Mutatio, I wouldn't bail on you. But I am not your W. A lot of women (and men) bail for less than the reasons you listed. I don't know what to tell you. I am a romantic at heart, and when I fall in love I don't fall out. I have also been with my H for 26 years (married for 17 of those) and I could write out a very long list of compelling reasons why I should have left him, but he is the one that decided he wants out and I am still here. I think it is just not in me to leave. My mindset is one of love and giving the benefit of the doubt and it is hard for me to hold a grudge or view him in a negative light even when I probably should. And that is probably one of the reasons why I am in this mess- because I assumed H was wired like I am. And I am assuming you are wired like me too.
You have been sober and more connected to the children since 2008. That is a long time. If she had BD'd in 2008 or 2009 I would get her point. If you were drinking and bullying the children now, I could understand her wanting out. But why wait until now? 7 years is a long time.
What does your W say she wants? When was the last time she brought up D? Or does she seem content to continue living like room mates for now?
I think the bottom line for both of us is that following the DB strategy is letting them hide behind a wall of silence and I think, at least for my H, he can hide forever. So what do we do? My H is not the kind of person who will take the lead, or any risk, and I am scared he will be content to give me the silent treatment forever. I am thinking I need a new strategy- sort of DB with a twist- but I am afraid to break from the DB strategy because maybe this is my anxiety talking. What do you think?
And I have another question for you. Was your W abused as a child? I am starting to believe there is a missing piece here for my H, and that something is making him shut down, something that has nothing to do with me and that I can't fix. Maybe your drinking and bullying 7+ years ago triggered something from her childhood? Just a thought. My IC suggested this theory to me today about H, and I know he was abused but maybe it was worse than I realized. It makes sense because he sure is not living in the present and it sounds like your W isn't either.
So don't ask me. I am sure I didn't answer your question. I wish I knew what to tell you that could help. If I was your W I would talk to you and then you'd have your answer.
Your W does not know how lucky she is that she has a man who loves her and is willing to stand by her side and examine his own behaviors and work so hard to keep her. She is a lucky woman. And I don't know why she doesn't see that. I don't know.
Ancaire, I knew what I was doing but am so desperate for dialog I looked for a surrogate. Seems pretty pathetic now.
Photoka, I am sorry to put you on the spot. I know your response signifies nothing other then how kind you are. I am so lonely. I have not given up on her but she acts as she has given up on me. Here are the answers to your questions.
If you were drinking and bullying the children now, I could understand her wanting out. But why wait until now? 7 years is a long time.
She had a EA/PA 7 years ago. That triggered my sobriety. She felt guilty and we made it work for 3 years and now it is back to the stage we were at 7 years ago. Should have gone to MC then.
What does your W say she wants?
She says she doesn't know, shes working on herself.
When was the last time she brought up D?
I brought it up 2 months ago, she brought it up 4-6 months ago.
Or does she seem content to continue living like room mates for now?
She seems very content with separate bedrooms and separate lives
So what do we do?
I will keep DB'ing and leaning on all you wonderful people. I wish I had a better answer. It seem like the only way to fix this is to leave it alone.
What do you think?
I like to play things straight up. Adding a twist to this kind of situation seems reckless to me.
Was your W abused as a child?
My wife was not abused. Her mother was domineering but not extreme. This is how my wife became an "advoider".
I am again sorry for putting you on the spot with this.
In regards to your real life situation what I do not understand is why your husband is not trying to work it out with you. The only thing I think that makes any sense to me is that he thinks he has it under control and your not going anywhere. If this is what he's doing then there is only 2 reasons it could be happening. He thinks he has the marriage understood and under control which is a dangerous game( this was my downfall ) or he is clueless. Even though you've talked with him he may not realize the depths of your unhappiness.
Mutatio, I did not feel on the spot, I just can't answer for your W because I don't understand her any better than you do. Please if it helps, ask anything. If anything I can say can put something into perspective or even help you through the day I am willing to do it. I understand your pain, heartbreak, loneliness, and am more than willing to give a shot at alleviating any of that even if just for a few minutes.
For my H, I truly believe that he is waiting for me to just fix everything.
He does now know that I won't wait forever and that he could lose me. I think for him that would be a relief because he doesn't want to look at his own issues. I believe that he wants 1- for me to fix everything, or if not that 2- for me to walk away so he doesn't have to fix anything. I think for him #3- looking at himself is not an option.
I told my IC today that I feel like H and I are on opposite sides of a bridge. I am willing to cross that bridge more than 50% of the way, even 100% of the way, if only he would turn around and face my direction. Right now he has his back to me, with an occasional turn around to lob a hand grenade in my direction. But he is still standing on his end of the bridge. So that is hopeful, he hasn't run away. Nice metaphor, huh? And the saddest part is that I take comfort in this and look how bad it is! Just turn around and face me, H. That's what I am looking for right now.
I am sorry Mutatio, I wish I had an answer for you. Or a glimmer of hope.
My H also hasn't brought up D in 7 months. But he hasn't acted like he wants to be here either.
Oh, Mutatio! I hope I didn't come across as fussing at you! I was attempting to help you. It gets really lonely as a LBS, doesn't it? I crave that interested human connection with my H all the time. I wish I realized how precious it was back then, and had taken better care to guard it!
I honestly don't know how you are able to cope. The situation you are in would cause me to go insane. You have got to be one of the most patient men on this planet. My wish for you is that your wife wakes up one day to the treasure she has right in front of her.
It wounds me that you referred to your post as pathetic. I would never say such a thing in regards to you. It was not my intention to make you feel that way. Please accept my most sincere apology for coming across in a judgemental manner?
As always, I remain one of your staunchest supporters. -Judy
Ancaire You did not make me feel that way. Only I can make myself feel anything. You are my friend and I need you to share the truth. Please don't feel the need to filter. After I posted the question to Photoka I kind of regretted it and feel embarrassed for such weakness. I miss my wife and want her to look at me say anything that is not household business related or a look and a simple smile. Please don't worry about it my friend.
Photoka, I think you and I are sharing the same moment now. I appreciate you holding my electronic hand. When you seem annoyed with your husband it reminds me of my wife 7 years ago when my marriage started to fall apart. I am screaming in my head to your husband to wake up before its to late. I too did not want to look inward, until 7 years ago when my wife had her EA/PA. That shattered my ego and I realized I was a selfish insensitive SOB.
It sounds like you have to accept husband like he is since you cant change him and he won't change himself. Maybe the stakes are not high enough for him to change. Maybe you have to rock his world a little harder to wake him up and get his attention. If he loves you he must care what is happening.
I can not fathom why spouse that is willing to destroy a marriage can not have the guts to look inward to find the problems in their lives. I have crawled into the dark recesses of my mind and pulled all the crap out into the light of day. They're fracking cowards. Sorry I'm getting angry now.
They can't face the pain inside themselves, so they project it outward. They have gotten into a dynamic in which they feel they need to protect themselves from you, and anything you do or say, no matter how positive, unleashes a whole lot of bad chemicals into their system that make that feel like they are under attack and they just want it to stop.
M this is her fight. You can't really do anything about that except take care of yourself, give her the space and time, and in the meantime work on your own issues. The more you try to do anything toward her right now, the less chance you are giving her to face up to the reality that she has to deal with her own issues.
Treat it like a business arrangement right now. You are friendly, but not friends. You are responsive, but it isn't your responsibility. You give your time attention as you can when requested, but you have other business to attend to. Some day you many get a chance to do more, but not today, and not tomorrow or the next day. Maybe not ever. And, it is OK. It really is. If it isn't OK, then that is what you have to work on in you rather than trying to fix your M. Only when you don't need her the way you believe you do, can you hope to really be able to build a healthy R with her. Fixing the M is something she will have to come to want to do. Be ready by working on not being so needy I think the just and hurting and grasping that if the chance comes, you are ready for it.
It's hard. It hurts. It's sad. It will be OK though. It really will be.
Me: 50 W:43 S6, S3 M: 12 yrs. T: 17 M is bad & Not happy Bomb Mar '14 S 5 Feb '15 D Bomb 13 Apr '15 (but "no hurry") DB Coach May '15 Wants proceed on D Aug '15 Starting 1-on-1 negotiations Sept '15
I had a good night's sleep and my brain must have been working on this while I was sleeping. I went to bed feeling like I need to insist that he get his own apartment, because he is miserable to live with and bringing me down. I woke up to the word "detachment."
I feel as if I am detaching and then after a few weeks, suddenly I realize I am not detached at all.
The more I think about what my IC said about H having been abused the more I think she could be right. That could explain why he will not look inward. The anger. The control his parents have on him. His sexual passivity. His struggles w. our daughter. My IC said it sounds like D is more emotionally aware and mature than H and she thinks he is "stuck" at age 10-12 reasoning and she would bet that something traumatized him at that time. Something he doesn't want to explore, something that surfaced in his brain when he was struggling with D's issues last year. If that is the case I can truly have more empathy and patience for him. He did tell me years ago about an incident from his childhood but kind of brushed over it. I am wondering if that is where the missing piece of the puzzle lies. I can't ask him. I hope his therapist is good, and I hope I can give him the calm home base that he needs to figure this out. If that is even it.
In the meantime, I will detach. I decided as one of my GAL activities that I will start reading again. I used to read a lot but not much any more. I am exhausted from running around, and all this wine drinking is not good for me. I am going to read 2x per week, inspirational books, I am thinking of reading biographies.
Detaching is very hard. I think I had such an easy time of it because my XH physically moved 1600 miles away. Best gift he gave me! GAL helps and I started reading again too. Like you, I used to read a lot, but then kind of moved away from it, but I'm rediscovering it and it is great.
Good luck! And hang in there. It DOES get better.
Me 52, H53 Bomb drop 9/29/2014 Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014 Marriage #2 12/31/2019 5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships) 6 grandkids
I struggled so much with detaching. I started focusing on my H through the lens of his damaged childhood. It was pretty bad. But, I became compassionate and less concerned with the outcome. It made a huge difference when I looked at him less as a man hurting me, and more as a person who'd been wounded badly as a vulnerable child.
Thank you Ancaire. I think this might be the missing piece of the puzzle. We have had some other issues over the years and I used to wonder what was wrong, but never could put my finger on it. I have been researching today and it really fits. I am wondering if he started losing it as my son reached the age where my H was abused, plus that coincided with some other major life stressors. I wish I could talk with him.
One thing that really upsets me, and this line of thinking definitely isn't going to help me, but why is it that when H was bullied and abused as a child his parents refused to believe him, (from the incidents he told me, I don't know about the bigger incident that he once mentioned) but now that H is an adult and he reached out to them when he was depressed, they viciously attacked and blamed me? Why did they never come to his defense as a child who was actually in danger but now rushing in to his defense as an adult who is NOT being abused? Where was there anger and protection when he was a child?
OMG. I just figured it out. This is why he is listening to them about me. This is why he is letting them go on and on about me. Because this is what he needed from them when he was a child.
V, are you around? I need somebody with some expertise in abuse.
