as_it_is - my advanture continues (part 5)

[gonegrl]

Well I hope you at least gave her a good tip!

[Avanti]

Some crude individuals might say he was thinking of giving her more than that but his boys were there so smutty innuendo is not appropriate.

[asitis]

Yes... some. But we don't know anybody like that, now do we?

[asitis]

So W e-mailed to ask if we could meet on Wed. @ 2, as the calendar showed us both available & we wouldn't need a babysitter.

First thought is to hesitate, let her stew. No, I'll see her in the morning when I pick up S6 for school. Second thought is to get irritated that she is pushing things.

Wrote back: "Good catch. Absolutely. I'll put it on the calendar." Chuckle to myself. Not just for hitting her w/ something upbeat and unexpected, but that I quickly reframed the sitch for myself from a negative to, what time we have our meeting and her wanting to push forward are just where she is, and I can either be irritated, hurt, and resentful, or I can embrace reality as it is (I chose the screen name for a reason, after all).

So, it looks like coffee w/ W on Wednesday. Then I take the kids out to have dinner and on to a fun night out with my classmates at a pumpkin patch w/ a bouncy house. I suspect she'll try to do something that to show her irritation and anger [at me] as a pre-emptive defense. I'd bet dollars to donuts that she has read the babysitter cancelling on us into agitation w/ me for dragging her guilt and pain out. She doesn't normally write late night e-mail, so she was up and needing to find a way to move things along. I know I can't relieve her pain, and no matter how I responded will likely trigger a reaction at some point to project that pain out onto me. It isn't about me. It's not a game to be played. No response will make a difference in the short run. Maybe my upbeat, surprising response will help (a tiny bit) her let go of her pain in the longer term and enhance the chance for a good R in D. Who knows. Just getting to that point helped me let go while not worsening the R - as far as I can see.

[asitis]

BTW, I created & then deleted a profile on an online dating site. I knew I wouldn't go forward, but it was a first toe dip into the water. No picture, not much thought on what to put. Just wanted to look at the possibilities out there on one of the main sites. Slim pickings if you ask me - can they not actually use my screening criteria of things like non-smoker in the results? Think I'll stay w/ the old tried and true standbys of actually interacting with someone first when the time comes. Still, I recognized that I had taken another step along the path.

And, no need to warn me about the dangers of vulnerability. I'm well aware of them, and know I'm not ready to do more than that tiny toe dip.

[Avanti]

...Wrote back: "Good catch. Absolutely. I'll put it on the calendar." Chuckle to myself. Not just for hitting her w/ something upbeat and unexpected, but that I quickly reframed the sitch for myself from a negative to, what time we have our meeting and her wanting to push forward are just where she is, and I can either be irritated, hurt, and resentful, or I can embrace reality as it is (I chose the screen name for a reason, after all)...

Nice one!

...I suspect she'll try to do something that to show her irritation and anger [at me] as a pre-emptive defense. I'd bet dollars to donuts that she has read the babysitter cancelling on us into agitation w/ me for dragging her guilt and pain out. She doesn't normally write late night e-mail, so she was up and needing to find a way to move things along. I know I can't relieve her pain, and no matter how I responded will likely trigger a reaction at some point to project that pain out onto me...

If you read a post like this from someone else would you suggest that they are mind reading?

...It isn't about me. It's not a game to be played. No response will make a difference in the short run. Maybe my upbeat, surprising response will help (a tiny bit) her let go of her pain in the longer term and enhance the chance for a good R in D. Who knows...

A really good mindset.

[asitis]

So a bit down today. W & I had our second negotiation. Went fairly well. Some small talk, no arguments. When we got on the introducing new people she said she would like to be free to start dating if the opportunity came up. We had previously said we would inform the other that we were going to start so that we heard it from the other rather than second or third hand. She said she didn't have anyone in the wings, but she had been asked to coffee by someone who she didn't have an interest in, but who she wasn't sure whether he considered it a date or just coffee. She said she didn't want to feel like she had to determine that or feel like if it ended up turning into a date, that she would have violated our agreement.

She said that she was not ready for romances at this point, and we agreed that if we started going on multiple dates with a person we would let the other know. I had said that I was considering friend dates, but not imagining being ready for romance either, that I would have preferred going out w/ W, but as she isn't interested I want to be open to going out to do things. This seemed to be where we both were.

It still hurt a bit, and I felt sad. I was planning to raise the topic myself, but it still is uncomfortable to hear her voice this shift.

I know it doesn't mean anything necessarily, and she may even have to try to date to get beyond some of her issues and reconsider trying reconciliation. In other words, I recognized that it doesn't mean anything other than what it appears, as neither of us has an idea where it will lead. But all sorts of feelings of loss and a bit of feeling betrayed did bubble up.

Any way, I'm officially cleared to dip my toe in the dating market if I choose. Not sure how I feel about it. I want to, but I want to make sure that it isn't mostly a reaction to her request.

I have the kids tonight & tomorrow, as I'm going to the monastery for sesshin this weekend. I'm taking the kids out to a pumpkin patch with people in my program. Normally, I only get to interact w/ people in my cohort, so this will be good.

W is going to set up a mediation meeting for the next few weeks so we can have a better idea what we need to work on to move the process along in our meetings. I gave her something on parenting plans and some of the issues we would want to address in an agreement.

We also talked about her being angry still. She explained that she was still angry at our past dynamic. I just listened and validated. I have to admit that it is frustrating that this seems to be her big issue and that she doesn't want to wait out her anger and then try to work on the dynamic now that both of us have changed. It is baffling that with kids that this is the path she is choosing. If the dynamic has already changed, if we could work w/ an MC to work to ensure that we build a new, healthy dynamic, and it is mostly just continued anger that we had the dynamic that is the problem that she is not willing to just wait that out. I know that she feels she can't re-fall in love as long as she feels this anger and the awkwardness and stress of interacting given this, but it defies logic not to see that as something that time and work will likely take care of.

Just baffling, and sad.

[Avanti]

OK, so here's a thing and you will probably smile and think I've gone nuts Asitis. Why not invite her for coffee? Tell her you are going to a particular spot at x o'clock and it'd be great if she could make it. If she doesn't respond or says no, do it anyway and ask her again a few weeks. If she turns up don't talk about your R or M, keep it light, no work stuff either. Create a new secret world for the two of you, weave the magic that you did when you first got together.

If you were going to woo a new woman, what would you do? You'd look to create a spark but you'd take it slow, right? So woo your wife, show her the fun new you (she's probably only seeing serious you most, if not all of the time). Your wife has said she's thinking about coffee with other guys, why not you?

It's asking you to be vulnerable and that's scary but what do we do in the early stages of a R? We make ourselves vulnerable bit by bit.

Sure you are talking about nuts and bolts stuff regarding your marriage in arranged meetings but creating another world over time that you could both also be in may spark her interest. Be slow, but be bold, slowly and I mean slowly build the romance. No grand gestures, nothing like that, be light, be fun, be confident, be spontaneous.

If nothing comes of it, so what, you've not lost anything and maybe worked out a few things you could do for the next woman in your life, if that's what ends up happening.

Nuts moment over, I'll get back to being crackers now.

[gonegrl]

Baffling and sad, I agree As. I don't get it either. I also think it probably is better not to discuss dating with her until you or her are in an actual relationship with someone. You really don't want to have to run every date by her, or her you. What will that accomplish?

At least your W didn't start dating while you were still married. Take comfort in that.

[asitis]

It's a good idea, except that she has indicated that we can't be friends right now because of her anger.

I just have to let this sit for a while and work through my system before making any decisions or taking any actions or making any statements.

Definitely let some of my frustrations w/ W spill over on the kids tonight. Tried to explain that I had a tough time w/ their mom today and that it was not fair for me to be a bit more snappy than usual, but I asked older one to try to understand and help dad out tonight.

To Photoka:don't worry, it is more a heads up that we are starting to date,not that we are dating any particular person. And, while part of me felt like jumping in with both feet today, I also recognize that I really want to stand up for my M even if is dead for the time being. Next week might be another matter, but it is odd that our conversation actually gave me some hope. Maybe I'm too confident that reason will prevail once some time goes by and the anger slowly dies.

We did talk about how now that the possibility was there how I was noticing how old people my age look,and W agreed and added "and fat." I told her that it made me really appreciate how beautiful I still found her, which she clearly appreciated. I told her that a 20 year-old waitress was flirting w/ me & how weird that was, and she said, well you do look like you are in your mid-30s (I've always passed for much younger, and she has always thought so too). It was a weird sort of commiseration that we will likely both have to date younger if we want someone who doesn't look much older. We are in a relatively small city in the upper midwest (neither are from here), and we've always been aware of how much older and fatter (no offense, as I don't mind a few extra pounds personally, if carried well and there is something attractive about the other person, but when you are just looking around without knowing...) people are here than we are used to, but the reality is striking when you are considering the dating pool.

Wanted to just say, look we have kids together, we still think the other is substantially better looking than people our age, we still share all those interests and values (other than sticking to our marriage, you know, for better or worse), we have changed and grown to not repeat old dysfunctional dynamics, why don't we just give it some time and figure out how she can work on letting her anger go, and trying to start over. Of course I didn't, but very frustrating.

I have another DB coaching session next Tuesday. Will run this latest conversation by her and get her input.

In the meantime, I really sort of wish I could just go find someone who would both be attractive, nice, open to a casual fling but with some ability to be a bit vulnerable and willing to be there in that moment rather than shallow sex and then split. Just a taste. It's not like I want my W right now. I don't find her all that alluring or attractive right now. I just wish I could stop being so d*mn responsible and upstanding, and get on with that aspect of life a bit to go along with getting along in the ways I already am.

[/pity party]