We are on the brink

[WhyUs]

SJ,

Ok. Your husband definitely has compulsive issues if you ask me. I have been your husband. Listening to you talk about it is enlightening to me. I can pretty much guarantee your husband thinks you are trying to be disrespectful or just do not care enough about him. However, I am not sure the way to handle it is meeting his every demand. (Maybe it is to get him back to the table, I'm not sure.)

I am not sure what would have made the light bulb go off for me. I was talking to the psychologist after BD before I realized I had compulsive tendencies. Only now, after reading your sitch am I beginning to understand the real impact of my behavior. I am learning as I am typing.

I wonder if there are books out there addressing this issue. I would imagine it is a fairly common issue in marriages that an LMFT would have suggestions for--don't think your husband is up for that though.

I am going to try doing some more thinking about it. I sure wish I could talk to my WW and let her know I am figuring things out.

[SpinningJenny]

Yeah - I feel like I have a choice, sometimes, between obeying his every whim, being a good little girl, and getting a pat on the head, or by being an adult, and being presented with the silent treatment.

Now of course - lots of the things he asks for are totally reasonable, and I need to do better in remembering them.

But some of them are just preferences - how he likes the tea-towels hung - and to me it seems to feed into a really bad dynamic to obey these kind of preferences as if they were 'rules' just so I can get some measly drops of attention from him.

I don't doubt he feels if only I properly loved him I'd never ever forget to put the chain on the front door ever again. But I don't think he knows that when he treats me like I child, I can't feel comfy in acting like a wife to him.

[WhyUs]

Jenny,

I am literally laughing. Eureka!

Two things my WW said at the end, after the A started of course.
1) I feel like I am always walking on eggshells
2) I feel like you are my dad and I am your daughter and have to follow your rules.

It is just crazy to hear a woman's perspective that is going through what my WW was apparently going through. Of course, this was not the only issue in our marriage, but is was one that I am sure led to where we are today.

I really hope I can offer help that will fix this. One day he is going to realize what he did to contribute to the breakdown of his marriage and be very sad. I would imagine the first step will be him recognizing he has a problem. The approach to make this happen is going to be very delicate I would imagine.

You are doing great! Thank you for not giving up!

[SpinningJenny]

I really hope I can offer help that will fix this. One day he is going to realize what he did to contribute to the breakdown of his marriage and be very sad. I would imagine the first step will be him recognizing he has a problem. The approach to make this happen is going to be very delicate I would imagine.

You are doing great! Thank you for not giving up!

Thank you!

Do you have any specific ideas? I guess I need some respectful, warm, friendly phrases that will call him on his BS...

He's going to withdraw and give me the silent treatment, or he isn't - that is totally up to him, so avoiding that isn't my aim.

My aim is to even out the power balance in our relationship by stepping up and acting like an adult.

The next time he moans and wants to have a discussion (i.e he scolds me) for hanging the tea-towels a different way from the one he likes:

'Adults don't tell other adults how to hang towels.'

'I can see we have different preferences on this.'

Would these be okay things to say? I am totally stumped. It seems like such a minor thing to think about - given the state of our marriage - but to be honest, some days the only time he speaks to me is to complain about the way I've done or not done some domestic chore. The rules changes a lot, and he's unilateral about them, so it's really really impossible to avoid triggering this kind of behaviour just by behaving myself.

[WhyUs]

Do not say "Adults don't tell other adults how to hang towels." That may come off as being rude.

The second approach is much better. "I can see we have different preferences on this."

Are there ever times when you feel like you can talk to him. Are there times when he just seems happy, relaxed, and willing to be open with you. Maybe this would be a time to bring up the OCD stuff. I would not harp on it though. You don't want to switch his good mood when you rarely see it.

Honestly, I think a professional would be more suited to address this issue. I think it is out of my league. Have you thought about going to an IC on your own to discuss this issue.

I think I can give you my perspective on how I felt about things but figuring out how to fix him may be tough. I would hate to trouble shoot your marriage when a professional may know what to do right away.

[SpinningJenny]

Hi WhyUs

at the moment - no, there aren't times I feel I can talk to him. We have brief, polite conversations about the kids or practical things - or he criticises something I've done or not done. That is about it.

BUT I think this is an issue for further on down the road - and if he does have compulsive problems, they are his to deal with (and I will support him if I can). Generally, I know he doesn't think he has 'preferences' - that some things aren't really a matter of right or wrong, but just individual likes and dislikes. He's said before it isn't a matter of perspective, it is a case of him being right and me being wrong. Down that road madness lies. He can think he's right if he wants to, and sulk about it if I disagree - that is okay with me for the time being.

I think the thing for now, is to work on the goals I set out.

I think he's noticing something's up. A couple of times today he's asked me if there is a problem, or if I am displeased with something. I am CERTAIN that my attitude is okay - I've been warm and friendly and appreciative. But I'm also making sure I don't pursue him at all. I believe he's more used to me making bids for his attention and I am just not doing that. He can come to me if he wants to, and if he doesn't, well, I can see how I feel and make that decision later.

[Avanti]

It could be that as you are changing he perceives that he's losing control over you so is stepping up the stroppy behaviour in an attempt to get you back in line.

Working on your goals may well stir him up further so be prepared but continue with them anyway, they are the way forward for you.

Asking him not to speak to you in that way when it happens (using a calm and controlled tone, softly spoken), and repeat again if required, stating that you'll not continue the conversation if he persists, then walking away if he does continue unabated seems fair and reasonable to me. It's simple cause and effect psychology nothing complex or something new as you're bound to have used it on your children at some point.

He may have some OCD like tendencies and there are many ways in which he can communicate these to you, his chosen method is seemingly now a habit and gentle but firm guidance from you along with your own self control will win in the long run.

[SpinningJenny]

Thanks, Beagley.

I've been reflecting on this a lot today. I don't think I've enforced my boundary about being spoken to respectfully consistently with him, now I come to think about it. I know I have been really really driven to get him to behave affectionately towards me and to spend time with me by doing all these little things, then getting resentful because the approach doesn't work in the way I want it to. Who knew you couldn't buy affection with washing up and making the bed That resentment has led to me getting pissy with him because of it. I think I am dropping the rope. Is that what you all call it?

I think I need to detach myself from this need I have to have his affection and attention. I don't know whether that is positive or not - whether that is the kind of loving detachment you're all talking about. But getting it from him can't be the motivation for my decisions. I have to be prepared to work on my goals even if it makes him sulk - and to enforce my boundaries even if it means I get the silent treatment. He'll do what he wants to do anyway.

I have to think about time limits too. I know this won't be fixed in a month - I know it won't. I know once he starts communicating with me, we're only at the very very start and as soon as he starts telling me what his needs are, I will have a whole lot more work to do. But none of my needs are being met at the moment and haven't been for a long time. My respect and affection for him is dying. I'm not willing to be unhappy for years on end.

We're calling the estate agent on monday. Who knows how long it will take our house to sell? I know right now I am not willing to sign up for another, bigger mortgage with him, nor am I willing to support him financially through another training course - not until I know he's committed to making this relationship work, and not just having his cake and eating it. I feel quite sure about that. But these aren't decisions I need to take today - like I said, it could be months before we come to it.

So I guess my next step is to think more clearly about what I want from him. And how long I am prepared to wait.

[Azzork]

A lot of good stuff here SJ. I'm so glad you've continued posting.

As for time limits, think of it this way:

can you make it through TODAY?
Once the answer to that is 'no', it's time to go.

[SpinningJenny]

I don't really have many problems making it through day to day. I get upset sometimes - and really angry sometimes - but most of the time when I'm at home I'm just low level sad and disappointed and resentful. I love my kids, my work, my hobbies - but home is like some dead, too-quiet place where some man who doesn't want to talk to me or touch me lives.

It isn't the day to day - it's the fear that I could turn around and realise I've wasted my best years living with and financially supporting a man who practically ignores me. I'm not willing to let that happen.