, and it is very powerful in me. W doesn't really get how significant it is to me, as she sees it somehow as sullied a bit by male horniness. It is so much more. Just the feel and the feeling I can impart to her with a touch. Very little I want more than to touch her tenderly. OK, this is getting really over the top sappy.

[Ancaire]

Sappy, true. But I do understand.

I find it admirable and a fine quality that you hold your W in such high regard. That's a bit harder to find around here after time has passed.

[asitis]

I can see the fear she has. I can see the difficulty she has feeling like she is in control of her life. There is some deep socialization there to not be able to feel like she can keep her interest and needs in mind, and then to stand up for herself. That fear is driving a lot of what is going on. How can you not feel a deep compassion and care when someone you love is struggling like that? It may not mean that our M can be saved, but sometimes there are things that are more important than the legal arrangement. Someone you love deeply and have committed to support is suffering and struggling. You do what you can without letting them take you and the others you love down with them.

Besides, we are able to talk this through. We are able to work together for the good of our boys and with the long-term health of our R in mind, even if we disagree on how best to do that. There is a lot to admire and respect in that, in both of us individually, and us as a couple. She is a loving mother to my beloved boys. I don't agree with her choices, but I understand them. You look around and see the other people who have or are going through this, and we are not going through anything close to how bad most go through. Of course, we still might, but so far.

Even people I respect as warm, loving people, will tell me you want an L who can not be adversarial if that works, but who are really good at playing hardball if necessary for your interests. For all that I can fault my W for some of her choices, she very clear that that is a path she wants to avoid at all costs, and that I share with her. That takes a lot during a very difficult time in our R, in which there are strong - often unconscious - impulses to hurt and to see blame to protect oneself from the guilt of what they are asking for. Having a little understanding of this helps one to see the person differently and begin dancing the dance a bit more healthily.

[gonegrl]

How are you doing As?

[asitis]

Busy, but good. S6 has been struggling a bit, most likely from starting to transition from them staying in the house to me staying at the apartment & them coming over (plus they put them through violent intruder drills last week - does more harm than good IMHO). Whatever the reason, it was a tough weekend for him.

We had fun going to our rec center with his daycare on Saturday night for lots of fun in the pool. Had to run over to the house to get the kids' & my swim trunks. Txt'ed W to ask if she'd be out so I could do so. She said she wasn't sure, so just come whenever. When I get there, she's in the shower. Comes out of the bathroom with just a robe on, holding it closed as as the belt is missing. Starts chatting w/ the kids and me. I wanted to say: "You're naked under there. WTF do you think the impact on someone who has gone wo/ for a year and a half and still wants to be w/ his W would be to see here w/ just some fleece between ..." Definitely not someone who is currently feeling uncomfortable to be seen in her PJs or robe around me.

On Monday, she screwed up a meeting she was supposed to go to. I was just leaving work to go pick up S6 at school. Got a call from W letting me know that she screwed up and therefore didn't have the meeting, knew I was busy and wanted to see if I wanted her to go pick S6 up. This was the first act of initiated consideration towards me in a whole long time. I said yes, turned around. Passed each other on path between parking lot & office. She waives, I thank her again and say I really appreciate your thinking of my needing to get work done.

She gets to S6's school, turns out the snacks I delivered never got from the school office to the teacher. She txts me: Ughh! Snacks never got taken back to Mrs. X. It wasn't criticism, just sharing a little wrinkle in the day. She hasn't initiated txt just passing on something about her day in a whole long time either.

Strong mixed messages coming from that one. Definitely a change. Not making much of it, as she is still wanting to pursue negotiations. I still think she feels driven to hammer out a settlement so she can relax a bit. Still likely needs to either live on her own for a long while or D before she can address some of her issues. For now, keep doing what I'm doing.