Losers: Wayward Wife & LRT (9)

[Dawgs]

As far as what she wants to discuss, STBX didn't propose it as a meeting to really discuss anything. It came off as more of a night to just hang out. It seemed almost like a quasi-date. As in, "Hey, I'm about to D you but I'm still conflicted. Let's hang out just the two of us. Maybe it'll help me make up my mind."

I am new to your thread and lord only knows that my advice may be off the wall, but let me ask you this - is she prideful? Some of the things you posted make me think that she is leaving the door open for you but too prideful to ask herself. Maybe I am reading it wrong, but it sure seems that way. If you truly wonder - and it seems like you do - then what have you got to lose? Maybe the total DB mindset needs to be rethought and you need to actually say let's do this. The OM situation needs to be dealt with, for sure - but if there is part of you that wants yours to work, then why not take a leap of faith?

A great quote to live by: "To try and to fail is to learn. To fail to try is to suffer the inestimable loss of what might have been."

[Defacto]

Az,
Yeah, I was on hiatus as nothing really was happening.

You're right. Thanks for the perspective. I guess the reason I would want her to delay D is because I set a personal goal that once D is final, I would close the door on this R. However, I see your point that figuratively, we've already been divorced since this whole thing started.

[Dawgs]

However, I see your point that figuratively, we've already been divorced since this whole thing started.

If you want to look at it that way, then yes. But from all appearances the door is open.

[sandi2]

is she prideful? Some of the things you posted make me think that she is leaving the door open for you but too prideful to ask herself

That old stubborn pride! Very typical of WW's. I think that's one the factors in the reconciliation that is very hard for her, to get down off her high horse and be humble.

[Dawgs]

I think that's one the factors in the reconciliation that is very hard for her, to get down off her high horse and be humble.

You can go ahead and add my W in there, too...

[Defacto]

As far as what she wants to discuss, STBX didn't propose it as a meeting to really discuss anything. It came off as more of a night to just hang out. It seemed almost like a quasi-date. As in, "Hey, I'm about to D you but I'm still conflicted. Let's hang out just the two of us. Maybe it'll help me make up my mind."

I am new to your thread and lord only knows that my advice may be off the wall, but let me ask you this - is she prideful? Some of the things you posted make me think that she is leaving the door open for you but too prideful to ask herself. Maybe I am reading it wrong, but it sure seems that way. If you truly wonder - and it seems like you do - then what have you got to lose? Maybe the total DB mindset needs to be rethought and you need to actually say let's do this. The OM situation needs to be dealt with, for sure - but if there is part of you that wants yours to work, then why not take a leap of faith?

A great quote to live by: "To try and to fail is to learn. To fail to try is to suffer the inestimable loss of what might have been."

E,
Thanks for stopping by my thread!

In response to your question, STBX is not prideful to a fault but I can tell that she has dug her heels in a bit. Even yesterday, she said that she is contemplating just seeing D through and deal with the loss. She then said that she thinks she would always question her decision. That definitely sounds like the stubbornness that Sandi mentioned.

A few days after the mediation when STBX was expressing reluctance about D, I swung for the fence, took the lead a bit, and offered alternate resolutions for R. Up until yesterday, she hadn't responded.

[Azzork]

However, I see your point that figuratively, we've already been divorced since this whole thing started.

If you want to look at it that way, then yes. But from all appearances the door is open.

Are you suggested that being divorced in any sense means that reconciliation is impossible? In my opinion, it's just a current status. I believe eh tat my relationship with my wife will continue until I'm ready to decide that I am ready to move on to a new one. Not sure when that will be or what will trigger it yet.

But, even if I decide to move on, that doesn't mean that if things work out in some way that we can't R in the future anyway - even if I had previously been closed off to it.

[asitis]

So you've made your intentions clear that you are open to reconciliation. Fine, not it is her decision, pride or not. As long as she knows that you are open to letting her back in the door to see where things might lead, it won't be pride that will likely be the blocking factor IMHO.

When you have your next mediation, making introducing D to OM an agenda item. You need to have an agreement on what the ground rules you will both operate under for the well being of your D. This is not interfering w/ the A, it is about your child. The mediator will be able to educate you on what the recommended approach is on this topic. If you have to do the mandatory training, you'll get this, but not all states require divorcing couples w/ kids to go through this. Generally, don't introduce child to a romantic partner for a year after D is final. And then, don't introduce until both parties have chosen to date each other exclusively. It is best then to notify other spouse to discuss that this introduction will take place, and discuss how to do it in a way that is best for your D.

On the "date," you know the drill: lots of active listening & validation, take nothing personally and don't react to anything as if it is a big deal, and try to be friendly like the two business partners you are at this point. Not dating, not H & W, not even friends. Just friendly but detached.

[Abe31]

One last thing I want to throw in to the mix: Do not discuss R.

Make sure she is coming to you. I think you have your head on right but in the moment you might think to throw a hail mary pass. Don't.
Go with short gains like listening, validating and at the end, ask her how she wants to proceed if things go well.

[asitis]

Agree. Never lose sight of you not initiating R talk, not trying to provoke some change in spouse in one particular action (hail Marys), etc.

That said, you might start off with a reflection. I'm really impressed with us that during this very stressful time that we can sit down together like this and just talk. I really have to say that I respect you, me, and our R that we are able to do this at this time. I couldn't have imagined 4 or 6 months ago being good with just sitting down to do this. You started a conversation that I wasn't even aware that we needed to have. And it has been a time of growth for both of us, even while it has been painful at times. Look at how far we've come sitting here like this. I'm just really impressed with both of us. Has anything surprised you about all this?

Even if she doesn't bite that hook, you've shown respect, you've called attention to something you value in her, you've called attention subtly that you work well together to be able to do this (and you should notice that many, many couples at the stage where you are could not do what you are doing). You've also signalled that you are OK and that she is free to open up without worrying that you will be reactive rather than responding healthily. If she does open up about something she is surprised by, you get a chance to listen and validate, and continue the conversation on a positive or empathy-building line of discussion. This is part of what my DB coach had me do, and her rationale was very strong and reasonable.

Now, I want to warn you that W may drop another bomb on you during this meeting. She may be setting you up to assuage her guilt and tell you something painful in a safe place. You have to be prepared for that, and go into it with a detachment that no matter what she says, you are OK with it. Your life goes on (this is done by not reacting rather than stating you are fine and focused on your life - she won't believe you). You also - and many guys need this as we are often unaware that due to male-female socialization we don't do this - make a safe space for her to express her needs and desires. So,don't focus on the content of what she might hit you with. Your focus is how to show her with your calm, detached, understanding, validating new you, that she is safe to voice her wants and needs with you. With DBing, it is not the content of what they say, but the skillful process you model in your new self, that allows her to express her needs, be heard and understood, and to be free to make her own decisions.

For many men (and some women), this is very tough to do. You are showing through actions that you are someone she can be vulnerable with, take a risk (which leads to vulnerability), and that you respect her, her boundaries, ability to choose for herself, and fix her own issues rather than you stepping in to tell her (even if very subtly - & from experience, many men do this) what she should do as if she were a child and you the parent.

Listen, validate, detach. Lather, rinse, repeat. You are to the point where I know you can pull this off.

Finally, when she opens up, try to imagine things from her perspective, even if you disagree with her ultimately. She doesn't really care what you say. She cares that you are someone she can see getting her needs met and fears addressed. So, focus on process at least as much as the content of what she says. You can figure the latter out after the fact, including her.