Thank you Vanilla! I appreciate your thoughts and kindness.
I spoke to my D today and she said she was going to wait until her dad contacted her to speak to him again. I told her that I loved her and that I would say a prayer for her. But you are right, it is their R and they need to discuss it.
I saw a post you wrote on Zelda's page regarding forgiveness. I believe you provided the name of a book you had read about forgiveness. Would you be willing to share that again? I'm having some difficulty with the concept of forgiveness and thought what you wrote to Zelda was interesting.
Start with Deborah Schermans article in Psycology today, why you don't always have to forgive. This wonderful writer is a criminal profiler, the real deal so involved with the survivors and relatives of crime.
The book is Jeanne Safer: Forgive and Not Forgive. It's out of print and available in Kindle version.I love this book and as the spouse of a compulsive gambler and being a participant in Gamanon I was looking for a philosophy on forgiving that I can live with and advise others it's ok not to forgive, I often hear some terrible things in 12 steps and others feel guilty for not forgiving, which re victimises the survivor, sod that!
It's up to each to manage their journey and sometimes forgiveness requires remorse and atonement.
Other books to consider are People of the Lie by Scott Peck, which is a book about ordinary evil. Then there is Mans Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl which is about the best of human spirit.
Hope this helps.
Exactly what is it about forgiving that troubles you?
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 09/03/1508:21 PM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
If I was your daughter and you meant to support, it would show itself as questions about the young man, interest in them, normal business as usual conversations between the two of you, no big deal, all the little ways a mother can be happy for her daughter.
Although not genetic, I think attitudes of feeling too responsible for other people's reactions can be passed down. So can good mental health, so possibly reinforce that her father's feelings are his own. And perhaps to say that you don't agree with his tactic of threatening emotional withdrawal from her life. I don't think she should feel or imagine that is a fair choice she should be presented with.
Thank you for reading up on me. I write a lot and it's a bit to wade through, I'm sure.
Good luck to you, keep us posted (get it? I love puns.)
Last edited by Zelda09; 09/03/1509:20 PM.
Mid 30's Psych-abusive M with violent tantrums from XH D 9/15; NC forever on
Thank you so much for all of the suggested reading above. I appreciate it. I think you hit the nail on the head when you say that there are things that you feel you cannot forgive but if you don't you feel guilty. In my R with my H and also with my father there are things that I just don't think I can forgive. And I want to understand how I can be ok with that. I don't want to justify why I'm not going to forgive, I want to understand it. Not sure if that makes sense.
Sometimes I feel that I have been manipulated and taken advantage of because I am not strong enough, feel guilty and am too forgiving. I want to learn to be strong and forgiving but not stupid. I haven't had much guidance in the area of forgiveness. I liked the way you presented the concept of forgiveness to Zelda.
Zelda,
Thank you for your suggestions for talking to my D. We have had the very discussion you mentioned above. And I totally agree with you that attitudes can be picked up through relationships and are not necessarily genetic. And also that mental health is so important. I am trying to be a " regular" mom and ask the kind of questions you presented above. I told my D that I will not interfere in her R with her dad but I did not agree with his opinion regarding who she could chose to be with. I also told her that I would support whatever she decided was best for her.
We both know that her dad is going through a very difficult emotional time and is not really acting like his old self. We have also discussed that there is a possibility that he may not be his old self for a long time.
Thank you both again for visiting my thread. I will continue to post and try to keep up with yours.
I would add that predicting the future on something as profound as forgiveness isn't really all that useful. The point that right now you can't imagine forgiving. Perfectly normal in you sitch. So,just allow yourself to embrace that right now is not the time for forgiveness,and don't beat yourself up with the implication in your post that you are failing and should be able to forgive.
And, remember that forgiveness is often mostly for you, and not so much for the other person.
Me: 50 W:43 S6, S3 M: 12 yrs. T: 17 M is bad & Not happy Bomb Mar '14 S 5 Feb '15 D Bomb 13 Apr '15 (but "no hurry") DB Coach May '15 Wants proceed on D Aug '15 Starting 1-on-1 negotiations Sept '15
My philosophy is that it's isn't my job to forgive, I am responsible for me only. Forgiveness is from the higher spirit to the one requiring it. All they have to do is ask, ask and you shall be forgiven. It is for us to ask, do I need to be forgiven, is my weakness the tempatation for the other. Was my lack of boundaries making life difficult for WH and my life more of a struggle? So I learn it would be best if I developed reasonable boundaries, detachment, and let go of WH allowing him to be who is, to relate to his higher power.
Love, forgiveness, connection and letting go are all a choice, the choice is not for self, it is for self to be a channel. A channel for change, to allow the gift of reason, the gift of knowledge. Once we know, realise, we can no longer be blind.
I believe this is as it is, it is my gift to WH to be the channel for forgiveness, the bridge for the higher power when and if he asks for this. He may never seek his soul, may never reflect from his own core. That does not matter, the higher power will do as it needs.
I have let go of the need to forgive, it is my choice to ask for myself. Long ago I decide to channel my higher power, that was the only choice I needed.
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 09/05/1504:28 AM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Asitis thank you for your post. I have read many of your posts to others on this board. Your advice contains so much thought and experience.
I agree with you and have read that forgiveness is really for me and not for the other person. I believe my H could care less if I forgive him or not and has certainly never asked for forgiveness. I don't think he thinks there is any reason to ask for it. Thus, where we are today- not together. So I guess when you can get to that place of forgiveness it will probably be easier for you to move forward with your life even if it means moving forward alone.
V,
thank you. I am trying to get to that place where I set reasonable boundaries, detach and allow my H to be who he is and allow him to have his own relationship with his higher power. It has been hard. And perhaps it's really my relationship with my higher power that needs to be developed and it's me who has to ask for forgiveness. I'm still struggling with that.
I have really been struggling and feeling lost these past few weeks. Just when I thought I was starting to feel like I was getting stronger, I have a relapse. I guess like everyone else it's a process.
I know I have a lot to learn and reading others stories certainly shows me I am not alone and not totally at fault. still swimming through my own story trying to sort out my responsibility for what happened.
Thank you both again for sharing your thoughts with me.
Gr8ful, just started following this thread...I need to find your other! The things you share about your H sound so much like mine. I'm beginning to realize just to what extent he has manipulated and controlled me over the years. Where did my spine go?!? I dislike this situation, but am finding myself very surprisingly happy about being fully AWARE...for the first time in decades...wow.
I am so proud of you for your unwavering support of your daughter. Way to go, Mom!
