WW Conversation

[thriver]

She has told me on many occasions, she wants to be friends and she has remorse. She says she is showing "her kind of remorse", whatever that means?!?! How should I handle this conversation when I don't believe her.

Any vets out there have advice on what true remorse looks like, or experience with remorse and their WW's?

Anyone have any thoughts or advice on this?

[Fogg]

She may think she is being remorseful over whats happened. She could feel bad about the pain shes caused you and not be prepared to fix it or start a new R.

I understand with the pain you have been through you want it to be acknowledged by her, you want to see her really remorseful. I want to see the same, but it may not happen, especially if she still wants a D.

You cant make her feel a certain way so not sure you can do anything.

[sandi2]

Hey Thriver, good to see you posting again. The definition of remorse is an emotional expression of personal regret felt by a person after they have committed an act which they deem to be shameful, hurtful, or violent. That's the book's definition.

The type or amount of emotional expression probably depends upon the individual. When it comes to serious relationships, such as marriage, it would seem if a wayward was truly sorry for their wayward actions, then the BS would see some kind of evidence. As to how much that wayward spouse would do, depends on where they are in life. For instance, some are in another M and get dumped before they start feeling remorse for how they treated their first H.

How does a person truly regret their deed and then continue doing it? Isn't that what addicts and abusers do? How does a person have remorse and their attitude never change? Remorse goes deeper than just having a hard cry, and then repeating the same behavior, but that may be JMHO. As long as the WW says she regrets the A, but you never see any evidence of her wanting to make things right with you, I would say it's just words without the emotional expression of wanting the marriage reconciled.

In most of the stories that come through here, the WW says she want to be friends with the BH. But what she sees as a friendship with him is not what he sees. As long as she has a wayward heart, her motives will be selfish. He needs to examine the "friendship" from the view as if she were M to another man. Would he be her friend, then? And, don't confuse friendliness with being a BFF. IMHO, the only time to become a friend to a spouse who betrayed you, is when they repent (and turn away from that behavior) and both are working to reconcile the M. That is the time to start out as friends, then slowly go to dating. During this dating period, have professional MC to help get you back on the right track.....and keep you there.

From my reading, a truly remorseful WW will put their LBS and their feelings first, without question. They will take actions to show the LBS that they are truly sorry. They will move heaven and earth to heal the pain that they caused. They will setup MC sessions and go NC with the OM. They will do whatever it takes.

I think a word missing here might be "willingness". If a WW wants to reunite with the H she betrayed, then she should be willing to do whatever it takes to heal the MR. There may be some cases where the WW is so distraught, or perhaps has sank so low, that she feels it is hopeless to think her H would even give her a second chance. (I'm not seeing it in your WW).

IMO, the H needs to lay out a transparency plan, boundaries, some type of professional guidance, etc. He is the one who is (or should be) in the position to call the shots. She needs to understand that she is the one who has to earn his trust........and not the other way around. She is the one with the burden of proof on her shoulders. If she resents any of it, then she needs IC (who is pro-marriage). You can't heal a M that holds resentment and unforgiveness.

The attitude always gives away the true intent of a WW. It may take a little time, but eventually her colors show in her attitude. There have been a lot of men who were so eager to get the WW back home, that no consequences, stipulations, or work was required for her. I don't recall one case where it succeeded. The time to make the plans of agreement to R the M is if/when she actually wants to return. And don't accept that old bait of her saying, "I've been thinking about maybe going back home", or her asking something like, "What would you do if I packed my bags and came home"? Nope, it's not that simple, honey.

The number of WW's that wanted to return without doing any work, is in the majority. They want to pick up where it left off, and to act as if nothing ever happened. It doesn't work. Something DID happen. A lot happened! If she goes home under those conditions......it will only be a matter of time before she hurts him again. Why? B/c she won't really respect him for taking her back so easily. She would be more attracted to a man who caused her to have to work to be with him.

[thriver]

I understand with the pain you have been through you want it to be acknowledged by her, you want to see her really remorseful. I want to see the same, but it may not happen, especially if she still wants a D.

Thanks for your feedback Fogg. You are absolutely right. After all we have been through, I don't understand how a human being could be so heartless and cold. I agree that there is nothing I can do to move her along in her remorse process, if she ever gets there.

[beckyb]

Cold may not be all bad. My H regularly apologizes for hurting me but still wants a divorce. It's horrible.

[thriver]

Cold may not be all bad. My H regularly apologizes for hurting me but still wants a divorce. It's horrible.

Becky, I just caught up on your sitch. I'm so sorry your H is treating you this way. Stay strong and try not to mind read too much. My W is dragging out the D too even though she was the one that filed. I've questioned her actions over and over again, but soon discovered it's not productive, because I cannot change them.

[thriver]

As long as the WW says she regrets the A, but you never see any evidence of her wanting to make things right with you, I would say it's just words without the emotional expression of wanting the marriage reconciled.

Exactly right Sandi. She has said she was sorry, but as far as making things right with me, not even close IMO. She shows no interest in reconciling or even contacting me, despite my going dark. She doesn't even respond to my emails about strictly financial items.

As long as she has a wayward heart, her motives will be selfish. He needs to examine the "friendship" from the view as if she were M to another man. Would he be her friend, then? And, don't confuse friendliness with being a BFF. IMHO, the only time to become a friend to a spouse who betrayed you, is when they repent (and turn away from that behavior) and both are working to reconcile the M.

I don't even know if WW is currently seeing the original OM or if she's moved onto another one or if she's not even looking for one right now. You do bring up a good point though, that as long as she is "wayward at heart", it will all be about her selfish needs and desires. No, I will not be her friend, and I told her the same several months ago. She fired me as her H and she does not get to demote me to BFF. She seems ok with it.

I think a word missing here might be "willingness". If a WW wants to reunite with the H she betrayed, then she should be willing to do whatever it takes to heal the MR. There may be some cases where the WW is so distraught, or perhaps has sank so low, that she feels it is hopeless to think her H would even give her a second chance. (I'm not seeing it in your WW).

If this was the case, is there any way I should communicate to her that it's not too late and I would give her a chance if she repents and turns away from her destructive behavior?

IMO, the H needs to lay out a transparency plan, boundaries, some type of professional guidance, etc. He is the one who is (or should be) in the position to call the shots. She needs to understand that she is the one who has to earn his trust........and not the other way around.

How do I do this?

And don't accept that old bait of her saying, "I've been thinking about maybe going back home", or her asking something like, "What would you do if I packed my bags and came home"? Nope, it's not that simple, honey.

Not a chance. I'm committed to not letting this happen. I've worked too hard on myself in the last year to let her come back without putting in the work on herself. If she ever did say something like that, what would be the best response?

For my sitch, it's the 11th hour. Unless a miracle happens, we will be D'd next month. The court date is set. I guess I have to accept it at this point. But that doesn't mean I'm giving up the fight. I'll continue to GAL, I'll continue to move on from this painful experience, I'll continue to enforce my boundaries.

I would appreciate some feedback on my questions. Goodnight friends.

[beckyb]

Thanks. It looks like your sitch has been going on a long time. I can't imagine hanging in there that long. 99.9% of me hopes H excepts my settlement proposal and we can just get this over with. We'll see what happens.

[thriver]

Sandi and others...putting these questions back out there hoping someone can offer advice or guidance. Thanks in advance.

I think a word missing here might be "willingness". If a WW wants to reunite with the H she betrayed, then she should be willing to do whatever it takes to heal the MR. There may be some cases where the WW is so distraught, or perhaps has sank so low, that she feels it is hopeless to think her H would even give her a second chance. (I'm not seeing it in your WW).

If this was the case, is there any way I should communicate to her that it's not too late and I would give her a chance if she repents and turns away from her destructive behavior?

IMO, the H needs to lay out a transparency plan, boundaries, some type of professional guidance, etc. He is the one who is (or should be) in the position to call the shots. She needs to understand that she is the one who has to earn his trust........and not the other way around.

How do I do this?

And don't accept that old bait of her saying, "I've been thinking about maybe going back home", or her asking something like, "What would you do if I packed my bags and came home"? Nope, it's not that simple, honey.

Not a chance. I'm committed to not letting this happen. I've worked too hard on myself in the last year to let her come back without putting in the work on herself. If she ever did say something like that, what would be the best response?

For my sitch, it's the 11th hour. Unless a miracle happens, we will be D'd next month. The court date is set. I guess I have to accept it at this point. But that doesn't mean I'm giving up the fight. I'll continue to GAL (despite my fear that I'll end up being alone), I'll continue to move on from this painful experience, I'll continue to enforce my boundaries.

I would appreciate some feedback on my questions. Goodnight friends.

[thriver]

Anyone out there?