Finally asking for help: 2

[mutatio]

Solo, how's is life in the world of Solo?
I hope your faring well. When reading your posts I can relate to what your going through. It is very difficult to endure.

Yesterday I was sitting in the dentist chair.The woman cleaning my teeth was up to her elbows digging, scraping, probing and using some ultra sonic water jet torture device and all I could think was was the psychological pain my wife was causing me. I was unaware of the physical discomfort of the cleaning. I think physical pain is not as bad as what we are going through.

Sorry, for just babbling on. I hope this post finds you well and hope to hear was going on soon.

Be well

[Vanilla]

Vanilla

So to address your question of self worth. I'm not really sure about that. Like, I think on paper, by just about any means of outside measurement people deeply value me.

I have a lot of confidence in my life. I am a good friend. I do the right thing, no matter how tough and try to love people with courage. I am professionally very successful, a leader of many, and am seen as a really cool guy. The James Dean type.

Some how I sense this is how you act (as if) and isn't how you are to yourself. This is how you seek to be towards others. Outwardly rather than inwardly directed. Do you treat others better than you treat yourself? Are you a good friend to yourself? Are you a leader to yourself? Etc etc.....

Those are constructs though, and they are a deliberate framework I've put in place over my life.

I can read that, it keeps you safe. It imposes a fear to fail, that if you can meet these standards that you can have high self esteem. Let's just look at that, self worth is about who you are, even if you are not James Dean 100% of the time, perhaps fail sometimes as a friend.

Struggle and failure, that is ok. Every human treads a path, the more you do, the more risk you take, the more the struggle, the more the learning.

I think you measure yourself on what you do which is self esteem. If in your own eyes you perform well you feel great, stumble be human then you see yourself as unworthy and feel badly. Know this you are a human being, not a human doing.

I think deep down, I do have pretty low self-worth due to a having a passionate heart,

A passionate heart is a great and worthy thing to have, it makes you live life with energy. Know that your self worth should be measured on these attributes not on how you perform. Otherwise you will ride a roller coaster. I would like you to distinguish between that which you are and that which you do. A good passionate heart is worthy. Tell me about who you are, not what you do. So who are you? What attributes make you a truly great human being?

my upbringing

when we are measured as youngsters on how we perform, we value ourselves on how well we do. Unless we learn it is ok to just be a good kind loving and passionate human, then we look to always do better and better. When we invariably fall, have a poor marriage, lose a job, put on weight etc, we think we have low esteem in our eyes. Then we need to perform better and better, do more and more. It is a treadmill to ill health and self destruction.

Learn that you are worthy when you are a passionate man, thus whether you succeed or fail it's ok because you have value to yourself in who you are. It's only when you are inauthentic that your self worth is diminishes.

and a lot of years of being battered around emotionally by my W.

Our higher power chooses this dynamic, ok the battering is given by another, just as my WH abused me, but the R was my choice. It is my path to learning about myself. My failed M does not make me low in self worth.

Over the last few months in seeing my IC, she has really helped me back off of me taking myself too seriously, taking too much responsibility for the problems in my relationship.

We are responsible for how we react and for being authentic.

She's been helping me to be easier on myself, and that has helped a bit. I think that you are really on the right track there though.

I think so too, this is actually easily resolved. This is about knowledge and acceptance. One of those light bulb moments, once you know you can never unknow.

I have a lot of self hatred.

I am not sure hate is the right word. I would say judgement. You judge yourself on your success on what you do, because there are difficulties (not all of your making) you judge harshly. Instead, isn't your core of passion steady throughout?

I would recommend looking at who you are rather than what you do. You connect to your other power that alone gives deep meaning and high self worth.

I often feel ugly, unwanted.

So you have fat bald, spotty days too. But this is external, does this change your passion, your good heart, your kindness? Not in the slightest. It is just the mirror looking back when you use self esteem to judge yourself. Some days your doing is inadequate, so you are ugly unwanted. When you connect to the higher power that is never ugly, you are always wanted.

I'm not entirely sure why either.

Lets ask the hard question then. It's ok to say V back off, give me a break. When did this start? What age? Did your family, teachers, WW, value you on what you did rather than for you? Is that how you learned to value Solo?

It's obvious that people, even my W, find me attractive.

So you feel they value you for how you look? That is your mirror looking back, seeing yourself in others eyes. If they see value so do you, but actually your value is in who you are irrespective of what others reflct back at you. You become independent of that mirror, you no longer need it because it is ok just to be Solo.

To a certain extent those with high self worth look after themselves, they are attractive because they glow with health, well being and high self worth, they carry themselves well, eat well and groom. Others do the same acting as if. Both are attractive and those with high self worth, just carry it inside without question.

This can be you. It is only a question of belief, beliefs change in an instant.

I trust I have explained.


Just typing that out gave me some insight.

I am pleased, let's push that further into growth and realisation. Try googling self worth vs self esteem.


Thanks V. Seriously.

Welcome. I hope this has assisted further. My next question is how do you value yourself?

V

[Grey]

Wow.

I mean, wow.

Not only does your story and M feel instantly identifiable and relatable (if not nearly identical to my M), but we're even the same age and behave in the same ways of being naturally dependant rescuers.

I just started a new thread and I'm so thankful I found this one (your original post, more to the point), I only wish I had found it first.

I'm going to read through all of it when I get home tonight. I'm in the midst of separation and contemplating D for my own sake and it's so helpful to read someone like you talk about how that's not what we want but what we might have to ultimately accept, even when nobody else understands it (or they get false information from a STBX, for example).

Cheers, best of luck, and thank you Solo


G

[Solo15]

mutatio
Thanks for checking in on me buddy. It's been a tough couple of weeks. The depression is a big battle for me right now. But I'm coping. Cheers!


Vanilla

Thanks for taking the time to dissect everything. I think that there is a lot of wisdom there. I tend to believe that who we are is not what's inside, but what we do with it. Action is what effects the people and world around us.

When did this start? What age? Did your family, teachers, WW, value you on what you did rather than for you? Is that how you learned to value Solo?

I'm not sure if I understand. We all value people for what they do, right? I mean, having a sense of humor, being kind, passionate, those things manifest through action. People value action. They can't value you in any other way unless it's physical.

I can say this in regards to self judgement. My father is highly judgmental and it really messed me up. My W is insanely judgmental, especially of me. Not just my actions, but my thoughts, my feelings, my interests. So I would say that if the people are closest to you have judged you and restrained you for your entire life, you believe them. Their love has always had all these conditions. I don't think I have ever felt loved for who I am in the relationships that matter most to me. I also grew up in a highly religious setting, so that compounded that feeling. In some ways, I believe that my personality and the way I give love comes from not ever feeling unconditional love and wanting to give it.

Grey
I'm glad my sitch could be of some use. Thanks for the kind words. I've been reading up on yours as well, and will post in a bit.

[Vanilla]

Mutatio,
Thanks for checking in on me buddy. It's been a tough couple of weeks. The depression is a big battle for me right now. But I'm coping. Cheers!

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Vanilla,

Thanks for taking the time to dissect everything. I think that there is a lot of wisdom there.

I tend to believe that who we are is not what's inside, but what we do with it.

I completely disagree. That is the point of my post to you. If you measure yourself on what you do other than who you are then you are placing value on human doings not human beings. My whole point is that may be a completely inappropriate measure for mental health.

Action is what effects the people and world around us.

Yes of course it is, and more effective is who you are, values etc.

When did this start? What age? Did your family, teachers, WW, value you on what you did rather than for you? Is that how you learned to value Solo?

I'm not sure if I understand.

We all value people for what they do, right?

That isn't the best way, it makes all interaction conditional on performance.If someone can't do or ceases doing they cease to have value in that model of the world. I now know that is the way you value yourself. Conditionally.


I mean, having a sense of humor, being kind, passionate, those things manifest through action. People value action. They can't value you in any other way unless it's physical.

Totally disagree. I love and respect people for who they are not what they do. Good people do bad things, bad people do good things.

I can say this in regards to self judgement.

My father is highly judgmental and it really messed me up.

I thought that might be the case, I really think you picked up the habit too. You say you judge on actions that is very tough way to judge yourself. Self esteem is high if you do well, low if you don't!

No one can do anything to you without your consent. It wasn't your father's judgement that caused the damage, it was the fact you believed him!

I believe your super ego is judging you. You replaced your dad with yourself. It may very well be that you are even more judgemental of yourself than your dad was of you.

You could choose to rethink that you have value just simply because you are you. That is where your value lies, not in your doing but in your being. You cease judging yourself for what you do.

My W is insanely judgmental, especially of me. Not just my actions, but my thoughts, my feelings, my interests.

Of course, you will surround yourself with those who value you that way! That is how you value yourself. Time to stop!

When you change the things you value of yourself, others will too. They can not help but change how they react to you. The love of you will draw that love from others.

This is your comfort zone and so you are uncomfortable in your comfort zone, it's a tough way to live.

So I would say that if the people are closest to you have judged you and restrained you for your entire life, you believe them.

Once again I disagree. The truly independent individual has value in themselves, irrespective of the thoughts of others. What someone else thinks of you is their business not yours. You don't have to buy it. This DB process is about that value, it is about boundaries, it is about becoming the best you can be.

My WH said that I was ugly, unattractive, the most selfish person on the planet. It simply isn't so. I have my faults, I am human. What I think of me is much more important than anyone else's view. Of course I can consider change if their view has validity to me. Essentially those criticism attempt to diminish who I am, the boundaries say 'no, that is not who I am' . I can be who I want to be. I love V, the higher power loves V, I am worthy of that love just because I am a human being called V. I am me, it is enough.

Their love has always had all these conditions. I don't think I have ever felt loved for who I am in the relationships that matter most to me.

Well, I can see why! It's hard for others to love you, if you don't love yourself then that is a limitation. Your higher power still loves you and there is a place inside of Solo that loves Solo. That voice is singing if you can but listen to t. Take theme to listen to your song. It's time that you find the fabulous person, terrific dad, loving intelligent man, who is a great human being, truly loveable. No one can love you more than you love yourself. We can explore why you may be afraid of self love if you like. Usually there is some fear somewhere being held on to in the subconscious. Heck if V can love you then that spirit speaks.

You can be loved for who you are.

I also grew up in a highly religious setting, so that compounded that feeling.

That is disappointing, the one being who loves you for being made in his grace, was unable to reach you. Let the higher power reach you now. Feel the love that comes your way.


In some ways, I believe that my personality and the way I give love comes from not ever feeling unconditional love and wanting to give it.

I would really want for you that this can change. That you know and feel the unconditional love from your higher power, for yourself and particularly for you children. My deepest wish and I am projecting my best rainbow strength is that you look into your own eyes, just be, and open your heart to the love around you. It's everywhere and you need do nothing to have this fulfilment. It come with stillness, with observation, with inactivity, with spirit, it comes with just simply being who you are. Flaws and perfection both.

You are loved just because you are Solo.

You can have that love close, right now, if you open your heart and be still.

Grey
I'm glad my sitch could be of some use. Thanks for the kind words. I've been reading up on yours as well, and will post in a bit.

I am guessing that Grey sees this too!

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We can chat further on this if you like and it is of help to you.

V

[Solo15]

Vanilla

Thanks for taking the time to post. Let me be careful in fleshing this out. I actually believe in God. I know he loves me. In fact, I feel as though my greatest traits are directly gifted to me by him. They are the things that exist outside of my choices or actions. The good stuff. That I have such a capacity to love, to give, to forgive, to make peace, and to have the courage to love so deeply. I see beauty in everyone. These things have a lot of worth.

I've been reflecting on your words for the last few days and I do feel as though they ring true for me. I guess it's kind of hard because my W stopped loving me despite who I am. It wasn't enough. Now my life is a nightmare and constant struggle to feel anything but heartache. I can't help but feel like it's my own fault. But rationally I know the truth.

Thanks V!

[Solo15]

Just some adding to the journal.

So things are pretty terrible. At least internally. I am plagued with this duality. I live in two minds. On one side, there is this little boy turned grown man. He wants what once was. He loves someone more deeply than anyone has ever loved. He waits. He hopes. He imagines a new life, where all the good will, all the hope that's in all these posts from all these good people comes true. He believes that God will come through. That this is the fire that burns away everything and restores truth. That this is a story that has a happy ending, one true to all I have longed for. All I have worked to have. A renewed life, full, happy, and paired with the woman that I have given my heart and life to. My Eve.

Then there is reality. Cold and hard and broken. It's betrayal, reformatted memories, extreme loss, and dislocated dreams. It's the constant reel of nightmares. It's his hands on her body. Her breath in his ear. It's the cold forgotten November sky. It's death. Death of a great dream, a great hope. A love that spans decades, that's formed who I am, what I want. I've memorized every curve of her body, every flaw, every lovely gleam in her big lovely eyes. Eyes that have peered into my soul, shared tears, stars of excitement at the beauty of our baby's future. The knowing glances, the steam and fury of passion, the darkness of loss.

Loss. That's my life now. In my wisdom I find excitement in a new future. One that is free of abuse, of torment, one that glows with possibility. But this new future is empty without her. Empty. Hollow. If I could but change, if I could disconnect from everything I have ever wanted. If I could let go of the stone and reach out my hand to a new thing. A new life.

I had a friend who hunted raccoon on his farm. He said that they would put shiny things in holes in tree stumps. In holes too small to allow the object to come out, but narrow enough to allow the paw to enter. He said that they would find the raccoons still clutching the shiny thing, unwilling to leave it, even though they new they would die if they didn't abandon it. They would hold on no matter what. They needed it. They had to hold on to the hope they would get it out. They were shot dead.

I am a new man. Full of new thoughts. New insight. New hopes. But here I am, drawn to her. Dying for her. Mourning for my whole life, my youth, my sweetest friend. She who betrayed me, most deeply, most intently. Drop her and move on! They say. I say. 3 little girls, each a gift, each unique and all rocked and walked in long sleepless nights, through sickness, diapers, training. First steps, first everything. All the little ties that bind a family together. All the memories. And my W betrayed me. Fully. She betrayed us all. How do you move through this?! How? PMA? IC? DB? Yeah. Done it all. Nothing seems to make it better.

And my W is constantly trying to spend time with me. Uses me. I let her. Because I am double minded. A house divided cannot stand. So I'm falling down. I should not fall down. I can't.

That was one awkward post, but I needed to get that out.

Luv you all.

[mutatio]

Solo, your not alone, we stand with you. I feel the same despair. My wife has not decided if she will divorce me but I don't have a good feeling about it. So like you I live in the twilight zone.

Don't give up Solo. I will keep fighting the good fight and you should too. You never know, maybe they'll wake up, see we've changed and give us a shot. That's how I'm playing this lousy hand.

Be well Solo, Be strong.

[Vanilla]

I will post back to you. Sadly my iPad has died and I have ordered an new one.

The answer is within you, when you decide that Mutatio is enough with or without WW, as a man, father and human being. That which WW or anyone thinks of you wont matter.

Discovering that strength will ensure that only your view as seen through your higher power is important.

V

[Vanilla]

Solo, I will reply to you too. I am having trouble with quoting on my iPad from thread to thread. It logs me out.

Your post above is so important and I am thinking very hard about you.

V