Still Struggling with a plan!

[hopeOK]

It's hard HopeOK. How about this....what things would you expect of him if you were in a trusting relationship? Make a list. Say 7 things that you would expect.

Then see which he is doing and which he is not.

Then consider how to approach the gaps.

Ok... my list:

He would be affectionate.
He is doing this.
He would make time for us to have quality time together.
He is doing this. I would like a little bit more but figuring out the babysitting & affording that is tricky. But we are making lots of progress in this area.
He would tell me he loves me.
He is doing this.
He would spend less time on his electronics.
He is doing this.
He would find ways to reassure me & to make me feel secure/safe.
He is sometimes doing this. Usually only if he notices I am a little bit distant. And he is not verbally reassuring me.
He would talk with me about his thoughts and feelings regularly, we would have intimate conversations, & he would check in with me to see how I think things are going or to make sure my needs are getting met.
He is not doing this. We don't have any relationship talks, really. I brought up him reading His Needs, Her Needs on vacation & why I thought it was meaningful for me (He agreed to take a look at it so he could tell me what he thought. He has read 1/2 & has not initiated any conversation about it.) but that was the last & only conversation that had any depth at all.
He would not have relationships w/ other women and have clear boundaries that he would communicate to me.
Not sure if he has a friendship w/ OW. He is not communicating anything to me on this & I have not asked.

Ok.... now... how to approach the gaps! A conversation?

[hopeOK]

Had my IC yesterday and we spent the whole time discussing ways to communicate w/ H. I have difficulty with getting my thoughts across & seem to say things the wrong way a lot of the time so the practice was good. My therapist thought it was a good idea to talk to H about my desire to talk about the R... instead of it being a topic that is avoided. She also helped me figure out a way to ask about if there is any friendship going on w/ the OW.

Last night I did tell him that I was having a tough time on Monday w/ not feeling secure and sometimes I just need to be reassured. I also said it would be nice if we could discuss the relationship from time to time and he was open to that. He did think that things are going well and he said he is trying to be a good husband. I asked him if I was meeting all his needs and he said yes. He asked if he was meeting mine and I said a lot of them. He asked for more on that and I told him what he was doing a really good job on (affection, quality time). I didn't tell him what was not being met (safety/security, intimate conversation)... I did not want to push everything out in one conversation. I also did not ask about OW... that will have to wait for another time. I am nervous about that one and not quite ready.

I still have so many doubts. I want to move on and quit focusing so much on them... but gosh, the struggle is real! I have this little voice in my head that is saying I deserve more... I should have someone who is head over heals for me and wants to bend over backwards to do all that they can to make the relationship a good one. I get mad that h doesn't seem to appreciate having me. I am attractive and fit (he gets told by his male friends/ family that I am hot -literally I have read of 2 comments of this nature on his fb in the last 2 months & had someone say it to him in front of me a couple months ago, I take care of the home (making sure it is mostly always clean/tidy) and his children really pretty well. I homeschool so I am also in charge of educating the children (& I go to school part time myself working on getting another degree). I cook meals every night. I am making a lot of effort in the areas I have not been good at (complimenting him, being thoughtful, etc) Things are exciting in bed (now). (sorry tmi) Then I remind myself that there was a time when I was in a place where I didn't appreciate him, I didn't put in much effort, I did my own thing. So I vacillate between some sort of entitlement and a feeling of this being my just punishment & I have to do the time.

When things get really low, I either think he is absolutely cheating & I must play detective & expose him (I have no evidence or even really suspicion... just fear) or I think that maybe I need to move on, end the relationship & start over with someone else fresh so I don't have to have all these daily doubts and fears & I could have someone who really appreciates me (doesn't have the resentments as well & I can make sure to do the right things to protect the relationship now that I know). Now these are my extremes & do not happen often... but they are there. I do not act on them but they are there.

Clearly I need to find ways to stay busier... I have way too much idle time on my hands while I am at home all day w/ the kids and I focus way too much on the relationship. I do have school I could be doing but my obsessing over the R always comes first. Ugh. When did I become so pathetic.

[hopeOK]

Had a rough day yesterday with just a lot of stuff going on. Then H went out to the range w/ a co-worker (I saw the messages about the outing so I am confident he was there w/ this male co-worker) & was home late. Then while he was at the range, I saw that he'd been on fb. Now logically, this could be just him wasting a bored spare minute looking on fb. I do this. Lots of ppl do this. But in my insecure and paranoid mind I thought- OW is messaging w/ him on fb messenger. So this made my bad day extend into a grumpy evening. H noticed & commented but I just said I was tired.

Later that night in bed, I just decided to ask my burning question. The night wasn't going to get any worse... I didn't think anyway. So I asked him if he was still talking w/ the OW outside of professional work stuff. He responded with an adamant no. He then asked how long I had been wanting to ask that & he seemed really surprised that I had been keeping this for so long. Then I asked him how he ended it & he said he told her that they couldn't talk anymore. I wanted to press for more details but fought against it thinking that this was just out of curiosity rather than a need to know. He asked me if I had been grumpy b/c I thought he wasn't really at the range. I said no, I was pretty certain that he was at the range.

He then put his arm around me and did a good job at comforting me. I feel really pretty good about this whole end to the evening. He could have been lying... very possible. But I'm going to choose to believe him until he indicates otherwise. I really need to stop worrying about it so much.

[hopeOK]

On a positive note, we have a date tonight. The first ever where we are using a non-family member to babysit our kids. Since we are not near family anymore & only visit family once a month, if we want to make time for us we had to take the plunge. I think this will be good for us... I just wish we could afford to have weekly dates! Babysitters are expensive!!

[hopeOK]

Help. So we are working on our marriage... he is making a good overall effort. I am making an effort until I sabotage things w/ my insecurities. How do you stop the negative interpretations of actions, the insecurities related to the relationship, and the strong urge to pursue?

He gets out of bed w/o giving me a hug & a kiss & I turn it into (in my head) him possibly starting another affair or him tiring of trying & tiring of me. I can come back and say to myself in a more logical thought process- he has a migraine & didn't sleep well... so that is the reason. (But then I find out he didn't sleep well b/c he was worrying about something.. he says it is work stuff but then I question that... is he worrying about the OW or is he worrying about how he isn't feeling anything for me?) So I am paying acute attention to every minor shift in behavior and attitude and trying to interpret that (insecure side has its reasons/meanings it attaches to it & then logical brain side has to talk the insecure side down). This is madness & not enjoyable for me but I cannot quite figure out how to stop it. This morning I just said, "What about my hug/kiss? Did you forget about me?" I'm sure this is definitely not helpful for creating loving feelings from him but if I don't say anything then I feel bad as well... thinking he is definitely not feeling it for me.

So then I think I need to run in the opposite direction. Do my own thing & back off of him. But that is what I did that got us into this mess. I pursued my own happiness outside of the relationship & our marriage suffered. So where is the happy medium?

[Painter]

I struggle with similar stuff. I find GAL is the best way to take my mind off how H behaves towards me. I also find that me worrying and thinking about it actively pushes H away, because he can read my face. I do think it's a curse of the female brain.

Can you make yourself a routine that fills those empty spots where you wait for H to do something? Get out of bed first - meditate - journal - go for a brisk walk or work out - somehow take control so you don't have time to wait for his hug. Give him a quick hug instead! :-)

That was good advice, I should listen to that myself!

[25yearsmlc]

Look, you know what stinks even more if you mix it? Yeah you do, so don't!!!

The OW is his problem and do not go on making it your own. If he's hellbent on contacting her, he WILL FIND a way, frankly speaking, he might be romancing her in the copy room as we speak, and you cannot do anything.

So for PEte's sake, give it a rest. Slap a boundary on his behaviour if it affects you, otherwise do not.

So take your eyes off him and go on with your life, let him decide if he want's to join you...

Great advice from VAPO


IF you want to try THIS SITE"s approach then start following it. Call a DB coach and stop mixing approaches to working on your marriage. Of the many things I did to help our m, getting a coach was the single best thing I did, and NOT veering off course with other methods that can undermine this site's.

THIS SITE and its founder do NOT support exposure and there are a ton of reasons for that (which are in the book). There are a few people around here who disagree with MWD and they support exposure.

They were asked not to post OPPOSING suggestions here and on occasion, some have been banned, but returned with new screen names.

Don't get me wrong, I would encourage you questioning things --HERE, and often. Challenge things if you want but listen too.

RE the FB thing, seems to me you are banging your head against the wall. If I recall correctly, the FB issue was all old information that you invited back into your world and then felt hurt all over again. Wondering why he has not named you as his wife is just really striking me as too controlling.


He's married. He has announced it so the FB world knows. Are you concerned that OW believes he's actually secretly married to her, and not you? Is she insane?


The words "From this day forward" are in many wedding vows. Start living by those. I think they're brilliant.

And Lose the scorecard. Don't go picking it up again the next day! Believe me, I did that and scorecards and measuring things always always harms the marriage.

Plus it's as if we don't realize our spouses have their own scorecards and on theirs, we are NOT "Winning"! (We don't measure the same, don't note the same things don't read into what WE say or do, etc)

You are being your own worst enemy. Get out of HIS head and start LIVING a GOOD LIFE

which is for you AND so happens to be attractive too.

Can you see someone about the anxiety too? It can be very hard to think straight when you are not sleeping well or eating right. Anxiety can really set us back.

Sometimes Your wording here makes me feel as if you are acting like a Stepford wife barely in control of a forced smile (sorry if that stings).

That is NOT a fun way to live. To me, your h sounds as if he is doing his absolute best.

He fixed something for you son and said "Wish mommy could see that I can fix things" and you said nothing??

I think he was begging for some words of affirmation there.

Did you read the Five Love Languages? I recommend it to all couples. But look at it from his angle too.

I mean, I can see that you are reading INTO HIS behaviors and studying what you think of HIS feelings/thoughts/behaviors and choices and what they mean (which he may not even know AND which can change and which are NOT where your focus ought to be now anyhow)

it's like living your life in REACTION TO HIS... which isn't freedom of happiness.

What are you doing to CHANGE YOUR own behaviors?

Merely "not being so angry" isn't exactly a ground breaking improvement, is it? Name some more specific goals you have control over, i.e. your own choices.

Become a woman only a fool would leave.

BE THE BETTER CHOICE.

Then Do Not let the OW live, rent free in your head/heart anymore

She's beneath your attention.

Make sense?

My coach told me to do the following and if need be, try to do them FOR ONE WEEK and then see if you can renew...

1) Applaud loudly for the 1% of positives he does (and NOT countering with what was left out or done "wrong")

2) Let go of the anger (at least in front of him). If you need to take a long walk (or what I referred to as "fury marches") when you start to obsess, do it. You'll get in shape and that will counter some of your negative emotions. The "I'm hormonal" reason has to be addressed or it acts as a way to justify being unreasonable or even nasty for chunks of time (for the next 2-3 decades of your life AND your h's??)

3) work on FORGIVENESS or you won't make it through this. That may mean daily or even hourly choices, and for me it was a learned skill.

Did you see forgiveness modeled in your childhood? Your parents marriage? What did it look like?

I never saw it. Had to learn it.

The times I felt that it was most hopeless in my marriage, looking back, was when I could not imagine or visualize what forgiveness would look like.

The good news is That begins with US. We can change ourselves so we are NOT powerless. You are not powerless.

Work on forgiveness and here is what I have learned about it...

Holding onto anger to punish someone else (b/c they "don't deserve to be free")

is like lighting yourself on fire, to get smoke in their eyes.

Part of forgiveness means

you don't get to hold this over his head like the sword of Damocles

you don't allow his past "wrongs" to affect how you behave towards him today

(esp while never admitting that you are still punishing him.)

you do Not get to throw it in his face every time you guys fight

which you will do b/c life presents conflicts and throws curve balls all the time.

Maybe HIS fear and insecurity is that you will not ever let go of this...

(how can HE visualize a happy future with you if he believes you'll never let go of it?)

So what are you showing him when you hunt for wrongs done in the past and allow that to be reflected in YOUR present behaviors?

I wasted a year of my life which I'll never get back, by NOT really DBing well.

I also was not fully present for my own children b/c I was too preoccupied with what my h was doing/thinking/feeling/planning... (as if he always knew)

If you really want to give this book and site a real chance, you can't mix it up with contradictory approaches bc it's unfair to all of them. This DB approach worked for me like no other and it improved my life so that regardless of what happened in the marriage, I knew I was going to be more than ok.

Thank God for my DB coach, a real blessing. I highly recommend them.

Also is this now your only thread? I have a very hard time following more than one thread per person.

Anyhow, know this, too. Progress and healing are NOT linear. You will have setbacks. Get back up and keep going.

Good luck

[hopeOK]

I don't know about jumping out of bed before him when it is 4:20am ... but I have applied this approach when he gets on his phone, just getting up & going somewhere else. I think it does help to focus on what I can do instead of what he is not doing.

Thank you, 25yearsmlc, for your candid advice. I do appreciate it. I was just reading the other day a blog (https://affairadvice.wordpress.com) written by a guy where he talked a lot about the things you mentioned- forgiveness (being for me, not for him), not continuing to bring it up, etc. So I definitely have been thinking about all of this.

I will say that I generally am happy & in a good mood when he is around. It is when he is off at work that I struggle the most. And a couple of those struggles have resulted in me saying something to H in a non-helpful way which puts him on the defensive. (i.e.- we're never going to watch movies together, I guess & it would be nice if you asked for me when you called & the kids answered.)

So really, I think I do need to stop looking at all he does so critically & focus on what I can do. And I have been thinking a lot about forgiveness... how to go about that. What that looks like. I don't think my parents were a good example of it... they just gave each other the silent treatment when mad & then eventually they stopped being mad about whatever it was.

The other night, we went on a walk while the kids rode their bike. It was a good opportunity for us to talk while doing something which we don't get often b/c the kids are mostly around. But they were ahead riding & he brought up the time right after I found out he had been cheating where I had said- "If only your daughter knew what a F*&$ing a$$h@le you are." I said, "yeah, I was very angry and I felt very betrayed." I let it drop for awhile and we carried on. Then a bit later I said that I was sorry, I didn't mean it but was just trying to hurt him. (It seems like I am the one always apologizing in our relationship these days... but I figure, if it helps him get over that resentment & hurt, then I should do it. And maybe I did apologize for this already & he just wasn't in a place to take it in. At the very least, this might be the universe making me learn the lesson of apologizing as it is something I never experienced growing up & hadn't come easily for me in the past.)

Later as we were walking I asked him what he thought about how things were going. He said he thought things were going really well. I asked him if he ever worried that we were not doing enough to really change what got us in this mess or if he ever worried that we would go back to our old ways. He said no. He said he didn't worry about that b/c of all the big changes we have made- talking more, spending more time together, etc. He asked me what I thought & I said that I don't really know what to think b/c he doesn't share much with me about what is going on in his head. He tried to say that not much was going on there but I know better. And really I tend to think that I am doing a lot of the changes... going to bed when he does, having sex often, dropping all the things I did to get away from him & have fun elsewhere, giving compliments, playing video games w/ him, etc. And yes, I suppose all of this is keeping a scorecard.

So while no monumental thing was discussed, we did have a nice relaxed conversation about us & I did find out he thought we were doing really good. (Where I tend to think we are not doing enough.)

I have not been so focused on whether he is cheating or not... I haven't looked at his phone, email, etc for at least a week. I don't feel compelled to do it. So I think at least this is better. I am laying off the fb stuff. I haven't stalked OW on her fb page in a good while either.

I actually don't bring up the affair anymore... I am just more critical of what he is doing now in regards to me (does he want to talk to me, spend time with me, etc). But I think I tend to have an all or nothing thought process going on. If he doesn't do all of xyz right now, then we are doomed. I know this is faulty thinking but I am a fixer type of person & want to put in maximum effort doing xyz & check it off the list. But I do need to focus on it being a process.

Yes, this is my only thread open right now. Thank you again for you honest advice from your experiences. I really do appreciate it.

[hopeOK]

Camping this weekend with family.

Everything is going well. I haven't been consumed w/ worry for days. H & I getting along well... Bob of us in good spirits.

We're setting up our tent. I hear his phone ding the fb messenger ding. I tell him. He looks at its then he says nothing. A minute later I ask. He tells me a girls name who he works with.

This particular girl I know he had been friends w/ on fb in the past. I know he has had conversations w/ her (saw her number a few times on our phone bill when h thought I did my have access. I saw that he searched for her name like 6 times on fb all in one day.

So he tells me she is thanking him for helping her out w/ something at work. I asked him if they didn't talk to each other on the phone. He said no. A few minutes later I asked again in a different way & he said not that he remembered. I then told him I'd found her number on the phone bill. He didn't say anything but later when I walked by his cell phone was out in the grass like he was putting it out there for me to look at. I walked on by.

Frankly I am a little exasperated... I feel worn out with this ... Why is he having fb conversations w/ someone he is not even fb friends w/ & lying to me about having phone conversations w/ her. After he has cheated on me w/ a co-worker. Seems like some unhealthy boundaries to me... Am I wrong?

How to spend the rest of the weekend... I do not know.

[Vapo]

Honey,

please STFU. Please! You are on a direct course for a crash of an epic proportions. You are sabotaging yourself. GET THAT!!!

Your anger and resetment are getting the better of you. Now is the time to put that anger aside, it almost looks like you are finding excuses to self destruct.

How to spend te rest of the weekend? Act as if... Act as if everything is ok. Show him that YOU are the BETTER option. Enjoy yourself, smile, laugh, love...