as_it_is - my advanture continues (part 5)

[mutatio]

“You're an interesting species. An interesting mix. You're capable of such beautiful dreams, and such horrible nightmares. You feel so lost, so cut off, so alone, only you're not. See, in all our searching, the only thing we've found that makes the emptiness bearable, is each other.” ― Carl Sagan, Contact

We are all the same, different countries, different genders, different levels of education, different experiences and we're all the same.

[asitis]

Nice.

[WhyUs]

Just watched that movie again 3 weeks ago.

[Avanti]

Of course, but your suggestions have been getting me thinking. I do want to date my wife. Not get back into our marriage, but to date her. Not be friends, although that may have to precede the dating, but to woo her again. I'm going to bring up w/ my coach going a bit beyond just being attractive when around her. We can go ahead and sell the house and live apart, for however long while we figure out if we can rekindle the spark and develop a better set R dynamics. How to do that without scaring her further away (because she is scared - under all that anger is fear of not being loved and cherished) is the tricky part. I'm sure DB coach will turn that impulse into something productive even if it wasn't what I intended.

No matter. I'll sit on until Tuesday.

As always, very wise asitis.

BTW, in case you are wondering why those of us who have some training in counseling and Rs can't fix our own marriage, my good friend in the program who has a MA in marriage and family therapy, just had her long-time boyfriend break up with her. She's really good, has good instincts and insights when it comes to my sitch, but I'm having to talk her down from doing things she knows don't work. I keep saying, "you know that that won't work..." And she keeps responding, yes, you're right. And then it is to the next topic & I we go through the routine again. I feel really bad for her, as she is going through a lot with other demands on her, and didn't need this. It is fairly clear that her BF has a couple issues (I was able to peg them immediately, which she confirmed, but had forgotten). In the fog of BD, even someone with the knowledge and instincts flails.

So to everyone out there struggling, go easy on yourself. It happens to all of us. It doesn't means she's not a good MC, because she is. It means we all need to turn to others when it's us.

So are you saying that therapists aren't human!? If so, you've just shattered an illusion. :-)
Seriously though, thank you for being so open, it is very easy to think the person sitting in the other comfy chair during a session is super-human, it's nice to have it confirmed they have failings too.

[Zephyr]

Hey as, thank you for all of your insight. I try to read just about everything you post...it is helpful.

About the therapists being human. All I've ever seen are very detached and understandable. My last session two weeks ago he actually got choked up when I was discussing my pain and determination. It was nice to feel like he was more than a robot and he actually cares about my family (even though he has not met them).

Anyways didn't even think about that till you shared so thank you!

[PigPen]

Been reading Storms Can't Hurt the Sky As. Great recommendation and lots of gems of getting through this experience with the most knowledge gained and composure kept.

Appreciate it and you. Man hug.

PP

[asitis]

In my book, the best therapists/counselors are those who show they are human in response to their client's humanity. That said, we'd go crazy if we let our clients' moods pull us around by the nose. And, some client's want desperately for their counselor to be superhuman and save them. There are good counselors and bad counselors, but there are no perfect ones for everyone. Most of us work well for most of our clients. None of us work well for everyone. Period. And, certainly none of us work well for ourselves. We all need help, as part of our advantage is being able to not be too enmeshed in the client's situation.

When I interact with my fellows, it is as friends with the skills of counselor, but that is still different than how we would interact in a therapeutic relationship. We offer each other a lot more advice, for instance. But, we've also built up our relationships over time, and talk the same language. We still need our own therapists no matter how good our friendships are. It's not either/or, but both/and.

[asitis]

So are you saying that therapists aren't human!? If so, you've just shattered an illusion. :-)
Seriously though, thank you for being so open, it is very easy to think the person sitting in the other comfy chair during a session is super-human, it's nice to have it confirmed they have failings too.

The dharma transmitted teachers I have in my Buddhist practice are human also. They wouldn't be able to relate, empathize, and help if they weren't. There is not overcoming. Sorry to break it to you all. There is just working better with what life hands us. And when it's our own sh*t, we all struggle. Thankfully. Imagine a life in which we didn't. I mean really. It would be so dull and lack growth. We wouldn't be able to become more enlightened and skilful in practice if we didn't remain human and struggle with the same sh*t we all do. We never overcome. And that's a really, really great thing when you think deeply about it.

[Avanti]

You are so right asitis. If life was the uneventful idyl that many seem to wish for, it would soon become very boring. The peaks and troughs make for an interesting and fulfilling life, even if there's stuff in it we'd rather not have.

[asitis]

So two days of good DBing (at least according to my coach). First, W & I were conferring on some things in her office, and a related subject came up so I let her know that I still loved her, that I knew we needed to live apart for a good while no matter what, as she needs to feel like she has a space & life she feels in control of and because it would be tense otherwise. That said, I'd like to become friends and start dating her again once the dust of negotiating an agreement was settled. She said that she'd like to start getting together to talk about things not related to our R or the kids in a few months, but the stress of negotiating a D was all she could take right now. I agreed, and said that is part of why I am not dragging my feet on getting to an agreement.

I told her that I didn't care out the M or getting D or whether we just negotiated a long-term separation, what I wanted was her to be my friend, lover, and co-parent. I didn't want someone else, and despite some of the things she has done that have hurt, I still do love her. I also mentioned that we both needed anything like that to go slowly so we could re-build trust and the bonds, and how any therapist worth their salt knows that this is possible, but doesn't come before both members of the couple put some effort into the R. We aren't at that stage right now.

She didn't stop me, but she did close the door so I could continue with her feeling a bit less exposed in case she broke down. I reaffirmed that I agreed that she needs to be in charge or her life for a while and that any steps back towards each other can only happen when she is not afraid that I'll be pushing for reconciliation.

Afterwards, we talked about the lack of break up sex and how long we have both gone without. I of course offered no-strings-attached solutions to our mutual problem, which didn't seem to raise her hackles.

Ran into her a few minutes later going down stairs, and told her I really liked that dress on her, and that I just liked dress, but that it was especially nice on her. She agreed and then said she wished it had sleeves so she didn't need to wear a cardigan w/ it when it wasn't warm and cut so low that she had to wear a tank under it. I told her that I sure didn't mind how low it was cut. Then said my goodbyes and went off to a meeting. Sort of drive-by flirting.