Let's All Be Like Coffee

[V2pt0]

Thanks, J. It is just so easy to start feeling down on myself. I have so many regrets and remorse for my part. I just feel so hurt that after 14 years together that he does not see anything in me worth fighting for. Part of me is still hoping fir a Hollywood ending where my H at the last minute decides to fight for me and our H. I need to let it go.

I will keep on growing and being the best version of me as possible. I know I have read a number of other threads where others seem to see filing for D or giving up as a reason to stop the LBS' personal growth. I think it could not be further from the truth. I don't plan to stopping working on me just because I filed. That would mean I was doing this all for my M and H and that is not the case. If anything, filing adds more incentive and pressure to work at BT2.0 even harder.

[Zues126]

Part of me is still hoping fir a Hollywood ending where my H at the last minute decides to fight for me and our H. I need to let it go.

We all get it BT. I felt this way for the first three months for sure, and then after that it's been a slow acceptance. Shoot, even still it can be hard to believe because it just looks so stupid we can't believe we're really throwing it away. It's like, I get that you've been telling me this for a year, and that we're filing, and mediating, but it looks so stupid to us that we can't believe someone else could look at this and come to such a destructive conclusion.

The bad news BT is this is a LONG road. IC told me 3-5 years. Oof. It does get easier though, particularly when you're making good decisions for yourself along the way.

Hang in.

[V2pt0]

Meanwhile I've been getting text messages from STBX, they are just fatiguing. This is not an exaggeration- in the last year if you totaled the sum of all of her communication with me in text/email it is entirely negative and critical.

Yeah, I am sure my H feels the same way. Though in my defense, they have all related discoveries related to A.

Obviously I failed to do that in the ways she needed, and obviously I didn't leave her despite our problems. The point is this woman has criticized me to a point that I have had to mentally, spiritually, emotionally, and physically close her off from me in every way to protect myself.

Did you do this pre or post BD? How did you tell her this was hurting you? I realize now that my H and I both had a problem with emotional dishonesty for a long time in our M. I think neither of us really spoke our true feelings out of fear of rejection/vulnerability. That is a must in a healty M. I think I need to learn to be vulnerable without the other person necessarily "earning it" first.

BT, I think you've done a great job finding ways to be positive more and more of the time, even at a time when finding something to be positive about can be like trying to find an Alligator in Minnesota. But no matter how bad your WAH is treating you, and walking out on the M is hard to top, when you can manage through the pain, keep quiet when there's nothing positive to say, and still find a way to say a few good words when there is something good to say (instead of withholding them because he doesn't deserve them until he does much more)...that is a big win for you. Your heart will feel lighter, and I think the men in your life will light up.

In the meantime BT, I'd like to know more about what you're saying your PD is. Are you saying you're afraid of rejection and avoidant? How has this played out? What would you do differently or what are you trying to do differently?

I am trying to stay positive. Sometimes, like this past weekend it is super hard.

Yes, I am afraid of rejection big time. One of my biggest faults is not saying what I am truly thinking because I feel it is wrong or the other person will love me less because of how I feel, especially if I am angry with them. The problem is that this either builds into resentment or I finally explode and it all comes out in a very hurtful and unconstructive way. I guess worry that people will see me as broken, so I avoid my feelings and confrontation. I am the person that goes through things a dozen times in my head before I say it outloud. I was even this was at work until about 5 years ago. When I stopped, I received 3 big promotions in a row. Much higher stakes with love and harder to change. Since DB, I have been much more open than I ever have with H about my feelings, but not just him. Also with my mom, colleagues, and friends.

[V2pt0]

Has anybody on here had any personal experience or know anyone who has gone through discernment counseling? Thoughts??

I found a few people in my area that specialize in this. It was developed based out of a study in Minnesota after they found that do many people regretted decision to D and there is not a lot of specialized support for those in "limbo". It is the step to decide what path to take--D, status quo, or intensive MT. I shared with H and he is contemplating going. My expectations are low. The questions are to elicit if the leaning out spouse is really done by asking questions in a way that might get them to reconsider or rethink their position. i.e. I hear you say that you are no longer in love with your spouse. My question is do you want to try to be in love with your spouse again?

[Zues126]

Hey BT.

Did you do this pre or post BD? How did you tell her this was hurting you?

I had pretty much closed off pre-BD...however I closed off the way you'd curl up into a ball to defend yourself. Remember, the last 3 years of our M we were speaking only about 50% of the time. For me I withdrew because it got to the point I couldn't engage with her without feeling like I got cut to ribbons.

Now, at this point it wasn't that she was verbally critical (that came post BD). It just seemed that I didn't get a voice. Often I felt I wasn't even there. It was her and the kids, I was just the guy that she had to put up with to have the bills paid.

When I tried to communicate with her I felt completely unheard or dismissed. And that was very hard for me. So I just gave up. I suppose a lot like a WAS would feel they tried for years to get through to their spouse. I wrote heartfelt letters. I pleaded. Begged. Ranted occasionally. Explained. Finally I was just defeated. Each time I opened up I hoped she would hear me, and maybe listen to what I was saying. And I know she tried at times, and the tragedy is that there were times when I felt she got it and I truly felt more loved than ever before. But it was like she just couldn't understand how it felt for me, or who I was, or what I needed, and there was just too much disconnect. And then I'd end up feeling completely rejected, because the person I loved the most either misunderstood me or didn't care for me.

To do it over again I would've done some things differently. I would have tried to be more patient and accepting of her. If the M was awful for me, I now think I should've just sucked it up, taken it on the chin that my W didn't have the skills to be a good partner, prayed for strength to accept a poor M and to let go of my resentment, and focused on what I could do myself- continue to be a loving H and good father. So what if the M isn't satisfying to me? I should've done a better job on my half, and maybe after a number of years she would've come around had I been a better H, and if not maybe I would've found joy in at least doing my part well, and having someone to love and honor.

This is a big test to me when it comes to 'am I ready to be in a new R': How would I be able to handle it if my next R was as bad as the last? We can tell ourselves stories about how much we've grown, and hope that our growth will unlock the keys to a better R in the future...but to me the test of growth would be if I could've handled that affectionless, sexless, intamacyless, romanceless, and partnerless experience we called an M- and NOT withdrawn or grown resentful. I'm still not sure if I could handle that if you put me back there.

To answer your question from my other thread- I put too much weight into what STBX thought of me. It was like I didn't approve of myself, and I was trying to use her love to make up for that. But it was a bottomless hole that she couldn't fill, and I thought it was her fault for not loving me enough to fill it, and that she was responsible for my pain because if she cared she wouldn't let me hurt that way.

So I had some legitimate reasons to feel dismissed and diminished...at the same time I was too needy, and I think she got to the point she felt she could never meet my needs (which was true in some ways because she couldn't fill the hole in my heart) and so she just started dismissing everything I was saying as 'more whining', even when much of it was genuine and legitimate. To play out the cycle it went "Z doesn't think he's good enough and wants STBX to love him to prove him wrong, but Z is terrified that STBX won't think he's good enough either, so Z becomes needy and demanding wanting constant assurance from STBX that she approves of him, so STBX gets tired because it's never enough, then STBX gets tired of caring what Z thinks/wants/needs because she can't win, then Z feels diminished and like he isn't being heard or cared for and this is even harder because it's his worst fear, then he tries communicating that and feels misunderstood and unheard, then he too feels continuously rejected and decides he doesn't care what STBX thinks of him anymore, then they don't talk for months at a time..."

God what a disaster.

Maybe I have grown a bit. I don't think I'd take part in a cycle like that again. I do love myself now. I don't believe I'm a bottomless pit. And I think I could separate my happiness from my marriage, I think I could let go of my expectations now that I'm not as needy, and could serve my partner better and longer without the same levels of resentment and despair.

PS- I think had we stayed M we would've found a way to break out of this cycle. I'm not the kind of guy that gives up, and I think given time we could've gotten through this. I guess we may not get to find out the answer to that one.

[Elly4]

BT, I think one of my H's and mine biggest faults is that in order to avoid conflict, rejection, hurting the other person emotionally we never fought in the years we were together. Disagreements are important in a relationship, I now realize, but maybe too late. Years of suppressing our feelings was a disaster waiting to happen.

Would be great to invent a time machine.

E

[V2pt0]

Since summer has unofficially ended with Labor Day, I thought I should wrap up my summer goals and start on some new ones for fall.

Recap of summer goals......

-- Lose an additional 18 lbs by end of summer. I have already lost around 25.
Lost another 5, so only 13 more to go!

Ok, well stayed relatively flat at 30 lbs list since BD. This goal will get carried over to the fall list. Even though I did not lose the additional 13 lbs, I have maintained my exercise all summer with only a few breaks.

-- Take do a creative class-art, graphic design, photography, etc.
Done! Took a jewelry making class on Sunday.

Also, signed up for 6 week colored pencil class for the fall. The real big success is that I applied for a board position with our city culture and arts committee and was elected to the position!!

-- Make some new friends and try some new Meetup groups.
Took a larger leap and created my own. First Meetup tonight with 7 coming. Around 30 have joined.


I have been doing more things with fellow bootcampers and my Meetup group has continued on. There are about 50 in my group and I schedule something once a month.

-- Work on figuring out next career move. I am in a bit of a transition spot.

For some reason, I am not making progress here. I think with everything going on this is a bit too daunting and maybe having something stable in my life is a good thing.

-- Get out and enjoy the summer with some weekend trips with friends.
Have had a number of outings with friends and am going hiking and fishing in Wyoming with parents, brother and dog in another week. Have Wipeout race in August. Possible trip to local mountains.

Overall, even considering what transpired with H, I feel that my summer was a success on many other fronts. I did get out and enjoy spending time with friends and family. Given the enormity of the loss of my M, it could have been much worse had I not worked on me.

Going to do some reflecting on fall goals over the weekend and post early next week.

[asitis]

Great job! I've never seen someone accomplish all their goals, unless they set the bar too low.

So, phase 1 is done. Does the next phase elevate the attention you give to the career issue? Maybe in addition to goals, you think about ranking the priorities, and also amount of effort each will take to accomplish in your estimation, knowing your strengths & weaknesses. I suspect even if you kept the same goals, the priorities have shifted given what you accomplished or didn't in the previous phase.

[JulieH]

Congratulations! Its so easy to wallow in depression, and you most certainly took action. Your independence and ambition is quite impressive. You should be proud. I still have to get to that point and enjoy reading your posts for insight and inspiration.

[Elly4]

BT, this is great! I love that you went back and reflected on the goals for yourself and let us view that thinking!

Can't wait to see your post next week!

E