Feet on the ground, head in the sky

[kml]

I think you're good! But now you've got me curious...1 3/4 pages of desired changes? Seriously, you have to share some of the specifics, I'm dying to know!

Surely, if you're Ann Hathaway and he wants Raquel Welch, a boob job was on his list (couldn't he be satisfied with a nice Victoria's secret pushup bra??). What else was on his list? Peroxide blonde? Tummy tuck? Face lift? Butt implants?

It's hard to even imagine what could have been on his list.

I did a few things to please my ex. Began dying my graying hair (ok, that one was a good idea). injected the superficial spider veins on my legs (and ended up with a permanent quasi ulcer on one leg as a complication, plus more spider veins quickly appeared). Started wearing some makeup (and now my current boyfriend tells me he prefers me without any!). Straightened my teeth (had braces as a teen, but some teeth were moving ss I got older.....so glad I did it while it was still on his dime!)

Truthfully, not ALL of his suggestions were bad; but because they always came from that place of his chronic dissatisfaction with me, they always seemed offensive.

Perhaps you could send him a reciprocal list: he should get hair plugs, calf and pec implants, an eye lift and nose job, laser ALL hair off his body, and undergo penile lengthening procedures Plus a large tattoo of your name!

Then again, better not....MLCers are just crazy enough to do it.

[mleigh4]

Again, I see complete PA behavior. Aside from this asinine letter, I'm sorry but it is really ticking me off. Is he perfect or something???? I can't even fathom writing a list of flaws to someone.... But the fact that he is turning the focus from his letter to your reaction, and making you feel GUILTY about being upset....it's cruel and abusive.

Please read up on PA. You will not only drop your jaw when the light bulb goes off, but it teaches you how to deflect the behavior and accept the issue is in THEM. not you. My H is very PA and consistently made me feel bad for my reactions to things he did that were WRONG and not nice. He made me feel crazy for getting upset, I see so much of this in your posts. Please learn how to deal with and turn around this behavior, I think it will help a lot.

[claire7]

^^^ me too. Omg. I don't miss being accused of being overly sensitive or crazy for my very normal reactions to very mean and disrespectful behavior!!

I honestly don't think you can talk him into understanding. People with a broken empathy chip just cannot understand someone else's perspective by definition!

[job]

He married you, not for your looks, but for the person that you are. You could put a salad bowl on your head and dance naked around the pole and he still wouldn't be happy. Whatever you do, don't pretzel for him. No matter what you say or do, he will always come up with some hair brain excuse and produce another list of things he wants changed.

How about what he needs to change for himself? KML gave you a good suggestion...make a list of those things that you want changed in his appearance and let's see how he likes that list!

Gosh, he didn't marry you for your looks, he married you for the person that you are inside. He's really got an empathy chip problem. I think a Barbie Doll placed in his stocking this Christmas would be the appropriate gift for him this year. Even Barbie's looks are changing more and more each year. LOL!

Please do not allow that man's list of what he thinks you need to do to improve on yourself bring you down. You are perfect in God's eyes and if you are happy w/the way you look...then that is all that matters.

Now, let me see if I can find a huge mirror to send to you so that your "boy" can look at himself and preen to his heart's content.

[HaWho]

Thank you guys! KML- Some of the things he recommended were fine and things that I can easily do. As for the others, I am not ready to post it all. It hurts me dreadfully and I am still working through it all. Working towards blowing it off...

He is overtly ignoring me. He is so mad! He did not eat dinner with us last night. My son had a game and H sat far away from me. He says " good morning boys!" when I am right there too. I am acting as if and letting him have his tantrum.

I realize I should not have agreed to that letter, but fear took over and I acquiesced. Very, very destructive to myself. Because I handled it poorly rather than looking at the message itself, in PA fashion, he deflects totally to how I mishandled a very nasty message. But even if I made no errors he would find some way to deflect.

He is right. I was duplicitous. But I have now explained to him that I was wrong to handle it this way, why I did handle it that way, why I changed my mind and that I feel ashamed over agreeing to the terms. I have admitted my fault.

I planted the seed that it was all off kilter. It was sick for him to expect me to "fix us" via these methods and it was sick for me to comply.

One of the most pathetic things is that my list to him had issues such as: let's spend more time together, let's let go of past wrongs, let's be kind to each other and have a good friendship. Ugh. My entire list was from Sesame Steet and parts of his were from the red light district.

But see, here is the crux of it. He has said he does not want a romantic R with me. That he only feels friend/sister bond with flashes of romantic feelings. So, if this is the case the boundary of not talking about my body should be obvious. Right? Why should he care about his friend/sister's body? If he really was just my friend he would be indifferent on this not as vested/angry as he is.

Job- I tried the salad bowl/dancing naked trick. You were right - it didn't make him happy because I was supposed to dance clockwise around the pole!! Ha ha! Thanks for giving me a burst out loud laugh. I needed it.

I am being tested and I can still die on this hill.

[job]

A lot of these nut jobs come up with lists that are suppose to fix "us". In many cases, they come up with are things that truly will not fix "us" or the relationship. They grasp for straws. I had a list of about 15 items and when I looked at the list, I just laughed my socks off because they had absolutely nothing to do with fixing "us".

My xh told the people he worked with that he was working on the marriage...guess what! The only person who was working on the marriage in between the first time he left and the second time was me. He did absolutely no work on the relationship. I pretzeled for about a few days and came to realize that once you fix one thing on the list, he would come up with another 20. The only person I needed to make me happy was myself and it proved to me that nothing could make him happy because he wasn't happy with himself, both inside and out.

My two cents...only work on the things that you think that you need to fix and are necessary. Don't just fix things because he says so...do them for YOU and if they make YOU happy.

As for him being mad...he'll get over it when it realizes that you aren't going to beg and plead w/him.

[HaWho]

Job - thank you as always.

He has done absolutely no work. He is, however, very adept at saying he tried. As for the things on my list, he did them a couple of times and then forgot all about them. Per your advice, Job, I verbalized my needs. I remember he was VERY surprised by this. He wanted something in writing. He even said: you didn't write anything down for me?"

And even after I read him my wholesome, G-Rated list he still didn't feel bad for his requests. Talk about an empathy chip being broken!

Like I have said, I am slow to process but when I really get things, I get them! I really don't want to be with a person who thinks this way. It is so ridiculously shallow. And that is definitely not the kind of mom I want to be to my kids.

He is not chained to a wall. He wants these things, he has free will and he can go find them.

[AJM]

I realize I should not have agreed to that letter, but fear took over and I acquiesced. Very, very destructive to myself.

Let's get something straight. You did what you did out of fear of losing the relationship. That seems fairly healthy in the early stages of being hit by these "items". i.e. in the early stages you're still operating under the idea that 'we' can be fixed. You're going through the process of identifying the things that could use improvement. And trying to remediate them in an effort to fix the balance. That is normal and was likely a part of all of your normal relationships. It's called compromise and owning your own issues. At least in a normal relationship, it is. And as long as you keep healthy boundaries, there's nothing wrong with trying to please your partner. In fact, if both partners do the same and try to please the other, things work out pretty well.

As long as it stays within healthy boundaries.

What you seem to be struggling with is perspective. Healthy perspective. Also normal, HW.

I think giving yourself pause before response is a good idea. When you do, give yourself a framework of questions that you ask yourself. For example, is what is being said true? Is it a healthy request or hurtful? Is it something that, if I changed, would change the fundamental, core me?

Superficial changes are no big deal if you also like them or are willing to do so. But core changes are a problem. And hurtful or unhealthy changes should be out of bounds.

Same for things said. If not helpful or in your best interest, i.e. you should quit smoking or your heroin habit, then they are without merit. Just anger and should be dropped to the ground.

He is looking for "reasons" in his head. Or so it seems to me. I know when I was in your position, that's what came through loud and clear. She wasn't trying to fix me or us - she was looking for justification. To some degree, I compromised. But after a point, it was beyond healthy. In fact, I likely let it go far beyond that in my efforts.

What I lacked was a broader perspective. I was reactionary. I still treated things "normally" when they weren't. But when I stepped back and gained better perspective, I could more clearly see what was going on.

Your situation may be different, but I see some similarities in his actions and what he says. It's much easier to deflect what you're feeling by criticizing others. Much like it is easier to feel anger than any other emotion. Anger is a base emotion.

The pause will help you see the broader perspective. It won't be easy at first, but stick with the pause. It gets easier to see what's healthy and what is just screwed up spew being projected on you. And your path becomes clearer as well.

Let me be clear. That pause is designed for you, not him. He'll notice and he won't like it. But it's a great thing for him to learn how to deal with and get used to. If he can't figure out how to treat you better and talk to you better, then he'll have to get used to it anyway

You're doing great. I'm sorry to say he may not come out of it in time or at all. But you need to be healthy for you. And for your kids. He'll just have to catch up if he's able. And who knows? It might be part of what it takes for him to be motivated to do so. Time will tell for him. You didn't break him, HW. You can't fix him - only fix you where YOU see it is needed. He's not in a position to offer perspective right now.

AJ

[HaWho]

Wow AJ - thank you SO very much. I appreciate all the guidance. When I get through this, I wonder if I will be able to guide others too. I hope to give back.

Yes, I am learning that the key for me is to pause. The times I have been able to step back and do so, my decision making skills have been so much healthier for me. AJ- I am going to put those questions in my toolbox.

In fact, even in the early days, post BD, when I paused, I was able to make healthy decisions. When H asked for an apartment and to come and go as he pleased, he wanted everything his way and I remember posting: "what's in it for me in this arrangement?" I remember setting that boundary for me and I was not at all afraid to lose him over it. I told him should he decide to move out he would not sleep here whenever he chose.

I am still processing that letter and why my initial reaction was shame, not anger. I am pretty sure I should have felt boiling anger. If I had taken pause and processed that, while setting the fear aside, I would have realized that.

I think I felt shame because as I read it I knew I was going to agree to the terms. Sadly, I remember being thankful that I had a chance to work on fixing us! I was worried the letter would be: I am leaving, I have someone else, etc. In that case I would be powerless to fix it. I was already powerless to fix it.

Another reason that, over time, that letter has bothered me, is that while I was prepared to Mrs. Potato head myself to make him happy he was going through the motions of what I needed from him. (And my items were basic needs.) As more time passed, and he went through fewer and fewer of those motions we were still operating under the assumption that I was going to go fix "us" through me.

AJ - you have dropped this work of "balance" several times. I realize there is no balance in this R. Even in that letter, no where does H say: "it is you I want a R with." I know now I can do my half but only with a person who truly wants to do his half. The problem is he is very good at taking and I am very good at giving.

When I truly ask the question: "what is in it for me in this arrangement?" I get very scared.

I think now is the time that I work on me as though he will never come out of this.

[AJM]

And he may not ever come out of it. That's a possible outcome. It's also possible he will and you won't. I'm more concerned about you at this point, as are the other posters.

I was already powerless to fix it

that right there is the key. You are powerless to "fix it" whatever "it" is. And it's not your place. Do you see that now?

But you do have the power to fix you. You do have the power to figure out how you want to live your life and who you want to be. And with whom. For now it's with your H. I applaud that. I truly do. But I do think that facing that it may not be possible and beyond your control is an important step in your own growth.

Balance? There's always some sort of balance in a relationship. It's not until there is no relationship that there is no balance of some sort, however lopsided it may feel.

One of the hardest parts for me was to take on only what were my issues. To stop taking on hers. Along the way after bd, I took on wayyyyyyy too much that wasn't mine. I took on too much blame, too much responsibility, guilt, etc. Why? I was trying to maintain the balance. To control the outcome, if I'm honest. Once it became clear that was wrong of me and dishonored my relationship (I needed to be sure she was at least kind of stable first; conscious thoughts on my part) I began to jettison the stuff that wasn't mine.

The most freeing thing that ever happened to me was to realize that while I wasn't perfect, I only needed to carry what was mine and no more. The rest I gave back. Not violently. Not angrily. I just gave it back calmly. And each time I felt lighter.

Nobody is perfect. We all contribute in some ways to the success and failures. But that doesn't mean it's an even load by any stretch.

It's a slippery slope to ask "what's in it for me?" There should be some (more?) of that, but be careful on that path. It gets lopsided quickly and spirals down to pure greed and selfishness if not kept in check. But as you do that, you need to stop using him as a guide - he'll be of no use in that regard at this point.

Learn to tune into and trust your feelings. I know for me, that was a slow process to get back to. I was so devastated at the time (aren't we all?) that I lost my trust in my feelings. It was weird and soooo not me. Trying to control wasn't the best option, but I can see how it fit. But looking back, I was able to trust my feelings all along. I just needed to temper them before taking action, because as it turned out there were many more than I could process immediately at the time.

Pause. Breathe. Learn to trust yourself. All good starting points as you re-work towards YOU 2.0

I'll warn you though - you'll have to be brutally honest with yourself in a lot of ways. Some are painful. Do it anyway. In small pieces rather than trying to rush through it. It's worth it.

AJ